nikonians

Even though we ARE Nikon lovers,we are NOT affiliated with Nikon Corp. in any way.

| |
Go to a  "printer friendly" view of this message which allow an easy print Printer-friendly copy Go to the page which allows you to send this topic link and a message to a friend Email this topic to a friend
Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR VISION - BY SPECIALTY Wildlife (Public) topic #148179
View in linear mode

Subject: "Confused" Previous topic | Next topic
jfitzg14 Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2012Sun 25-Nov-12 01:18 AM
131 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
"Confused"


US
          

I am a new photographer. I am confused. I shoot a lot in the morning and the light is not always so good. I read articles and listen to people on this site, but I just can't figure out how to get my shutter speed high enough without raising my ISO too high.. I am using the 300mm 2.8 with teleconverters. I am now down to th 1.4. Even at 800 ISO I am still only at 1/125 in some cases. I use a monopod or hand hold. The result is not good. Is there another trick or method I am missing? I don't want to go to auto ISO. I want to try and learn the basics. I know this is probably very basic and rudimentary for this site. I have a lot of enthusiasm with very little skill at this point.. I could use some help.. Thanks in Advance.

I

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Confused
LMMiller9 Silver Member
25th Nov 2012
1
Reply message RE: Confused
DigitalDarrell Team Member Founding Member of the Nikonians writer Guild. Author of most of the NikoniansPress books. Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
25th Nov 2012
2
Reply message RE: Confused
Bump57 Silver Member Awarded for his high skill level in Landscape and Nature Photography and willingness to share his learning experiences to help others. Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
25th Nov 2012
3
Reply message RE: Confused
jamesvoortman Silver Member
25th Nov 2012
4
     Reply message RE: Confused
AreBee
25th Nov 2012
6
Reply message RE: Confused
AreBee
25th Nov 2012
5
Reply message RE: Confused
ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community
25th Nov 2012
7
Reply message RE: Confused
dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community
25th Nov 2012
8
Reply message RE: Confused
Scotty45 Silver Member
26th Nov 2012
9

LMMiller9 Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2005Sun 25-Nov-12 01:43 AM
1115 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#1. "RE: Confused"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun 25-Nov-12 02:00 AM by LMMiller9

Potomac, US
          

Not sure what your subject is, but what you probably should try is a tripod rather than a monopod. Particularly since you are shooting with the 300mm lens plus a teleconverter. That dramatically increases the effect of any motion on either end (the subject or the camera).

You basically have four variables at play: the motion of the camera or subject, ISO, shutter speed, and aperture setting. That's about it.

I would not hesitate to go above ISO 800. Try shooting at ISO 3200 and that will allow you to shoot faster, or with smaller aperture. The D800 does very well at higher ISO settings.

Experiment, experiment and experiment.

Larry Miller, Potomac, MD
DF/D800
http://www.pbase.com/lmmiller9
http://lmmillerphotography.smugmug.com/

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DigitalDarrell Team Member Founding Member of the Nikonians writer Guild. Author of most of the NikoniansPress books. Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Charter MemberSun 25-Nov-12 01:43 AM
5954 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#2. "RE: Confused"
In response to Reply # 0


Knoxville, US
          

Joe,

When light it too low, such as in the dawn or dusk hours, you simply cannot handhold a camera and get a sharp picture without raising the ISO to very high levels.

A monopod will help, but with a 300mm lens and a teleconverter, even the smallest of vibrations is highly magnified. In those circumstances you should have your camera/lens on a solid tripod and be using mirror up shutter release. Only then will you get usable images.




Digital Darrell

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Bump57 Silver Member Awarded for his high skill level in Landscape and Nature Photography and willingness to share his learning experiences to help others. Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 01st Apr 2007Sun 25-Nov-12 05:57 AM
6606 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#3. "RE: Confused"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

Hi Joe,

You have excellent gear so no problem there. What you mention is that you are shooting at 1/125 and ISO 800 in some cases. What you don't mention is what aperture you are shooting at. Are you shooting wide open? With the 1.4 that would be f4. Or are you shooting with the lens stepped down some like f8. If at f8 you could open up the lens some to reduce the ISO and keep your shutter speeds up. Can you post some examples of the problem images you have? That would help bunches to give better answers.

.
.



Scott Martin Sternberg

Scotts Fine Art

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
jamesvoortman Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Sep 2004Sun 25-Nov-12 07:47 AM
1217 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#4. "RE: Confused"
In response to Reply # 3
Sun 25-Nov-12 08:03 AM by jamesvoortman

Durban, ZA
          

"results are not good" this is not specific. Would be helpful if you post a sample for us to analyse.

Some tips for low light.
Blur in the image can be due to lens shake or subject movement. higher shutter speed is the answer to both. If the lens has VR it will help a lot for camera/lens shake but not for subject movement.

Higher SS means less light comes in so to compensate, you need more sensitivity (ISO) and a larger aperture. you have an excellent lens so no problem to shoot it wide open at f2.8. Largest aperture will be f4 if a 1,4 TC is used and 5.6 if a 2.0 TC is used. If SS is still too slow than ramp up the ISO. the D800 can give acceptable noise up to about 2500 ISO. Even higher settings can be used but then some noise reduction in post processing may be needed.

Camera settings for low light shooting :
1) High ISO NR = ON. you can also adjust whether a strong or weak action is required.
2) Set Auto ISO with practical limits. For long shots, handheld with poor light, Auto ISO is a good tool. Set min shutter speed to auto and adjust this to +1 or +2 response. If you choose normal, the camera adjusts SS to 1/ Focal Length which may not be fast enough. set max allowable ISO to 2500 or 3200. when using Auto ISO in this way, you should be in A (aperture priority) mode so you can set and lock the required aperture.
3) if your subject is close enough - do you have any possibility of using flash. SB910 has a useful range of about 20 metres and even more if you fit a range extender. you can also mount it off-camera, closer to the target area and then shoot from further away. The flash can also give a longer range focus assist beam than the camera if you are struggling to get focus.
4) VR = ON if using a monopod or handheld. Use "active" setting if your subject requires panning
5) Shooting with long lens, early, therefore I assume a moving subject, animal, avian or human. Use centre weighted exposure control. for a moving subject, use AF-C 9 point or 21 point dynamic AF. In your D800 manual it explains which sensors are used, especially when using TC's. for a static subject, try AF-S single point. the centre sensor is the most sensitive.

I don't understand the reluctance to use higher ISO. This is the major advantage that we have now compared to the film days.

Good luck

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
AreBee Registered since 27th Apr 2008Sun 25-Nov-12 12:24 PM
531 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: Confused"
In response to Reply # 4


Inverness, UK
          

James,

>Blur in the image can be due to lens shake or subject movement. higher shutter speed is the answer to both.<

Higher shutter speed is only one answer to lens shake. A tripod is another.

>Higher SS means less light comes in so to compensate, you need more sensitivity (ISO) and a larger aperture. you have an excellent lens so no problem to shoot it wide open at f2.8.<

Except that a higher ISO may return more noise, and f/2.8 may return less depth of field, than the photographer is willing to accept. A tripod imposes no such penalties on the photographer.

>the D800 can give acceptable noise up to about 2500 ISO.<

Acceptable to whom? Certainly not to me.

>I don't understand the reluctance to use higher ISO.<

It likely stems from the desire to maximise image quality.

Rob
www.robbuckle.co.uk

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

AreBee Registered since 27th Apr 2008Sun 25-Nov-12 12:07 PM
531 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#5. "RE: Confused"
In response to Reply # 0


Inverness, UK
          

Joe,

>...I just can't figure out...<

On the contrary: you clearly know what you are doing enough to have adjusted all the camera parameters that have the potential to help you achieve a faster shutter speed. Take heart from that.

The only thing you haven't appreciated is that for the time that you are shooting at, the light is so low in brightness that, as you have discovered, nothing you do can make up for it. The obvious solution, as others have pointed out, is a tripod.

With your camera on a tripod you can:

1. Rule out camera shake from your actions. Ideally use Mirror Up and trip the shutter with a remote release. If you do not have the latter, you can use the camera timer;

2. Select the lens aperture that returns the depth of field you desire without being forced to select the maximum aperture in order to increase shutter speed;

3. Select base ISO (or lower, ideally) in order to return effectively noise free images, instead of being forced to select a larger ISO value in order to increase shutter speed;

Rob
www.robbuckle.co.uk

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Sun 25-Nov-12 01:44 PM
8906 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#7. "RE: Confused"
In response to Reply # 0


Atlanta, US
          

Joe - stick with the good questions. It will payoff.

I tend to be in the party that places a high priority on adequate shutter speed. You might have sharp images at 1/500 second, but most images look a lot sharper at 1/1000 or so. Slower than that range, a tripod won't do much good with twitchy subjects - it helps but does not make up for fast subject movement. If you are handholding or using a monopod, your shutter speeds will need to be maintained at 1/800 or more for a high percentage of keepers.

One of the other factors to keep in mind is the direction of the light. In low, even light, contrast is minimized and you may not have the detail. What you look for is a little more direction in the light. If the light is directly at your back, it's just as bad since the hard light and the angle remove all contrast. What you are looking for is to be positioned with light at 30-60 degrees angling across your subject. This balances contrast and detail.

When you are looking at great bird photos, look at the angle of the photographer to the light. You'll get some exceptions, but the detail really stands out at an angle.

Also keep in mind that apparent detail depends on the bird a bit. You want the eye to be sharp and a catchlight in the eye. Either sun or flash can be used to create a catchlight. For most images - those two details are minimum requirements.

Many birds have very soft feathers that show little detail. You'll need to learn when the teleconverter prevents those details from being seen. A teleconverter is not a free lunch - you are losing some of the native sharpness of your 300 f/2.8 lens. The only question is where that loss is noticed.


Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
My Gallery
Workshops

Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Sun 25-Nov-12 07:14 PM
11742 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#8. "RE: Confused"
In response to Reply # 0


Lowden, US
          

Shooting wildlife in low light forces you to make compromises as pointed out by Rob above.

Slow shutter speeds = more shot shots
High ISO = noise & compromised detail (especially with feathers and fur)
Tripod = reduced mobility and a tripod does not help with subject motion.
Shooting Wide Open = shallow depth of field (I seldom find this a problem and shoot wide open a lot)

Sometimes you just have to accept one or more of these possible problems to get any shot at all.

I also err on the side of faster shutter speeds and will shoot wide open and higher ISO’s. What is acceptable as fare as noise from high ISO depends on the end use of the image. With the un-cropped (or very lightly cropped) D300 image shot at ISO-1600 you can probably make a 10inx15in print but if you try to go up to 16inx24in you will probably run into issues with noise.

One thing that you can try when you just cannot get higher shutter speed is to shoot in CH mode in bursts of 3 -4 shots at a time. This will increase the chance of catching you subject when they are perfectly still in one of the frames.

Look around at the best shots posted here and you will see that very few of them are shot in really low light. Dull flat light often creates dull flat images (especially with birds) with poor color. Sometimes you just have to know when not to take the shot. If you get to the point where your aperture is wide open and you have reached your high ISO limit and your shutter speed is still too low then it is probably time to pack it in until the light is better.


Stick with it and keep asking questions, we were all beginners struggling with the same issues and now we are here to help.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
Nikonians Photo Contest Director

Nikonians membership -
"My most important photographic investment, after the camera"

My Nikonians Gallery | SummersPhotoGraphic.com | My Crated Gallery
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Showcase your best work in any of our 7 Monthly Nikonians Photo contests.


Wildlife | Landscape | Macro | Sports | Travel | Online Assignments | Best of Nikonians 2014

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Scotty45 Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Mar 2010Mon 26-Nov-12 04:48 AM
1376 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#9. "RE: Confused"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon 26-Nov-12 07:15 AM by Scotty45

Swan Reach.Vic., AU
          

Hi Joe. Welcome to the world of the confused. Luckily you are in the right place to get the right advice. dm1dave has given me some very sound advice in the past, & I agree with his above reply 100%.
I too, like to shoot early morning with my D300s. 300mm F/4D plus a TC-14E II teleconverter. I also use a Monopod with a Wimberley sidekick attached. (I find a tripod too cumbersome to carry when looking for wildlife subjects).
My mode preference is for Shutter Priority (For wildlife), as high as available light will allow. I try to keep the iso below 800 to reduce noise, but noise can be reduced greatly in PP. My main adjustment, (thanks to good Nikonian advice), is exposure compensation. This can be increased up to +5EV.
Have a look at my recent post on this forum 'White-faced Heron' #3. This shot was taken, using the monopod, on a clear, early morning with the sun behind me. I used iso320 & +0.7EV. Now, it may have been just a fluke, but it came out pretty sharp I think.
Another thing I found very helpful was reading the exposure settings advice given by Thom Hogan in his book 'Complete Guide to the Nikon D300 and D300s'. http://www.bythom.com/nikond300guide.htm
(I hope I haven't broken any forum rules by giving Thom a plug. But his book is now my Nikonians bible).
Just keep practicing, & asking for advice Joe. The confusion will get better....Scotty.
PS. Don't forget to look at the D300/D200/D100 forum. There's good reading there as well.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.


'Proper Preparation Prevents Pathetic Performance'.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR VISION - BY SPECIALTY Wildlife (Public) topic #148179 Previous topic | Next topic