Go to a  "printer friendly" view of this message which allow an easy print Printer-friendly copy Go to the page which allows you to send this topic link and a message to a friend Email this topic to a friend
Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Nikon Speedlights & Lighting topic #61297
View in linear mode

Subject: "Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'" Previous topic | Next topic
Shy Talk Registered since 12th Jun 2010Thu 25-Apr-13 10:55 AM
543 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
"Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'"


Port Glasgow, GB
          

Hi Folks

I'm not a regular user of 'flash', but as you all know, there are times when you need it.

On these occasions I just use the pop uf on the body (D300s & D700).

Trouble is, most of my lenses cast a tombstone-like shadow in the foreground when this happens.

I think the little SB-400 is the one for me but my question is, will it still cast that shadow?

Also, what will be the longest (physically- not focal length) lens that's usable with the 400 without a shadow appearing?

MTIA

my webpage is at http://www.scottishops.co.uk

my Nikonians gallery is here. http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/330319

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'
luckyphoto Silver Member
25th Apr 2013
1
Reply message RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'
Luke_Miller Silver Member
25th Apr 2013
2
     Reply message RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'
Shy Talk
25th Apr 2013
3
          Reply message RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'
MEMcD Moderator
25th Apr 2013
5
          Reply message RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'
JETC Silver Member
06th May 2013
10
Reply message RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'
MEMcD Moderator
25th Apr 2013
4
Reply message RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'
Shy Talk
25th Apr 2013
6
     Reply message RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'
MEMcD Moderator
25th Apr 2013
7
Reply message RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'
gkaiseril Gold Member
26th Apr 2013
8
Reply message RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'
gfinlayson Silver Member
04th May 2013
9
Reply message RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'
jrp Administrator
06th May 2013
11
Reply message RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'
JETC Silver Member
07th May 2013
12

luckyphoto Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Dec 2010Thu 25-Apr-13 11:57 AM
743 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#1. "RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'"
In response to Reply # 0


Port Charlotte, US
          

Others can provide more specific information about the SB 400, but I can at least tell you that the shadow is caused by the lens blocking some of the light from the internal flash, That's because the internal flash sits low on the camera. If you use a SB 400, which sits much higher, the lens will not block the light.

Your internal flash is good for 10-12ft or about 3-4M. The SB 400 should extend that to 60ft. or about 20M.

I would suggest you look at the SB700 as an option. The SB 400 is a basic flash and limited with respect to off camera flash capabilities.

Hope that helps.

Larry

"Red is gray and yellow white, but we decide which is right
....and which is an illusion"

Moody Blues - Nights in White Satin

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Luke_Miller Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2006Thu 25-Apr-13 12:17 PM
1474 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#2. "RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'"
In response to Reply # 1


Rural Virginia, US
          

Often it is the lens hood casting the shadow rather than the lens itself. I always remove the hood if using the built in flash.

Going to an external flash is the best option. I second the recommendation of the SB-700 (or the SB-600 if you can find one). A flash that can tilt and swivel permits bounce flash which produces much softer light.

Places We Have Been

www.peppermill-multimedia.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Shy Talk Registered since 12th Jun 2010Thu 25-Apr-13 02:28 PM
543 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#3. "RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'"
In response to Reply # 2


Port Glasgow, GB
          

I don't use hoods much. but with the 16-35VR there's a dreadful shadow even without the hood. Of course, at 16mm it's at its most pronounced.

I know WHY it happens, but I dont want to buy a flash and then find it STILL happens!

I heard the SB-400 is litle better than the pop-up, power-wise. Is this correct?

I don't mind buying a SB-600. Probably ger a second hand one on ebay as I don't expect to use it often.

I'll need to see in what way a SB-700 differs....

my webpage is at http://www.scottishops.co.uk

my Nikonians gallery is here. http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/330319

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007Thu 25-Apr-13 02:54 PM
25659 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#5. "RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'"
In response to Reply # 3


US
          

Hi Simon,

>I don't use hoods much. but with the 16-35VR there's a
>dreadful shadow even without the hood. Of course, at 16mm it's
>at its most pronounced.

While the 16-35mm is not listed in the D700 Users Manual (If I remember correctly it was introduced after the D700) though the 17-35mm the minimum focal length is listed at 28mm with a minimum range of 1m.

>I know WHY it happens, but I dont want to buy a flash and then
>find it STILL happens!

Understood!

>I heard the SB-400 is litle better than the pop-up,
>power-wise. Is this correct?

Yes!

>I don't mind buying a SB-600. Probably ger a second hand one
>on ebay as I don't expect to use it often.
>
>I'll need to see in what way a SB-700 differs....

The SB-700 has Commander mode built-in, the SB-600 does not have Commander mode. It also automatically adjusts the coverage from FX to DX when using a DX body to maximize efficiency.
Both can be used as wireless remotes controlled by the built-in Speedlights that have Commander mode.

Best Regards,
Marty

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
JETC Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2013Mon 06-May-13 02:19 PM
36 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#10. "RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'"
In response to Reply # 3


US
          

Since after moving to the D600 and coupled it with larger lenses (ie. 16-35mm), the SB-400 flash w/ diffuser couldn't cut it any longer. Even as fill flash w/ diffuser, the SB-400 still gave harsh lighting with the dreaded flash shadowing. SB-400 is very limited to what you can do with it being low powered and lighting angle can be only moved upward in few degree segments up to 90deg ceiling bounce shot.

I have seen many examples of great shots leveraging flash lighting and would like to make some shots like those. I mainly used the SB-400 as a fill flash but now, I went ahead and bought a more advanced third party flash for cost perspective. Unfortunately, Nikon flashes are too expensive for what I currently use flash photography for.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007Thu 25-Apr-13 02:37 PM
25659 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#4. "RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

Hi Simon,

In each camera Users Manual at the end of the Lens Compatibility section under Built-in Flash the focal length limitations for various lenses to prevent shadows (without the Lens Hood).

I would recommend adding a Nikon SB-700 or SB-600 to your kit instead of the SB-400.
The SB-400 is only slightly more powerful than the built-in Speedlight, it can only tilt vertically for bounce and since it has a very low profile it is more likely to cause Red-Eye than the higher profile of an SB-700 or SB-600. In addition the SB-400 is limited to on camera use only.
in addition to the extra power, range, and the ability to tilt and rotate for muchmore control of bounce flash, the SB-600 and SB-700 can be used as i-TTL wireless remotes.

Best Regards,
Marty

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Shy Talk Registered since 12th Jun 2010Thu 25-Apr-13 07:39 PM
543 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'"
In response to Reply # 4


Port Glasgow, GB
          

Got it Marty. Thanks!

I think I'll get a SB-600 or 700 depending on how the bidding goes.

I take it Commander mode is some sort of radio link twixt camera & Flash? Dont bother replying- I'll find out

These two must be pretty powerful units- at least if the price is anything to go by!

Thanks for replying.

Good luck and enjoy your Nikons!

my webpage is at http://www.scottishops.co.uk

my Nikonians gallery is here. http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/330319

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007Thu 25-Apr-13 09:33 PM
25659 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#7. "RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'"
In response to Reply # 6


US
          

Hi Simon,

>I think I'll get a SB-600 or 700 depending on how the bidding
>goes.

Good Luck!

>I take it Commander mode is some sort of radio link twixt
>camera & Flash? Dont bother replying- I'll find out

In Commander mode the Commander uses light (flashes) pulses to instruct the remote Speedlights to fire at the appropriate power level before the shutter opens.
Then it fires a triggering flash to fire the remotes in sync with the shutter.

>These two must be pretty powerful units- at least if the price
>is anything to go by!

Both have about 1 full stop more power than the SB-400 and about 2 full stops more if when the flash head is at the maximum zoom position.

>Good luck and enjoy your Nikons!

Thank you.
I always do!

Best Regards,
Marty

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Fri 26-Apr-13 04:26 PM
6739 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#8. "RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'"
In response to Reply # 0


Chicago, US
          

You need to raise the flash tube higher either by buying a taller flash unit or getting a flash bracket and an SC17/28/29 or similar cord to extend the electrical contacts of the hot shoe. Raising the flash tube above will raise the FOV of the flash to be above the lens barrel or lens hood.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

gfinlayson Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Jan 2011Sat 04-May-13 10:53 PM
243 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#9. "RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat 04-May-13 10:55 PM by gfinlayson

Maidenhead, GB
          

The best thing you can do is get your flash off the camera, either by using an external speedlite controlled via CLS from the on-camera flash, by using a TTL cord, or even using a cheap manual flash optically triggered by the on-board flash.

Off-camera flash will eliminate the lens/lens hood shadow, give better control over shadows an avoid red-eye when photographing people.

If you're not well versed in flash use, I thoroughly recommend David Hobby\'s site, especially Lighting 101

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberMon 06-May-13 11:49 PM
34286 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#11. "RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 07-May-13 12:14 AM by jrp

San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

You have been replied to already. I just would like to emphasize some things that may have not been explained completely.

The best way to avoid the cast shadow to be visible in your pictures is:

a) Elevate your flash directly above your camera (not to a side), with a flash bracket. That eliminates the shadow problem under most circumstances becasue the shadow will be under the subject.

b) Use a flash diffuser on the flash to further improve the light and the strength of the shadows if any.

c) When possible, use indirect light, that is, not pointing the flash directly to your subject. Either by bouncing it from the ceiling, from a wall or from a reflector.

d) Also, remove your subjects away from a too close wall.

Below a no-shadows portrait with a Nikon D700, handheld and SB-800 on the hotshoe, with GaryFong Universal flash diffuser, upwards into the ceiling:



Other methods include shooting through a softbox, or through a translucent reflector or bounced from an umbrella.

What flash to use is the other subtopic. Like others have already mentioned, I would recommend at least a SB-700 for its additional functions over those of the SB-400.

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy and the product catalog of the Photo Pro Shop

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
JETC Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2013Tue 07-May-13 03:33 PM
36 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#12. "RE: Best flash to avoid 'Flash Shadow'"
In response to Reply # 11


US
          

jrp,

Wonderful shot! As someone who is recently trying to get out of novice flash photography, those are much appreciated tips!

-John

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Nikon Speedlights & Lighting topic #61297 Previous topic | Next topic


Take the Nikonians Tour and learn more about being a Nikonian Wiki /FAQ /Help Listen to our MP3 photography radio channels Find anything on Nikon and imaging technology - fast!

Copyright © Nikonians 2000, 2014
All Rights Reserved

Nikonians®, NikoScope® and NikoniansAcademy™ are trademarks owned by Nikonians.org.
Nikon®, Nikonos® and Nikkor® are registered trademarks of Nikon Corporation.