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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Nikon Speedlights & Lighting topic #61044
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Subject: "Remote camera, Speed lights " Previous topic | Next topic
mahasuresh Registered since 03rd Jan 2008Wed 13-Mar-13 03:16 AM
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"Remote camera, Speed lights "


Plano, US
          

I am a photographer at an event and i cannot afford a second photographer. For the first time i am going to use a Remote camera to provide a second POV for shooting the event. Here is my rig

D700, 24-70mm, with a pocketwizard Plus II on camera (channel 1). This will be a main camera i will be using in my hand.

D300s (remote camera), 12-24mm kept at a wide angle from a different angle. Pocketwizard connected to the motor drive of the camera with the N90M3-P wire (pre trigger). Channel 1.

This setup works perfectly. No issues. Now comes the 3rd component. A Flash into the picture and i want to use in Relay mode (channel 2) so that the remote camera and the flash are in sych. This works fine.

But the camera on my hand (main camera) does not capture the remote flash. The camera shutter fires before the flash fires. The remote camera is perfectly fine, since the relay mode and the remote camera are in perfect sych.

Can someone help? Sorry for the very confusing scenario ....

Thanks
Suresh

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Remote camera, Speed lights
HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources.
13th Mar 2013
1
Reply message RE: Remote camera, Speed lights
mahasuresh
14th Mar 2013
3
Reply message RE: Remote camera, Speed lights
MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas
14th Mar 2013
2
Reply message RE: Remote camera, Speed lights
mahasuresh
14th Mar 2013
4
     Reply message RE: Remote camera, Speed lights
MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas
14th Mar 2013
5

HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Charter MemberWed 13-Mar-13 09:18 PM
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#1. "RE: Remote camera, Speed lights "
In response to Reply # 0


Phoenix, US
          

Suresh:

Where is this "third component" flash located, near or on the remote camera? Is it intended to illuminate the subject captured by the remote camera, the main camera, or both?

Is the remote flash firing at all? Your description suggests that it is, but not in sync with the main camera, correct?

Which position do you have the "Pre-Trigger" switch on the remote camera N90M3-P cable in: "Normal", or "Pre-Trigger"? In the "Normal" mode, the camera must first "wake up", which involves some lag time, and the main camera shutter may already be closed when this occurs, which is why the main camera does not "capture" the remote flash. In the "Pre-Trigger" mode, the remote camera stays awake, eliminating the lag time, and it and the remote flash should fire in sync with the main camera.

Another possibility: Is the remote camera set to auto focus, and must it acquire focus before the shutter will fire? If yes, the auto focus time will be added to the wakeup time. If this is the case, you may want to set the remote camera to manual focus to eliminate the auto focus delay.

How many PW Plus II units do you have? Page 8 of the PW Plus II Owner's Manual indicates that three Plus II units are requireed to trigger a remote flash in sync with a remote camera. Is this the configuration you are using?

Tell me a bit more.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

  

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mahasuresh Registered since 03rd Jan 2008Thu 14-Mar-13 11:35 AM
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#3. "RE: Remote camera, Speed lights "
In response to Reply # 1


Plano, US
          

>Suresh:
>
>Where is this "third component" flash located, near
>or on the remote camera? Is it intended to illuminate the
>subject captured by the remote camera, the main camera, or
>both?

The remote flash is going to be away from both camera's and is intended light for both the camera's

>
>Is the remote flash firing at all? Your description suggests
>that it is, but not in sync with the main camera, correct?
>

Remote Flash is firing and in synch with the remote camera (because i am using the relay function as described in the PW Plus II manual). But this flash is not in synch with the main camera in hand.

>Which position do you have the "Pre-Trigger" switch
>on the remote camera N90M3-P cable in: "Normal", or
>"Pre-Trigger"?

Pre-Trigger position. At the normal position the exposure is inconsistent and i have been missing shots as the camera goes to sleep.

In the "Normal" mode, the
>camera must first "wake up", which involves some lag
>time, and the main camera shutter may already be closed when
>this occurs, which is why the main camera does not
>"capture" the remote flash. In the
>"Pre-Trigger" mode, the remote camera stays awake,
>eliminating the lag time, and it and the remote flash should
>fire in sync with the main camera.
>

This is not happening.

>Another possibility: Is the remote camera set to auto focus,
>and must it acquire focus before the shutter will fire? If
>yes, the auto focus time will be added to the wakeup time. If
>this is the case, you may want to set the remote camera to
>manual focus to eliminate the auto focus delay.
>

I dont think so because the main camera is the one which is triggering the remote camera and then the flash.


>How many PW Plus II units do you have? Page 8 of the PW Plus
>II Owner's Manual indicates that three Plus II units are
>requireed to trigger a remote flash in sync with a remote
>camera. Is this the configuration you are using?
>

I have 5 PW Plus II and yes this is the configuration i am using.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions. As always, thanks for your help!


>Tell me a bit more.
>
>Regards,
>
>HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
>Nikonian Team Member
>
> Photography is
>a journey with no conceivable destination.

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MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007Thu 14-Mar-13 12:20 AM
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#2. "RE: Remote camera, Speed lights "
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

Hi Suresh,

Getting multiple cameras to fire in sync with the same set of flash units is more difficult than one would think.

First, I am not sure if it can be done with Plus II's.
If it can be done, both bodies would have to have the same shutter delay or "Lag Time" which is rare even with identical bodies.
The Multimax Transceivers have a Camera Equalization function that can be used to synchronize the shutter of each camera so they can open together and therefore sync with the same set of flash units.

In your situation you can use a Plus II in your hand in Transmit only mode, a Multimax with Pre-Release cord for each camera (1 in Receive mode and the other in Relay mode) and a Plus II for each flash unit. Then use the Test Button on the Plus II to trigger both cameras via the Multimax Transceivers and the Multimax in Relay mode will fire the Plus II(s) attached to the flash units in sync with the cameras.
Good Luck and Enjoy your Nikons!

Best Regards,
Marty

  

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mahasuresh Registered since 03rd Jan 2008Thu 14-Mar-13 11:40 AM
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#4. "RE: Remote camera, Speed lights "
In response to Reply # 2


Plano, US
          

Thanks Marty. First of all, i do not have multi-max and that rules out this option. But that is a very interesting suggestion. Thanks for that.

Secondly, i do not want to take the risk of two remote camera's. One with a preset composition is OK, but a two camera remote setup poses a lot of risk. Also it may look unprofessional for a event photography. I can understand if it is a sports photography. What do you think?

I really appreciate your comments and suggestions. I hope you understand, i really dont want to sound dismissive here.

Thanks again.
Suresh

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MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007Thu 14-Mar-13 11:20 PM
26767 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#5. "RE: Remote camera, Speed lights "
In response to Reply # 4


US
          

Hi Suresh,

>First of all, i do not have multi-max and that
>rules out this option. But that is a very interesting
>suggestion. Thanks for that.

If both of your cameras have the same "Lag Time" it should work with the Plus II's.

>Secondly, i do not want to take the risk of two remote
>camera's. One with a preset composition is OK, but a two
>camera remote setup poses a lot of risk.

Yes. If you are using only two cameras.
While you will have to trigger both cameras with a PW Transceiver to have any chance of both to sync with the same set of lights, both don't have to be set on a tripod. While it would be difficult to do, you should be able to hand hold one camera and still trigger it with the PW. The problem will be focusing since the pre-release cords usually lock the camera controls. I suspect you will have to keep the pre-release switch Off on your hand held camera then focus using the AF-On button before you release the shutter with the Test button on the PW Plus II set to Transmit only.
All of this assumes you have both bodies set in Manual exposure mode and Manual ISO with the remote camera in MF mode pre focused on your subject.
Again if both camera bodies don't have the same shutter delay or Lag Time you will need to use Multimax Transceivers or you will have the same problem; only one body will be in sync with the flash.

If you want to fire the remote camera via the Plus II in your cameras hotshoe you will have to have two sets of flashes ( one set for each camera) or set one camera up to shoot ambient light and the other for flash. You can choose the camera that syncs with the flash units.

>Also it may look
>unprofessional for a event photography. I can understand if it
>is a sports photography. What do you think?

The only thing that is important is the final image or images.
I agree that using multiple remote cameras is much more common in sports photography than event photography but there is no reason that it can't be done for both.

>I really appreciate your comments and suggestions. I hope you
>understand, i really dont want to sound dismissive here.

Yes! I understand perfectly.
No problem.
This is not something that is easy to do.
It can take hours of set up time.

I will try to explain this in another way.
When you use a PW in the hotshoe of your hand held camera to fire a remote camera the RF trigger signal is sent after the shutter has already opened on the camera in your hand so there is no way that it can sync with your flash units that are triggered by the PW in the hotshoe of your remote camera. Therefore the only way to trigger multiple cameras to sync with the same set of lights is to trigger both or all of the cameras with a seporate PW. Again, if the Lag Time of each camera is not the same you will need a MultiMax transceiver to equalize the cameras so both shutters fire in sync with each other and the single set of flash units.
Good Luck and Enjoy your Nikons!

Best Regards,
Marty

  

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