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Subject: "Quick question on the SB600" Previous topic | Next topic
dagoldst Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2012Sat 19-Jan-13 01:03 AM
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"Quick question on the SB600"


Little Rock, US
          

What is the max ISO it will allow when a supporting camera is set to ISO auto? Mine always limits both my D200 and D600 to ISO 400.

Yet, if I turn off ISO auto, I can set to any of the available ISO, and the flash goes along with it...

David

"Sawed that board three times and it is still too short... "

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Quick question on the SB600
Chris Platt Silver Member
19th Jan 2013
1
Reply message RE: Quick question on the SB600
dagoldst Silver Member
19th Jan 2013
3
     Reply message RE: Quick question on the SB600
Chris Platt Silver Member
19th Jan 2013
5
Reply message RE: Quick question on the SB600
Arkayem Moderator
19th Jan 2013
2
Reply message RE: Quick question on the SB600
dagoldst Silver Member
19th Jan 2013
4
Reply message RE: Quick question on the SB600
dagoldst Silver Member
20th Jan 2013
7
     Reply message RE: Quick question on the SB600
Arkayem Moderator
21st Jan 2013
8
          Reply message RE: Quick question on the SB600
dagoldst Silver Member
21st Jan 2013
9
               Reply message RE: Quick question on the SB600
Arkayem Moderator
21st Jan 2013
10
                    Reply message RE: Quick question on the SB600
dagoldst Silver Member
21st Jan 2013
11
                         Reply message RE: Quick question on the SB600
Arkayem Moderator
21st Jan 2013
12
Reply message RE: Quick question on the SB600
aolander Silver Member
19th Jan 2013
6

Chris Platt Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Sep 2012Sat 19-Jan-13 01:58 AM
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#1. "RE: Quick question on the SB600"
In response to Reply # 0


Newburg, US
          

Check the max sensitivity settings on your cameras for Auto ISO mode. They are probably set to 400. The SB600 doesn't limit the max ISO available when in Auto ISO mode.

400 is a good max setting for the D200, but you can set it much higher for the D600.

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dagoldst Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2012Sat 19-Jan-13 03:19 PM
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#3. "RE: Quick question on the SB600"
In response to Reply # 1
Sat 19-Jan-13 03:35 PM by dagoldst

Little Rock, US
          

Nope, both cameras are set to allow their highest settings in auto ISO. Frankly, I seem to remember that this flash used to work at any auto ISO setting, but since it does not now, I was wondering if it has an issue now or if I have finally lost those brain cells on this topic.

David

"Sawed that board three times and it is still too short... "

  

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Chris Platt Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Sep 2012Sat 19-Jan-13 06:11 PM
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#5. "RE: Quick question on the SB600"
In response to Reply # 3


Newburg, US
          

I don't use auto ISO with flash, but I did test it with an SB600 and D7000 (my D200 is on long term loan to a daughter). I had auto ISO maxing out at 3200. In P and A mode, both TTL and TTL BL, the camera went up to ISO 2500. With the lens cap on, it went all the way to 3200. So I think you are remembering correctly.

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberSat 19-Jan-13 02:14 PM
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#2. "RE: Quick question on the SB600"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>What is the max ISO it will allow when a supporting camera is
>set to ISO auto? Mine always limits both my D200 and D600 to
>ISO 400.

It is very important to turn OFF the Auto ISO when using flash. Auto ISO coupled with flash is very unpredictable, and doesn't give consistant results.

For indoor shots where the flash will be primary, I recommend using fixed ISO 400 with the flash in regular TTL mode (NOT TTL-BL). Also, the camera should be in Manual mode set to underexpose the ambient by about two to three stops.

If you increase the ISO when shooting in regular TTL mode, it will increase the ambient contribution, and this will cause overexposure if you turn it up too high.

Also, the SB600 will only work properly up to about ISO 1000. If you go above ISO 1000, the SB600 cannot turn its power low enough for close shots, which results in overexposure.

>Yet, if I turn off ISO auto, I can set to any of the available
>ISO, and the flash goes along with it...

This is the way the Auto ISO system protects you from overexposure. However, it doesn't do a very good job. Again, it is much better to use fixed ISO at 400 for indoor flash primary shots with the camera in Manual set to underexpose the ambient by two to three stops.

I invite you to read my blog articles on flash starting here:
http://nikonclspracticalguide.blogspot.com/2008/01/nikon-flash-two-separate-metering.html

Russ
Retired Professional Photographer
Nikonian Moderator
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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dagoldst Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2012Sat 19-Jan-13 03:35 PM
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#4. "RE: Quick question on the SB600"
In response to Reply # 2


Little Rock, US
          

.
>
>It is very important to turn OFF the Auto ISO when using
>flash. Auto ISO coupled with flash is very unpredictable, and
>doesn't give consistant results.
>

Interesting - I have never had an issue shooting that way - typically I limit the upper ISO range, though on the D600, it's got fantastic high ISO capability and now with the auto function on shutter speed, it picks a shutter speed that is the reciprocal to the focal length, (that's adjustable for preference as well).


>If you increase the ISO when shooting in regular TTL mode, it
>will increase the ambient contribution, and this will cause
>overexposure if you turn it up too high.

Interesting again - When the flash is on-camera, I shoot TTL BL, (no particular reason to be truthful).

>
>Also, the SB600 will only work properly up to about ISO 1000.
>If you go above ISO 1000, the SB600 cannot turn its power low
>enough for close shots, which results in overexposure.

Hmmm, on my D200, I tend to crank up the EV output on the flash and dial back exposure comp on the camera to allow higher shutter speeds at ISO 800 -it seems to expose ok on my images when I go in and look at them in my RAW editor, (LR4 and NX2).

So far on the D600, I am still familarizing myself with with it.

>
>I invite you to read my blog articles on flash starting here:
>http://nikonclspracticalguide.blogspot.com/2008/01/nikon-flash-two-separate-metering.html

I certainly will review it again, Russ, thanks! I know you have a ton of experience with flash work.

David

"Sawed that board three times and it is still too short... "

  

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dagoldst Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2012Sun 20-Jan-13 10:55 PM
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#7. "RE: Quick question on the SB600"
In response to Reply # 2


Little Rock, US
          

>I invite you to read my blog articles on flash starting here:

Russ,

Well, that was well worth the time it took to look at what you wrote and use it to try out some different aspects of my D600 and SB600.

I have another question, (well, maybe more than one ). I see in the D600 it has a Auto FP 1/200 and Auto FP 1/250th. Would it be correct to assume that they offer different flash output levels when shooting above the 1/200th max sync of the D600?

Also, there is a selection for Exposure Comp. for Flash. The choices are "Entire frame" or "Background only". How does that work in conjunction with TTL and TTL BL?

David

"Sawed that board three times and it is still too short... "

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberMon 21-Jan-13 02:08 AM
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#8. "RE: Quick question on the SB600"
In response to Reply # 7
Mon 21-Jan-13 02:10 AM by Arkayem

Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>I have another question, (well, maybe more than one ). I
>see in the D600 it has a Auto FP 1/200 and Auto FP 1/250th.
>Would it be correct to assume that they offer different flash
>output levels when shooting above the 1/200th max sync of the
>D600?

The Auto FP mode puts the flash in a different ionization level, that fires the flash for a long period of time at a much lower power. In fact, in Auto FP mode, the flash turns on simultaneously when the shutter opens, and stays on for the complete shutter cycle (and longer), which takes approximately 1/200th sec on the D600 camera. Consequently, in Auto FP mode the flash cannot stop action. The shutter speed stops the action.

Yes, the power is variable in the alternate ionization level by changing the ionization voltage inside the flash. This allows TTL to still achieved.

The big problem with Auto FP mode is that when the flash is fired in the alternate ionization level, the efficiency is much worse than when fired in the primary (normal) level. This results in the maximum power of the flash being about 1/3 of what it is in normal sync mode.

Auto FP mode was designed for when close to your subject on a bright day. You place the sun behind your subject to eliminate squinting, and set a wide f/ stop to blur the background, and the shutter speed will increase to whatever necessary (way above sync speed) to control the ambient portion of the exposure. As long as you are only a few feet away from your subject, the flash will have enough power to fill in the shadows. Of course, this would only work when using the TTL-BL-FP mode with the camera in P mode (or the meter manually zeroed).

Actually one of my blogs addresses Auto FP mode:
http://nikonclspracticalguide.blogspot.com/2008/03/10-auto-fp-high-speed-sync-explained.html

>Also, there is a selection for Exposure Comp. for Flash. The
>choices are "Entire frame" or "Background
>only". How does that work in conjunction with TTL and
>TTL BL?

The D600 camera has two Exposure Compensation modes. The traditional mode adjusts both the camera and the flash power. The new special one that has been added isn't found on the professional cameras. The new mode adjusts only the ambient portion of the exposure. This is what they call the 'background' in the user's manual. What it actually does is adjust the aperture and shutter speed, leaving the flash power as it was. Most people do the same thing as this new mode by using camera Manual mode and adjusting the shutter speed. Of course, this is only for indoor low ambient conditions when using regular TTL; i.e., the flash is being used as primary.

I have never found camera exposure compensation to work well in bright ambient light using TTL-BL mode, so I never used it.

Most pros I worked with (myself included) always kept the exposure compensation on the camera set to 0.0 ev. Adjustments to the ambient (background) were made with the shutter, and adjustments to the flash power were made with the FEC on the back of the flash.

Russ
Retired Professional Photographer
Nikonian Moderator
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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dagoldst Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2012Mon 21-Jan-13 02:24 AM
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#9. "RE: Quick question on the SB600"
In response to Reply # 8
Mon 21-Jan-13 02:41 AM by dagoldst

Little Rock, US
          

Russ,

I shot this using the Auto FP 1/200th. The actual shutter speed is 1/250th, ISO 100, f/9.

BTW, I read your blog, it's quite thorough.

You think the D600 cannot product professional grade images? I noticed you said...

"The new special one that has been added isn't found on the professional cameras."





David

"Sawed that board three times and it is still too short... "

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberMon 21-Jan-13 01:02 PM
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#10. "RE: Quick question on the SB600"
In response to Reply # 9


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>Russ,
>
>I shot this using the Auto FP 1/200th. The actual shutter
>speed is 1/250th, ISO 100, f/9.

Very nice image!


>
>BTW, I read your blog, it's quite thorough.

Thanks.

>You think the D600 cannot product professional grade images?
>I noticed you said...
>
>"The new special one that has been added isn't found on
>the professional cameras."

I think I used a poor choice of words.

All Nikon DSLRs can produce professional quality images. The D600 is excellent, and you cannot see any difference between its images and the D4. The choice of lenses is more important than the body. A top lens on the D600 will make higher image quality than a consumer lens on a D4.

What I was referring to was the array of features found on the D3 and D4 compared to the D600. The second camera compensation mode is not present on the D3 and D4, because professional photographers wouldn't use it.

Russ
Retired Professional Photographer
Nikonian Moderator
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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dagoldst Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2012Mon 21-Jan-13 07:08 PM
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#11. "RE: Quick question on the SB600"
In response to Reply # 10


Little Rock, US
          

>The second camera compensation is not present on the D3 and D4, >because professional photographers wouldn't use it.


Interesting observation - while not a pro, after reading your explanation of Auto FP sync in your blog, I also don't really understand why there are two speeds, (1/200th and 1/250th) on the D600.

And I know quite well that the D3/D4 series is loaded with features that I probably would not use, (or more like, would be unwilling to pay for ). It seems like cameras like the D7000 and D600 have hit a sweet spot of price/value, at least for me - large feature set, terrific sensors,150k rated shutters, moisture sealed bodies with composite builds of magnesium/polycarbonate materials.

That said, the D600 subset of features in the CLS architecture would seem to be pretty extensive. I'll work on trying to master them.

Again, thanks for taking the time to write a very thorough intro to flash photography in the Nikon world and answering my questions.

David

"Sawed that board three times and it is still too short... "

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberMon 21-Jan-13 07:53 PM
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#12. "RE: Quick question on the SB600"
In response to Reply # 11


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>...I also don't really
>understand why there are two speeds, (1/200th and 1/250th) on
>the D600.

I think that they did it to try to get the highest possible sync speed. However, when you use the 1/250th option on the D600 part of the flash pulse gets cut off, resulting with reduced maximum power, so the higher sync speed has a slight penalty. Still, the higher sync speed is useful under most situations allowing you to use wider apertures before the FP Sync mode is invoked.

>And I know quite well that the D3/D4 series is loaded with
>features that I probably would not use, (or more like, would
>be unwilling to pay for ). It seems like cameras like
>the D7000 and D600 have hit a sweet spot of price/value, at
>least for me - large feature set, terrific sensors,150k rated
>shutters, moisture sealed bodies with composite builds of
>magnesium/polycarbonate materials.

I agree. The D600 is a fantastic value for a very capable FX camera! Now that I am retired from the daily wedding grind, I really don't need a D3 either. I rarely need to pound nails with my camera these days Now, I almost always use my D800.

>Again, thanks for taking the time to write a very thorough
>intro to flash photography in the Nikon world and answering my
>questions.

You're most welcome.

Russ
Retired Professional Photographer
Nikonian Moderator
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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aolander Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Sep 2006Sat 19-Jan-13 08:38 PM
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#6. "RE: Quick question on the SB600"
In response to Reply # 0


Nevis, US
          

TTL-BL is balanced fill flash which you don't want shooting indoors with the flash as the primary light source. Follow Russ' recommendations if you want good results.

Alan

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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