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Subject: "D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection" Previous topic | Next topic
Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Sun 29-Jan-12 01:28 AM
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"D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection"
Sun 29-Jan-12 01:34 AM by Vlad_IT

US
          

Good evening all.

Just going through my stuff and testing everything for tomorrow’s Birthday party (kids, kids, everywhere kids). I’m doing this for my practice only and it will be OK if I’ll mess it up a bit, but I want it to be as good as possible for my first “party” with D7000…. And I suddenly realize I’m not fully understand how it will work “behind the scene”, I mean what I’m trying to achieve.
I’ll be shooting in manual mode to get ambient light to where I want it to be and SB-700 with dome pointed up in TTL mode for main subject exposure (with color filter, if required). So far i understand what I'll be doing. I’ll have a stroboframe flash bracket with me, but most of the time I anticipate I’ll be using landscape mode for taking pictures of several kids at the same time. To get flash to TTL I’ll be switching metering to spot. I was going to use center AF point and recompose, but… here I realize it might be a wrong approach.

Usually, in matrix metering mode, I focus in AF-S on someone’s face/eyes,half press shutter release and then I recompose. But I’m not sure how D7000/SB-700 metering works in TTL. Will it get measurements from “matrix” metering or flash in TTL mode will use “spot” metering information? What happen if after recomposing “that” spot will be pointed to very dark or very reflective surface? The main subject will be over/underexposed?
Can you please explain to me how does metering works in TTL (not TTL-BL) mode. And how it usually handled by others in such events as kid’s parties?

My visualization of the process is either to use FV function, which most likely will be impractical with kids or to switch to 39 points and first compose, and then choose the right focus point manually before taking a picture…

Thanks in advance,
Vlad

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection
Arkayem Moderator
30th Jan 2012
1
Reply message RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection
Vlad_IT Silver Member
30th Jan 2012
2
Reply message Moderator request,
Vlad_IT Silver Member
30th Jan 2012
3
     Reply message RE: Moderator request,
Arkayem Moderator
30th Jan 2012
5
          Reply message RE: Moderator request,
DaddySS Gold Member
19th May 2012
6
Reply message RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection
JohnE Nikon Silver Member
28th Jun 2012
7
     Reply message RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection
Arkayem Moderator
28th Jun 2012
8
          Reply message RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection
JohnE Nikon Silver Member
28th Jun 2012
9
               Reply message RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection
Arkayem Moderator
28th Jun 2012
10
                    Reply message RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection
JohnE Nikon Silver Member
28th Jun 2012
11
                         Reply message RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection
tacomadm18
21st Nov 2012
12
                              Reply message RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection
Scorpio72
13th Mar 2014
13

Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberMon 30-Jan-12 12:33 AM
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#1. "RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon 30-Jan-12 01:00 PM by Arkayem

Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>Just going through my stuff and testing everything for
>tomorrow’s Birthday party (kids, kids, everywhere kids).

I'm sorry that I didn't see this until Sunday, which I guess is the day of your birthday party shoot. Well, let me answer anyway.

>I’m
>doing this for my practice only and it will be OK if I’ll mess
>it up a bit, but I want it to be as good as possible for my
>first “party” with D7000…. And I suddenly realize I’m not
>fully understand how it will work “behind the scene”, I mean
>what I’m trying to achieve.
>I’ll be shooting in manual mode to get ambient light to where
>I want it to be and SB-700 with dome pointed up in TTL mode
>for main subject exposure (with color filter, if required). So
>far i understand what I'll be doing. I’ll have a stroboframe
>flash bracket with me, but most of the time I anticipate I’ll
>be using landscape mode for taking pictures of several kids at
>the same time. To get flash to TTL I’ll be switching metering
>to spot. I was going to use center AF point and recompose,
>but… here I realize it might be a wrong approach.

The SB-700 does not have a switch or any method on the flash to select between TTL and TTL-BL. It will always be in TTL mode when you select Spot metering on the camera, and it will always be in TTL-BL mode when you select either CW or Matrix metering.

>Usually, in matrix metering mode, I focus in AF-S on
>someone’s face/eyes,half press shutter release and then I
>recompose. But I’m not sure how D7000/SB-700 metering works in
>TTL.

Matrix, CW, and Spot metering are all Camera functions. The flash system has its own metering.

In Spot metering, the flash will be in regular TTL mode and does not receive any data from the camera metering system. The regular TTL flash sets its power entirely based on the reflected energy of the monitor preflash.

However, when in matrix or CW metering, the data that the camera collects is fed to the TTL-BL flash metering system so it can calculate the required power to balance with the ambient. You see, in CW and Matrix metering the camera meters the entire frame, and the flash uses that data to determine what the ambient brightness is, so it can balance with it.

The critical step that you must take before you shoot any flash pictures, is to determine the amount of ambient light you are dealing with.

If you are in low ambient (like indoors in artificial light), the flash will be primary, so you should use regular TTL with the camera set to underexpose the subject by about two to three stops. You do this by using camera Manual mode and setting the aperture and shutter to offset the built-in light meter by two to three stops on the dark side.

If you are in bright ambient (like outdoors in daylight) the flash should be used in TTL-BL mode to add fill. In TTL-BL mode it is critical that the camera meter be centered, or it will not work correctly. In this case, I normally use the camera in P mode so that it will automatically center the light meter.

>Will it get measurements from “matrix” metering or
>flash in TTL mode will use “spot” metering information? What
>happen if after recomposing “that” spot will be pointed to
>very dark or very reflective surface? The main subject will be
>over/underexposed?
>Can you please explain to me how does metering works in TTL
>(not TTL-BL) mode. And how it usually handled by others in
>such events as kid’s parties?

I think I have already answered most of this question, except one thing I did not mention was that the regular TTL metering is center weighted. This means that you must keep your subject close to the center of the frame to get proper flash power. If you want the subject to be off-center, then use FV Lock (which fires the monitor preflash) with the subject centered to get a properly TTL metering. Then, recompose to take the picture. The flash power will remain locked until you hit the FV Lock button a second time or the light meter times out.

>My visualization of the process is either to use FV function,
>which most likely will be impractical with kids or to switch
>to 39 points and first compose, and then choose the right
>focus point manually before taking a picture…

The focus points have no affect on the flash power. The regular TTL flash metering is very very simple. It sets its power only based on the reflected power of the monitor preflash from the center weighted frame. That's it.

Now, in TTL-BL, the system becomes much more complex. The algorythm that calculates the flash power uses the data from the camera metering system (which it uses as a proxy for the ambient even though the subject is also included), the monitor preflash, and the distance to the subject as reported by the D lens. In fact, the monitor preflash is used in only a minor way when using TTL-BL. The distance to the subject and the metering data are the two primary factors in TTL-BL that are used to set the power. The monitor preflash is still center wighted, but it is normally such a small effect that you can assume that the flash power will be almost the same no matter where the subject is placed in the frame.

I have only touched the highlights in this post. There is much much more to this.

I invite you to read much more complete explanations about this and lots of other things in my blog articles starting here:
http://nikonclspracticalguide.blogspot.com/2008/01/nikon-flash-two-separate-metering.html

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Mon 30-Jan-12 12:43 AM
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#2. "RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection"
In response to Reply # 1
Mon 30-Jan-12 01:31 PM by Vlad_IT

US
          

Russ,
your blog posts are just awesome! Clean and easy to understand.
Thank you.


  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Mon 30-Jan-12 01:26 PM
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#3. "Moderator request,"
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

Please combine (if possible) this post with the one link below and make a sticky please. I think the information referenced here is more than “just helpful” .

here is the second post:

http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=154&topic_id=56683&mesg_id=56683&page=


Thanks in advance,
Vlad

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberMon 30-Jan-12 03:48 PM
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#5. "RE: Moderator request,"
In response to Reply # 3


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>Please combine (if possible) this post with the one link
>below and make a sticky please. I think the information
>referenced here is more than “just helpful” .
>
>here is the second post:
>
>http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=154&topic_id=56683&mesg_id=56683&page=
>
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Vlad
>

Thanks for your compliments! I will see what I can do to combine the two posts and make them a sticky.

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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DaddySS Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Dec 2006Sat 19-May-12 10:57 AM
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#6. "RE: Moderator request,"
In response to Reply # 5


Woodcliff Lake, US
          

The CLS blog is great, thanks (again)

Richard

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Thu 28-Jun-12 03:35 PM
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#7. "RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection"
In response to Reply # 1


New HArtford, US
          

Russ,
How would you shoot fast paced action when you may not have time to FV lock w TTL?

This weekend I shot a wedding.
During the reception and reception dancing I found it too difficult to FV lock w TTL.
I used manual mode I wanted to control iso, aperture and shutter speed. I found TTL-BL to be more accurate, likely because my subject was sometimes near edge of frame. Other than dance floor the reception was very dark and to balance ambient light I would have needed excessively high iso's > 6400 w an aperture of 4.0 and shutter speeds of > 1/60 sec. I think now I understand why TTL would not work as well. The center weighted nature of TTL may not work for my subject matter.

Would you shoot TTL-BL in this situation even though ambient light was low?
You are likely quicker w FV lock and other settings than me.

Some of my shots were hip shots w kids jumping or doing handstands and I had no time.

You can view some of these shots if interested in the K & R's wedding reception dance album in my Picasa link.

Do not judge the exposure entirely on what you see. Unfortunately I processed these on my laptop and noticed many underdeveloped. The angle I viewed my laptop while lying on the couch created an artificially bright screen. I have only corrected some of the images and need to correct all, prior to printing or presenting to the couple on CD. Many lessons to learn.

Thanks

John




JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberThu 28-Jun-12 06:13 PM
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#8. "RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection"
In response to Reply # 7


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>Russ,
>How would you shoot fast paced action when you may not have
>time to FV lock w TTL?

When I shot reception dancing, I always used regular TTL, with the flash set at -1.0 to -1.7 ev, since dancing has so much dark area that the flash will usually overexpose if you leave it at 0.0 ev. You can't use FV Lock on dancing, because there is no time for it. I just made sure the focus was right and placed the subject in the center. I would crop the images later for proper subject placement.

Also, I always shot raw for dancing, so there would be more room for exposure adjustment later.

I never used TTL-BL, because it underexposes unless you boost the ISO a lot, which makes noisy images. Also, TTL-BL in camera A mode always selects 1/60th sec, and this ends up with way too much ghosting in the faster dancing shots. I like 1/125th to 1/160th for fast dancing. That will give you just a bit of ghosting to convey the motion.

Russ
Retired Professional Photographer
Nikonian Moderator
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Thu 28-Jun-12 06:39 PM
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#9. "RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection"
In response to Reply # 8


New HArtford, US
          

>When I shot reception dancing, I always used regular TTL, with
>the flash set at -1.0 to -1.7 ev, since dancing has so much
>dark area that the flash will usually overexpose if you leave
>it at 0.0 ev.
>Also, I always shot raw for dancing, so there would be more
>room for exposure adjustment later.

Thanks. Explains my exposure w TTL-BL,...I think my images were somewhat underexposed. I have a lot of latitude as I shot RAW and in my estimate underexposure was usually less than 1 stop, easily corrected.
>
>
>I never used TTL-BL, because it underexposes unless you boost
>the ISO a lot, which makes noisy images. Also, TTL-BL in
>camera A mode always selects 1/60th sec, and this ends up with
>way too much ghosting in the faster dancing shots. I like
>1/125th to 1/160th for fast dancing. That will give you just a
>bit of ghosting to convey the motion.

I kept iso's between 400-640.
I usually kept shutter speeds 100-200. I often did not get much of the shutter drag look/ motion blur even if I dropped to 1/50 sec likely as the ambient light added little.

Thanks for your input.

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberThu 28-Jun-12 06:51 PM
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#10. "RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection"
In response to Reply # 9


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>>When I shot reception dancing, I always used regular TTL,
>with
>>the flash set at -1.0 to -1.7 ev, since dancing has so
>much
>>dark area that the flash will usually overexpose if you
>leave
>>it at 0.0 ev.
>>Also, I always shot raw for dancing, so there would be
>more
>>room for exposure adjustment later.
>
>Thanks. Explains my exposure w TTL-BL,...I think my images
>were somewhat underexposed. I have a lot of latitude as I
>shot RAW and in my estimate underexposure was usually less
>than 1 stop, easily corrected.
>>
>>
>>I never used TTL-BL, because it underexposes unless you
>boost
>>the ISO a lot, which makes noisy images. Also, TTL-BL in
>>camera A mode always selects 1/60th sec, and this ends up
>with
>>way too much ghosting in the faster dancing shots. I like
>>1/125th to 1/160th for fast dancing. That will give you
>just a
>>bit of ghosting to convey the motion.
>
>I kept iso's between 400-640.
>I usually kept shutter speeds 100-200. I often did not get
>much of the shutter drag look/ motion blur even if I dropped
>to 1/50 sec likely as the ambient light added little.

For TTL-BL to work properly, the camera meter must be centered. In other words, the image should be exposed properly without flash and flash is added as fill only.

If the ambient is underexposed while using TTL-BL, then your resulting images will be often be underexposed.

Normally, TTL-BL should be used in bright ambient conditions with the camera in one of the auto modes, so the meter will center itself automatically. If you use TTL-BL without centering the meter, then your results will be unpredictable and the flash strength will be drastically affected by any lights present in the frame. Sometimes the exposure will be close, but other times it will be way off.

Regular TTL with flash compensation is usually the best choice for low ambient conditions.

Russ
Retired Professional Photographer
Nikonian Moderator
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Thu 28-Jun-12 07:29 PM
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#11. "RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection"
In response to Reply # 10


New HArtford, US
          

Thanks

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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tacomadm18 Registered since 29th Aug 2011Wed 21-Nov-12 03:53 AM
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#12. "RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection"
In response to Reply # 11


US
          

good post - I have some reading to do

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Scorpio72 Registered since 02nd Nov 2013Thu 13-Mar-14 07:52 PM
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#13. "RE: D7000/SB700 in TTL and AF point selection"
In response to Reply # 12


CZ
          

Thanks for sharing ! Very useful !!!

  

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