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Subject: "Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-90..." Previous topic | Next topic
ylwdog Registered since 08th Jun 2009Sat 16-Jan-10 11:54 AM
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"Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-900 and D700"
Sat 16-Jan-10 12:46 PM by ylwdog

US
          

Hi guys,
I am shooting an event this weekend which started on Thursday, every day I run into a new situation/problem, different from the previous day and I do not have time to sit down and figure it out during the event.

Today is the last day and I need to make sure I get some shots, critical to the job. And I have to head out of here in less than an hour, so your guy's help will be so appreciated!

Edit: I think I may have severely misstated my issue: In retrospect I do not believe I was in commander/remote mode on day one, but rather I was using on camera flash w/ the SB-900. So please accept my apologies for this error. But question stands that while in remote mode if FP High Speed Sync can be used and if FV setting can be used on flash rather than in camera?

In commander mode on D700 using pop-up flash to trigger SB-900 two days ago the flash was in TTL/BAL/FP mode which was great. I could shoot rapid burst sequence shots w/ the flash at a high shutter speed, 1/500. Yesterday I could not use CH (continuous high) and I could not get the flash into FP mode. The only readout I could get was "Remote" which allowed me to change Group/Channel/Zoom. What did I change in the settings either on the camera or in the flash that will not allow me to alter the flash settings?
The other question is, can I change the FV on the flash, e.g. from 0 to +- .3,.7,1, etc... while in Remote mode. I can do it in the menu on camera, but this is extremely slow way to access this control.

Thanks,

Doug

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: S...
gkaiseril Gold Member
16th Jan 2010
1
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jherrel Silver Member
17th Jan 2010
2
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Arkayem Moderator
17th Jan 2010
3
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ylwdog
17th Jan 2010
4
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Arkayem Moderator
18th Jan 2010
5
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jherrel Silver Member
18th Jan 2010
6
     Reply message RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: S...
ylwdog
18th Jan 2010
7
     Reply message RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: S...
jherrel Silver Member
18th Jan 2010
8
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nightcat
18th Jan 2010
10
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ctadin Silver Member
18th Jan 2010
9
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Arkayem Moderator
18th Jan 2010
11
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ylwdog
27th Mar 2010
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cliddell Silver Member
28th Mar 2010
13

gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Sat 16-Jan-10 08:03 PM
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#1. "RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-900 and D700"
In response to Reply # 0


Chicago, US
          

Have you looked at post "World of Nikon Sppedlights"?

The is a link in post to a quick start guide.

When in the Wireless mode the remote units are controlled by the 'Master' unit. When using the camera, you need to go through the camera menus. When an SB-900/800 or SU-800 is attached as a 'Master/Commander', you use the Speedlight menu.

The pop-up can not perform FP, you need the SB-900/800/600.

There is also an SU-4 mode for the SB-900/800 and in that mode the SB-900/800 is a dumb remote and you can only set the power levels on the remote units. In the SU-4 mode you also have to cancel all pre-flashes, red eye reduction and AF assist.

If you are going to use CLS Wireless you need to practice your setups and understand how this complex system works and its limitations. You might also want to pick up a book about the Nikon CLS system. Nikonians press has a good book about the system.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

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jherrel Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Apr 2007Sun 17-Jan-10 03:24 PM
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#2. "RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-900 and D700"
In response to Reply # 0


Elgin, US
          

I use D200 & D300, not a D700, but I think the critical features to your situation are the same.

1. If you are using CLS, set your SB-900 to REMOTE. Set the Channel, group and zoom angle on the SB-900. ALL other settngs are done on the MASTER/COMMANDER. This includes, flash mode (manual, TTL, etc), EV adjustments, channel and group.

2. The MASTER/COMMANDER can be your D-700 built-in-flash if you set menu e3 to C. You can set the flash contribution for the built-in-flash at e3 also. Ading and using an SU-800/SB-800/SB-900 as a MASTER/COMMANDER addes groups, ease of use and other advantages.

3. You can only use TTL-BL or TTL-BL-FP when your SB-900 flash in in the hot shoe or attached to the hot shoe via an SC-29 or similiar cable. So if you want to use BL/fill flash you can't use CLS and a remote flash. But, you can use TTL or TTL-FP and adjust the EV from the MASTER/COMMANDER. Using camera manual exposure with TTL works really well for this. Set the environmental/background lighting by adjusting the shutter speed. Set your aperature to get the depth of fiend you desire and adjust the flash EV on the MASTER/COMMANDER to get the subject exposure.

4. You CAN use FP high speed sync with the built-in-flash. I tested my D300 with and without FP and it works. You set this at e1 on the camera. It doesn't make any difference what you are using as a MASTER/COMMANDER.

5. If you want multi frame shooting, either CL or CH you have two choices. Have your SB-900 in the hot shoe/attached to the hot shoe via a cable or use an SU-800/SB-800/SB-900 as a MASTER/COMMANDER. However, it may not fire as fast as you think it will and the flash(es) may not recycle fast enough to keep up with the multi frame sequence.

6. No you don't change the EV on the flash while in Remote. You change it on the MASTER/COMMANDER. It is much faster and easier not haqving to walk to the flash.

Hope this helps and it is definitely better to test it before you have to use it in critical situations.

John Herrel
Nikonian from South Carolina
See the light, capture the essence!

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberSun 17-Jan-10 07:33 PM
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#3. "RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-900 and D700"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>Edit: I think I may have severely misstated my issue: In
>retrospect I do not believe I was in commander/remote mode on
>day one, but rather I was using on camera flash w/ the SB-900.

I am not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean you had the SB-900 mounted on the camera?

>question stands that while in remote mode if FP High Speed Sync can >be used and if FV setting can be used on flash rather than in
>camera?

FP Sync cannot be selected when using the pop-up flash as the Commender. The pop-up flash does not support FP Sync mode at all. You have to keep your shutter speed at Flash Sync speed or slower (1/250th on the D700).

All flash power settings when using Commander/Remote wireless must be made on the Commander menu. And if the Commander is the pop-up flash, the settings all must be made on the camera menu.

>In commander mode on D700 using pop-up flash to trigger SB-900
>two days ago the flash was in TTL/BAL/FP mode which was great.
>I could shoot rapid burst sequence shots w/ the flash at a
>high shutter speed, 1/500.

You must have had the SB-900 mounted on the camera, since that is the only way you will ever see TTL-BL in the display on the back of the flash. TTL-BL mode is never available when using a Commander to control a Remote.

>Yesterday I could not use CH
>(continuous high) and I could not get the flash into FP mode.
>The only readout I could get was "Remote" which
>allowed me to change Group/Channel/Zoom. What did I change in
>the settings either on the camera or in the flash that will
>not allow me to alter the flash settings?

The flash was not designed to use burst mode. You can only shoot continuous flash shots if each shot uses a very small amount of the energy stored on the capacitor in the flash. Once the capacitor charge is used up. it takes about 4 seconds to recharge it. You can usually shoot several shots in burst mode if you are using TTL mode if the subject is very close, like three feet away.

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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ylwdog Registered since 08th Jun 2009Sun 17-Jan-10 10:26 PM
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#4. "RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-900 and D700"
In response to Reply # 3


US
          

Thanks for your help guys. Trust me I did not know I was going to have to shoot in such conditions... I got thrown into the fire w/out warning. I only started using/learning/studying flash two months ago and wow- what a steep learning curve.

I understand now better the flash's capabilities from my use and your explanations here. I am quite sure more questions will surface so I hope I may ask them freely here.

Best,

Doug

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberMon 18-Jan-10 02:46 AM
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#5. "RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-900 and D700"
In response to Reply # 4


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>Thanks for your help guys. Trust me I did not know I was
>going to have to shoot in such conditions... I got thrown into
>the fire w/out warning. I only started using/learning/studying
>flash two months ago and wow- what a steep learning curve.
>
>I understand now better the flash's capabilities from my use
>and your explanations here. I am quite sure more questions
>will surface so I hope I may ask them freely here.
>
>Best,
>
>Doug

Doug, I recommend you read my blogs I have written on this subject, starting here: http://nikonclspracticalguide.blogspot.com/2008/01/nikon-flash-two-separate-metering.html

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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jherrel Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Apr 2007Mon 18-Jan-10 05:18 AM
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#6. "RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-900 and D700"
In response to Reply # 3


Elgin, US
          

Since you are normally my authority on CLS and speedlights, I hesitate to disagree with you. But, my tests using my SB-900 in Remote mode and my D300 built-in-flash at 1/250 vs 1/250 high speed sync/Auto FP, says that the built-in-flash does work as a commander using Auto FP. I tested A, S and M modes and Auto FP works on all three at shutter speeds of 1/1000 sec with the built-in-flash and 1/250 sec and Auto FP. If I set it to 1/250 and NO FP, the shutter speed cannot be increased above 1/250 sec. The LCD images and the histogram tell me that Auto FP does work when the built-in-flash is used as a commander. Is the D700 different than the D300 in this regard?


John Herrel
Nikonian from South Carolina
See the light, capture the essence!

  

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ylwdog Registered since 08th Jun 2009Mon 18-Jan-10 11:57 AM
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#7. "RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-900 and D700"
In response to Reply # 6


US
          

John,
Would you mind listing your exact settings to establish FP on the SB-900 while in remote mode using your pop-up flash on the D300, both for the flash and the camera?

Thanks,

Doug

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jherrel Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Apr 2007Mon 18-Jan-10 02:17 PM
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#8. "RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-900 and D700"
In response to Reply # 7


Elgin, US
          

Here are my settings.

SB-900
1. Set the OFF,ON,REMOTE, MASTER switch to REMOTE. Your SB-900 flash will only say Remote on the LCD. It doesn't indicate Auto FP and isn't controlled on the flash. It is controlled by whatever you are using as a commander. In your case it is the D300.
2. Set the Group to A and Channel to 1. The group and channel can vary, but need to match the camera. Group and Channel are not relevant to FP functionality.
3. I have the diffusion dome on, so the zoom automatically is 17mm. Zoom is also not relevant to FP functionality.

D300 Camera
1. In Custom Menu settings e1 - set the flash sync speed to either 1/320* or 1/250*. These are the top two menu selections that are Auto FP. This is critical to getting Auto FP.
2. In the Custom Menu Settings - set e3 to Commander Mode. Then press the right arrow in that menu to get to the submenu. Here set Built-in flash Mode to --- (no flash added), Group A to TTL and Channel to 1. You could use Group B and a different channel, they just need to match the flash. You can also toggle to the "Comp." setting to set the EV compensation. This is where the adjustments occur and it is much faster and easier to do the adjustments when the commander is an SU-800/SB-800/SB-900. Depending on the enviromental lighting you will need to adjust the EV of the flash. But remember, you do the adjustments from your Camera e3 menu, not on the SB-900. That is the beauty of CLS. You also need to get accustomed to the limitations of CLS in large indoor rooms or outdoors. CLS uses IR and is line of sight.
3. Use camera A, S or M mode. I use M (manual) frequently with flash.
4. Remember that Auto FP only fucntions when the shutter speed is greater than the sync speed. At lower shutter speeds, the flash functions as if it is in TTL or TTL-BL mode. You also need to understand that the effective flash output and effective distance are greatly dimenished when using Auto FP. In other words, you need to be close. You need to test to find what works for you.
5. Pop up the built-in flash, set your ISO, aperture and shutter speed to get a shutter speed of 1/500 sec or faster and take a picture.

Hope this helps.


John Herrel
Nikonian from South Carolina
See the light, capture the essence!

  

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nightcat Registered since 05th Mar 2006Mon 18-Jan-10 03:06 PM
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#10. "RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-900 and D700"
In response to Reply # 8


LaCrosse,WI, US
          

I just confirmed John's settings with my D300 and SB800. I took a picture of my flash firing at 1/640s. I also took a picture of a blank wall at 1/2000s and got full coverage, which means the flash is firing in FP. I also used the SG-3IR to make sure the built-in wasn't contributing to the exposure. However, the built-in flash limits the camera to sync speed when it is in ttl or m mode. The built-in flash isn't capable of FP, but it can trigger a remote flash. So it is possible to do FP with remote flashes. That's good to know, thanks.

Kraig

"The wisest follow their own directions" -Euripides
"I thought there would be more elephants" -C. Columbus

  

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ctadin Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2008Mon 18-Jan-10 02:26 PM
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#9. "RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-900 and D700"
In response to Reply # 6
Mon 18-Jan-10 03:16 PM by ctadin

St Louis, US
          

John,
I just ran the test using my Nikon D700 Pop up flash as the Commander and the SB-900 in remote mode. I was able to fire my SB-900 with my camera set at 1/320th Auto FP in all camera modes. And, I also got the same result when I set my shutter to 1/250th, I could not adjust my shutter speed to go higher than 1/250th. So I would say the D700 is similar to the D300 in this regard.

Cheryl

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberMon 18-Jan-10 09:45 PM
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#11. "RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-900 and D700"
In response to Reply # 6


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>Since you are normally my authority on CLS and speedlights, I
>hesitate to disagree with you.

Absolutely no problem! I make my share of mistakes, no matter how careful I am, and I'm glad somebody is watching out for that! Thank you.

>But, my tests using my SB-900
>in Remote mode and my D300 built-in-flash at 1/250 vs 1/250
>high speed sync/Auto FP, says that the built-in-flash does
>work as a commander using Auto FP. I tested A, S and M modes
>and Auto FP works on all three at shutter speeds of 1/1000 sec
>with the built-in-flash and 1/250 sec and Auto FP. If I set
>it to 1/250 and NO FP, the shutter speed cannot be increased
>above 1/250 sec. The LCD images and the histogram tell me
>that Auto FP does work when the built-in-flash is used as a
>commander. Is the D700 different than the D300 in this
>regard?

John,

You are right.

I confused it with the fact that the pop-up flash cannot OPERATE in FP mode, so if you use it as a Commander, and you want the remotes to work in FP mode, you have to turn it to --- in the Commander menu. If it is in any other mode, you will not be able to select FP operation (ie, you won't be allowed to select shutter speeds above the flash sync speed).

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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ylwdog Registered since 08th Jun 2009Sat 27-Mar-10 12:08 PM
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#12. "RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-900 and D700"
In response to Reply # 11


US
          

Thank you everyone for your help on this. Sorry for the late reply- I thought I had posted thanks and when I went to revisit it today I saw I had not expressed my gratitude or thanked you guys- so Thanks!

Doug

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cliddell Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Oct 2006Sun 28-Mar-10 03:35 PM
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#13. "RE: Urgent help needed w/ off camera flash using CLS: SB-900 and D700"
In response to Reply # 12


Pietermaritzburg, ZA
          

An interesting topic!

As I understand this (new to me) idea, it seems to me that using Commander mode with the camera set to --- must somehow invoke a FP flash from the Remote flash.

I have just been experimenting with my D200 (with SG-3IR) and a remote SB-800 and at 1/1000 or 1/2000 I get perfect coverage.

Is this officially documented anywhere?

Regards,
Clive Liddell
Pietermaritzburg
South Africa

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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