I have been waiting for Pocket Wizards to come out with their iTTL compatible units, but I am losing patience.

I would like to hear from people who have used Radio Poppers for iTTL.

Which products have you used?

How well do they work with iTTL?

Do they feel solid enough for 'Pro Use' (rough use)?

Thanks,

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

I have the PX series and now have the PX optional stands. The units are small and compact so one could stand on them without the antenna attached.

The iTTL works very well just make sure you have the radio link established. I have found the menu selection a little hard, small buttons and coded display to be less then ideal. Make sure to pack a copy of the manual with your kit. But once you are setup, there is not much need to change the settings as the SB-900/800 or SU-800 master controls the remotes as normal.

Prior to obtaining the stands, I used the Velcro strips to hold the remotes on the remotes. This mounting was rather thin and most of the remote unit was off the edge of the remote and was not very stable. For the remotes, I strongly suggest purchasing the optional stands, the stand has a 1/4 #20 screw insert in the base. There is a transmitter stand for the pop-up flash which is nice addition for those cameras with a pop-up flash.

The transmitter on the SB-900/800 or SU-800 is held by large a Velcro strip and the transmitter fits within the footprint of the unit. You could add a Velcro wrap strap around the whole unit for a more secure hold is desired.

The RP requires the camera to trigger a flash of some kind and the transmitter has an induction pickup. I used some double sided tape to workout the best mounting location for the transmitter on my SB-800's prior to placing the Velcro hold down.

I think the PW with the hot shoe transmitter may open some additional creative flash use by having the master unit off of the camera, although the master's menu will now be off the camera. Also, I like the ability to update firmware without having to return the units.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

Thanks George!

Do you know if the Radio Poppers will work with the SU-800 on-camera?

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

Russ,

I do not have an SU-800, but Radiopopper Review: a first look, with some add-ons by Thomas Graves, mounts the transmitter on top of the SU-800 and uses some Velcro on the sides of the transmitter and the SU-800 for more holding power.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

Hi Russ,

I checked Pocket Wizards site the other day and the latest guess is late December though most likely January 2010 introduction of the Nikon version. Cxxxn screwed up the works for the Nikon system when they introduced the 5DmkII and PW had to make changes to get it to work. Sort of makes me feel like a second class citizen! Shame on Pocket Wizard!
Good Luck and Enjoy your Nikons!

Best Regards,
Marty

>Hi Russ,
>
>I checked Pocket Wizards site the other day and the latest
>guess is late December though most likely January 2010
>introduction of the Nikon version. Cxxxn screwed up the works
>for the Nikon system when they introduced the 5DmkII and PW
>had to make changes to get it to work. Sort of makes me feel
>like a second class citizen! Shame on Pocket Wizard!
>Good Luck and Enjoy your Nikons!

I just checked the PW site today, and it says 2010 now!

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

I sick of waiting too but George's description seem typical and sounds like it wouldn't suit me at all. Here's hoping it's January 2010 rather than even later.

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Russ:

As you know, the PW people have had a lot of trouble with the C**** version of their TTL wizards. It seem the problems are camera model specific, which only complicates things. Apparently the RF shielding of the camera/speedlight circuitry changes from model to model, which, in turn, requires changes to the TTL models. Per the PW web site, they have decided to hold back the Nikon versions until the problems with the C**** models are corrected.

I was in a local store recently and a C**** wedding photographer was in there with a set of the PW TTL units that were behaving very erratically on his 5D Mk II camera. They would work on some channels, but not others. They never did get it resolved.

Since much of my speedlight herd use is outdoors at night in manual mode anyway, I decided to skip the RF TTL systems earlier this year and now have thirteen Pocket Wizards, six of the Plus II units and seven of the MultiMax units. With all the remote SB800s in the SU4 mode, I can set them individually, thereby bypassing the three group limitations imposed by CLS.

Had I given it more thought, I would have purchased all MultiMax units as they are much more sophisticated and they have 36 RF channels.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

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Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

>As you know, the PW people have had a lot of trouble with the
>C**** version of their TTL wizards. It seem the problems are
>camera model specific, which only complicates things.
>Apparently the RF shielding of the camera/speedlight circuitry
>changes from model to model, which, in turn, requires changes
>to the TTL models. Per the PW web site, they have decided to
>hold back the Nikon versions until the problems with the C****
>models are corrected.

Yeah, I know. I was just wondering about Radio Poppers. I watched a You-Tube video on them a while ago and was not impressed. It seemed to be a very unprofessional Rube Goldberg contraption. I was just wondering whether they had made them better.

>Since much of my speedlight herd use is outdoors at night in
>manual mode anyway, I decided to skip the RF TTL systems
>earlier this year and now have thirteen Pocket Wizards, six of
>the Plus II units and seven of the MultiMax units. With all
>the remote SB800s in the SU4 mode, I can set them
>individually, thereby bypassing the three group limitations
>imposed by CLS.
>
>Had I given it more thought, I would have purchased all
>MultiMax units as they are much more sophisticated and they
>have 36 RF channels.

I definitely do not want the Manual operation ever again. I did too much of that in the studio for many years.

Most of the time IR Wireless works fine for me in the studio, but there are times when I'd like to place my flash behind my background and light it from behind. Can't do that without RF. And of course, outside weddings could use more reliable triggering for the formals.

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

After watching the videos put together by Tricoast photography on the PW eTTL system, I was less than convinced of the viability of kludging an RF TTL system onto a flash unit.

I think I'm sold on Pocket Wizard, but since I don't need them quite yet, I think I'll wait until they fix the TTL system, come out with the Nikon version and see how it works. If I'm still not happy, I'll go the MultiMax route.

Of course, the minute I invest in some PocketWizards, Nikon will announce Speedlights with built in RF technology...

--------------------------
Rick Paul
The Photo Professors

Saguaro Shadows Photography
Tucson, Arizona

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I have been using the Radio Popper PX system since March 2009, about 6 months, and am very happy. My primary uses include bridal portraits and wedding photography. I like iTTL flash!! But I still do some manual flash. It works flawlessly indoors and outdoors. Today, I use the system with an SU-800 as commander, 2-SB800s, 1-SB900 and 2-SBR200s. Here are my observations and comments.

Customer Service - Radio Popper has great customer service. They promptly answer any questions if I can't figure it out on my own.

Setup - Setup is normally a once and done process. Selecting Nikon was the only default setting I changed. After that, you just turn them on. However, about a month ago, one of the units stopped working and I called customer service and we went through setup again. One of the settings had changed and that fixed it. If it had happened in the field, you probably would have needed the manual which is a pdf file printed out.

Durability - I treat them like I treat the rest of my cameras, lenses and flashes during a busy wedding. When a light stand topples over they hit the ground along with the flash. Sofar, no problems. The new PX Stands did solve the battery door and velcro problem.

Reliability - a) I got this system because CLS and IR didn't work reliably in a large church or outside. I don't want to have to explain to the wedding party about line of sight, as I have to make adjustments in lighting to get flash to work. b) In the six month that I have had them, they just work indoors and outdoors, through floors and walls. I have tested them at greater than 100 yards (I don't need more distance than that), they just work. c) I had one unit that went dead and wouldn't turn on. RP gave me a new one at no cost. I have found that the antenna can be placed in any position and they always work.

Battery Life - I use rechargable AAA batteries. They last the entire wedding day and a 1000+ shots. RP says that the LED light is the major battery drain, so I dialed it down to a dimmer setting as a precaution to extend battery life. But, I didn't have a problem at the brighter setting.

Design - It is a workable design. I would prefer an internal antenna (think cell phone). The depressable switches are small, but OK since you only have to turn them on once. The battery doors are small and not attached. You can drop them, but you can drop the SB800 battery door which is supposed to be attached, but falls off easily when changing bateries. So, it's not a problem that needs a solution yet. The new PX stand definitely secures the battery door in place. Would I prefer RF built-in to new Nikon Speedlights...in our dreams. Would I prefer a "hot shoe" design, I think so, but I don't know what complications that brings.

New PX Stand - A big improvement over velcro. Secures battery door. It comes in two pieces, the foot and the RP mount to the IR eye on the speedlight. The mount has three possible positions that align/adjust the height to the eye based on speedlight model. Since I only use my SB800s as remotes, I keep them mounted in the PX Stand all the time, both storage and use. However, I use my SB-900 both remotely and on my RRS wedding bracket. When you take the speedlight out of the foot, the RP mount tends to fall off the foot. It is easily replaced, but I am considering "glueing" mine in place making it simpler during a wedding. The PX stand contains a foam rubber piece that comes glued to the stand that fits between the IR eye on the speedlight and the RP receiver. It prevents stray light from entering the IR eye on the speedlight. It works great, but I am concerned about the durability of this foam rubber after a high number of assemblies. At some point, I'll probably just buy a spare stand. I do not think this is a big deal. The stand foot contains a brass female screw thread to screw it onto a light stand, very nice.

Mixed IR and RF Use - If you are like me and have SBR200s or more speedlights than RP receivers, you need to use both IR and RF simultaneously. It works! I use an SU800 as commander with the RP transmitter attached to the front of the SU800 and frequently use the SBR200s as hairlights indoors and SB800s, SB900s as primary and fill.

SU-800 Usage - This is where all the CLS commander control happens. Nothing new to learn. Mounting is the only issue. Alas, I still use Velcro because they have no mechanical foot, but it works fine. I mounted the Velcro to the back of the RP transmitter. I mount the other side of the Velcro to the SU-800 battery door. To get a solid reliable mount I placed two pieces of double sided tape at each edge to make the curved door surface flat. It feels very secure to me. I leave the RP transmitter velcroed to the SU800 all the time unless I need to change the SU800 battery. It works fine.

Use with Mono Lights - They say it works, but I don't have any.

Use with a Light Meter - Nope. I still have two PW Plus IIs and my Sekonic 358 with PW Chip.

Hope this helps you in evaluating RP.

John Herrel
Nikonian from South Carolina
See the light, capture the essence!

John,

Thanks very much for this excellent report!! It really does help a lot!

I will still probably wait for Pocket Wizard, since I really like their Plus IIs, but your comments have improved the acceptability level of Radio Poppers in my mind a lot!

Thanks,

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

It is nice to know that I can help the "Master".

John Herrel
Nikonian from South Carolina
See the light, capture the essence!

>It is nice to know that I can help the "Master".

LOL!!!

Just another Nikonian!

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

I have the Px units for my Nikon SB-900 units and the new JrX units for use with my Alienbees.

Nikon is already pretty solid with their CLS system and how well it works. However, line of sight and distance will always be the downfall to their technology. RadioPoppers takes care of this...

By the looks of things, the PocketWizard units that are competing for the High Speed sync throne are not doing the trick. Lots of unhappy Canon shooters. They don't even have a Nikon version available at this time.

So on that note, the RadioPoppers are the bees knees and you should pick up the PX units. No need for the JrX ones if you aren't using studio strobes. They are selling like hotcakes so get them while they are hot!

-----------------------------------
Photography Workshops: www.inlightinworkshop.com

My Photography: www.ParamourPhoto.com
My Blog: www.ParamourPhoto.net

The problem with the PW's and Canon flashes is the stray electric noise, interference, being emitted by the Canon flashes. And this electrical interference is confusing the PW electronics. PW has now designed and electric signal shield in an attempt to cut this interference down to the point it does not cause a problem. There is no explanation as to what is causing the delay for the Nikon units.

The electrical interference for RF equipment is like bright lights for IR, Infra Red, systems.

Radiopoppers are only available for the U.S. and Canada. This has to do with each country allocating the usage of the radio frequencies. This accounts for the statement at the PW site about being able to service units only in the markets that they are designed for and that one can not mix U.S. and European units.

PW also allows for user firmware updates while radiopoper requries factory reprograming.

So until this is all worked out by both companies, I do not think either has an edge. But if you want a Nikon solution now, the only choice is radiopopper.

I have a tranmitter and 2 receivers along with the optional holders.

I want to see how well the PW camera transmitter controls remote Nikon master units.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

Hi George,

Reading between the lines the problems that PW is having are due to design flaws and variation in the Canon system. As you stated the Canon Speedlights are not shielded.
There also seems to be variation in the E-TTL control circuitry between camera models. Specificly the 5DmkII.
I have also read that Nikon Speedlights do not emmit interference like the Canon units and Some Canon units are much worse than others.
Because the issued the Canon system first, they were forced to stop working on the Nikon system in order to get their system to work with the recently released 5DmkII and work around the interference problem with the Canon Speedlights.
Good Luck and Enjoy your Nikons!

Best Regards,
Marty

>Hi George,
>
>Reading between the lines the problems that PW is having are
>due to design flaws and variation in the Canon system. As you
>stated the Canon Speedlights are not shielded.
>There also seems to be variation in the E-TTL control
>circuitry between camera models. Specificly the 5DmkII.
>I have also read that Nikon Speedlights do not emmit
>interference like the Canon units and Some Canon units are
>much worse than others.
>Because the issued the Canon system first, they were forced to
>stop working on the Nikon system in order to get their system
>to work with the recently released 5DmkII and work around the
>interference problem with the Canon Speedlights.
>Good Luck and Enjoy your Nikons!

It also doesn't help that there is still no Nikon version of the new PWs... Not good if you could or need to use the features now.

-----------------------------------
Photography Workshops: www.inlightinworkshop.com

My Photography: www.ParamourPhoto.com
My Blog: www.ParamourPhoto.net

Russ,

I have been waiting for the PW TTL products as well and I will likely put up with the wireless IR problems until the TT5 comes out. I did send an inquiry in to PW support asking about the release date and I received this reply a few minutes later from a technical support person.

Hi Curtis,

Thanks for your inquiry. In the USA, our Nikon products are due out in January of 2010 and should be similarly priced to Canon models. We are making every effort to expedite their release, but recent developments with our Canon radios have required us to temporarily shift focus away from our Nikon products. You can read more about the upcoming Nikon release in this news update:
http://www.pocketwizard.com/news_events/news/updates/


The website said the Canon problems are behind them but the above response clearly indicates that the issues remain and Jan 2010 is the best case Nikon release date. They appear to have had to go through a redesign and are beta testing their product again. Because inventory is in the pipe PW has many more constraints on their solution and implementation that may be causing them to have to commit all of their resources to the issue.

Curtis S

Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement.~ Mark Twain

Thanks Curtis. This is about what I thought.

I can't afford to be one of their guinea pigs, so I will wait until the bugs are ironed out of the Nikon version - 2012?

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

>Thanks Curtis. This is about what I thought.
>
>I can't afford to be one of their guinea pigs, so I will wait
>until the bugs are ironed out of the Nikon version - 2012?
>
>Russ
>Nikonian Team Member
>http://russmacdonaldphotos.com">Russell
>MacDonald Photography
>>"http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com"]Nikon
>CLS Practical Guide

I appreciate what you are saying here but this is Pocket Wizard and not Radio Popper/Cactus et al. I'd expect pretty much full functionality and maybe some bonuses along the way.
As I'm in the UK, I fully expect to see the CE version of the PWs before the Radio Poppers ever appear.

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>I appreciate what you are saying here but this is Pocket
>Wizard and not Radio Popper/Cactus et al. I'd expect pretty
>much full functionality and maybe some bonuses along the way.
>As I'm in the UK, I fully expect to see the CE version of the
>PWs before the Radio Poppers ever appear.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Radio Poppers have been shipping for quite some time, and apparently they work well based on previous posts in this thread.

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

>>I appreciate what you are saying here but this is Pocket
>>Wizard and not Radio Popper/Cactus et al. I'd expect
>pretty
>>much full functionality and maybe some bonuses along the
>way.
>>As I'm in the UK, I fully expect to see the CE version of
>the
>>PWs before the Radio Poppers ever appear.
>
>I'm not sure what you are saying here. Radio Poppers have been
>shipping for quite some time, and apparently they work well
>based on previous posts in this thread.
>
>Russ
>Nikonian Team Member
>http://russmacdonaldphotos.com">Russell
>MacDonald Photography
>>"http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com"]Nikon
>CLS Practical Guide


As far as I know the Radio Poppers are only available for the US and Canadian markets. They run on the same frequency as UK GSM mobile phones and are not legal for use here. The CE versions have been promised for a long long time now.
Having said that, I hope I'm wrong as I'm coming round to the idea of them.

EDIT:

Sorry, I think I've misunderstood what you meant.
I was refering to the fact that the PWs are the premium product here compared with the Poppers et al and hopefully, no-one should be a guinee Pig when the Nikon versions hit. I would certainly hope not considering the price and the problems they have had witht eh Canon versions anyway.

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>Sorry, I think I've misunderstood what you meant.
>I was refering to the fact that the PWs are the premium
>product here compared with the Poppers et al and hopefully,
>no-one should be a guinee Pig when the Nikon versions hit. I
>would certainly hope not considering the price and the
>problems they have had witht eh Canon versions anyway.

I hope you are right about the Nikon version, since Canon owners have been guinea pigs for almost a year now.

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

>I hope you are right about the Nikon version, since Canon
>owners have been guinea pigs for almost a year now.


Me too. From my understanding of it all, It's the Canon flashes themselves and the different implementations within the Canon bodies that are the problems. There should be no probs with Nikon Speedlights but I have no idea if CLS is implemented in a different way in different bodies.

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I'm in the UK and was fortunate enough to get my hands on a set of PX units - wow is the only word.

I'm a wedding photographer and whilst using a manual setup may be preferable iTTL is quick and gets the shot.

They have proved super reliable - right till they hit concrete and wouldn't switch off - RP customer service was great and I've a replacement on the way.

I would love to have gone PW - but why did they think it necessary to reinvent TTL ? and not very well ? Nikon has developed its system over years - so using that in a reliable way with radio seems logical.


Simon Revill
website blog

There is no reinvention of CLS, it is just translating the electric pulses from triggering the light to modulated RF. And if one has 2 transmitters or receivers close enough together, like 2 FM radios, it is possible that one will cause an issue with the other. This can also happen if one places a radio too close to a computer. Not as much with today's computers and the higher speed chips, but with the Altair, IMSAI, and Processor Technology Sol 20 it was possible to hear the data moving through the computer by placing an AM radio next to the computer.

The issue with the Canon flashes is the Electric Magnetic Pluses, EMF, caused by the electrons moving through the strobe's electric circuits is interfering with the PW's electric circuits. This does not appear to happen with the Nikon units. This could be caused by a clock speed used by Canon vs. the Nikon clock speed, it could also mean that Nikon has better shielded units or radiopoppers are better shielded than PWs. It also does not rule out a problem with Nikon units as newer models are issued.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

Actually it doesn't use the output from one flash and send that same output to the other - rather interprits it - changes it to its own PW format - sendsit - then converts it back

This is unlike RP's that just send the UNALTERED information via radio


Simon Revill
website blog

Some test using PW's and PW's introduction of RF shields for the Canon units along with testing by TriCoast's moving the PW receivers from the remotes indicated there was an RF interference issue.

It seems to be overkill to reinvent the coding.

George
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