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Subject: "SB-900 overheat problem" Previous topic | Next topic
AymanLawati Registered since 06th Jun 2009Sat 20-Jun-09 10:14 PM
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"SB-900 overheat problem"


AE
          

Hi
Sometime my SB-900 is overheated when I shoot more that 150 pictures and it takes about 7 minutes to cool down. Am a wedding photographer so I dont have this time to spend on the flash to cool down. Any solution for this (my firmware is 5.02)

  

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Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: SB-900 overheat problem
gheck58 Silver Member
21st Jun 2009
1
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Arkayem Moderator
21st Jun 2009
2
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econprof
21st Jun 2009
3
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Arkayem Moderator
21st Jun 2009
4
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ScottChapin Moderator
21st Jun 2009
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Arkayem Moderator
21st Jun 2009
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ScottChapin Moderator
21st Jun 2009
7
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Arkayem Moderator
22nd Jun 2009
8
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ScottChapin Moderator
22nd Jun 2009
9
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ScottChapin Moderator
22nd Jun 2009
10
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Exposure1
25th Jun 2009
11
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ScottChapin Moderator
25th Jun 2009
12
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Curtis_S
26th Jun 2009
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Arkayem Moderator
26th Jun 2009
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Curtis_S
27th Jun 2009
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jherrel Silver Member
27th Jun 2009
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ScottChapin Moderator
27th Jun 2009
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Curtis_S
28th Jun 2009
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ScottChapin Moderator
28th Jun 2009
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jherrel Silver Member
28th Jun 2009
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blw Moderator
29th Jun 2009
21
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ScottChapin Moderator
29th Jun 2009
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jherrel Silver Member
29th Jun 2009
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jherrel Silver Member
29th Jun 2009
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ScottChapin Moderator
29th Jun 2009
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29th Jun 2009
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29th Jun 2009
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30th Jun 2009
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gheck58 Silver Member Nikonian since 26th Dec 2003Sun 21-Jun-09 12:40 AM
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#1. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 0


Aliso Viejo, US
          

You have a couple of choices. You can turn off the overheat protection and risk burning up the flash tube or you can buy an SB-800 or another brand of flash. You still risk burning up the flash tubes though if you are shooting continuously and at full power. The whole point of the overheat protection is to keep you from damaging your flash. I'd rather have a flash that I have to wait a little while to cool down than one with a blown tube. I would also suggest that if you are shooting weddings without a back-up flash you are taking a big risk.

Hecky

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Visit my Nikonians gallery.

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberSun 21-Jun-09 02:47 AM
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#2. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 1


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>You have a couple of choices. You can turn off the overheat
>protection and risk burning up the flash tube or you can buy
>an SB-800 or another brand of flash. You still risk burning
>up the flash tubes though if you are shooting continuously and
>at full power. The whole point of the overheat protection is
>to keep you from damaging your flash. I'd rather have a flash
>that I have to wait a little while to cool down than one with
>a blown tube. I would also suggest that if you are shooting
>weddings without a back-up flash you are taking a big risk.

I've about come to the conclusion that the SB-900 is worthless as a wedding flash. You sinply cannot just quit shooting in the middle of a wedding and wait for your flash to cool. I can see it now "Hold that bouquet for a few minutes while my flash cools".

As I mentioned in another recent post, my SB-800s will flash all day using the 5th battery option and never shut down. They get so hot you can hardly touch them, but they keep right on working.

Since the SB800 is no longer made, I think the only flash that makes any sense for weddings is an SB600. It won't shut down or burn up either, no matter how hard you push it.

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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econprof Registered since 04th Jan 2008Sun 21-Jun-09 03:11 AM
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#3. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 2
Sun 21-Jun-09 03:27 AM by econprof

US
          

Does turning off the overheat protection not really turn it off? If this feature can be completely disabled, why is this flash worthless for weddings, or is it somehow not disabled?

Update: Just found a partial answer to my question. The thermal protection is in both software and hardware, and the hardware protection cannot be disabled. Does the hardware protection kick in at a higher temp than the software option?

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberSun 21-Jun-09 12:27 PM
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#4. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 3


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>Update: Just found a partial answer to my question. The
>thermal protection is in both software and hardware, and the
>hardware protection cannot be disabled. Does the hardware
>protection kick in at a higher temp than the software option?

Yes, that's what I am talking about. The hardware thermal shutdown cannot be disabled, and it kicks in way sooner than is acceptable for weddings (in my opinion).

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberSun 21-Jun-09 08:20 PM
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#5. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 4


Powder Springs, US
          

My wife just shot second camera at a wedding yesterday with a D200, SB900, and an SD9. She took 319 photos without even a hint of overheating.

We started shooting at 3:30 and wrapped up around 10:00. That is about typical for us. I suppose it could get more intense with large weddings. Ours only had 150 guests, and I felt we were running out of subject matter.

OTOH my Trio was crapping out. There were a few miss fires and under exposures that I caught as they happened. My SB800 on the same D300 experienced no such problems.

I need to figure this out. Maybe I was pressing the AE button instead of AF-ON, but didn't realize it since the focus was not changing between shots. I'm not sure that would prevent the flash from trying to nail its exposure or not. I've got to play with it.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberSun 21-Jun-09 10:26 PM
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#6. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 5


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>My wife just shot second camera at a wedding yesterday with a
>D200, SB900, and an SD9. She took 319 photos without even a
>hint of overheating.
>
>We started shooting at 3:30 and wrapped up around 10:00. That
>is about typical for us. I suppose it could get more intense
>with large weddings. Ours only had 150 guests, and I felt we
>were running out of subject matter.

I can see where with two shooters on a wedding this size, you probably didn't have too many rapid flash shots, and so the SB900 would be OK. When I shoot as a second shooter at a reception, my SB800 barely gets warm.

My flash really gets hot when I'm shooting solo, especially at the reception during the wedding party grand entrance, the key dances (1st dance, father/daughter, mother/son, etc) and when things get wild like when the couple are hoisted up in chairs at a Jewish wedding. Sometimes I fire off 150 full-dump shots as fast as my flash will recycle. That's when I think the SB900 would shut down.

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberSun 21-Jun-09 10:59 PM
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#7. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 6


Powder Springs, US
          

True, but during the dances, she fired a good 30 shots or so as fast as she could hit the release. To hear it, that's all it takes to bring the SB900 down on its knees.

I think this issue has a lot of photographers like me getting nervous, but I don't think it's that much of an issue for most. If I didn't dislike the idea of hammering the shutter needlessly, I would fire off rapid fire full dumps to see what it would take.


Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberMon 22-Jun-09 02:22 AM
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#8. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 7


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>True, but during the dances, she fired a good 30 shots or so
>as fast as she could hit the release. To hear it, that's all
>it takes to bring the SB900 down on its knees.

I wonder if it depends on the copy of the SB900 you happen to have? Maybe some are fine and others have the problem. Maybe they made a running manufacturing change and never told anyone about it. Maybe the newer ones don't have the problem.

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberMon 22-Jun-09 02:31 AM
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#9. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 8


Powder Springs, US
          

Well, I bought mine the first day of issue, so I don't know.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

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ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberMon 22-Jun-09 02:33 AM
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#10. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 5
Mon 22-Jun-09 01:25 PM by ScottChapin

Powder Springs, US
          

>OTOH my Trio was crapping out. There were a few miss fires and
>under exposures that I caught as they happened. My SB800 on
>the same D300 experienced no such problems.
>
>I need to figure this out. Maybe I was pressing the AE button
>instead of AF-ON, but didn't realize it since the focus was
>not changing between shots. I'm not sure that would prevent
>the flash from trying to nail its exposure or not. I've got to
>play with it.

I like answering my posts...LOL. For those who are following this, the Trio seems to have a new (second) firmware update that addresses this very issue.

Edited to add: Nope, the previous firmware update, which I had already installed was supposed to have fixed this. I must have a different problem.

Also, exposure lock does not affect the flash output. I didn't think it would, but now I know for sure.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

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Exposure1 Registered since 08th May 2006Thu 25-Jun-09 05:40 PM
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#11. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

On really hot & humid days this can happen... I use 2 SB800's so to avoid this possible problem I rotate them once or twice if outdoors on a really hot & muggy day to avoid this problem.

DL Cleve, Oh

www.lorenzopics.com

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ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberThu 25-Jun-09 06:34 PM
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#12. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 11


Powder Springs, US
          

Unfortunately that is not the case. It was happening in the sanctuary and again last night in my living room.

In Auto mode I have no issues.

In QTTL (radio off) the lights don't flash indicating proper exposure, but I got several good exposures.

In QTTLw (radio on, like at the wedding) the lights don't flash indicating proper exposure and a few were under exposed and one was a misfire.

In both QTTL modes the speaker beeps for proper exposure and the test button triggering indicates proper exposure. The problem is using the radio without a remote, I guess. Quantum says I should be able to leave the radio on even without a remote.

I await Quantum's further response.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

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Curtis_S Registered since 04th Jan 2005Fri 26-Jun-09 08:49 PM
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#13. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

>I've about come to the conclusion that the SB-900 is worthless
>as a wedding flash. You sinply cannot just quit shooting in
>the middle of a wedding and wait for your flash to cool. I can
>see it now "Hold that bouquet for a few minutes while my
>flash cools".

Russ,

I thought I was reading in some of the posts that if one uses an SD-9 external battery pack with the SB900 that this solved the thermal shutdown problem by removing the battery heat load from the thermal breaker. Is this not the case?

Also, I had read that there was a firmware upgrade for the flash that also helped reduce this problem. Was that just a myth? If not, do you know what firmware version one needs and can I remotely upload this?



Curtis S

Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement.~ Mark Twain

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberFri 26-Jun-09 10:18 PM
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#14. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 13


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>I thought I was reading in some of the posts that if one uses
>an SD-9 external battery pack with the SB900 that this solved
>the thermal shutdown problem by removing the battery heat load
>from the thermal breaker. Is this not the case?

That certainly sounds reasonable. Maybe someone who owns both items could report on this.

>Also, I had read that there was a firmware upgrade for the
>flash that also helped reduce this problem. Was that just a
>myth? If not, do you know what firmware version one needs and
>can I remotely upload this?

Several people have reported that the firmware upgrade did not help much.

To be fair, I've read posts from some people who have not had the overheating problem. I suspect that they ones who don't have the problem simply do not shoot as many images, but I'm not sure.

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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Curtis_S Registered since 04th Jan 2005Sat 27-Jun-09 02:05 AM
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#15. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 14


US
          


>To be fair, I've read posts from some people who have not had
>the overheating problem. I suspect that they ones who don't
>have the problem simply do not shoot as many images, but I'm
>not sure.

Temperature inside the unit would depend on heat generation and transfer which in turn is dependent on many things. Frequency of shots would probably the number one factor but cranking the ISO up as you know could have a tremendous impact by keeping the power used and recycle times way down. Condition and type of battery would be huge as the heat in the battery would be a function of I*I*R where I is the current and R is the resistance. Also, as batteries self heat the R goes higher making the problem even worse.

With batteries in poor condition the R is already higher causing the heat generated to go up. The voltage on the battery would drop with higher R requiring more current and therefore more heat as a square of the current. Also heat transfer is a function of the cube of the differences between the different surfaces so a slight change in ambient temperature could have a huge impact on the temperature inside the unit. Also there is a tolerance on the thermal breaker itself and it may be some actually pop at a lower temp. Often the cycling of a thermal breaker causes the trip point to drop so once it starts popping, it becomes easier for it to go causing the trip temperature to drop more.

Bottom line is the temperature is a result of heat management which is a very dynamic system dependent and sensitive to many elements. Because there seems to be little margin in the system design, slight changes in any of these factors could create very different results for users.

Curtis S

Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement.~ Mark Twain

  

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jherrel Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Apr 2007Sat 27-Jun-09 01:10 PM
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#16. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 14


Elgin, US
          

I shot my last wedding using my D300, SB900 and my new SD-9. The use of the SD-9 improved the number of shots before the thernal protection was triggered and greatly improved the recycle time. After some pre-wedding testing, I decided to turn off the thermal protection in the SD-9 menu. There is still an audible warning that occurs on every shot when you reach the thermal limit, but the flash will still keep firing. The SB900 lens only got a little warm to the touch, never hot and I checked frequently. It was much cooler than my SB800 under similar circumstances. I was using a Demb Flipit Diffuser. This time, I was not using the gel holder, Nikon diffuser or the friznel, any of which might retain more heat at the lens. Since I want fast recycle times, I try not to have full dumps by adjusting the ISO if necessary. Yes, I have the latest firmware update installed. Checking the temperature by touching the lens with your fingers is admittedly an unscientific method of measuring the temmperature of the unit. Maybe the SB900 is damaged at a much lower temperature than the SB800. From my experience, I am currently comfortable shutting off the thermal protection and being careful. The alternatives are purchasing 3 times as many SB900s and enabling the thermal protection or buying a QFlash(s).


John Herrel
Nikonian from South Carolina
See the light, capture the essence!

  

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ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberSat 27-Jun-09 01:52 PM
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#17. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 16


Powder Springs, US
          

Hey John,

That's what I suspected. Gail fired of over 330 shots without a hitch and thermal overload protection was on. During the dances, I'm sure she got off enough shots to shut it down the way some talk, but it kept going.

So that begs to ask how many shots you took and over what period of time to trigger the thermal overload protection? I will rely on my QFlashes, if I need to shoot 700 shots in 3 hours.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

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Curtis_S Registered since 04th Jan 2005Sun 28-Jun-09 01:39 AM
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#18. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 16


US
          

>I decided to turn off the thermal protection in the SD-9 menu. >There is still an audible warning that occurs on every shot when you
>reach the thermal limit, but the flash will still keep firing.

John,
Can you clarify a point of confusion for me. Is there thermal protection in BOTH the SB900 and SD9 and you can turn off the protection in the SD9 but NOT in the SB900?


Curtis S

Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement.~ Mark Twain

  

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ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberSun 28-Jun-09 01:45 AM
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#19. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 18
Sun 28-Jun-09 01:48 AM by ScottChapin

Powder Springs, US
          

There is in both. You cannot turn off the protection in the SD-9, but you can in the SB-900.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

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jherrel Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Apr 2007Sun 28-Jun-09 03:14 PM
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#20. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 18


Elgin, US
          

Correction! I turned off the thermal protection in the SB900 not the SD-9. I had the SC-9 attached to my belt and wasn't watching it for the red flashing lights that indicate overheating. However, I checked the temperature with my hand/fingers and I didn't consider it hot at all. Here is a timeline and info from my Lightroom catalog of this wedding:

1. Getting Ready in the hotel (1:42-2:59 PM), iTTL ISO 200 f/4 - 140 shots in 1:17 hrs. I heard the audible thermal alarm on the SB900 after about 70 shots and began to monitor for heat with my hand. Slightly warm, definitely not hot.
2. Formals outside the wedding and reception venue(3:17-3:52 PM)iTTL-BL ISO 200 f/4-5.6 199 shots in 35 minutes. Some audible alarm, not hot to the touch.
3. Wedding party group shots on golf course - no flash
4. More weddng party outside (5:07-5:58 PM)iTTL-BL ISO 200 f/4-5.6 About 200 shots in 50 minutes. Some shots didn't use flash. Occasional alarm, not hot.
5. Pre-ceremony and ceremony - no flash
6. Reception outside under a white tent and it is beginning to get dark to dark (8:30-11:09 PM) iTTL-BL to iTTL ISO 200-800 f/2.8-7.1 469 shots in 2:39 hours. Audible alarms at times, not hot to the touch.

Hope this information is helpful.

Since I felt the SB900 and SD-9 were warm, but definitely not hot, I think the thermal protection triggers too soon.






John Herrel
Nikonian from South Carolina
See the light, capture the essence!

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Mon 29-Jun-09 04:04 AM
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#21. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond, US
          

I think that part of the issue is the power source. The flash tube does get hot, but in my use, the majority of the heat comes from the batteries. I use high-capacity NiMH (specifically, Maha 2700 maH), and they tend to run pretty hot after just a few shots. Interestingly, last time I shot a lot of flash I accidently swapped batteries between the flashes. I keep low-discharge batteries (Maha Imedion, 2100 mah) in my SB-800 because I don't use it that often, and having the regular batteries in there just means I'd have to charge them every time I want to use the flash. Interestingly, the low-discharge batteries were not as hot as I remember the regular ones getting. I suspect that non-rechargable lithium batteries run much cooler than either of the NiMH's, although I don't have any to try at the moment. I just got more of the low-discharge batteries, so I'll be keeping them in the SB-900 too now.

Everything cools down pretty quickly, and it seems to me that if one hits the overtemp, changing batteries will cure it quite quickly. If one had two units, switching for a few minutes would also seemingly sort the problem out.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberMon 29-Jun-09 01:56 PM
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#22. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 21
Mon 29-Jun-09 03:01 PM by ScottChapin

Powder Springs, US
          

Good point. I wonder what chemistry John was using. My SD-9 is loaded up with Eneloops and the flash has alkalines. I figure the flash batteries draw very little current for the control circuits and alkalines will last even better than eneloops, though not significantly, for that purpose.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

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jherrel Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Apr 2007Mon 29-Jun-09 02:30 PM
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#23. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 22


Elgin, US
          

I was using the Powerex 2700s in both the SB900 and SD-9.

John Herrel
Nikonian from South Carolina
See the light, capture the essence!

  

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jherrel Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Apr 2007Mon 29-Jun-09 02:31 PM
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#24. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 23


Elgin, US
          

These are NiMH.

John Herrel
Nikonian from South Carolina
See the light, capture the essence!

  

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ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberMon 29-Jun-09 03:04 PM
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#25. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 24


Powder Springs, US
          

Yep, thanks for that info. Regular NiMH batteries supposedly run a lot hotter than the eneloops or low discharge NiMHs. Although, the batteries in the flash should not run that hot regardless of chemistries when external packs are used, I would think.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Mon 29-Jun-09 06:13 PM
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#26. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 25


Richmond, US
          

> the batteries in the flash should not run that hot regardless of chemistries when external packs are used, I would think.

I'm using the same Powerex 2700's as John - and let me tell you, I got a rude surprise once when I shot a bunch of flashes and then changed battery sets during a lull in the schedule. They can get HOT. Hot enough to be very uncomfortable to hold. If one has the batteries in some external location, they can get hot but they won't trigger the thermal protection circuit in the flash.

I read your comment more closely and you're right - you won't think that they'd get so hot if you're using an external power supply, but I don't have one of those so can't comment.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberMon 29-Jun-09 07:00 PM
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#27. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 26
Mon 29-Jun-09 07:02 PM by ScottChapin

Powder Springs, US
          

I cannot comment either, because we shot only about 350 flashes over a 6.5 hour time on that camera. That's averaging about 1 shot per minute on the one camera. According to the Speedlight manuals we should have got 585 shots without any problem over that period of time.

I don't know where there would be enough subjects to shoot 3 frames per minute at a wedding, unless it is a very large wedding and you want to get all of the guests. That mentality is probably from my film days when shooting a planned 4 rolls of 36 was ample.

When I packed the wife's camera, the flash was as cool as a cucumber and still recycling very quickly. The battery pack wasn't hot either.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

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ssmumich00 Registered since 20th Mar 2009Tue 30-Jun-09 03:55 PM
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#28. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 27


US
          

Question about the SD-9, can it be mounted directly on the camera body where the tripod screws in?

Does anyone shoot like this? (if so, post a picture on your D200/300?)

I'm subtly convincing my wife into getting me the SB-900 for my 30th, wondering if I can forego other things and get the SD-9 as well - my SB-400 was fine for casual use, but as I have progressed into client-directed shoots, it's a bit embarrassing with the recycle time and renting ain't cutting it anymore. . .

  

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ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberTue 30-Jun-09 05:13 PM
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#29. "RE: SB-900 overheat problem"
In response to Reply # 28


Powder Springs, US
          

>Question about the SD-9, can it be mounted directly on the
>camera body where the tripod screws in?
>

It can, but for me, that is very awkward, but then I use a grip as well. The pack is fairly large, relative to the camera body, but that might not bother you. This is MHO, YMMV.

The SB-9 on the other hand is not all that large and works well on a belt, or even in a shirt pocket. For my (belt-less) wife, I hooked the standing ends of a shoulder strap through a carabiner and weaved the carabiner through the belt loops. This worked fine for her as a shoulder strap.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

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