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Subject: "Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and A..." Previous topic | Next topic
yoose Registered since 23rd Sep 2007Wed 22-Oct-08 04:53 PM
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"Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"


Tucson, US
          

Hi,

I am trying to use my D90 as a commander to trigger my SB600 remotely in manual mode. The reason I am not using TTL is because I am trying to use it with my Lester Dine macro which is an AIS lens so it wont meter with my D90. However, I can not get it to work, is this even possible?
Settings:
D90 in commander mode set to --
Group A set to M
Built in flash is up

SB600 set to wireless mode


If i mount the SB600 in the hot shoe, it works fine, but when I set it up as a remote, the flash mode indicator in the control panel blinks (can someone tell me what this means in general, I looked through my manual and could not find it ) and the camera does not even take a picture. So, am I doing something wrong or is what I want not possible?

Thanks.

Kyle
http://picasaweb.google.com/kyleyu

  

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Elyone
22nd Oct 2008
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yoose
22nd Oct 2008
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Wayne
22nd Oct 2008
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yoose
22nd Oct 2008
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Wayne
22nd Oct 2008
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HBB Moderator
22nd Oct 2008
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yoose
22nd Oct 2008
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22nd Oct 2008
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23rd Oct 2008
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23rd Oct 2008
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yoose
23rd Oct 2008
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Elyone Registered since 16th Oct 2008Wed 22-Oct-08 06:45 PM
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#1. "RE: Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"
In response to Reply # 0


IL
          

I'll try:
I think setting M on grp A means that your remote needs to be able to act like a slave, i.e. sense the light itself to fire the flash. The SB-600 cannot do that, only the SB-800 can.

When you mount it on the camera, the SB-600 can indeed fire in M mode.

  

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yoose Registered since 23rd Sep 2007Wed 22-Oct-08 06:51 PM
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#2. "RE: Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"
In response to Reply # 1


Tucson, US
          

>I'll try:
>I think setting M on grp A means that your remote needs to be
>able to act like a slave, i.e. sense the light itself to fire
>the flash. The SB-600 cannot do that, only the SB-800 can.
>
>When you mount it on the camera, the SB-600 can indeed fire in
>M mode.

It is my understanding that the SB-600 can act like a slave, but not a commander. Is that incorrect?

Kyle
http://picasaweb.google.com/kyleyu

  

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Wayne Registered since 05th Nov 2005Wed 22-Oct-08 07:25 PM
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#3. "RE: Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"
In response to Reply # 2


US
          


>It is my understanding that the SB-600 can act like a slave,
>but not a commander. Is that incorrect?


That is correct, not incorrect. Just that "slave" is not the exact right word here, the SB-600 is instead a Remote. A slave just triggers in Manual mode when it sees the light from another flash, and the SB-600 cannot do that. But the SB-600 is a Nikon Remote that understands communication from a Nikon Commander, and has much more versatility, like wireless remote multiflash TTL (or it can include a manual power level setting too).

If the entire LCD of the flash is blinking, that is a function not described in the manual, and it is surely best to contact Nikon Support to inquire if it needs to be sent in for service. In the USA, then http://nikonusa.com/Service-And-Support/Service-And-Repair.page





  

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yoose Registered since 23rd Sep 2007Wed 22-Oct-08 08:31 PM
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#5. "RE: Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"
In response to Reply # 3


Tucson, US
          

>
>>It is my understanding that the SB-600 can act like a
>slave,
>>but not a commander. Is that incorrect?
>
>
>That is correct, not incorrect. Just that "slave"
>is not the exact right word here, the SB-600 is instead a
>Remote. A slave just triggers in Manual mode when it sees the
>light from another flash, and the SB-600 cannot do that. But
>the SB-600 is a Nikon Remote that understands communication
>from a Nikon Commander, and has much more versatility, like
>wireless remote multiflash TTL (or it can include a manual
>power level setting too).
>
>If the entire LCD of the flash is blinking, that is a function
>not described in the manual, and it is surely best to contact
>Nikon Support to inquire if it needs to be sent in for
>service. In the USA, then
>http://nikonusa.com/Service-And-Support/Service-And-Repair.page
>

Wayne,

Thanks for the reply. The LCD of the flash is not blinking, sorry for the confusion. The control panel I am referring to is the top LCD of the D90, the flash status on that is blinking. Do you know that refers to? Thanks.

Kyle
http://picasaweb.google.com/kyleyu

  

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Wayne Registered since 05th Nov 2005Wed 22-Oct-08 09:45 PM
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#9. "RE: Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"
In response to Reply # 5


US
          


>The LCD of the flash is not blinking,
>sorry for the confusion. The control panel I am referring to
>is the top LCD of the D90, the flash status on that is
>blinking. Do you know that refers to? Thanks.

I agree with Russ, that it probably is the lens. I don't know about a D90, but my D300 has provision to work with such AI lenses, but if you do not do its exact menu procedure to do it, then the aperture value and shutter value in top LCD do blink, meaning I think, situation is unacceptable.

Try any different modern lens first to get the flash system working well. Then see if you can substitute the AIS lens into a working system.

  

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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Charter MemberWed 22-Oct-08 07:30 PM
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#4. "RE: Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed 22-Oct-08 07:33 PM by HBB

Phoenix, US
          

Kyle:

I do not own a D90, so do not have detailed instructions for the commander mode setup.

I do know that the D90 can control up to two groups of remote speedlights in the CLS mode: SB900, SB800, SB600 and SB-R200. Any number of speedlights can be configured in the remote groups. I have used as many as twelve remote SB800s in this mode. See your D90 manual for setup instructions.

The D90 and all remote speedlights must be on the same channel: 1, 2, 3 or 4. With a single remote SB600, you will select one of the two groups shown in the D90 manual and be sure the remote SB600 is set to that group.

Once the SB600 is set up in the remote mode (see your SB600 manual), all further adjustments are made from the D90 menu. You can select either the TTL or the manual mode for the remote SB600, again from the D90 menu.

In the TTL mode, your on-camera popup speedlight will emit a preflash pulse, prior to shutter opening. The remote SB600 will respond and an exposure compensation power setting will be calculated and sent back to the remote SB600. Then the shutter opens. At some point in the shutter open interval (front curtain, rear curtain, etc.) a triggering pulse will be sent from the popup speedlight and all of them will fire in unison for image capture.

In the manual mode, the popup sends a user-selected power level setting to the remote SB600 prior to shutter opening. Once the shutter is open and the triggering pulse appears, the remote SB600 will fire at the power level you selected.

Hope this helps a bit.

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

  

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yoose Registered since 23rd Sep 2007Wed 22-Oct-08 08:36 PM
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#6. "RE: Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"
In response to Reply # 4


Tucson, US
          

>Kyle:
>
>I do not own a D90, so do not have detailed instructions for
>the commander mode setup.
>
>I do know that the D90 can control up to two groups of remote
>speedlights in the CLS mode: SB900, SB800, SB600 and SB-R200.
> Any number of speedlights can be configured in the remote
>groups. I have used as many as twelve remote SB800s in this
>mode. See your D90 manual for setup instructions.
>
>The D90 and all remote speedlights must be on the same
>channel: 1, 2, 3 or 4. With a single remote SB600, you will
>select one of the two groups shown in the D90 manual and be
>sure the remote SB600 is set to that group.
>
>Once the SB600 is set up in the remote mode (see your SB600
>manual), all further adjustments are made from the D90 menu.
>You can select either the TTL or the manual mode for the
>remote SB600, again from the D90 menu.
>
>In the TTL mode, your on-camera popup speedlight will emit a
>preflash pulse, prior to shutter opening. The remote SB600
>will respond and an exposure compensation power setting will
>be calculated and sent back to the remote SB600. Then the
>shutter opens. At some point in the shutter open interval
>(front curtain, rear curtain, etc.) a triggering pulse will be
>sent from the popup speedlight and all of them will fire in
>unison for image capture.
>
>In the manual mode, the popup sends a user-selected power
>level setting to the remote SB600 prior to shutter opening.
>Once the shutter is open and the triggering pulse appears, the
>remote SB600 will fire at the power level you selected.
>
>Hope this helps a bit.
>
>HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
>Nikonian Team Member
>
>Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.


HBB,

Thanks for the reply. I am able to set it up correct. When I use my kit lens which meters, the wireless TTL works and the flash fires so I do not think the setup is the problem. However, when I set it up with my AIS lens, TTL wont work since the D90 wont meter with it so I set them up in manual mode. I select the power with the D90, put the SB600 in manual mode and doesn't work.

12 SB800s, that's awesome. that must be a lot of fun.

Kyle
http://picasaweb.google.com/kyleyu

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberWed 22-Oct-08 09:14 PM
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#7. "RE: Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>Hi,
>
>I am trying to use my D90 as a commander to trigger my SB600
>remotely in manual mode. The reason I am not using TTL is
>because I am trying to use it with my Lester Dine macro which
>is an AIS lens so it wont meter with my D90. However, I can
>not get it to work, is this even possible?
>Settings:
>D90 in commander mode set to --
>Group A set to M
>Built in flash is up
>
>SB600 set to wireless mode
>
>
>If i mount the SB600 in the hot shoe, it works fine, but when
>I set it up as a remote, the flash mode indicator in the
>control panel blinks (can someone tell me what this means in
>general, I looked through my manual and could not find it )
>and the camera does not even take a picture. So, am I doing
>something wrong or is what I want not possible?
>
>Thanks.

Well, I don't know for sure, but it sounds like your lens is preventing it from working.

When I use my SB-600 in Remote mode with my D200 and 17-55mm f/2.8 DX lens, I can use the Commander exactly as you indicated to fire it in Manual mode. The flash mode indicator doesn't blink.

I don't have a lens that doesn't meter to try any further experiments.

Russ
http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/
http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com/

  

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yoose Registered since 23rd Sep 2007Wed 22-Oct-08 09:28 PM
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#8. "RE: Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"
In response to Reply # 7


Tucson, US
          

>>Hi,
>>
>>I am trying to use my D90 as a commander to trigger my
>SB600
>>remotely in manual mode. The reason I am not using TTL is
>>because I am trying to use it with my Lester Dine macro
>which
>>is an AIS lens so it wont meter with my D90. However, I
>can
>>not get it to work, is this even possible?
>>Settings:
>>D90 in commander mode set to --
>>Group A set to M
>>Built in flash is up
>>
>>SB600 set to wireless mode
>>
>>
>>If i mount the SB600 in the hot shoe, it works fine, but
>when
>>I set it up as a remote, the flash mode indicator in the
>>control panel blinks (can someone tell me what this means
>in
>>general, I looked through my manual and could not find it
>)
>>and the camera does not even take a picture. So, am I
>doing
>>something wrong or is what I want not possible?
>>
>>Thanks.
>
>Well, I don't know for sure, but it sounds like your lens is
>preventing it from working.
>
>When I use my SB-600 in Remote mode with my D200 and 17-55mm
>f/2.8 DX lens, I can use the Commander exactly as you
>indicated to fire it in Manual mode. The flash mode indicator
>doesn't blink.
>
>I don't have a lens that doesn't meter to try any further
>experiments.
>
>Russ
>http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/
>http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com/


Russ,

thanks for the reply. That is my thought as well, however, I am wondering if I have my setup wrong or if its just not possible to do what I want with the equipment I have. Any ideas?

Kyle
http://picasaweb.google.com/kyleyu

  

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yoose Registered since 23rd Sep 2007Thu 23-Oct-08 12:11 AM
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#10. "RE: Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"
In response to Reply # 0


Tucson, US
          

Thanks to everyone who responded, I figured it out. The problem was that group B was in TTL mode and i guess when its like that, the camera is expecting to be able to meter. So group B needs to be in -- or M mode instead of TTL or AA mode for it to work in wireless non-TTL mode.

Kyle
http://picasaweb.google.com/kyleyu

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberThu 23-Oct-08 02:19 AM
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#11. "RE: Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"
In response to Reply # 10


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>Thanks to everyone who responded, I figured it out. The
>problem was that group B was in TTL mode and i guess when its
>like that, the camera is expecting to be able to meter. So
>group B needs to be in -- or M mode instead of TTL or AA mode
>for it to work in wireless non-TTL mode.

I'm not sure that is correct.

I set my D200 in Commander mode, with Group A in Manual set at 1/4th power, and Group B in TTL. Then, I set my SB-600 on a stand in Remote mode with Group A.

The SB-600 fired and the power was adjustable from the commander as it should be.

Then, I added an SB-800 in Remote mode with Group B selected, and it fired in TTL mode and its power was adjustable up and down with the flash compensation on the Commander setting for Group B, as it should.

So unless your D90 works differently than my D200, I still think something else is causing you your problems.

Russ
http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/
http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com/

  

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yoose Registered since 23rd Sep 2007Thu 23-Oct-08 02:39 AM
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#12. "RE: Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"
In response to Reply # 11


Tucson, US
          

>>Thanks to everyone who responded, I figured it out. The
>>problem was that group B was in TTL mode and i guess when its
>>like that, the camera is expecting to be able to meter. So
>>group B needs to be in -- or M mode instead of TTL or AA mode
>>for it to work in wireless non-TTL mode.
>
>I'm not sure that is correct.
>
>I set my D200 in Commander mode, with Group A in Manual set at
>1/4th power, and Group B in TTL. Then, I set my SB-600 on a
>stand in Remote mode with Group A.
>
>The SB-600 fired and the power was adjustable from the
>commander as it should be.
>
>Then, I added an SB-800 in Remote mode with Group B selected,
>and it fired in TTL mode and its power was adjustable up and
>down with the flash compensation on the Commander setting for
>Group B, as it should.
>
>So unless your D90 works differently than my D200, I still
>think something else is causing you your problems.
>
>Russ
>http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/
>http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com/


Russ, did you use an AIS lens or one that will meter to utilize TTL? When I use my kit lens that meters, it works fine regardless of what group B is. The problem with a lens that does not meter is that I think the camera in commander mode does not know if there are any flashes in the groups so it assumes that there are flashes in both groups and will want the information required for both groups to work properly, in my case, my AIS lens does not provide metering information so if any of the groups is set to TTL, it wont work because the camera does not have the information it needs for TTL to work properly. When I have group A set to M and group B set to M or -- it does not need any metering information to work so it just tells the flash to fire at the power set in the commander (D90 in my case).

Of course this is just from my limited experience playing with the flash and the conclusion I drew from it. Hopefully, someone can confirm or reject my findings. You said earlier that you do not have a lens that does not meter, maybe someone else can try it out and see how it works for them.

Kyle
http://picasaweb.google.com/kyleyu

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberThu 23-Oct-08 03:12 AM
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#13. "RE: Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"
In response to Reply # 12


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>>>Thanks to everyone who responded, I figured it out.
>The
>>>problem was that group B was in TTL mode and i guess
>when its
>>>like that, the camera is expecting to be able to
>meter. So
>>>group B needs to be in -- or M mode instead of TTL or
>AA mode
>>>for it to work in wireless non-TTL mode.
>>
>>I'm not sure that is correct.
>>
>>I set my D200 in Commander mode, with Group A in Manual
>set at
>>1/4th power, and Group B in TTL. Then, I set my SB-600 on
>a
>>stand in Remote mode with Group A.
>>
>>The SB-600 fired and the power was adjustable from the
>>commander as it should be.
>>
>>Then, I added an SB-800 in Remote mode with Group B
>selected,
>>and it fired in TTL mode and its power was adjustable up
>and
>>down with the flash compensation on the Commander setting
>for
>>Group B, as it should.
>>
>>So unless your D90 works differently than my D200, I
>still
>>think something else is causing you your problems.
>>
>>Russ
>>http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/
>>http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com/
>
>
>Russ, did you use an AIS lens or one that will meter to
>utilize TTL?

No, and that was my point. I was thinking it had to be your AIS lens causing the problem, and that by setting the other group to Manual mode, you fixed the problem.

>When I use my kit lens that meters, it works fine
>regardless of what group B is. The problem with a lens that
>does not meter is that I think the camera in commander mode
>does not know if there are any flashes in the groups so it
>assumes that there are flashes in both groups and will want
>the information required for both groups to work properly, in
>my case, my AIS lens does not provide metering information so
>if any of the groups is set to TTL, it wont work because the
>camera does not have the information it needs for TTL to work
>properly. When I have group A set to M and group B set to M or
>-- it does not need any metering information to work so it
>just tells the flash to fire at the power set in the commander
>(D90 in my case).

That sounds plausible. I think you would have problems if either Group were set to TTL since the camera knows it can't meter a TTL preflash monitoring pulse, so it doesn't let you even try to use one.

Russ
http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/
http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com/

  

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yoose Registered since 23rd Sep 2007Thu 23-Oct-08 03:21 AM
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#14. "RE: Can I use my SB600 in remote manual mode with D90 and AIS lens?"
In response to Reply # 13


Tucson, US
          

>No, and that was my point. I was thinking it had to be your
>AIS lens causing the problem, and that by setting the other
>group to Manual mode, you fixed the problem.

Russ,

I think I just read your reply wrong. I thought you meant to say something else and perhaps I was unclear in my statement. I didn't mean to make it seem like it was a problem for all lenses. I meant to say for my situation, i.e. using an non-metering lens, that certain settings are required to use the SB-600 in wireless non-TTL mode.

>
>That sounds plausible. I think you would have problems if
>either Group were set to TTL since the camera knows it can't
>meter a TTL preflash monitoring pulse, so it doesn't let you
>even try to use one.
>
>Russ
>http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/
>http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com/

correct, i just tried using group B and setting A to TTL and same problem, switched A back to -- and it worked. Thanks for your input in this.

Kyle
http://picasaweb.google.com/kyleyu

  

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