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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Nikon Speedlights & Lighting topic #359
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Subject: "Understanding the SB-28" Previous topic | Next topic
MoX Basic MemberSun 23-Sep-01 05:24 PM
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"Understanding the SB-28"


Toronto, CA
          

Very shortly (hopefully) I will be purchasing a Nikon F5 as well as an SB-28 flash. I have read a lot about this flash and know it's different modes and how they work. However, there are still a few things I am uncertain of. Firstly, if you have the Sb-28 on Normal sync (using matrix metering and on Program mode) will the F5 automatically chose the correct shutter from 1/60s to 1/250s (the range of shutter speeds in Normal sync)? Or, must you slect a sutter manually from 1/60s to 1/250s? Same thing with the slow sync. Will the F5 automaticcaly chose the sutter from 30s to 1/250s, or must you set it automatically. Overall, does the F5 automatically select the right sutter speed within the range of sutter speeds in the mode you're using. (Slow or Normal)

Lastly, I don't understand when you should use the certain modes! When should you use rear curtain sync? When should you use front curtain sync? (I know to use slow sync for dark situations, and normal for any available light situations).
-Please Explain!

thanks

-Michael
------------------------------
http://www.photo.net/photodb/presentation?presentation_id=144194

  

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Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Understanding the SB-28
jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources
23rd Sep 2001
1
Reply message RE: Understanding the SB-28
AlanC
26th Sep 2001
2
Reply message RE: Understanding the SB-28
MoX
26th Sep 2001
3
     Reply message RE: Understanding the SB-28
Ed
26th Sep 2001
4
          Reply message RE: Understanding the SB-28
MoX
27th Sep 2001
5
               Reply message RE: Understanding the SB-28
linuxizer
27th Sep 2001
6
                    Reply message RE: Understanding the SB-28
jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources
27th Sep 2001
7
                         Reply message RE: Understanding the SB-28
linuxizer
27th Sep 2001
8
                              Reply message RE: Understanding the SB-28
jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources
28th Sep 2001
9
                                   Reply message RE: Understanding the SB-28
jjussi
30th Sep 2001
10
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linuxizer
30th Sep 2001
11
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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources
30th Sep 2001
12
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linuxizer
30th Sep 2001
13
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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources
01st Oct 2001
14
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linuxizer
04th Oct 2001
15
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jjussi
04th Oct 2001
16
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linuxizer
04th Oct 2001
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jjussi
05th Oct 2001
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05th Oct 2001
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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberSun 23-Sep-01 09:03 PM
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#1. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 0


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

It is a joy ride. Both the camera and the SB-28 manuals have all the answers you are seeking. They couple together so well you can concentrate just on framing and composition. Nikon is famous for its TTL flash since the advent of the FE2. It has been perfected beyond my wildest expectations with the SB-28/F5 combo.
3D Multisensor balanced fill flash (with D type lenses) is the best mode for me so far. The only bad news is that you will soon find yourself wanting a bracket to position the flash always above the lens and avoid shadows behind your subjects.
Here some recent samples of my favorite subjects.
Have a great time
JRP (Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) My profile
Previous photographic journey, before Nikonians: A Brief Love Story

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy and the product catalog of the Photo Pro Shop

  

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AlanC Basic MemberWed 26-Sep-01 07:48 PM
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#2. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 0


UK
          

As the name implies, rear curtain sync fires the flash just before the shutter closes. You'd normally use this mode if you're photographing a fast moving subject at a slow shutter speed. The effect you get is rather like cartoon "whizz lines": there's a blur from the motion, but the subject appears sharp at the end of the blur since it's frozen by the flash.

If you use normal front curtain sync in the same situation you freeze the subject at the start of the exposure so the motion blur overlaps the subject: not what you want.

Hope that's some help,

Alan.

  

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MoX Basic MemberWed 26-Sep-01 09:48 PM
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#3. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 2


Toronto, CA
          

LAST EDITED ON Sep-26-01 AT 11:39 PM (GMT)

Thanks, that did help.

So, if i'm not mistaken, you use normal sync when shooting in normal lighting conditions. You use slow sync when shooting in very low light conditions. (pitch black) You use rear curtain sync when photographing moving objects, and for stationary use front curtain?

Wouldn't it be good just to leave the flash on 'Rear, Slow' sync all the time to satisfy all situations?

Also, when using the flash on slow sync, will it always use a slow sutter? Or would it also use sutter speeds such as 1/60 or 1/250s if it better suits the situation? (Does it basically extend the sutter range of normal sync)?




-Michael
------------------------------
http://www.photo.net/photodb/presentation?presentation_id=144194

  

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Ed Basic MemberWed 26-Sep-01 11:07 PM
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#4. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 3


US
          

I posted some basics on sync speed here a while ago. Please follow this link:

http://www.nikonians.org/dcforum/DCForumID7/148.html#2

> You use slow sync when shooting in very low light conditions.

Not really. Slow sync just means using a slow shutter speed with flash, that's all. In aperture-priority mode, non-slow-sync mode limits your shutter speeds between 1/60 and 1/250 (F5, F100, etc.) and 1/60 and 1/125 (N80, N65, etc.). If you need to capture the ambient light exposure, you either go Manual mode and set the shutter speed yourself, or set your camera/flash to slow-sync. This will allow aperture-priority and program mode to go below 1/60 to take in more ambient light. The danger is getting the background blurred due to camera shake. So using slow-sync depends on the situation.

> You use rear curtain sync when photographing moving
> objects, and for stationary use front curtain?


Only if you want to capture the blur of the moving object behind the flash exposure. I also use rear-curtain sync when photographing a group of people. People tend to move after they see the flash go off. When I'm using a slow shutter speed (slow-sync), I'd like people to be still until the whole exposure is made. Putting the camera/flash in rear-sync ensures the flash go off at the end of the long exposure.

> Wouldn't it be good just to leave the flash on 'Rear,
> Slow' sync all the time to satisfy all situations?


On 'Rear', maybe. On 'Slow', it depends. I once took a whole roll for a wedding in 'Rear-sync' mode, but since I used 1/125 shutter speed, it didn't really matter. So the rear-sync effects become evident only with long exposures.

> when using the flash on slow sync, will it always use a slow sutter?

Depends on the level of ambient light. The dimmer it is, the slower the shutter speed.

> Or would it also use sutter speeds such as 1/60 or
> 1/250s if it better suits the situation? (Does it basically
> extend the sutter range of normal sync)?


Yes to both questions. When you switch to slow-sync, the lower-limit of your shutter speed extends below 1/60 to whatever the camera's meter says should be the correct shutter speed for the aperture you're using based on the ambient light level. Basically, you'd get the same shutter speed/aperture combination with slow-sync as if you didn't have the flash on. The meter dictates the shutter speed. With non-slow sync, the camera limits itself between 1/60 and 1/250.

Ed



Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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MoX Basic MemberThu 27-Sep-01 01:03 AM
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#5. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 4


Toronto, CA
          

So, if i were to shoot in rear sync or front sync I wouldn't notice a difference in the photographs? The only time I'd notice the difference is if I were to use rear sync while photographing a moving object (with a slow sutter), rather than front sync? The rear sync will create a streak behind the object, whereas the front sync would create a streak in front of the object?

-Michael
------------------------------
http://www.photo.net/photodb/presentation?presentation_id=144194

  

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linuxizer Basic MemberThu 27-Sep-01 02:23 AM
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#6. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 5


Birmingham, US
          

Good question. I have an additional question to add, based on yours:
Why, if using rear sync produces equal results to front-curtain sync in normal situations, and corrects motion blur situations, does the camera default to front-curtain sync? Does it not like having to sync to the rear curtain? Is there some obscure manufacturing reason that no one knows? A historical one? Or is there a more technical, logical, photographer's definition?

Thanks,
Ari

  

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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberThu 27-Sep-01 03:26 AM
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#7. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 6


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

LAST EDITED ON Sep-27-01 AT 04:29 AM (GMT)

As ED correctly said: it depends ...

REAR SYNC:
When in normal flash sync, the SB-28 flashes right at the beginning of the front shutter curtain travel, when it opens, before the second curtain closes.
If you are trying to shoot moving subjects at slow shutter speeds, they may appear unnatural, like if frozen by the flash appear behind or within the blurred movement.
When the camera is set to rear-curtain flash sync, the light burst from the flash comes at the end of the exposure, as the shutter curtain is closing. This creates the effect of the moving subject being in front of the blurred action. A good example of this can be created by shooting a moving car at night.
My F5 sets itself automatically to rear sync in these instances, both at P and A program modes.

SLOW SYNC:
This is used to prevent dark backgrounds, underexposed, under low light flash photography. The intention is to produce images with a well exposed foreground and background. I don´t do it unless with a tripod or the background will show my not so steady shooting at slow shutter speeds, specially with long lenses.

Have a great time
JRP (Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) My profile, My Gallery
Previous photographic journey, before Nikonians: A Brief Love Story

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy and the product catalog of the Photo Pro Shop

  

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linuxizer Basic MemberThu 27-Sep-01 12:00 PM
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#8. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 7


Birmingham, US
          

I understand what each does, JRP, I just want to know why front-curtain sync is considered "normal"? Why not use rear-curtain sync all the time? Is there any situation where normal sync produces better results?

Thanks,
Ari

BTW I think it's really cool that your F5 automatically changes to rear-curtain sync in certain situations. Quite an amazing camera, that.

  

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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberFri 28-Sep-01 01:29 AM
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#9. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 8


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

You want blurred objects in your pictures all the time?
Then that´s normal for you. Why not? It´s just that it is not for most photographers; that´s all.
Have a great time
JRP (Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) My profile, My Gallery
Previous photographic journey, before Nikonians: A Brief Love Story

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy and the product catalog of the Photo Pro Shop

  

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jjussi Basic MemberSun 30-Sep-01 10:31 AM
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#10. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 9


KLAUKKALA, FI
          

>You want blurred objects in your
>pictures all the time?

I think that Ari ment that why system don't use always rear sync WITH-OUT slow mode. So shutter speed is 1/60 - 1/250 and flash fires just end of picture taking. Not more or less blurred than what "normal" is now..

--
© Jussi Jääskeläinen from Finland
All picture what are posted to www.nikonians.org

© Jussi Jääskeläinen from Finland
All photos posted to nikonians

  

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linuxizer Basic MemberSun 30-Sep-01 12:58 PM
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#11. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 10


Birmingham, US
          

That's exactly what I meant, Jussi. So the answer is that there's no disadvantage to using rear-sync all the time? I'm sorely tempted to leaving my camera this way, but if, as JRP says (although I think he meant with rear-sync as well), it will produce blurred pics, than of course I don't want to do it.

Ciao,
Ari

  

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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberSun 30-Sep-01 03:41 PM
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#12. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 11


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

Ari:
There is nothing like eperimentation. You may find out that avoiding common conventions may indeed help to produce better images. And even if you don't, you will have had the chance to.... Have a great time
JRP (Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) My profile, My Gallery
Previous photographic journey, before Nikonians: A Brief Love Story

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy and the product catalog of the Photo Pro Shop

  

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linuxizer Basic MemberSun 30-Sep-01 10:36 PM
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#13. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 12


Birmingham, US
          

Actually, I'm just trying to be lazy in the right way--by better understanding my camera. By leaving it in rear-curtain sync all the time, I can hopefully avoid the effect in a picture I took recently, where my brother's girlfriend and he were laughing, she flung her head down, and there was a blur where her head was. Nevermind. I just looked at that sentence. I guess the rear-curtain sync would have fixed her head down, with only her hair showing. Maybe that's why front-curtain sync is considered "standard"? Anyway, I plan on using rear-curtain for awhile and seeing any disadvantages that arise. Thanks for the help.
Ari

  

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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberMon 01-Oct-01 12:28 AM
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#14. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 13


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

Ari:
Let us know how it goes and show us some samples of your experimentation.
Have a great time
JRP (Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) My profile, My Gallery
Previous photographic journey, before Nikonians: A Brief Love Story

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy and the product catalog of the Photo Pro Shop

  

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linuxizer Basic MemberThu 04-Oct-01 10:53 AM
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#15. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 14


Birmingham, US
          

It appears that my N65 refuses to do only rear-curtain sync. When I put it in rear-sync mode, it also adds slow-sync, so I can't show any examples. However, I did read in John Shaw's Nature Photography that he uses rear-curtain sync to avoid scaring animals and making them flinch in the picture, as the flas doesn't go off until immideatly before the exposure ends.

I guess I'll have to wait until I get a new flash or camera before I can find out the disadvantages to rear-sync flash all the time.

Ciao,
Ari

  

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jjussi Basic MemberThu 04-Oct-01 12:30 PM
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#16. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 15


KLAUKKALA, FI
          

>It appears that my N65 refuses
>to do only rear-curtain sync.

How about S-mode? You choose speed 1/125 and flash is fired at end of frame taking... OK! that point camera chooses wides aperature but...
If you choose M-mode and right (wanted) aperature FLASH will follow your choises and adjust itself to right settings... Just remember check from flash-back-screen that you are on not over distant scale... Don't mind if flash says "minimum 1.5 meter" and you are at 0.7 meter from subject... It's TTL! I have done pictures from 10 cm. when flash says 1 meter...

---> No problem!!!

--
© Jussi Jääskeläinen from Finland
All picture what are posted to www.nikonians.org

© Jussi Jääskeläinen from Finland
All photos posted to nikonians

  

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linuxizer Basic MemberThu 04-Oct-01 10:55 PM
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#17. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 16


Birmingham, US
          

S-mode? Why would shutter priority work? The N65 has a separate button for flash settings. Plus, it can't do 1/125sec flash-sync...it maxes out at 1/90 .

Confused,
Ari

  

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jjussi Basic MemberFri 05-Oct-01 06:55 AM
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#18. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 17


KLAUKKALA, FI
          

>S-mode?

Yes!

>Why would shutter priority work?

Why not? It works on F70, F90x... In F70, I put Flash (SB-28) on and select REAR from camera, that point camera put SLOW-sync on. Then I change mode to S and SLOW disapears because I choose 1/125 as a wanted speed. Camera chooses widest aperature and says that picture would be under exposured, I don't mind that, because it (camera) don't know that I am using flash. When I fires Flash (because it's TTL) give wanted light but on REAR-sync mode!!!

>The N65 has
>a separate button for flash
>settings.

Allmost like F70.

>Plus, it can't
>do 1/125sec flash-sync...it maxes out
>at 1/90 .

So, that 1/90 is then the maximum speed what you can use...

>Confused,

Don't be, just test it!

--
© Jussi Jääskeläinen from Finland
All picture what are posted to www.nikonians.org

© Jussi Jääskeläinen from Finland
All photos posted to nikonians

  

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linuxizer Basic MemberFri 05-Oct-01 10:54 AM
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#19. "RE: Understanding the SB-28"
In response to Reply # 18


Birmingham, US
          

Ah....I understand. You merely eliminate the slow-sync part by specifying the speed. Clever . This should work, even with the built-in pop-up flash.

Thanks,
Ari

  

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