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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Nikon Speedlights & Lighting topic #25738
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Subject: "Bracket Help for SB-800" Previous topic | Next topic
bowmah Basic MemberThu 20-Sep-07 07:05 PM
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"Bracket Help for SB-800"


CA
          

I was looking the Demp bracket and the price was attractive, then I realized that the speedlight is not horizontal (either shooting portrait or landscape shots) once mounted on the bracket! Doh! So the quest continues.

I love the lighting from the SB-800 when bounced + built-in white card. When shooting vertically, there is a soft shadow to the side of the subject. I am looking for a bracket that will move the flash head above the camera so that the speedlight can shoot in the same position as when the camera is shooting in the horizontal position. Hope that made sense.

Most brackets that do this cost quite a bit. Is there no alternative to spending hundreds of dollars (bracket + twist plate + cord etc...) to get this same effect? I can hand hold the speedlight but that makes it difficult for composition.

Any tips?


Bowmah
--
"What we have to learn, we learn by doing."
"Happiness is not having what you want but wanting what you have."

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
michaelhager
20th Sep 2007
1
Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
cZcaunan
20th Sep 2007
2
Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
bowmah
20th Sep 2007
3
     Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
cZcaunan
20th Sep 2007
4
          Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
bowmah
21st Sep 2007
5
               Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
makeupmagic
02nd May 2010
23
Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources.
21st Sep 2007
6
Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
LATENTA
21st Sep 2007
7
Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
RockyIII Gold Member
21st Sep 2007
8
Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
LATENTA
21st Sep 2007
9
Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
bowmah
21st Sep 2007
10
     Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
LATENTA
21st Sep 2007
11
          Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
bowmah
21st Sep 2007
12
               Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
LATENTA
21st Sep 2007
13
                    Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
bowmah
21st Sep 2007
14
Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources.
22nd Sep 2007
15
     Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
RockyIII Gold Member
23rd Sep 2007
16
          Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources.
23rd Sep 2007
17
Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
rselby
24th May 2010
25
Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography
23rd Sep 2007
18
Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
bowmah
23rd Sep 2007
19
     Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography
23rd Sep 2007
20
          Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
bowmah
23rd Sep 2007
21
               Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography
24th Sep 2007
22
                    Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
Ray Dockrey
03rd May 2010
24
                         Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography
25th May 2010
26
Reply message RE: Bracket Help for SB-800
ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography
25th May 2010
27
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Ellis Feibush Silver Member
27th May 2010
28

michaelhager Registered since 15th Feb 2007Thu 20-Sep-07 09:27 PM
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#1. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 0


Fountain Inn, US
          

Take a look at Alzo Digital (http://alzodigital.com/online_store/digital_camera_flip_flash_bracket.htm) I use this one with the tilt umbrella holder bracket. (This bracket will also fit on a standard light stand.) It's not cost prohibuitive at $85.00 and is well built and sturdy.

C. Michael Hager
Your most important piece of photo equipment is built into your face.
www.cmhager.com/Content/photo.shtml

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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cZcaunan Registered since 02nd Mar 2007Thu 20-Sep-07 09:50 PM
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#2. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

Check this flash bracket that I made out of an old Vivitar pistol grip, Stroboframe Flip 2000 and SC17 cord.

http://philcanam.com/Gallery.html

Total cost is less than $150. Made 5 more for friends. Very stable.
Email if you have questions.


Conrado
URLs: http://definingmoments.us
http://caunan.com
http://philcanam.com

Conrado
URL: http://philcanam.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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bowmah Basic MemberThu 20-Sep-07 10:22 PM
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#3. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 2


CA
          

Thanks for the link Michael. That unit looks great except a little big for my type of shooting.

@Conrado: How does moving the flash a few inches forward affect low light focusing? I thought the SB-800 was supposed to be placed in the same plane as the camera?


Bowmah
--
"What we have to learn, we learn by doing."
"Happiness is not having what you want but wanting what you have."

  

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cZcaunan Registered since 02nd Mar 2007Thu 20-Sep-07 11:56 PM
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#4. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 3


US
          

From my experience, it has no effect at all. I have been using this unit since the N90 days. For the D200, I believe the AF-Assist Illuminator is disabled when the SB-800 is attached (hot shoe or the SC-17). If you are in the Toronto area, you may contact my brother who has one of this gadget for his D70 and SB-600 so that you can see and try it.

BTW, I am not trying to sell or convince you to get one; just giving out ideas (cheaper) to help you eliminate those side shadows.

Conrado
URLs: http://definingmoments.us
http://caunan.com
http://philcanam.com

Conrado
URL: http://philcanam.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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bowmah Basic MemberFri 21-Sep-07 12:32 AM
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#5. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 4


CA
          

Thanks Conrado. At this point, I am debating over hand holding the SB-800 and using Commander Mode on the D70s to fire the remote unit. Or perhaps getting a flash flip unit and making a little white card to add some direct light when the speedlight is bouncing horizontally.

I especially like the way the image turns out when the flash is horizontal bouncing with the built in white card. I think the camera flip brackets will do the trick but most of them seem very large and clunky. Also, for my vertical shots, they are most often slightly tilted as well. I wonder how Custom Brackets CB Junior and Digital Pro deal with this. Is it 0 degrees OR 90 degrees hard lock? Or can the camera be rotated anywhere in the middle?


Bowmah
--
"What we have to learn, we learn by doing."
"Happiness is not having what you want but wanting what you have."

  

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makeupmagic Registered since 12th Apr 2010Sun 02-May-10 08:45 PM
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#23. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 5


Scottsdale, US
          

I live in North Scottsdale, I would love to see that bracket, I have been coveting the Pro M custom bracket kit since I first saw one but the price is exorbitant! I use the Nikon D300 with the SB-800.
Marilyn

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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Charter MemberFri 21-Sep-07 12:49 AM
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#6. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 0


Phoenix, US
          

Check RRS at:

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/index.asp?FSCat=1&url=IND&iFromFeatured=1

for their new WPF-1 flash bracket. I have one and it is very light (11 ounces), portable, folds flat for storage and keeps the speedlight head directly over the lens in the proper position for landscape and portrait mode shooting.

Expensive? A bit. Convenient? Very!

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

  

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LATENTA Registered since 21st Feb 2007Fri 21-Sep-07 01:10 PM
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#7. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 6


US
          

..take another look at the Flip-it (Demb)unit. To go from landscape to portrait with most SBs is just a
90 degree rotaion of the flash head. You can use about any, or no, bracket. If that's too slow, look at the 'Double Flip-it".
I use a cheap bracket because I'm afraid of hanging all that weight on my hot shoe.
An SB800 is real scary on my F3 hot shoe.


I had a darkroom. Now I have a PC. PC smells better.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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RockyIII Gold Member Nikonian since 27th May 2006Fri 21-Sep-07 01:16 PM
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#8. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 6


Raleigh, US
          

Hal,

When you mount an SB-800 on the RRS WPF-1 bracket, how do you command it? Do you use an SC-28 or SC-29 cord to connect the camera to the speedlight, do you use your SU-800, or what? Also, do you use an additional adapter on top of the RRS bracket? I see that RRS has a special adapter which is used to mount the SC-29.

Regarding the use of the SC-29 with the WPF-1, without the SC-29 will the SB-800 focus assist light work properly with the flash up higher and especially with the bracket flipped for portrait mode, in which case the focus assist light will be off to the side?

  

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LATENTA Registered since 21st Feb 2007Fri 21-Sep-07 05:19 PM
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#9. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 8


US
          

I don't know about Hal, but i use a generic Nikon hot-shoe to
hot-shoe cable that remotes all Nikon contacts.

Jim



I had a darkroom. Now I have a PC. PC smells better.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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bowmah Basic MemberFri 21-Sep-07 05:29 PM
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#10. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 9


CA
          

@Latenta: I see that the Demp flip is easy to use. Unfortunately, I was hoping for something that would bring the flash unit above the lens to get rid of side shadows and be perpendicular to the shooting angle.

Which Nikon cords do what? Why did Nikon come out with more than 1 cord? Any tips would be great. Thanks!


Bowmah
--
"What we have to learn, we learn by doing."
"Happiness is not having what you want but wanting what you have."

  

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LATENTA Registered since 21st Feb 2007Fri 21-Sep-07 06:30 PM
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#11. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

I think Nikon has two cords that remote all SB600/800 functions
the SC-28 and the SC-29. The one with the focus assist
light is more expensive. They are both designed to fit between the hot-shoe of the camera and the the cold shoe of a flash bracket, providing a hot-shoe for the flash.

I have a non-Nikon cable without the AF assit light. Since the AF
assit light on my flash is always pointing forward, I have not noticed any problems. However, I can see that macro shots would
possibly benefit from an on camera focus assit light.






I had a darkroom. Now I have a PC. PC smells better.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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bowmah Basic MemberFri 21-Sep-07 06:45 PM
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#12. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 11


CA
          

Latenta, which bracket or system do you have to bring the speedlight off camera? Have any tips & feedback?


Bowmah
--
"What we have to learn, we learn by doing."
"Happiness is not having what you want but wanting what you have."

  

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LATENTA Registered since 21st Feb 2007Fri 21-Sep-07 08:13 PM
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#13. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 12


US
          

I just have a cheap eBay "L" bracket ($48.00, including SB-28-like cable and two cold shoes).
The next one I buy would be the Deb. I think his stuff is really well
thought out..





I had a darkroom. Now I have a PC. PC smells better.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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bowmah Basic MemberFri 21-Sep-07 08:27 PM
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#14. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 13


CA
          

The only issue I have with the Demp bracket (or it may not even be an issue at all) is the speedlight does not point straight up in either position. It's sort of fire off to the side.


Bowmah
--
"What we have to learn, we learn by doing."
"Happiness is not having what you want but wanting what you have."

  

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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Charter MemberSat 22-Sep-07 03:46 PM
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#15. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 8


Phoenix, US
          

Rocky:

Yes, I use the SC-29 cord (SC-28 will also work) and the special adapter (FA-29: $20) when mounting an SB800 on the RRS WPF-1 bracket. It makes for a very secure and manageable configuration. Check out the pictures on page 45 of the current RRS catalog.

You are right, the SB800 AF Assist light is off to the left side a bit when in portrait mode. I have not had enough experience with this configuration in low light to be able to answer your questions accurately.

Also, I have not yet tried it without a cord. I do not own a camera with a CLS compatible popup speedlight and I suspect the use of the SU800 might be marginal unless in a very small room with walls and ceilings for bouncing the IR signals. Perhaps somebody else can answer this question?

The RRS WPF-1 bracket places the center of the SB800 speedlight head over the center of the camera lens and in the proper orientation: portrait or landscape. The bracket also folds up very small and can be easily carried in a pocket. The unit does require the use of a RRS L-bracket for optimum functionality.

Both of the articulated joints have spring loaded, push button detents on them so there is no fear of anything collapsing and pinching fingers when handling the configuration. It takes a very deliberate action to collapse the unit.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

  

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RockyIII Gold Member Nikonian since 27th May 2006Sun 23-Sep-07 06:51 PM
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#16. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 15


Raleigh, US
          

Hal,

Thank you very much. One more question:

Is there a distance from camera to subject at which mounting the speedlight on a bracket gives no better results than having the speedlight mounted on the camera hotshoe?

  

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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Charter MemberSun 23-Sep-07 07:37 PM
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#17. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 16


Phoenix, US
          

Rocky:

Bracket versus hotshoe mounting will affect the location of the shadows cast by the subject. So long as the speedlight lens is above the camera lens, these shadows will fall behind the subject where they are not usually a problem. As you already know, tilting a camera/speedlight into the portrait mode while leaving the speedlight in the hotshoe, results in shadows cast on either side of the subject, depending on which way you rotate the configuration.

Another advantage of bracket versus hot shoe mounting is that it increases the distance from the center of the speedlight to the center of the lens. This has the desirable effect of extending the shooting range without worrying about the dreaded red eye images.

Small, point and shoot pocket cameras have speedlights an inch or less above the lens. Subjects looking into the lens within range of these speedlights will invariably have red eyes. The greater the distance between the lens and the speedlight, the greater the shooting distance without red eye.

Draw a scale diagram of this and see for your self. Remember that the angle of reflection of the speedlight off the subject's retinas will equal the angle of incidence. You will quickly see what occurs. At closer subject to lens distances using a bracket, the reflected light from subject retinas falls below the camera lens and is not a problem. At some more distant subject to lens point, where red eye again becomes an issue, the range with will exceed the speedlight's reach as a function of its guide number or power. At this point, the image will likely be underexposed and the red eye will not be too visible.

Hope this helps,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

  

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rselby Registered since 26th Feb 2006Mon 24-May-10 08:48 AM
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#25. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 6


Modesto, US
          

Excellent flash bracket and folds flat when in storage. It's difficult to beat RRS products, you do get what you pay for.

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberSun 23-Sep-07 08:19 PM
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#18. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

Take a look at the CB Junior at http://www.custombrackets.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=146

It lets you rotate the camera CCW which in turn allows the use of the alternate shutter release button and keeps your left hand under the lens where it should be. This kit costs about $114 in you local camera store.

The RRS WPF-1 Wedding Pro Flash Bracket at http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/Itemdesc.asp?ic=WPF%2D1&eq=&Tp= does the same thing and in addition, it folds flat to fit in your bag. But it co$t$ lot$ more.

Russ
http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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bowmah Basic MemberSun 23-Sep-07 09:07 PM
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#19. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 18


CA
          

I was considering the CB Junior until I noticed that in the portrait position, the flash unit is also in the portrait position. I do prefer the light source when the flash head is in the horizontal position (bounce) with the white card pulled out (SB-800).

So I am now considering the camera flip instead of a flash flip unit. Anyone else in the same boat and gave give some tips?


Bowmah
--
"What we have to learn, we learn by doing."
"Happiness is not having what you want but wanting what you have."

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberSun 23-Sep-07 09:42 PM
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#20. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 19


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>I was considering the CB Junior until I noticed that in the
>portrait position, the flash unit is also in the portrait
>position. I do prefer the light source when the flash head
>is in the horizontal position (bounce) with the white card
>pulled out (SB-800).
>
>So I am now considering the camera flip instead of a flash
>flip unit. Anyone else in the same boat and gave give some
>tips?

All the camera flip models are heavy. A bracket needs to be 16 ounces or less for me to be able to handle it for a whole wedding. My CB Junior is 17 oz and that is just a bit too heavy, so I only use it for the formals and procession. Then I switch to the Gary Fong Light Sphere II for the reception.

The second problem with camera flip models is that the flash stays oriented horizontally when the camera is oriented vertically. This can lead to poor flash coverage with wide angle lenses.

Also, you normally don't want the white card pulled out on the SB800 unless you are outdoors. Indoors, just point the flash at 60 degrees forward and part of the light will go direct and the rest will bounce off the ceiling. If you need a little more light to go direct to the subject attach the diffuser.

With a really high ceiling indoors, you might want the white card pulled out.

Russ
http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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bowmah Basic MemberSun 23-Sep-07 11:29 PM
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#21. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 20


CA
          

Thanks for all the great feedback. So if you shouldn't be using the white card indoors AND you want the speedlight head to rotate with the lens, then am I back to looking at the CB Junior?

The more I learn, the more choices there seem to be.

CB junior will remove side shadows for sure. Demp is lower cost and can add more diffused light plus you can control direct light with the flip. So many decisions

So, which will be be. Demp flit it + diffuser or CB Junior for the SB-800. Which Would you go with and why? For me, I am trying to find the best light possible for shooting indoors where there is a ceiling to bounce (mostly trying to get rid of the side shadows when in portrait).


Bowmah
--
"What we have to learn, we learn by doing."
"Happiness is not having what you want but wanting what you have."

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberMon 24-Sep-07 03:26 AM
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#22. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 21


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>So, which will be be. Demp flit it + diffuser or CB Junior
>for the SB-800. Which Would you go with and why? For me, I
>am trying to find the best light possible for shooting
>indoors where there is a ceiling to bounce (mostly trying to
>get rid of the side shadows when in portrait).

I guess I would say you should get both.

I use a Gary Fong Light Sphere when I want more diffused light, so I really don't know much about the Flip-It, except that one of the photographers in my studio uses it and swears by it.

Occassionally, I use my bracket and the LS together. That really works well, but it is top heavy and difficult to use. I'm sure you could use the flip-it on top of the bracket as well.

Russ
http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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Ray Dockrey Registered since 02nd Sep 2007Mon 03-May-10 02:27 PM
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#24. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 22


Mustang, US
          

Hey Russ, a quick question about the Junior and it may be a silly one. When you have the camera in portrait orientation how do you hold the camera. I know the left hand goes under the lens like normal but does the right hand hold the camera grip like normal also? This means you wouldn't use the bracket grip in the portrait orientation. Is this correct and again I apologize if this seems like an obvious answer.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberTue 25-May-10 01:54 PM
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#26. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 24


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>Hey Russ, a quick question about the Junior and it may be a
>silly one. When you have the camera in portrait orientation
>how do you hold the camera. I know the left hand goes under
>the lens like normal but does the right hand hold the camera
>grip like normal also? This means you wouldn't use the bracket
>grip in the portrait orientation. Is this correct and again I
>apologize if this seems like an obvious answer.

Hi Ray,

In general, with all brackets, you should never use the bracket grip when shooting. You should grip the camera the way you do without the grip. You use the bracket grip only for carrying the camera between shots.

When I go to vertical with the CB Junior, if there is no alternate release shutter, I use what I call the 'over the top' technique. That means I keep my right hand on the shutter button as I rotate the camera counterclockwise to the vertical position.

In my experience, this is the technique used by most professional photographers.

Russ
Nikonian Team Member
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberTue 25-May-10 05:14 PM
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#27. " RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu 27-May-10 01:07 AM by ScottChapin

Powder Springs, US
          

I am an RRS WPF-1 die hard fan. I've got two of them for shooting weddings. Expensive? Yes, but well well worth it.

I used to be in the "buy a new bracket of the year club". Now, I haven't bought a new one in some time, and don't plan too, unless I need to have three in service at the same time. Then it will be another WPF-1.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

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Ellis Feibush Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Sep 2009Thu 27-May-10 12:37 AM
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#28. "RE: Bracket Help for SB-800"
In response to Reply # 0


Summit, US
          

Take a look in the for sale forums. I have listed two excellent Custom brackets for sale that will move from horizontal to vertical and back again.

efeibush

  

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