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Subject: "Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600" Previous topic | Next topic
CLL Registered since 12th Jan 2007Fri 09-Feb-07 01:19 PM
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"Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600"


MY
          

I am new in DSLR and have recently bought a D80 and SB600.

I am learning to shoot in M mode and when I meter, I was taught to look at the light meter to gauge my exposure settings.

However when I am shooting indoors, (without the SB600) using a particular setting (ie 1/100 and f/5), the light meter shows that I am underexposing my shot and the flash sign will start blinking. After I attach the SB 600 and switch it on, using the same settings, I discover that despite the SB 600, the light meter still shows that I am underexposing my shot.

Having said that, the picture that I frame will not be that underexposed.

Is this what iTTL means? How then does one learn to meter with the SB600 on board?

I shoot using Centred Metering and for in doors, use iTTL.

I apreciate your comments and opinions in this matter.

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600
Exposure1
09th Feb 2007
1
Reply message RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600
CLL
09th Feb 2007
2
     Reply message RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600
Exposure1
09th Feb 2007
3
Reply message RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600
HBB Moderator
09th Feb 2007
4
Reply message RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600
Exposure1
09th Feb 2007
5
     Reply message RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600
CLL
09th Feb 2007
6
          Reply message RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600
HBB Moderator
10th Feb 2007
7
               Reply message RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600
Exposure1
10th Feb 2007
8
                    Reply message RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600
CLL
10th Feb 2007
9
                         Reply message RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600
HBB Moderator
11th Feb 2007
10

Exposure1 Registered since 08th May 2006Fri 09-Feb-07 01:36 PM
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#1. "RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

I use an SB800 and the blinking on the back of the flash (I think that's what you mean) will show maybe -1 meaning the shot is underexposed 1 stop.

ITTL meters "through the lens" (TTL) meaning your lens views the scene and the metering is done by light travel from the camera sensor, to the subject and back again to meter the scene. (Basically, although I am sure there is a better technical explanation form someone who has much more expertise than I) anyway, this is basically how ITTL works to get the flash out put needed.

If you are in Manual flash mode, then you are working off your subject to flash distance for proper flash output. IE: Indoors camera manually set to F5 @ 100 ISO then you determine flash output if flash is in manual mode based on flash to subject distance. If camera is set manually to F5 @ 100 ISO and you are in TTL indoors, the exposure will be set for you more automatically as compared to the previous scenario. (You may still need to adjust flash EV =/-for what you perceive to be the correcet exposure)

Perhaps one of our local experst here (there are quitre a few) can offer a better explanation.

DL Cleve, Oh

www.lorenzopics.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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CLL Registered since 12th Jan 2007Fri 09-Feb-07 01:55 PM
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#2. "RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600"
In response to Reply # 1


MY
          

Thank you for your explaination.

Does that mean that I can 'disregard' the electronic analog exposure display in regards to the 'prefered' exposure? Or, to frame the question in another way, does the electronic analog exposure readings take into account the presence of the flash when I shoot in M mode?

So, by looking at the histogram, I can adjust the final output of the picture with flash EV compensation?

I am sorry that I actually am raising more questions as I find this intriguing.

Thank you once again for the patience.


  

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Exposure1 Registered since 08th May 2006Fri 09-Feb-07 02:18 PM
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#3. "RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600"
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

When in M mode (are you talking M mode of flash and/or camera?) If M mode on camera and TTL on flash, than flash TTL will meter as was described. If M mode on camera and Manual(M) mode on flash, then you can calculate flash exposure based on flash to subject distance (see guide number in manual for respective ISO etc settings)

Don't confuse flash exposure and ambient exposure. When you mentioned in your earlier post that indoors you set your camera exposure to F5 @ ISO 100 you set the ambient light exposure as stated. Then you had flash on iTTL which metered the flash output.

As far as disregarding the electronic analog exposure display of "preferred" exposure, that is up to you if you think your photo looks good even though the flash may tell you it is underexposed, but I find with my Sb800 I do not get this underexposure warning unless I am sugnificantly underexposed.

DL Cleve, Oh

www.lorenzopics.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Charter MemberFri 09-Feb-07 03:21 PM
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#4. "RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600"
In response to Reply # 0


Phoenix, US
          

Chek:

Dominic is giving you good advice. Here is a procedure that will help you get proficient in manual mode.

1) Put your camera on a tripod and select an average scene that does not contain any intense bright spots or dark shadow areas. Camera to background distance of twelve feet or so works well. Include a subject that is midway between the camera and the background. I use a 2/3 life size marble head of Michelangelo's David on a pedestal.

2) Put your camera in the manual mode and select an aperture that gives you the desired depth of field, F/5.6 for example. Select a metering mode and do not change it for the rest of this procedure. Focus on the mid range subject and do not change it for the rest of this procedure.

3) Select a shutter speed that gives you the desired exposure, using the selected metering mode. Your meter will be reading the ambient illumination level at this metering mode.

4) Take a shot and record the camera settings used. (aperture, shutter, ISO, metering mode, etc.)

5) Now vary the shutter and aperture settings only using the camera's meter, leaving everything else alone. Take several shots at different settings and view the results. If the scene and the ambient illumination remain constant, you should see the depth of field vary. As aperture gets smaller (larger F numbers), depth of field will increase and shutter times will get longer. As aperture gets larger (smaller F numbers), depth of field will decrease and shutter times will get shorter.

6) Now select an aperture/shutter combination that gives you the depth of field you like and put the SB600 on your camera. You will not change the camera aperture and shutter settings for the next several shots.

7) Set the SB600 to manual mode and start at the M/1/1 setting, which is full power, and take a shot. Depending on your scene, you may have one or more overexposed subjects in the image. Don't panic.

8) Now select the M1/2 setting on the strobe and take another shot. The SB600 illumination will be one stop down from the prior shot. Check the image details for blown highlights and/or dark shadows.

9) Continue down the manual settings on the SB600 until you reach the M1/64 settings which will be six stops down from full power (M1/1).

10) One of these settings should produce an image with correct ambient light detail in the background and a foreground subject that will be nicely illuminated by the SB600.

Conclusion:

Your camera's meter is only measuring the ambient illumination levels, which you control with aperture and shutter settings. With the SB600 in manual mode, you are controlling its output and no TTL metering is involved.

Depending on the distance from the mid-range subject to the background, the SB600 may increase the background illumination a bit. If this happens, you can decrease the ambient light exposure by selecting a slightly shorter shutter time which will leave depth of field constant. You can also select a slightly smaller aperture, which will result in slightly greater depth of field while leaving shutter time constant.

Once you get comfortable with this procedure, you should have a solid idea of how to balance ambient and supplemental illumination levels. Stick with this procedure until you are confident that you understand what is happening. By using a constant scene and ambient illumination, and changing only one parameter or setting at a time, you can see what is occurring. If you change several things at once, it is very difficult to interpret the results.

From here, you can explore various combinations of settings on the camera and the SB600 to explore different way of balancing ambient and supplemental illumination. One of your goals will be to decide which illumination source (ambient of supplemental strobe) is to be primary and which is to be secondary. In the fully manual mode (camera and strobe) you have complete flexibility.

With a solid foundation here in the manual mode, you will be able to enter the automated, TTL modes with greater confidence.

I hope this helps you get started.

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

  

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Exposure1 Registered since 08th May 2006Fri 09-Feb-07 04:51 PM
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#5. "RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600"
In response to Reply # 4


US
          

As I said in a previous post "ask for an expert" and shall receive!

Great info as usual, Hal

DL Cleve, Oh

www.lorenzopics.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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CLL Registered since 12th Jan 2007Fri 09-Feb-07 08:50 PM
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#6. "RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600"
In response to Reply # 5


MY
          

Thank you so much for your information here.

It definately helps me understand better.

I am learning to shoot in M mode of the camera and am still using TTL on the flash. Have not been adventurous enough to try M flash yet.

Thank you once again, Dominic and Hal for your advice.

CLL, Malaysia

  

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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Charter MemberSat 10-Feb-07 12:21 AM
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#7. "RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600"
In response to Reply # 6


Phoenix, US
          

Chek:

As long as the camera or the strobe or both are in auto mode, it is more difficult to tell what is happening with overall exposure. Remember: Camera aperture and shutter control ambient illumination exposure and the SB600 controls supplemental illumination exposure. When both are in manual mode, as described above, it is much easier to see what occurs.

Take a deep breath, set your camera and strobe to manual and jump in!

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

  

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Exposure1 Registered since 08th May 2006Sat 10-Feb-07 04:18 PM
696 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#8. "RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600"
In response to Reply # 7


US
          

CHEK,

FYI:

The advice you receive cannot be any better than what comes from HBB.

DL Cleve, Oh

www.lorenzopics.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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CLL Registered since 12th Jan 2007Sat 10-Feb-07 09:28 PM
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#9. "RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600"
In response to Reply # 8


MY
          

It means I will have to go out of the 'comfort zone' and learn to fiddle with the strobe in manual as well in order to appreciate the strength of TTL.

Thank you once again, Hal and Dominic for taking your time to answer.

CLL, Malaysia

  

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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Charter MemberSun 11-Feb-07 01:01 AM
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#10. "RE: Learning to shoot in M mode with SB 600"
In response to Reply # 9


Phoenix, US
          

Chek:

As long as you have a single subject or group of subjects in the shot, TTL will work wonders if you are using the appropriate metering mode (spot, center weighted, Matrix). When you get more than one group of subjects in the scene, TTL may or may not work, depending on relative distances and subject reflectivities. At this point, you will need manual mode and one or more remote strobes for each group of subjects.

Your "Comfort Zone" will actually increase once you work through the manual mode exercises above because you will know when TTL will work and when manual is required. The beauty of digital is that you can "fiddle" in privacy at home and nobody else will ever see your early efforts.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

  

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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Nikon Speedlights & Lighting topic #20903 Previous topic | Next topic


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