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Subject: "A doubt about d-lighting and metering" Previous topic | Next topic
zhoncheng Registered since 03rd Jun 2008Tue 03-Jun-08 03:30 AM
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"A doubt about d-lighting and metering"


US
          

The manual said when using d-lighitng, you should use the matrix metering

What if I use central-weighted or spot metering? Will they mess up the picture?
Or the d-lighting only works under matrix metering?

I have a d60.

thanks

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: A doubt about d-lighting and metering
MotoMannequin Moderator
03rd Jun 2008
1
Reply message RE: A doubt about d-lighting and metering
zhoncheng
03rd Jun 2008
2
     Reply message RE: A doubt about d-lighting and metering
MotoMannequin Moderator
03rd Jun 2008
3
Reply message RE: A doubt about d-lighting and metering
nightcat
03rd Jun 2008
4
Reply message RE: A doubt about d-lighting and metering
MotoMannequin Moderator
03rd Jun 2008
5
     Reply message RE: A doubt about d-lighting and metering
nightcat
04th Jun 2008
6

MotoMannequin Moderator Awarded for his extraordinary skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 11th Jan 2006Tue 03-Jun-08 04:18 AM
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#1. "RE: A doubt about d-lighting and metering"
In response to Reply # 0


Livermore, CA, US
          

I think you mean using "Active D-Lighting" which isn't the same as using "D-Lighting". D-lighting is just a post-processing algorithm from Nikon that brightens shadows. Active D-Lighting is a kind of exposure mode that intentionally underexposes to protect against blown highlights, then applies d-lighting after the exposure because it knows the shadows will be too dark due to the underexposure.

To your question: If you use center weighted or spot metering, active d-lighting won't work as well, because it doesn't evaluate the entire frame to determine what the highlights are, therefore it can't protect them. Active D is a whiz-bang auto mode anyway, and if you're the type who wants to use spot metering, then you're probably also the type who wants to think about what you're doing. You should find little use for Active D. Just expose to protect the highlights! Underexposing and then brightening shadows is a recipe for increased noise.

Larry - a Bay Area Nikonian
My Nikonians gallery

www.tempered-light.com

  

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zhoncheng Registered since 03rd Jun 2008Tue 03-Jun-08 05:45 AM
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#2. "RE: A doubt about d-lighting and metering"
In response to Reply # 1


US
          

Yeap, I mean acitve d-lighting. If I understand you correctly, it only works under matrix metering?

  

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MotoMannequin Moderator Awarded for his extraordinary skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 11th Jan 2006Tue 03-Jun-08 02:59 PM
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#3. "RE: A doubt about d-lighting and metering"
In response to Reply # 2


Livermore, CA, US
          

>Yeap, I mean acitve d-lighting. If I understand you
>correctly, it only works under matrix metering?

I don't know how much more clear I can be, but I'll give it a try:

Active D is for people who don't want to worry about exposure. Spot & center weighted metering is for people who are actively thinking about exposure. You can't be both those people at the same time.

Active D will do something to your exposure in spot and center weighted metering, so in that respect it "works". But, whatever it does is unlikely to result in proper exposure so it's not that useful.

Now you've got the manual telling you that, and me telling you that twice. Does 1+1+1=3?

Larry - a Bay Area Nikonian
My Nikonians gallery

www.tempered-light.com

  

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nightcat Registered since 05th Mar 2006Tue 03-Jun-08 03:15 PM
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#4. "RE: A doubt about d-lighting and metering"
In response to Reply # 0


LaCrosse,WI, US
          

I've done a lot of work with Active d-lighting on the D300. I don't have a D60, so I can't be sure it works the same way. ADL "works" in all metering modes, in the sense that it MAY affect exposure. In my tests, when exposure was affected, the largest effects were in Matrix metering. I use ADL-norm with cw metering 6mm circle, almost constantly, for bird pics. Noise is not a problem, but if it was, and you shoot raw, you could turn off ADL in nikon software. ADL can't increase apparent noise in other raw converters. The big myth with ADL is that it underexposes an image. Not true. In wide dynamic range scenes, the camera has to decide whether to favor shadows or highlights. The default in the D300, and I would guess the D60, is to favor shadows, thus blowing out highlights. With ADL, you are telling the camera to favor the highlights. This reduces blown highlights. Then a custom tone curve is applied that slightly brightens shadows (only in jpgs/tifs and nikon software). You do not want to use ADL in manual exposure situations. Otherwise, I recommend you try it and see if it works for you.
Kraig

"The wisest follow their own directions" -Euripides
"I thought there would be more elephants" -C. Columbus

  

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MotoMannequin Moderator Awarded for his extraordinary skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 11th Jan 2006Tue 03-Jun-08 08:44 PM
8582 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#5. "RE: A doubt about d-lighting and metering"
In response to Reply # 4


Livermore, CA, US
          

>The big myth
>with ADL is that it underexposes an image. Not true.

There are plenty of examples posted in D300 forum of the nature "why is my D300 so noisy?" One I particularly remembered compared to another camera (D50) the D300 showed much more noise. That thread had what appeared to be an identical exposure but with lots of shadow noise on the D300 picture. Settings showed the D300 had a shutter speed twice as fast (1 stop underexposed) and active d was on. This wasn't a scene that had bright highlights. The same test run with active d off resulted in same exposure values for both cameras and a slight noise edge to D300. To me this is no "big myth" because I saw the pictures.

>shoot raw, you could turn off ADL in nikon software. ADL can't
>increase apparent noise in other raw converters.

ADL isn't a "you can change it later if you shoot raw" because if it underexposed the image then it's underexposed regardless of what raw converter you use. You'll need to bring up exposure somehow, whether it's d-lighting, shadow/highlights, exposure comp, curve, etc. and that will reveal less-than-ideal shadow noise performance.

For me, it comes down to this: On DSLRs that don't feature ADL, the proper technique is to expose to the right and not clip highlights, and if that exposure latitude resulted in too dark a picture then you need to extend your dynamic range somehow. The "somehow" might be a GND filter, or a bracket-and-combine with HDR, or expose for highlights and brighten shadows in post. What I use depends on the situation, the composition, and how much time I have to think about the shot. The last (expose and brighten later) is the lowest quality approach but also the simplest and best used for snapshot type pictures. ADL effectively does the same thing but automatically, so it's great for snapshooting (I have it enabled in the P&S bank on my D300) but it is the lowest quality option so it should be used with regard for what you're trying to accomplish. A BIF is there and gone so fast that you need some way of getting good exposure without thinking about it, and ADL might accomplish it, but I wouldn't use it for slow moving, high quality targets like landscapes.

For BIFs on my D300 I prefer spot metering +0.3 for dark birds and -0.3 for light birds, which isn't always perfect, so I may try your center-weighted with ADL to see how it wprks.

Larry - a Bay Area Nikonian
My Nikonians gallery

www.tempered-light.com

  

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nightcat Registered since 05th Mar 2006Wed 04-Jun-08 08:38 AM
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#6. "RE: A doubt about d-lighting and metering"
In response to Reply # 5


LaCrosse,WI, US
          

I may have missed the specific post you refer to, but the posts I have read were very flawed in their comparisons. ADL can increase apparent noise in some parts of the picture and can decrease it in other areas. So far, all I have seen are very subtle changes. I should mention that I don't shoot much matrix metering, which has a larger effect than cw.

I should have been clearer about ADL noise in non-nikon software. ADL is an auto-exposure mode and like any AE it can get a scene "wrong". You are correct that fixing an underexposed can increase noise. I meant that you wouldn't see noise caused by ADL BEFORE the corrections were made.

If you do decide to use ADL, I suggest you use manual and auto-iso. That way the ADL will lower the iso, reducing actual noise, and not affect your aperture or shutter speed.

BTW-not really related to your post, I give up. I'm not going to post anymore about ADL. I'm just wasting my time, it's like fighting the global warming hoax. The information is there and people are going to believe what they want to believe, what I say doesn't matter.

Kraig

"The wisest follow their own directions" -Euripides
"I thought there would be more elephants" -C. Columbus

  

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