So far in my very quick and incomplete scanning of specs for the D80, I see what seem to be 3 possibly significant things the D80 has that the D200 does not. I say 'possibly significant' because the importance of two of them would depend on how one uses the camera.
1. The D80 has the various scene modes of the D70. (There may be some differences - I haven't done a close comparison.) Important only if you plan to use them and/or don't plan to shoot RAW.
2. The D80 has several image retouching tools built-in to the camera itself - e.g., D-Lighting. Again important only if you don't plan on shooting RAW and taking care of these things in post-processing.
3. The D80 has an updated processing engine, with supposedly greater dynamic range. Whether this will give better results than uncompressed NEF on the D200 will have to await full tests of production D80s. My personal guess - only that - is that it will not.
What is perhaps more interesting is whether the higher ISO noise characteristics of the D80 are more like those of the D50. Again, this will have to await tests.
For my uses, the fact that the D200 has true mirror lock-up is sufficient reason to choose it over the D80, but YMMV.
When you are shooting at low shutter speeds, any little vibration is magnified and turns into a blurred image or a not-so-sharp image.
This is of particular interest to those who shoot landscapes at the "golden hours", at dawn or at sunset, with little light and therefore in need of slow shutter speeds, looking for maximum sharpness and depth of field, avoiding grain if on film, noise if on a digital camera, therefore wanting to shoot at the lowest possible ISO with the smallest possible aperture.
One of those induced vibrations is due to the mirror slapping up to let the sensor (or film) plane get the image.
MLU means Mirror Lock Up, a function by which the mirror is raised before the shutter actually opens, therefore eliminating mirror-slap induced vibration and blur.
Some may think this an exaggeration of care, however if you consider the size of a pixel and how much of movement will be needed just to overimpose two of them in an image .... you know it is of importance.
A partial alternative to MLU is to use the selftimer.
I can only assume that Nikon did their homework and the 0.4s deley with the auto mirror lock-up function is long enough for the vibrations of the mirror slapping to be of no consequence. This is exactly the type of mirror lock-up that I can see myself using. I don't have to worry about it, just set it and know that it's working. Using the self-timer in conjustion with the auto lock-up setting should help reduce the time it takes to set-up a shot, no remote cable neccesary. You could almost just leave the setting turned on if you are shooting landscapes, and if you don't mind the almost half second delay. The other option would be to have a user adjustable time delay so that the photographer can tweak the delay themselves. I sure we'll hear people say that 0.4s isn't long enough even though I'm sure that it is. Why not just make it user adjustable and then everyone is happy. I guess it's only the D80, if I want to control it myself I'll need to dish out for the D200. This camera looks amazing, I was going to buy the D200 to replace my D70, but now I'm going to roll with the D80. Can't wait to see some actual images from this camera.
What D80 do not have -------------------- - Real MLU (only 0.4s delay on D80) - ISO info in viewfinder - AIS Support - $700 more - 4-channel, 37/22 jpeg/raw, 5fps (instead of 2 channel, 23/6 jpeg/raw, 3 fps) - Rated 100,000 shutter life - 1005 pixel metering (420 pixels for D80) - 11/7 area TTL auto-focus - Uncompressed Raw NEF - 1/250 sec flash sync (1/200 sec for D80) - 1/8000 shutter (1/4000 for D80) - 50ms shutter time lag (80ms for D80) - Weather seals/Magnesium body - Wireless/Ethernet/GPS - CF - Hue settings and saturation - Timelapse - 10 pin remote terminal
What D200 do not have ---------------------- - Refined auto-area focus with selected area indication (blinks) - $700 less - Slideshow - don't laugh - D-Lighting, red-eye, trim, image overlay, monochrome - Filter effects - IR Remote - New 12-bit image processing engine. (Less noise??? To be determined) - Better battery life. 2,700 images/charge instead of 1,800. - SD - Smaller/lighter body - Vivid, more vivid settings, B&W
>Here's a summary: > >What D80 do not have >-------------------- > ... >- ISO info in viewfinder ...
***I think the D200's "Three Kings" direct access hot buttons layout says it all--serious photographers reset these many times, QUAL, WB and ISO. If you don't need these, go get a D80 (with the pre-set picture styles for Sports, tec.)
>What D200 do not have >---------------------- >- Refined auto-area focus with selected area indication blinks) > ... >- Slideshow - don't laugh >- D-Lighting, red-eye, trim, image overlay, monochrome > ...
***Can't above be implemented in a future D200 firmware upgrade?
I guess I'll have to sell my D70 and buy one of each then. Each has mutually exclusive features that I like.
D80 : -The IR remote is ML-L3 like the D70 and I already have one -I like the in-camera multi-exposure and image overlay possibility -long battery life -$700 cheaper is actually about $1000 cheaper for us in South Africa because of import duties and. That stacks up to a really nice lens!!
D200 : -ISo display in viewfinder. Recently messed up a whole ice-climbing shoot because the camera was on ISO 1600 from the night before and I forgot to check. -Also the weather seals and mag body a big plus for my outdoors activities. -No scene modes, just the essentials, right where you need them. Actually, I could happily own a camera with just Aperture mode. Seldom use anything else. -MLU nice for close-ups and landscapes, my 2 main photographic endeavours. I am not convinced the D80's shutter delay is the same thing??
It seems to me a lot of the D80 features that seem better than D200 are software upgrades aimed at user friendliness rather than better hardware. So I still think I would like one of each...NAS
>D200 : >-ISo display in viewfinder. Recently messed up a whole >ice-climbing shoot because the camera was on ISO 1600 from >the night before and I forgot to check.
Grrrrrrr.... even with it displayed in the VF and every indication that the exposure was not what I expected, I messed this up last week. I forgot to reset an ISO1600 selection from the night before. I couldn't figure why when I put on a flash for fill, the LCD was indicating "over". How big a bell do you have to ring!!! I even switched to program mode to try to get out of the "lock". Some days are ....
Roger Never let the value of a person, place or thing be defined by the limits of your own imagination.
Roger It's still, ISO, aperture and shutter-speed, right?
You can imagine how serious this gets, I took 4 days leave, ascended nearly 5000 ft in 10 miles of walking with a 80lb pack (whole day) and then spent 2 days shooting some awesome iceclimbing scenes, including a friend leading and opening a new route.
Got home, downloaded to PC and discovered noisy grainy pics, hundreds of them!!! All shot in RAW so a bit of rescuing is possible but not a single one good enough to publish in the local climbing rag.
I think the camera software should issue a warning on start-up if any of the shooting settings such as ISO, WB, Qual have been changed since the previous start-up or deviate from normal shooting settings. That would be really useful for anyone who moves from one type of scene to another on a regular basis (and is absent minded like me).
>At least I'm not the only one!!!! > >You can imagine how serious this gets, I took 4 days leave, >ascended nearly 5000 ft in 10 miles of walking with a 80lb >pack (whole day) and then spent 2 days shooting some awesome >iceclimbing scenes, including a friend leading and opening a >new route. > >Got home, downloaded to PC and discovered noisy grainy pics, >hundreds of them!!! All shot in RAW so a bit of rescuing >is possible but not a single one good enough to publish in >the local climbing rag. > >I think the camera software should issue a warning on >start-up if any of the shooting settings such as ISO, WB, >Qual have been changed since the previous start-up or >deviate from normal shooting settings. That would be >really useful for anyone who moves from one type of scene to >another on a regular basis (and is absent minded like me). > >JamesV
Use a D200 which has 4 custom setting banks. Set bank A for your preferred and important shooting and set without gridlines, Set bank B for "other stuff" include in the bank b settings grid lines. Make sure any changes are only done in bank b, now any time that you diverge from important settings grid lines will show up. Can't get any clearer warning than that. Hope this is of interest, regards Greg
>***I think the D200's "Three Kings" direct access hot >buttons layout says it all--serious photographers reset >these many times, QUAL, WB and ISO. If you don't need these, >go get a D80 (with the pre-set picture styles for Sports, >tec.)
I've not really looked at the D80 body, but QUAL, WB and ISO are adjustable through button-and-control-dial on the D70 just like they are on the D200 (although you don't get an in-viewfinder display of the settings, you have to look at the LCD). Does the D80 lack these and require "menu diving" to get to them?
Just a small correction, according to the Nikon D80 brochure, ISO is displayed in the viewfinder (which is great). Cheers Pete ______________________________ Peter Howells South Africa http://www.peterhowells.co.za
I'm resurrecting an old thread here, but I just found with my D80 that the default setting of the func button is to replace the shutter speed & aperature with the ISO in the viewfinder. It resets to shutter speed & aperature as soon as the func button is released.
However if the D200 shows the ISO, WB and QUAL in the viewfinder at all times, then the D200 has a clear advantage.
Thanks for all the comparisons and thoughts, I agree that the D80 is the model up from a D50, it is the D70s replacement. The D80 will overshadow the D50, the D80's performance compared to the D50 is such that for the extra bucks it is going to sway many possible D50 buyers.
So the D80 becomes the new entry level model for someone starting the learning curve in digital photography & who wants a good first camera. This is the same reason why I originaly brought my D70, except that there was not another model above it that came close in cost, bearing in mind my previous CP5000 had cost the same as my D70 !
If I was making the same decision now then it would be D80 / D200 and the D200 would win. It's like buying kids cloths, buy um big & they can grow into them ! A D80 for me would give me no room to expand from what I have learned from my D70, but the D200 would help in some areas that the D70 lacks.
Bhola queried the feasibility of upgrading from D50 to D80 for "home" use. Then he said "looking for a reason to upgrade"
If home use means general home and holiday snapshots then there is not much to be gained from buying a D80. The D50 is a superb snapshot camera. IMO there is unlikely to be a significant improvement in image quality with the D80 body because this is more a function of the lens and you might be better served by buying some more lenses or accessories for your D50.
Is the reason for wanting to upgrade just NAS or is it about pushing back the borders of your photographic experience? If the latter then the D80 would be a good buy. It has virtually all the features needed for a wide range of photographic techniques, together with faster autofocus, bigger viewfinder, bigger LCD etc. etc.
If you are prepared to take time to learn and use all the extra features then go for the D80.
the D80 will be a better snapshot camera than the D50 due to improved focus and a far better viewfinder. The viewfinder will be a big upgrade point for many. Or if you want to get silly....
D80 vs. D50/D70 = Higher res, better focus, better finder D80 vs. D200 = Better noise control (maybe), lighter, cheaper D80 vs. D2Hs = higher res, Cheaper D80 vs. D2Xs = Way cheaper!!!! D80 vs. Gamera = No turtle meat, less than 30 stories tall.
Sam wrote : "the D80 will be a better snapshot camera than the D50 due to improved focus and a far better viewfinder. The viewfinder will be a big upgrade point for many"
OK Point taken, I would definitely prefer that viewfinder. But if I already had a D50 (presumably with kit lens) I would rather buy a f2.8 AFS lens for my D50 than spend $1000 to upgrade the body. IMO, putting a fast AFS lens on the D50 will give better image quality and faster focusing for less investment
OK Point taken, I would definitely prefer that viewfinder. But if I already had a D50 (presumably with kit lens) I would rather buy a f2.8 AFS lens for my D50 than spend $1000 to upgrade the body. IMO, putting a fast AFS lens on the D50 will give better image quality and faster focusing for less investment>>>
James, sell the D50 and the investment is a lot smaller. The D50/D70 will always have a dim finder making composition more difficult with ANY lens. The D80/D200 cure that across the board. While I don't see the D200 as a great value, the D80 looks to be a worthy replacement for the D50 or D70 for many people...and that's ONLY considering the viewfinder, which is a very important artistic tool. For me it's the #1 reason why I got the D200....none of the rest really mattered which is why I sold the D200 and will now try the D80.
One large advantage of the D200 is that it will meter with Nikon manual focus lenses.
Now, if Nikon would just add a self-cleaning sensor, like Olympus, Sony, and now Canon have, add the automatic dust mapping/removal that Canon now has, and drop the D200 price to under $1000, I would be tempted. Give it another year or so.