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PICSMEDIA Registered since 14th Dec 2005Fri 27-Jan-06 07:16 PM
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"Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"


Maywood, US
          

I just got my delivery of my new 70-200mm 2.8 VR lens and OMG....this thing is gonna make my biceps huge along with maybe a stiff neck.
Anyways, so far did a couple test shots with it and gonna play around more with the buttons and features to learnmore about the VR aspects of shooting with this sweet heavy beast.

-RJ

"I shoot just about whatever I see"

-RJ

  

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hlk Registered since 31st Oct 2005Sat 28-Jan-06 12:30 AM
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#1. "RE: D70 Loves New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 0


Perth, AU
          

Enjoy with your new ARSENAL. The image quality is excellent

  

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PICSMEDIA Registered since 14th Dec 2005Sat 28-Jan-06 08:23 PM
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#2. "Blurry Photos - Is the VR Working"
In response to Reply # 1


Maywood, US
          

SORRY but I am pretty new and uneducated who tries to learn on my own and from other peoples knowledge.

I have no clue if VR works or not. The manual book doesn't explain much at all. I have the lens set VR "on"....FULL....NORMAL.
I hear the lens click as in what everyone says is normal but how do I know that it will reduce or eliminate camera shake when shooting hand held?
When do I use the 3 "Focus Lock" buttons at the end of the barrel?
I am also not sure what the FULL and 2.5mm switch is used for.

I shot these today and they are unprocessed, no editing other than the eagle and last prarrie dog photo which was cropped to show the blurr.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/RMaliwanag/DSC_4955_800.jpg
Flash used: No
Focal length: 200.0mm
Exposure time: 0.0010 s (1/1000)
Aperture: f/2.8
Metering Mode: matrix
Exposure: aperture

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/RMaliwanag/DSC_4968_800_full.jpg
Flash used: No
Focal length: 190.0mm
Exposure time: 0.0005 s (1/2000)
Aperture: f/2.8
Metering Mode: matrix
Exposure: aperture

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/RMaliwanag/DSC_4968_800.jpg


-RJ

"I shoot just about whatever I see"

-RJ

  

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poisonpill Registered since 28th Jan 2007Sat 28-Jan-06 08:30 PM
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#3. "RE: Blurry Photos - Is the VR Working"
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

for the eagle I'm sure you missed the focus. At 1/1000 there shouldn't be any blur.

Also why are you shooting at 1/1000 anyway? Images at F/2.8 won't be at sharp as if it were F/8. You should try to take more at F/8 (the "sweet spot").

have fun!

  

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PICSMEDIA Registered since 14th Dec 2005Sat 28-Jan-06 08:49 PM
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#4. "RE: Blurry Photos - Is the VR Working"
In response to Reply # 3


Maywood, US
          

>for the eagle I'm sure you missed the focus. At 1/1000 there
>shouldn't be any blur.
>
>Also why are you shooting at 1/1000 anyway? Images at F/2.8
>won't be at sharp as if it were F/8. You should try to take
>more at F/8 (the "sweet spot").
>
>have fun!

honestly, I am all new to learning my camera still along with this big lens. All I did was set the dial to Aperature mode and just fired away without making any changes.

-RJ

"I shoot just about whatever I see"

-RJ

  

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poisonpill Registered since 28th Jan 2007Sat 28-Jan-06 09:08 PM
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#5. "RE: Blurry Photos - Is the VR Working"
In response to Reply # 4


US
          

You should learn about what aperture mode does before you dive right in. It's no shame to use the camera in P mode when you start off. I'm usually in P mode anyway.

Have fun experimenting!

  

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PICSMEDIA Registered since 14th Dec 2005Sat 28-Jan-06 09:44 PM
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#6. "RE: Blurry Photos - Is the VR Working"
In response to Reply # 5


Maywood, US
          

yeah but even shooting wide open at f/2.8 and 1/2000, at that shutter speed, there shouldn't be any blurr??? Thats pretty quick to shoot at? If I had gone to f/8 then the camera would have found a slower shutter speed and cuase even more shake.
I am just wondering how can I tell if VR is workingor not. I shot same subjects with and without VR at same settings and they looked similar.

-RJ

"I shoot just about whatever I see"

-RJ

  

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Max Power Registered since 13th Jan 2006Sun 29-Jan-06 12:20 AM
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#7. "RE: Blurry Photos - Is the VR Working"
In response to Reply # 6


St. Paul, US
          

At 1/1000, even Barney Fife shouldn't have blur!

It's not an optical illusion. It just looks like one.

  

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hlk Registered since 31st Oct 2005Sun 29-Jan-06 12:22 AM
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#8. "RE: Blurry Photos - Is the VR Working"
In response to Reply # 6


Perth, AU
          

First of all,try to shoot outdoor stastic objects. Use Aperture priority mode and set it to either f8 or f11 and let the camera choose appropriate shutter speed and turn VR off. Shoot at different lighting condition so you will get shots with same aperture with different shutter speed. This will determine how steady you can handel the lens. Check those pictures with hand shake and note the shutter speed. Then try this again with VR turn on so you can know whether VR is functioning or not. Better using center AF point in single focus with focus priority rather than release priority. When you are shooting at 1/1000 sec the results of VR is no effect as you can handhel the shutter speed without VR. VR will eliminate only your hand shake but not subject movement.

  

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lanclos Registered since 28th Oct 2005Sun 29-Jan-06 02:29 AM
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#9. "RE: Blurry Photos - Is the VR Working"
In response to Reply # 2


Santa Cruz, US
          

VR is at its best when you are trying to push beyond the normally accepted boundaries for hand-holding your camera. As was suggested, you should be able to get a decent picture (with decent enough technique) at 1/1000 without VR. The best thing to do would be to take two comparison shots of the same composition, one with VR, and one without. Then put yourself into a situation where you are using the camera at 1/30 shutter speed, and somewhere beyond 100mm on your zoom; VR should make a huge difference there.

In any case, VR is no substitute for technique. You should still do your best to hold the camera as still as is reasonable, and let the VR make up for where you fall short. The best way to find out where VR makes a difference for the types of photographs you take is to do test shots.

--Kyle

--Kyle

  

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PICSMEDIA Registered since 14th Dec 2005Sun 29-Jan-06 03:23 AM
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#10. "RE: Blurry Photos - Is the VR Working"
In response to Reply # 9


Maywood, US
          

Honestly, all the shots were hand held as tight as I can hold the camera close to me firmly. I believe I even rested the lens on the wooden railing for more support to shoot the eagle.

Now my indoor test shots came out much better, atleast I think so for testing purposes and main subjects have hardly any blur and again no processing done. VR was set to ON.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/RMaliwanag/DSC_5037_800.jpg
Flash used: Yes (auto, return light detected)
Focal length: 190.0mm
Exposure time: 0.017 s (1/60)
Aperture: f/2.8
Metering Mode: matrix
Exposure: aperture priority

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/RMaliwanag/DSC_5039_800.jpg
Flash used: Yes (auto, return light detected)
Focal length: 200.0mm
Exposure time: 0.017 s (1/60)
Aperture: f/2.8
Metering Mode: matrix
Exposure: aperture priority

-RJ

"I shoot just about whatever I see"

-RJ

  

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poisonpill Registered since 28th Jan 2007Sun 29-Jan-06 01:00 PM
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#11. "RE: Blurry Photos - Is the VR Working"
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

The reason shooting at F/2.8 can cause blur is because you are using a much smaller depth of field than necessary. Therefore if you accidentally mis-focus (or the AF sensor pics up an area too close/too far) then the rest of the subject becomes a little blurry.

You don't have to shoot at super high shutter speeds just to achieve maximum sharpness -- that's what VR is for anyway. (static objects at least, moving subjects is a different story) For my 18-200mmVR, I have tack sharp photos taken at 1/15 secs with VR on.

  

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Virgil Registered since 08th Aug 2004Wed 01-Feb-06 09:34 AM
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#29. "RE: Blurry Photos - Is the VR Working"
In response to Reply # 2


Vienna, AT
          

Hi RJ

>I have no clue if VR works or not. The manual book doesn't
>explain much at all. I have the lens set VR
>"on"....FULL....NORMAL.
>I hear the lens click as in what everyone says is normal but
>how do I know that it will reduce or eliminate camera shake
>when shooting hand held?

- VR has to be set "on" or "off" - if "on" is set you can choose either "normal"-mode, at which vibrations in the vertical plane are cancelled out or "active"-mode in which vibrations in the vertical and the horizontal plane are cancelled out. Due to this the "active" mode is not suitable for panning shots. The intentions of this modes are - for "normal"-mode - to allow panning but reduce camera-shake which is mostly up/down and - for "active"-mode - to reduce anykind of shake eg. you´re shooting out of a moving car, helicopter, airplane and alike where it´s most likely that you don´t pan rather then shoot straight out of a window, door and so on.

>When do I use the 3 "Focus Lock" buttons at the end of the
>barrel?

- the focus hold buttons near the front of the lens barrel can be quite useful when you want to make sure to keep the pre-acquired focus locked. The lens will not refocus as long as any of the three redundant focus hold buttons are depressed.

>I am also not sure what the FULL and 2.5mm switch is used
>for.

In the Full position the lens will focus at any point from its nearest focus point to the furthest. In the 2.5m position, the lens only focuses from 2,5 meters to infinity.

Some general thoughts on your shots:

- it´s possible that you´ve accidently left the limiter switch at 2.5m which causes that everything closer then that is blurred

- it´s possible that you´ve accidently went closer then 1.5 meters to the subject (lens won´t focus under this limit)

- you will notice that VR is active as you feel the movement in the barrel and hear the sound it makes

- VR´s intention is to allow shots which violate the rule of 1/focal lenght shutter speed. This rule basically says that you shall not shoot a slower shutter speed then the focal lenght in use. Eg. shooting at 200mm focal lenght requires at least 1/200 or faster to avoid camera shake / blurred results. With VR engaged you can go as low as 1/10 at the same focal lenght - that´s the advantage VR gives you compared to other lenses without VR technology.

- improper technique will cause blurred results as well - push the shutter-button halfway´s when VR is active and push it full when the picture in the viewer is steady - NOT before that. It needs training if you´re not used to it.

- to avoid unnecessary draining of the batteries you should deactivate VR if not needed (daylight with high shutter-speeds possible)

- NOTE: VR doesn´t help to stop motion if shutter speed isn´t sufficient!

HTH!

Cheers
Wolfgang

Nikonian from Vienna / Austria
Member of NPS
See my snapshots: http://www.photoforum.ru/12675

  

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AZ Candy Basic MemberSun 29-Jan-06 07:13 PM
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#12. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 0


Boston Area, US
          

Someone please correct me if I am wrong (I am still at the bottom end of the learning curve here) but one of the things I noticed with the EXIF data is that all the pics were taken at 190mm - 200mm which is the furthest most reach of this lens. Would that make a difference? Do you still have the same issues at 100mm?

Candy <<~~ Not allowed to explore the bunny trails anymore

Candy <<~~ Not allowed to explore the bunny trails anymore

  

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jfweb11 Registered since 09th Jan 2006Sun 29-Jan-06 10:58 PM
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#13. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 12


US
          

I Have the same lens I shoot alot of ice hockey and get alot of blurr in my pictures

  

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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Sun 29-Jan-06 11:09 PM
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#14. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 12


Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

Candy,

You are right.
Shooting wide open (f/2.8) at or near the maximum focal length contributes to the "issue"; although it wouldn't be very different at 100mm.
VR doesn't relieve the photographer from the responsibility of having good focus on the subject; it only compensates for some unsteadiness when you take the shot.
But you probably already know this from using your 80-400mm VR

Bill

Visit me at My site

  

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AZ Candy Basic MemberMon 30-Jan-06 01:49 AM
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#15. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 14


Boston Area, US
          

Bill. I am going to take this opportunity to thank you for all your contributions here at Nikonians. I have and look forward to learning more from you.

As to my 80-400 ... I have had my new baby for two weeks now and have yet to be able to go out and take her for a spin Too much work and not enough time for play at the moment. Sadly, I didn't win the lotto last night so the work thing appears to continue...

Candy <<~~ Not allowed to explore the bunny trails anymore

Candy <<~~ Not allowed to explore the bunny trails anymore

  

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PICSMEDIA Registered since 14th Dec 2005Mon 30-Jan-06 07:50 PM
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#16. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 15


Maywood, US
          

Well today was a nice day so I went back to shoot the bald eagles again to see how this lens does. I am still not satisfied with the performance. Now I know I am still a beginner, but I pretty sure I have taken better shots with other lenses. I honestly can't figure what the big deal is with this expensive lens and the VR mode. Sure it reduces vibration a little bit, but the shots I took today were wth a monopod attached to lens collar.
Maybe it's just me and my shooting style? Maybe it's my D70? Maybe I could have went for a much cheaper cost in lens like the Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG APO HSM and got better results in photos?

all the shots taken today were done in Aperture mode letting the camera choose the shutter speeds.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/RMaliwanag/DSC_5086_800.jpg
Flash used: No
Focal length: 200.0mm
Exposure time: 0.0063 s (1/160)
Aperture: f/4.0
Metering Mode: matrix
Exposure: aperture

CROPPED to show detail (which in my oppinion could have been better with such an expensive lens)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/RMaliwanag/DSC_5086_800crop.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/RMaliwanag/DSC_5075_800.jpg
Flash used: No
Focal length: 190.0mm
Exposure time: 0.020 s (1/50)
Aperture: f/8.0
Metering Mode: matrix
Exposure: aperture

CROPPED to show detail (still could have been better)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/RMaliwanag/DSC_5075_800crop.jpg


-RJ

"I shoot just about whatever I see"

-RJ

  

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rkgibbons Registered since 16th Aug 2004Tue 31-Jan-06 04:02 PM
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#20. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 16



          

Before you start doubting the sharpness of your new lens, try sending your photographs to a lab for printing. I think you'll find that your prints are VERY sharp indeed.

With all this new digital technology in our hands, people have a tendency to expect TOO MUCH. You're probably viewing your images zoomed to 100% in Photoshop (or whatever image-editing application you're using) and thinking, "Man, they're not as sharp as I expected."

I've yet to find ANY lens/camera combination that can maintain tack-sharp images at this extreme level of magnification.

That was the first lesson I learned when I started work in a professional graphic design house. We were getting these huge digital files and they all looked a tiny bit blurry to me (when zoomed to 100%) -- but when we printed them, they looked amazingly sharp (even when printed at poster sizes).

I'm a web-designer, so I work at the pixel level. But photography is different. You need to view your images with a little more "distant".

Anyway, it's a suggestion.

Take it for what it's worth.

  

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radek_42 Registered since 12th Dec 2005Wed 01-Feb-06 05:25 PM
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#33. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 16


Pasadena, US
          

Howdy,

I do not own ant VR lens, but what I've seen on this forum, it's one fine lens. I think you have plenty of detail in these pictures. It seems to me that exposure is a bit off; highlights seems to be blown out ... therefore, you lose details in whites.

In my view, it's just practice. Keep shooting and keep posting. That way you will learn one thing at the time. You'll be able to improve your skills, knowledge of the camera and lens, colors and composition, etc. It worked for me

Have fun! Cheers, R>

------------------------------
Radek Urban
"The Answer is 42."
"Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly." -Dalai Lama
http://www.nikonians-images.com/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=82954

------------------------------
Radek Urban
"The Answer is 42."
"Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly." -Dalai Lama
http://www.nikonians-images.com/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=82954

  

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MstrBones Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Dec 2005Thu 02-Feb-06 02:57 PM
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#39. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 16


AW
          

Actually, the second photo is very clear IMHO, especially considering the 1/50th of a second shutter speed. One move by the eagle and your subject will be blurry.

I have a cat I photograph quite a bit and she can make my pictures look blurry because of the little twitches she constantly makes, (like her whiskers). I've found I've got to shoot her at higher shutter speeds, (and no amount of VR, if I had it, is gonna help!). OTO, my dog tends to sit dead still and I can often get away with slower shutter speeds.

So even with a great lens, which you have bought, it gets down to getting the dof with aperture, the shutter speed needed for the subject, the ISO for the ambient light condition. It's the bermuda triangle of photography we all work within.

Regards,

""

  

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jaytheman Registered since 14th Aug 2004Wed 16-Jan-08 01:14 PM
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"RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"


Belmont, US
          

I think your bottom shot is plenty sharp (can't tell how much post processing sharpening you did but it looks like very little).

I would shoot the eagle at 1/640, f/5.6, 180mm and whatever ISO you need to get this shot. Some people find the 70-200mm a tad softer than they like at 200mm. I know I like mine a lot better at 180mm than at 200mm. I am just used to zooms being a bit better in the middle than at either end and definitely better at f/5.6 than at 2.8. Shoot it a bit more and you will love it.

Jay

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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fasterlaster Registered since 12th Jan 2005Mon 30-Jan-06 08:19 PM
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#17. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 0


Nashville, US
          

RJ,
One thing you really need to do for yourself is spend some time with a solid camera mount (i.e. tripod) and a static object. Forget the VR for now. Try mounting the lens mount on a very solid tripod and point it at some sort of object with detail (I have found that text on an object works great for sharpness tests) . You might want to go outside and get some additional light. Set your D70 up with the lens and switch the focus to manual. After you are sure the lens is focused on the object, change the selecter dial to A. Take a photo at each of the aperature settings from 2.8 up. Then look at the same section of the photo at 100% to compare how different aperatures effect the sharpness. If you still get images not acceptable either something is wrong, or your expectations are perhaps off. If you set your scene with a few smaller objects in front and in the rear of the main object, you can also see how DOF relates with that lens. It really is an exceptional lens if you know what to expect, hopefully this test will give you an idea of what to expect, and if it doesn't perform up to specs it will help show that.

-- jason
www.fasterlasterphoto.com

  

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PICSMEDIA Registered since 14th Dec 2005Mon 30-Jan-06 10:34 PM
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#18. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 17


Maywood, US
          

well considering I bought this lens to use for mainly car racing, I wanted to try it out on a subject first that doesn't move as much and as fast as a car racing around a track so I shot the eagle since it wasn't really moving at all.
Anyways, if I don't really get sharp images at 200mm with VR on just shooting a eagle thats not moving using a monopod, then I am afraid of what the results will look like when shooting a fast colorful car racing around a track.

Now Bill mentioned that when shot f/2.8 at 200mm could be the issue for blur. One of the images that i didn't post, I shot at 90mm at f/4.0 and when I went to crop to show detail, it was actually better than the first eagle image I posted today. So, could the focal length be the cause for unsharp images?

Jason - I understand you would like me to play around with different Aperatures on a sturdy tripod, but when I am trackside/infield/in the pits at a car race, sometimes a tripod can't be used to catch the fast colorful cars. Sometimes its just needed to hand hold the camera. Testing on a display sign with letters using a tripod may be good for testing sharpness, but the sign isn't moving at all.
Maybe I am not making sense?

Before I purchased the lens, I asked what would be good for my purpose . I posted in the Sports Photography forum and some recommended this lens for my purpose. I am not disappointed of anyone's recomendations towards this lens. I am more just unclear of it's actual performance so far especially with a hefty price tag. Sometimes it can take a sharp image hand held, other times it won't with a monopod in use. Like I said, it could just be very well the fault of the shooter behind the camera...ME

-RJ

"I shoot just about whatever I see"

-RJ

  

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fasterlaster Registered since 12th Jan 2005Mon 30-Jan-06 11:11 PM
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#19. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 18


Nashville, US
          

>Jason - I understand you would like me to play around with
>different Aperatures on a sturdy tripod, but when I am
>trackside/infield/in the pits at a car race, sometimes a
>tripod can't be used to catch the fast colorful cars.
>Sometimes its just needed to hand hold the camera. Testing
>on a display sign with letters using a tripod may be good
>for testing sharpness, but the sign isn't moving at all.
>Maybe I am not making sense?

Sorry I wasn't intending you to really test for sharpness (although looking at my post it does read that way). My suggestion was to put the lens through a list of as controlled tests as possible to give you a good series of photographs that you can make your own comparisons with and determine what to expect (and if everything is functioning correctly) before you hit the race track.

One additional comment is about photographing race vehicles. If you use too high of a shutter speed you will stop the motion of the wheels and cause it to be a bit static. Have fun working on your panning technique (which btw I stink at). Enjoy

Jason

-- jason
www.fasterlasterphoto.com

  

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Meprst Registered since 30th Oct 2005Tue 31-Jan-06 05:46 PM
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#21. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 19


IL
          

Hi,

I made a little calculation -

Let's say that the distance from camera to the object is 3 meters, focus length is 200 (actually 300 in D70) and aperture 2.8. then the depth of field is from 2.97m to 3.03m very very narrow, only 6 cm (calculated as focal length 200).

In this case most of the picture would be out of focus. No VR or shutter speed can change that.

The solution is to close the apperture - given above settings with aperture set to 22 the DOF is from 2.91 to 3.10. If you change from 200 to 100 the DOF is from 2.65 to 3.45.

BTW if the distance to object is 20 meters then with first setting the DOF is from 19.5 to 20.6 and with last seting from 10.5 to 201.

So, I think you have to avoid setting the aperture to 2.8 when shooting with high focus length

Regards


Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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lanclos Registered since 28th Oct 2005Wed 01-Feb-06 12:39 AM
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#25. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 21


Santa Cruz, US
          

>Let's say that the distance from camera to the object is 3
>meters, focus length is 200 (actually 300 in D70) and
>aperture 2.8. then the depth of field is from 2.97m to 3.03m
>very very narrow, only 6 cm (calculated as focal length
>200).

Focal length is focal length is focal length; 200mm is 200mm is 200mm. Working with a crop factor does not change the photographic properties of the image.

Using the calculator here, I came up with a depth of field of 2.4cm with the parameters you selected.

What I find more worrisome in these pictures is the appearance of the out-of-focus parts of the image. Bits and pieces of the background appear (to my eye) to be streaking somewhat. Not having done the comparison myself, I don't know if VR has any impact on that kind of thing, or if that's due to some other factor.

--Kyle

--Kyle

  

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Meprst Registered since 30th Oct 2005Wed 01-Feb-06 05:04 PM
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#31. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 25


IL
          

Hi Kyle,

You right, my mistake I used DOFMaster program for PALM, I recalculated with rhe same parameters and received the DOF of 2 cm.

About VR. I have 24-120 VR lens and noticed a picture blur in some cases when the camera was mounted on tripod with VR ON. Please look the responce I received from Nikon about the issue -

The question -
Recently I purchased a Nikkor VR Zoom lens 24-120 (my camera is D70).
What I noticed is that when VR switch is ON, pressing the shutter release button half-way caused a light "click" sound and small image shift in the viewfinder. Releasing the button caused another "click" (after few moments) and another image shift.
Are these phenomenons is a regular VR mechanism operation and my lens is OK ?
If so, and because the VR mechanism is also ON at the instant the shutter is released, the simple conclusion, when shooting with timer with the lens is mounted on the tripod, is that the VR mechanism MUST be off because it can cause to a possible picture blur or slightly out of focus (I encountered with this phenomena using the lens in some cases - note every time). Please elaborate.

The answer -
The VR function of the 24-120mm lenses should be switched off when used on a tripod a blurring may occur. Only the AF-S VR 200, 300 and 200-400mm lenses can be used on a tripod with VR switched on.
The symptoms you describe are normal for that VR lens

Regards


Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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spencejm Silver Member Nikonian since 13th Jul 2004Tue 31-Jan-06 08:39 PM
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#22. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 18


Columbia, US
          

I'm no expert and I don't own this lens but have been involved in electronics and computer troubleshooting for 20 years.

It appears you think there might be something wrong with your lens. You need to exclude all possible variables to find out. That is why it was suggested you put the camera on a tripod. Not because we think you're going to be using it on a tripod but becasue you need to exclude the camera shake variable. When it is on a tripod YOU have been removed from the equation (mostly.) Now you can take some shots of a static subject and you will know that any problems are caused by the lens or by the camera, not your hands shaking. If the images are good, then you'll know it's not a problem with the lens or camera and it probably has something to do with you.

I like to take photos of Formula One cars but if I was getting shots that didn't look good to me and I thought my technique was good, I would lock that sucker down on a tripod in a heart beat. I wouldn't have it on a tripod at the track but at my house taking shots of my brick wall.

Another thing I noticed in your post was that you were using a monopod. Since I don't own this lens I could be wrong but I thought you were supposed to turn VR off on a tripod or monopod. You might want to check into that.



Joe

I am struggling with my inner adult

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PICSMEDIA Registered since 14th Dec 2005Tue 31-Jan-06 09:58 PM
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#23. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 22


Maywood, US
          

Actually from my first shots with this NEW lens, I "might" have jumped the gun on it's performance afterwards. The problem was more my shooting technique, style, and knowledge. To some this lens may be great, but to me it's not worth $1600 and that is just my oppinion due to my knowledge in photography. Maybe it really is a great lens for the price but I won't know that right away just from what I already know. This lens hasn't had more than 50 shots on it so I will really not know its true performance until I see something amazing come out of it that I haven't seen done with a $300 lens.
On the same day I shot the second set of eagle photos, I also shot the prarrie dogs again. Now I shot these hand held without the use of a monopod or tripod so maybe I just gott agive the lens a chance to show me what it really can do and just be patient about it all.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/RMaliwanag/DSC_5093_800a.jpg
Flash used: No
Focal length: 190.0mm
Exposure time: 0.0025 s (1/400)
Aperture: f/4.0
Metering Mode: matrix
Exposure: aperture

Cropped a bit more
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/RMaliwanag/DSC_5093_800crop.jpg

Cropped even more
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/RMaliwanag/DSC_5093_800cropB.jpg
-RJ

"I shoot just about whatever I see"

-RJ

  

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fasterlaster Registered since 12th Jan 2005Tue 31-Jan-06 10:34 PM
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#24. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 23


Nashville, US
          

Hopefully it's just my eyes. But something is just not right with this image. The rock just to our left of our furry friend looks all wrong. It doesn't look like the nice boken that this lens is known for. It actually looks like the rock has movement in it (blurry, but not from focus if that makes sense) or even what looks like double image. The prarie dog also looks just a tad oversharpened, but that very well might be accurate depending on his fur coat. It's mostly the rock that bothers me.

Also when using vr, did you happen to press the shutter button partially down and wait for the vr to "catch up" with your movement before releasing the shutter? Consult your manual, but when the vr kick in is determined by one of the option sliders on the side of the lens.

-- jason
www.fasterlasterphoto.com

  

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PICSMEDIA Registered since 14th Dec 2005Wed 01-Feb-06 01:03 AM
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#26. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 24


Maywood, US
          

yes, I depressed the shutter button half way down first and I heard the VR click in the lens barrel and then through the viewfinder the image bacame still, but I believe from the weight of this lens, I still cause camera shake.

Other settings I use on the camera are:
+2 Sharpening
+2 Tone comp
sRGB III Color
Enhanced Saturation
0 degress Hue
White balance - auto
ISO 200
AF area mode - Dynamic
Center t=wtd - 8

The photos do make my eyes screwy

-RJ

"I shoot just about whatever I see"

-RJ

  

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AZ Candy Basic MemberWed 01-Feb-06 01:26 AM
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#27. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 26


Boston Area, US
          

Try AF area mode - Single and AF - S. If you are still causing camera shake you might be tossing the focus inadvertantly as you press the shutter button.

Candy <<~~ Not allowed to explore the bunny trails anymore

Candy <<~~ Not allowed to explore the bunny trails anymore

  

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danai Registered since 09th Oct 2004Wed 16-Jan-08 01:14 PM
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#45. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 27


Bangkok, TH
          

RJ, I'm sorry to hear you're having problems. I was interested in buying this lens myself so I took my D70 to the camera store to try it out a couple weeks ago. And I must say I am impressed with the VR's capabilities. Though I must admit it took me over a dozen shots to learn how to hold the lens for VR to work effectively. My experience with numerous camcorders and their respective versions of VR helped me have a realistic expectation of the potential abilities of a VR lens. After making dozens of 12x18 prints on my Epson R2400 and previously on my Epson R1800 I've realized that looking at the image at 50% zoom level is a pretty good way to quickly judge how sharp the image will be when printed. Also, just because you spent 5 times more on a lens doesn't mean it will perform 5 times better. Often the difference is only noticeable when the lens is used wide open and at the extreme focal lengths. The main reason the lens costs so much more is because you're paying for f/2.8 versus f/5.6. Now compared to a third party lens like a sigma f/2.8 the difference is even smaller. It all depends on how much you think that extra edge is worth to you. On the other hand, I urge you to test the lens with a good tripod to make sure you don't have a bad copy of your lens. Use a remote release or the timer feature. I hope this helps.

Nikon D70
Raw processed with Capture One LE
Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8 VR @ 200mm
ISO 200, f/2.8, 1/60th
First Image VR On, Second Image VR Off

Image Gallery: www.danai-c.com | www.bluepano.com

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

  

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PICSMEDIA Registered since 14th Dec 2005Wed 01-Feb-06 04:47 AM
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#28. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 45


Maywood, US
          

Danai, thanks for you sample images. That is something I have not done yet. Shoot subject with VR off and then with VR on. I will try the tripod too. I have a pretty sturdy Slik Pro 400DX that will do the job. But as in the lens manual states, it says to keep VR off when using a tripod. Why is it needed to be off?
I noticed that you shot wide open and at full extended focal. So this helps me understand what I need to do from seeing your samples.

Just so everyone is aware, my first photos posted before I state the cropped versions underneath them....the original was just reduced in size to comply with posting photo rules. The cropped versions were not magnified in anyway. The cropped versions are just sections I took out of the 3008x2000 size photo to show detail from the original size and then reduced to comply with photo posting rules.

-RJ

"I shoot just about whatever I see"

-RJ

  

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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Wed 01-Feb-06 10:38 AM
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#30. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 28


Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

RJ,

I noticed that you shot wide open and at full extended focal. So this helps me understand what I need to do from seeing your samples.

Please don't shoot "wide open" unless it is of a flat target such as the pictures in post#29.
For three dimensional objects, like many of the other posts; stop down to something like f/8 for shots with a reasonable Depth Of Field (DOF).


Bill


Visit me at My site

  

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Frenchie Registered since 06th Oct 2004Wed 01-Feb-06 05:16 PM
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#32. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 30


FR
          

>>But as in the lens manual states, it says to keep VR off when using a tripod. Why is it needed to be off?<<

It's the same with the 80-400VR. I'm no physicist so the best explanation I can offer is that the motors in the lens "fight" against the rig being locked tight on a tripod and can actually induce movement in the camera.

Pete
"Cameras don't take photographs, people do" - John Hedgecoe said that.
"Expose for the highlights and let the shadows take care of themselves" - Ansel Adams said that.
"The camera is only a tool. The best saw in the world won't make you a great carpenter" - I said that
A few photos, here for a reason

  

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Alejandro Platinum Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2004Wed 01-Feb-06 07:29 PM
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#34. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 32


Spain, ES
          


hahaha, the manual says turn it off on a tripod and then we wonder why.

Its like dont push this button, and by pushing it we self destruct.

A


-----------------------

  

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danai Registered since 09th Oct 2004Thu 02-Feb-06 07:22 AM
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#35. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 34


Bangkok, TH
          

Bill,

What do you mean don't shoot wide open. It's kinda the point for spending the extra $$$ to be able to have an f/2.8 lens for low light situations. Now that I think about it, maybe you're just saying this to RJ to make it easier to test the sharpness of the lens.

Danai

Image Gallery: www.danai-c.com | www.bluepano.com

  

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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Thu 02-Feb-06 10:53 AM
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#36. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 35


Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

Danai,

Yes, don't test the sharpness wide open.

If the subject requires more Depth Of Field than f/2.8 then you'll think it isn't sharp for the wrong reason.

Bill

Visit me at My site

  

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MstrBones Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Dec 2005Thu 02-Feb-06 01:12 PM
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#37. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 36


AW
          

Bill,

I think you hit the nail on the head on shooting the lens at max aperture. There's a nice little online dof calculator available, (free!), for those that would like to get some ideas on using these super telephoto lenses, (or any lens, for that matter).

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html



""

  

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kschultz76 Registered since 09th Dec 2005Thu 02-Feb-06 02:14 PM
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#38. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 28


Burlington County, US
          

To follow up on the DOF issue, shooting this lens at 2.8 and 4 is something you should only do when necessary to really get the shot if you can't any other way. This is true with any lens, unless you are shooting in a controlled studio environment and you know for sure your subject will fall squarely in your DOF range. Plus no lens is at its sharpest at the extreme ends of its aperture range. Another thought I would offer is that by shooting wide open with shutter speeds over 1/250 you are shooting in a range that you should be able to get handheld without the VR on, perhaps shooting with those settings and VR on you are introducing blur caused by the VR attempting to compensate when no compensation is needed? I'd really recommend that you take some handheld shots btw f/8 and f/16 with the VR and also some shots at f/2.4 and f/4 with it off. I myself am getting ready to purchase the 80-400 VR, and have seen incredibly sharp w/ no shake visible photos from it with shutter speeds under 1/30 at f/8, and I would think that your 70-200 should perform just as well.

I'm no expert but that's my thoughts....

  

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robboh Registered since 22nd Dec 2005Fri 03-Feb-06 04:57 AM
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#40. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 0


Auckland, NZ
          

VR definitely works, but its not a panacea either. You still need to practice good handholding technique and preferably stabilise yourself somehow with longer focal lengths.

Opinions seem to vary, but my feeling is that given the crop factor of the dSLRs, you should be typically using a rule-of-thumb for shutter speed of ~ 1/FL*2. This especially applies if your technique isnt good (mine stinks). IE: for 200mm focal length, 1/400 shutter speed or faster.

VR is typically reliably good for 2-3 stops under that, in other words, around 1/50 - 1/100 if your starting shutter speed is 1/400. Conversely, VR has been shown to cause image softening when used in conjunction with high shutter speeds, so if you dont need the VR, turn it off.

Once VR starts working on a 1/2 shutter press, you should hear a whir and a click and the image should noticably stabilise in the VF, it usually takes about 1/2 - 1 second.

You can successfully use VR on a monopod, the combination should give you around 4 stops 'help' over handholding. Tripods are a no-no for VR except for a couple of VRII lenses.

Some people have commented that your images look a little strange and I agree with them. I seem to recall seeing a few posts like this a year or so ago and, IIRC, the end result was that the VR mechanism in the lens was faulty.

As others have suggested, do some static testing on a tripod with the VR turned off, at f2.8, 5.6, 8 & 11 with fast shutter speeds (flash tests can also help). If you cant get a sharp image from that, you have a problem with your lens (or tripod technique). Shallow depth of field (f2.8) in combination with not quite accurate focusing WILL give you a soft looking subject.

Once you have done the static tests, next do a series of similar tests handheld and then compare with your statics. Then finally, do the same with the VR set to normal (handheld). If your non-VR pics appear better than your VR pics, then I'd suggest your lens needs some attention.

Hope this helps,
Rob.


  

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PICSMEDIA Registered since 14th Dec 2005Fri 03-Feb-06 04:50 PM
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#41. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 40


Maywood, US
          

well weather outside was not that great so I did a static test indoors shooting a box with lettering at about 12 feet away from object. All shots were done at 200mm focal going from f/2.8, 4, 8, and 11 aperatures and 1/60th sec shutter speed.

First, I had shot freely on a tripod at f/2.8, 4, 8, and 11. Some how on a tripod, the lettering was blur the wider I got towards f/2.8

Second, I shot at same focal/same aperatures but now Handheld with VR set to ON. A bit better handheld with VR turned on even at f/2.8

Third, I shot at same focal/same aperatures but now Handheld with VR set to OFF. Now when focusing on subject, I was getting camera shake however the images turned out clearer than when mounted on a tripod with VR set to OFF as well.

I don't understand what's happening here today. I would have figured that the tripod is more steady than my arms but instead my arms produced clearer shots than using a tripod???

To see all the images from the test, I uploaded them to my photobucket account for easier viewing rather than posting 12 photos in one message on here.
Here is the test photos http://photobucket.com/albums/v120/RMaliwanag/200mmVR%20Test/
The top row of four is Handheld with VR off
The middle row is Handheld with VR on
The last row is on Tripod with VR off

-RJ

"I shoot just about whatever I see"

-RJ

  

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PRW Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Apr 2002Fri 03-Feb-06 10:00 PM
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#42. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 41


Plymouth, GB
          

FWIW Using flash has frozen any movement caused by camera shake in the hand held shots. You have an effective shutter speed much quicker than 1/60s. More like 1/5000s.

I feel that you need to do the tests again without flash, outdoors if needed, in order to learn anything from them.

I also think the brown rock in the prarie dog image looks to have a double image. Weird!

I don't own the lens, but I am interested to see you solve this issue. Good luck.

Kind regards,
Paul

Visit my Nikonians gallery.



www.paulwheelerphotography.com/
www.flickr.com/photos/paul_wheeler/

  

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lanclos Registered since 28th Oct 2005Sat 04-Feb-06 01:44 AM
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#43. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 41


Santa Cruz, US
          

When you do your tests, make sure to use the same subject, and use a variety of apertures-- f/2.8 and f/8 would be my first two choices. Try to find a subject that will let you compare not only the foreground, but also the background elements of the picture.

Given that you've had so many problems with your lens, have you tried contacting Nikon about your issues?

--Kyle

--Kyle

  

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bosman Registered since 05th Feb 2006Sun 05-Feb-06 03:22 AM
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#44. "RE: Does it Work - New 70-200mm 2.8 VR"
In response to Reply # 43


Holland, US
          

Well i have enjoyed my 70-200vr. I would say you have the right lens for fast action. One thing i recognized about the VR feature is that it seems to be more for a panning type shot in the selected active mode...left to right. It is not so usefull up and down in active mode. It is good for handholding in the selected normal mode. So let me tell you...from a ski-boat i have absolute confidence that i can freeze the water droplets with VR on so shooting cars at a track should be no problemo!

From Images to memories

  

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