nikonians

Even though we ARE Nikon lovers,we are NOT affiliated with Nikon Corp. in any way.

| |
Go to a  "printer friendly" view of this message which allow an easy print Printer-friendly copy Go to the page which allows you to send this topic link and a message to a friend Email this topic to a friend
Forums Lobby GET TO KNOW YOUR CAMERA & MASTER IT Nikon D90/D80/D70 (Public) topic #4850
View in linear mode

Subject: "Underexposure in Full Auto mode" Previous topic | Next topic
bnn110 Registered since 25th Oct 2006Wed 25-Oct-06 02:21 AM
5 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
"Underexposure in Full Auto mode"



          

I just got a D80 this weekend and dicovered an exposure issue in Full Auto mode. Any indoor shots I take in low light using the pop-up flash are underexposed by at least 1 stop.

In P mode, when everything is set to Auto, I can increase the Exposure Value by +.07 with good results.

I have no problem using the camera in P mode, but my wife likes to use it as a point and shoot. I can make an adjustment using NXCapture after the fact, but I really don't want to adjust every flash exposure she shoots.

I am using the 18-135 mm Nikkor kit lens and the problem occurs at all focal lengths, even when the subject is extremely close to the camera.

Did anyone else have a similar experience or know what I can do to make the Full Auto mode take better pictures?



  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
chris2c
04th Nov 2006
1
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
KillerD80
05th Nov 2006
2
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
Editorman
05th Nov 2006
3
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills
05th Nov 2006
4
     Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
F2AS Silver Member
05th Nov 2006
5
          Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
chris2c
05th Nov 2006
6
          Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills
05th Nov 2006
7
               Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
Editorman
05th Nov 2006
8
                    Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
bnn110
05th Nov 2006
9
                    Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
chris2c
05th Nov 2006
11
                         Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
peterah
06th Nov 2006
12
                         Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
chris2c
06th Nov 2006
13
                         Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
pixels2
18th Nov 2006
36
                    Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills
05th Nov 2006
10
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
Delta5
06th Nov 2006
14
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
bnn110
06th Nov 2006
15
     Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
chris2c
06th Nov 2006
16
     Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
bsteibel
25th Nov 2006
40
     Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills
06th Nov 2006
17
     Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
nihonbashi Silver Member
07th Nov 2006
19
     Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
chris2c
07th Nov 2006
23
     Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
the bagpiper
15th Nov 2006
33
     Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
Delta5
06th Nov 2006
18
     Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
Delta5
07th Nov 2006
22
          Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
Wounded Knee 45
07th Nov 2006
24
               Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
James23p Moderator Awarded for his wide variety of skills, a true generalist both in film and digital photography
07th Nov 2006
25
     Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
JoeEasy
23rd Nov 2006
39
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources
07th Nov 2006
20
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
bnn110
08th Nov 2006
26
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
aigor
07th Nov 2006
21
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
Delta5
10th Nov 2006
27
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
clever
11th Nov 2006
28
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
KillerD80
12th Nov 2006
29
     Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
riversideray
14th Nov 2006
30
          Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
aigor
14th Nov 2006
31
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
SDdave
14th Nov 2006
32
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
azw
15th Nov 2006
34
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
jon_claypac
17th Nov 2006
35
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
pixels2
18th Nov 2006
37
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
two hour lunch
22nd Nov 2006
38
     Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
dwayner
26th Nov 2006
41
Reply message Some thoughts - micro highlights are preserved with fla
kocho
27th Nov 2006
42
Reply message RE: Some thoughts - micro highlights are preserved with
selkie
28th Nov 2006
43
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
helton
03rd Dec 2006
44
Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
JeremyUK
10th Dec 2006
45
     Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
Louppls Silver Member
10th Dec 2006
46
          Reply message RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode
kenmof61
12th Dec 2006
47

chris2c Registered since 04th Nov 2006Sat 04-Nov-06 11:11 PM
6 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#1. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 0


UK
          

Hi

I have noticed that I get exactly the same problem. I reckon auto is at least 1 stop out. Will be interested to see whether you get any responses/suggestions!

Regards

Chris

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
KillerD80 Registered since 30th Sep 2006Sun 05-Nov-06 01:41 PM
63 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#2. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 1


US
          

Mine seems to do that also, however if I use manual mode and use an aperture of 3.3 or larger they come out fine. You might see what aperture your camera is using in auto mode and maybe switch to aperture priority mode and adjust from there.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Editorman Registered since 06th Sep 2006Sun 05-Nov-06 01:54 PM
203 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#3. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 0


Toronto, CA
          

A fellow in my local camera store said that if you're using a non-DX lens with pop-up flash the camera will under-expose because it doesn't take into account the 1.5X factor. Haven't tested this on my D80, but it might be food for thought.

Paul
Nikonian in Toronto

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sun 05-Nov-06 02:05 PM
29326 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#4. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 3


Paignton, UK
          

>A fellow in my local camera store said that if you're using
>a non-DX lens with pop-up flash the camera will under-expose
>because it doesn't take into account the 1.5X factor.

That sounds like a misconception on the part of the guy in the store. It is true that speedlights adjust their angle of coverage for the actual lens focal length rather than the "effective" focal length, but this would apply equally to DX and non-DX lenses. Also, I'm not sure the built-in flash changes its coverage angle anyway. Bottom line, though, the i-TTL metering takes care of all that, and exposure should be correct with any type of lens.

To the original poster - what was you subject distance? It is possible that you were outside the range of the built-in flash.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
F2AS Silver Member Nikonian since 23rd Nov 2005Sun 05-Nov-06 02:14 PM
498 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#5. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 4


Washington, US
          

He may have a point, because if you were to take a 50mm lens on a D80, you are going to have to stand further away from the subject to get the same area of coverage than if you were using a 50mm lens on a 35mm film camera. Or would the flash somehow compensate for that?

Mike

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
chris2c Registered since 04th Nov 2006Sun 05-Nov-06 03:59 PM
6 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 5


UK
          

I was using an 18-200 Dx at 18mm in a reasonably well lit average size room. ie therefore I believe range was not the issue. Also if I ajusted the flash compensation in P mode by +1, exposure was spot on, so I assume that range of the flash is not the issue. I was just trying to ascertain whether the underexposure of the inbuilt flash in full auto mode was commom to all D80s (ie a feature!) or whether mine had a particular issue. Its easy to get around the issue, I was just surprised by the amount it underexposed.

Regards

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sun 05-Nov-06 04:00 PM
29326 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#7. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 5


Paignton, UK
          

The camera meters the scene (and controls how much flash illumination is required) as it sees it. It makes no difference whether you're using a DX or non-DX lens, or what focal length you are using.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Editorman Registered since 06th Sep 2006Sun 05-Nov-06 04:47 PM
203 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#8. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 7


Toronto, CA
          

Brian;

I'm a little over my head here, but I'll ask my question anyway. (Actually, as I was writing this I may have answered my own question, but I'll still go ahead). If the D80 controls how much flash illumination is required, and due to the 1.5x factor 50% more illumination is actually required, wouldn't you therefore get underexposed images? If I'm using a 50mm lens, the focal length is actually 1.5x or 75mm. But the camera/flash "thinks" it's using a 50mm lens and therefore illuminates for that lens. (Where I may have answered my own question is the camera/flash does not "think" there is a 50mm lens, but rather, as you said above, the camera meters the scene, "sees" a true focal length of 75mm, and illuminates accordingly).

Does this then negate what the fellow in the camera store said?

Paul

Paul
Nikonian in Toronto

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
bnn110 Registered since 25th Oct 2006Sun 05-Nov-06 05:38 PM
5 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#9. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 8



          

I originally discovered the metering issue using medium to low lighting indoors with the built-in flash, amd it appears the subject distance doesn't matter. I get the same results a majority of the time -- at least 1 stop underexposed.

I have since experimented in auto mode under various lighting conditions, and I find the same result, almost always underexposed, except in the best lighting conditions.

This only occurs in the full auto mode, which doesn't really affect the operation of the camera except as a point and shoot, which my better half prefers.

Does anyone use the camera in full auto with good results in less than perfect lighting?

Rob

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
chris2c Registered since 04th Nov 2006Sun 05-Nov-06 09:27 PM
6 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#11. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 9


UK
          

Getting back to Rob's original point & his follow up, as far as I can see there are 3 people on this thread who have the same problem as Rob, with under exposure in auto mode, in low light conditions. 2 out of the 3 & possible the 3rd are using DX lenses, so some of the points raised are perhaps not relevant to the original question. Whilst everyone seems to know how to get around the problem, no-one seems to have said that they don't experience the problem, which implies so far that there is actually a "fault". I have a further question. Does the metering in Nikon cameras in auto mode attempt to create well exposed images, or would the camera meter in "underexposing" a low light image merely be reflecting the fact that the subject was not well lit in the first instance.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
peterah Registered since 29th Oct 2005Mon 06-Nov-06 09:12 AM
718 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#12. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 11


Durban, ZA
          

I think that the main problem here is that the built in flash is "weak" with a GN of only 13. If you are shooting with an aperture of f/5.6 for example, then the built in flash will only have an effective range of 13/5.6 = 2.3m (not enough to light up a room.

I did a quick test: using the D80 with built in flash and aperture at f/5.6. Result dark. Reduced the aperture to f/2. Result much better. Replaced the onboard flash with SB800 (GN=56). Results great.

I think that the camera is trying to correctly expose using the built-in flash without blowing any details in foreground objects, and quite frankly cannot cope with the amount of light needed to illuminate the scene.

Cheers
Pete
______________________________
Peter Howells
South Africa
http://www.peterhowells.co.za

Peter
http://www.peterhowells.co.za

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
chris2c Registered since 04th Nov 2006Mon 06-Nov-06 10:07 AM
6 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#13. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 12


UK
          

I agree with you about the limitations of the in-built flash, but it doesn't explain why its correctly exposed in P mode if you increase the flash exposure factor by +1. If the problem was a weak flash, surely the flash would be weak in both modes. Maybe it ups the ISO setting from 100 to 200 in P mode? And if it does why not in Full Auto mode?

Regards

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
pixels2 Registered since 16th Nov 2006Sat 18-Nov-06 06:42 PM
7 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#36. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 11


batavia, US
          

mine has the exact same problem....seems to bo ok outside on brighter days

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sun 05-Nov-06 08:11 PM
29326 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#10. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 8


Paignton, UK
          

I think you've got it, Paul...

The fact that a flash may emit light that illuminates a wider area than the scene being recorded is not relevant. The camera's meter measures only the illumination level of the area that will be within the image, and adjusts the flash duration accordingly. It's actually a bit more compliacted than that, so if we need to go into more detail I'll probably have to call on one of our experts...

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Delta5 Registered since 16th Jan 2006Mon 06-Nov-06 01:33 PM
260 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#14. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 0


London, UK
          

Same here - in Auto mode about 1 stop underexposed using pop-up flash indoors (normal indoor ambient lighting). Distance was 1.5 to 3m.
Setting flash comp of +.07 seemed to correct it.

That was day 1, and at that stage I thought it might be because of the predominantly white / cream walls (like the way snow affects AE) - but I use mainly P or A mode and an SB800, so I haven't had revisited it.

Dv
"Live like you're going to die tomorrow, learn like you're going to live forever." - Gandhi

Dave
Blue Delta Photography

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
bnn110 Registered since 25th Oct 2006Mon 06-Nov-06 02:27 PM
5 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#15. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 14



          

I have to draw the conclusion that there is an inherent problem with D80 metering in full-auto mode when using the built-in flash based on the number of replies to the affirmative.

I too have resorted to using the camera in P mode for indoor point and shoot with the exposure value increased by +.07. Although this workaround enables indoor use of the built-in flash it doesn't really eliminate the underlying full-auto metering problem with the camera. I'm sure the SB600 or SB800 would eliminate the issue, but the point and shoot capability is the way I sold my wife on the idea of a $1300 camera.

If you are experiencing this issue and have not yet replied on this thread, please post your comments, even if you feel it is redundant. I am contemplating forwarding this thread to Nikon engineering and I assume the more universal the issue, the faster it will be resolved.

Rob

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
chris2c Registered since 04th Nov 2006Mon 06-Nov-06 02:47 PM
6 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#16. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 15


UK
          

>If you are experiencing this issue and have not yet replied
>on this thread, please post your comments, even if you feel
>it is redundant. I am contemplating forwarding this thread
>to Nikon engineering and I assume the more universal the
>issue, the faster it will be resolved.
>
>Rob

Excellent idea!

Chris

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
bsteibel Registered since 22nd Dec 2006Sat 25-Nov-06 06:25 PM
5 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#40. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 16


Dix Hills, US
          

I have the identical problem with the same lens. I have to use P mode with .7 compensation.
Bill

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Mon 06-Nov-06 03:21 PM
29326 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#17. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 15


Paignton, UK
          

>I have to draw the conclusion that there is an inherent problem
>with D80 metering in full-auto mode when using the built-in flash
>based on the number of replies to the affirmative.

By my count, we have four members who have seen the problem. That's a pretty small sample.

>If you are experiencing this issue and have not yet replied
>on this thread, please post your comments, even if you feel
>it is redundant.

To get a full and accurate picture, we should also ask D80-owning members who have NOT seen the problem to post here.

>I am contemplating forwarding this thread
>to Nikon engineering and I assume the more universal the
>issue, the faster it will be resolved.

I would still advise each owner who believes they have this problem to contact Nikon Support directly, and include an example image with full details of camera settings.



Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
nihonbashi Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Sep 2002Tue 07-Nov-06 03:02 AM
28 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#19. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 17


CA
          

>>I have to draw the conclusion that there is an inherent problem
>>with D80 metering in full-auto mode when using the built-in flash
>>based on the number of replies to the affirmative.
>
>By my count, we have four members who have seen the problem.
> That's a pretty small sample.
>

Make that 5 members with the same problem.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
chris2c Registered since 04th Nov 2006Tue 07-Nov-06 09:50 PM
6 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#23. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 19


UK
          

Thats 100% of those that tested it and others didn't say they hadn't seen the problem, they just hadn't tested it or were suggesting workarounds

Chris

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
the bagpiper Registered since 15th Nov 2006Wed 15-Nov-06 11:26 AM
14 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#33. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 17


Mosheim, US
          

Hey the bagpiper here. I am a new user and thought I would reply to this message. I have had my D-80 for 6 days and I love the camera. Having been a photographer for about 40 years I have just recently switched to digital. Something I said I would never do!I have found the under exposure in the full auto with the D-80 also. Since I rarely ever use the mode it is not a real problem for me, but it is a problem that a camera that expensive does not preform up to standard. I do need to ask a question about a flash compatability issue but I will leave that to another thread.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Delta5 Registered since 16th Jan 2006Mon 06-Nov-06 05:35 PM
260 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#18. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 15


London, UK
          

> I'm sure the SB600 or SB800 would eliminate the issue,

Hi Rob
I steered clear of Auto mode from the beginning so I haven't tried the SB800 in that mode yet. I'll give it a try and let you know.


Dv
"Live like you're going to die tomorrow, learn like you're going to live forever." - Gandhi

Dave
Blue Delta Photography

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Delta5 Registered since 16th Jan 2006Tue 07-Nov-06 11:17 AM
260 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#22. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 18


London, UK
          

Did a quick test with the SB800 (indoors, normal ambient lighting) and found:

AUTO mode - underexposed by about 1.0 stop.
P mode, with 0.0 flash comp - underexposed by about 0.7 stop.
P mode, with +0.7 flash comp - reasonably well exposed.

In P mode, I got the same results with matrix and CW metering.

The results from the SB800 and the built-in flash appear to be similar.


Dave
Blue Delta Photography

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Wounded Knee 45 Registered since 09th Oct 2006Tue 07-Nov-06 10:53 PM
2 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#24. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 22



          

>P mode, with 0.0 flash comp - underexposed by about 0.7
>stop.
>P mode, with +0.7 flash comp - reasonably well exposed.

I've had my D80 for about a month. I shot a bunch of photos at a Halloween party indoors using a SB600 with a Sto-fen difuser bounced off an 8 foot white ceiling using P mode, spot metering, and 0.0 flash comp. All of my photos seemed to be 0.3 to 0.7 underexposed.

Christian

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
James23p Moderator Awarded for his wide variety of skills, a true generalist both in film and digital photography Nikonian since 25th Apr 2004Tue 07-Nov-06 11:38 PM
9853 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#25. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 24


Memphis, US
          

I have the SB600 and with the stofen difuser and the bouncing off the cieling you may have not had enough power. I really like my SB600 but it is not powerful enough for dark rooms bounced off the ceiling using a difuser.

Next using spot metering what part of your picture was underexposed? If the main subject is well exposed but the surroundings are dark this may be a product of metering only 1 to 2% of the picture. Kind Regards Jim

Share, Learn and Inspire
www.nikonians.org




I will use film until the last roll and last lab are gone. Go Navy

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
JoeEasy Registered since 21st Nov 2006Thu 23-Nov-06 01:31 PM
10 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#39. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 15


US
          

I have had my new D80 for several weeks and am also experiencing problems with under exposure indoors with built-in flash while shooting in Auto mode. I have to enhance most pictures brightness after shooting with the software. I also have the 18-135mm lens.

I do not think the problem is related to flash or lens, but rather the Matrix metering. The problem can be resolved by shooting in other modes, but my spouse also would prefer the P&S technique in Auto mode.

Maybe if enough people complain Nikon will make a firmware change.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberTue 07-Nov-06 04:24 AM
35231 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#20. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 0


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

With an external flash:
For interiors you should use TTL only.
For exteriors TTL + BL
P mode for me means Perfect pictures.

I don't own a D80.
Can you make these settings on your built-in flash?

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy and the product catalog of the Photo Pro Shop

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
bnn110 Registered since 25th Oct 2006Wed 08-Nov-06 10:04 AM
5 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#26. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 20



          

I realize the D80 was not designed to be used primarily in full-auto mode, however, it was designed TO be used in full-auto mode; probably for the same reason I purchased the camera, to allow a novice to shoot excellent photos or an amateur to fire up and shoot some quick, well exposed snapshots.

I have no problem using the custom settings, but my wife is a "point and shoot" photographer and she has no desire to learn to use the D80 in anything but full-auto mode.

Other posters have tested my hypothesis that there is an inherent metering issue in full-auto mode and concluded the same as I; the metering is off by a full stop in indoor, low light situations using the built-in flash.

1] It is not a flash power problem. The fact that the flash exposure factor can be increased in P mode with good results indicates that it is not a flash power issue.

2] It is not a lighting conditions problem. The fact that the ISO, the shutter speed and the aperture can be adjusted in P mode with good results indicates that lighting conditions can be overcome with the hardware.

3] Is it a metering problem? Since the photographer has no control of the camera settings in full-auto mode, the number of respondents testing this hypothesis with positive results, and the lack of anyone posting negative results, leads me to believe this is a metering issue in the firmware.

If anyone has good results using the built-in flash in low light, in FULL-AUTO mode, please post your comments. Likewise, if you are also experiencing underexposures under these conditions, please post your comments. I would like to gather some additional input before I follow up on this issue with Nikon.

Thanks,

Rob

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

aigor Registered since 07th Nov 2006Tue 07-Nov-06 08:18 AM
7 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#21. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 0


SI
          

I have the same problem with external sb-600 flash.

I also noticed that if I set sb-600 foom to 14mm picture is now overexposed.
(To set flash zoom to 14mm I just pull build-in diffusor just a little. If diffusor is fitted correctly then the picture is underexposed again.)

regards

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Delta5 Registered since 16th Jan 2006Fri 10-Nov-06 05:12 PM
260 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#27. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 0


London, UK
          

Seems there are quite a few of us seeing this problem, and so far no-one has said that are NOT seeing it.
Just wondering, has anyone contacted Nikon about it yet?

Dv
"Live like you're going to die tomorrow, learn like you're going to live forever." - Gandhi

Dave
Blue Delta Photography

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

clever Registered since 17th Sep 2006Sat 11-Nov-06 09:50 PM
13 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#28. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 0


AU
          

I am also experiencing the same problem, & like many others I also sold my partner on the fact that she would be able to take great point and shoot photos with this camera. I'm using the 18-135 kit lens.

It's easy enought to correct in photoshop but I don't want to have to do that with every photo I take, especially as we seem to fill up our 2 GB card every few days!

Craig
South Australia

http://groups.myspace.com/nikond80owners

Craig
South Australia

http://groups.myspace.com/nikond80owners

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
KillerD80 Registered since 30th Sep 2006Sun 12-Nov-06 02:41 AM
63 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#29. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 28


US
          

My D80 underexposes also in P,A,S or auto mode. However, what I have done to adjust for that is set fv lock to the function button. The first time I enter a room, I pop up the flash and hit the function button to lock the flash and every picture after that comes out nicely exposed.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
riversideray Registered since 28th Mar 2006Tue 14-Nov-06 04:27 AM
6 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#30. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 29


US
          

My camera is exposing correctly when using the onboard flash in auto mode. I tried it with a Tamron 17-50mm 2.8 and Nikon 85mm 1.8. Exposures were right on the money with either lens.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
aigor Registered since 07th Nov 2006Tue 14-Nov-06 08:50 PM
7 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#31. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 30


SI
          

Yes, with 50/1.8 lens exposures are OK at any aperture!??

It seems that non DX lens works OK!??

regards


  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

SDdave Registered since 04th Sep 2006Tue 14-Nov-06 10:01 PM
38 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#32. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 0


San Diego, US
          

I have the problem also with an 18-200 VR DX lens (the only lens I use till Xmas). One thing I haven't seen mentioned in the posts is that it's a good idea to check the flash icon in the viewfinder after taking a shot. If it blinks, the flash was fired using maximum power and the shot could be underexposed. Having said that, my icon is not blinking and, if there's no compensation, almost all indoor flash pictures are under-exposed.

Dave

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

azw Registered since 15th Nov 2006Wed 15-Nov-06 04:34 PM
4 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#34. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

I just wanted to chime in and say that I have the exact same problem with my D80 that I picked up this last Saturday.

All of the photos taken indoors with the built-in flash with the kit lense (18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 DX) turn out about 1 stop underexposed.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

jon_claypac Registered since 17th Nov 2006Fri 17-Nov-06 10:48 AM
1 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#35. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 0


Nottingham, UK
          

Hi all, just got my new D80 for 5 days today and found the same problem with underexposure in full auto mode when using the built-in flash. It turns out great when the flash is disabled/turned off. Am using lens kit 18-135mm/3.5-5.6G.

Same problem in PSAM mode without adjustment but great with adjustment to the shutter/aperture/compensation/whitebalance.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

pixels2 Registered since 16th Nov 2006Sat 18-Nov-06 06:46 PM
7 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#37. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 0


batavia, US
          

i also sold my wife on the point and shoot idea....can nikon come up with a download that fixes this?does the d200 do this?

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
two hour lunch Registered since 19th Sep 2004Wed 22-Nov-06 06:07 AM
156 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#38. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 37


US
          

For what it's worth, I looked at a stack of printed D80 photos today---I was really impressed with the quality of the lighting, color, etc. When I asked the person showing the photos if he had experienced any exposure problems, he shrugged and said "I dunno--I just leave it on Auto and shoot away."

They were vacation shots so there was a variety of lighting and situations.

I was pretty impressed that he was using his camera as a "point and shoot" and the photos came out so well.

Two hour lunch
Lead me not into temptation; I can find it myself. Rita Mae Brown

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
dwayner Registered since 15th Jan 2005Sun 26-Nov-06 07:27 PM
262 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#41. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 38


Calgary, CA
          

Can anyone post some samples and settings used????


  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

kocho Basic MemberMon 27-Nov-06 07:59 PM
1756 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#42. "Some thoughts - micro highlights are preserved with fla"
In response to Reply # 0


Metro DC, US
          

Here is my 5 minute analysis...Having only shot a dozen or so pictures with flash on the D80 I reserve the right to change my mind

What I seem to notice is that the metering is very conservative and tends to presetve highlights when flash is used (not to be confused with the non-flash overexposure tendency, so let's look at flash exposure only).

I shot a bunch of things in the office and many turned out fine. Some appear underexposed, but within the usable margins with post processing.

However when looking at a supposedly underexposed image of my wanderul carpet more carefully, I observed this. If I just open the image and look at it at say 25% magnification (the entire image fits the screen on my PC) the histogram indeed shows underexposure by neary the entire right 1/4 on the histogram is empty with not even a blimp. Not much changes if I select a small area (100x100 pixels would do) where there are highlights. The only thing that changes is that the histogram is now more like a bunch of vertical lines rather than a smooth cone. However, if I begin to zoom-in on screen things begin to change. At 100% not much of a change. However, keep zooming till you begin to see the pixels as little squares. At least magnify to 600% or 800%. Move your cursor around and observe how the point on the histogram moves with the cursor - select a dark pixel the point is on the left, select a bright pixel - the point moves right. Now, try and select one of the brightest pixels you can find and watch the histogram point - in my test I can pick pixels or clisters of pixels that show as very close to the right on the histogram, but there is still no blimp on the histogram to show that there is anything there.

What I mean in simple words is that the metering seems to be trying to preserve "micro highlights" at the expense of the overall underexposure. So in conclusion, the D80 is not underexposing with Flash but is preserving the highlights too diligently. Does this remind you of the D70/D70s "underexposure" vs. "preserve the highlights" argument? It does to me...

Now, this does not change the fact that the camera produces some darker than desired pictures and whether you like it or not is a personal matter. From what I read here, dialing-in EV compensation produces good results, so that is a solution I suppose, until Nikon comes-up with a fix, which would hopefully inclide a more conservative approach to outdoor no/flash highlights (which seem to be handled just the opposite to the flash highlights)...

Oily faces are perfect for creating micro highlights as I was able to determine by shooting myself in the face a couple of times So my "people" shots were dark (not underexposed, mind you), where my inanimate objects tests were more forgiving when there were no significant reflective areas.

I think it is a fewture

Thoughts?

My PBase Gallery Favorites

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
selkie Registered since 21st Oct 2006Tue 28-Nov-06 12:58 AM
1 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#43. "RE: Some thoughts - micro highlights are preserved with"
In response to Reply # 42


US
          

I've lost count on how many experience this "feature" but add another one to the list.
I just thought the built in flash was poor - thnaks for pointing me in the right direction.
BTW:- I'm using a 18-200 VR lens

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

helton Registered since 30th Jul 2007Sun 03-Dec-06 11:53 PM
558 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#44. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 0


São Paulo, BR
          

Hi,

I´m having this same underexposure problem with my D80, but in A mode and using a SB-800.

See this for an example:

http://www.nikonians.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=905&forum=DCForumID236

Helton

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
JeremyUK Registered since 08th Nov 2006Sun 10-Dec-06 02:09 AM
11 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#45. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 44


Los Angeles, US
          

I'll just chime in here and add my D80 to the list. I've has mine 6 weeks and noticed the underexposed indoor flash shots from day one. The exposure is spot on, however, in extreme close-ups using my 18-55 lens at any focal length. I have also just purchased the D40 and can report that indoor flash exposure of identical subject and conditions is perfect exposure. I did a side by side test with my D80. I guess they fixed the issue for the D40.

D80, 12-24, 35/f2, 85/1.8, 180/2.8, SB600

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Louppls Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Dec 2006Sun 10-Dec-06 01:32 PM
246 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#46. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 45


Grosse Pointe Woods, US
          

Hey all...

I've found the best success is to bug company executives to look at doing a firmware update. I've had success along these lines with other products.

If anyone knows key Nikon USA exectives names and emails, post them, and we should send emails.

**You'll get much faster actions top down, than bottom up,** Especially with negative publicity.

---
Lou
louppls.smugmug.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
kenmof61 Registered since 11th Dec 2006Tue 12-Dec-06 12:44 AM
37 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#47. "RE: Underexposure in Full Auto mode"
In response to Reply # 46


Motherwell, UK
          

Add another to the list. I use the D80 18-135 kit with an SB-600 - seriously underexposed.

Central Scotland.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Forums Lobby GET TO KNOW YOUR CAMERA & MASTER IT Nikon D90/D80/D70 (Public) topic #4850 Previous topic | Next topic