I am a new Nikon user and have a D-80. I understand that the Nikon 70-300mm ED-IF AF-S VR lens will not have auto focus capabilities when used with the D80. Is that true?
If it is true does anyone know anything about the Tamron AF75-300mm F4.5-5.6 LD Macro (1:3.9) lens? We are shooting pics of horses at horse shows. Thanks. Is there a better option to the Nikon lens if it does not offer auto focus with the D-80 in the same price range? Thanks.

That is incorrect. the 70-300 VR will autofocus with the D80.

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Thank you for your answer. I was told the Nikon lens was inferior to the Tamron lens in that the Nikon lens couldn't operate autofocus on the D-80 because "a pin" necessary to the operation of the autofocus capabilities of the Nikon wasn't present in the D-80. I would have to focus manually, which I can focus well manually and have for years. This is my first foray into digital . I certainly want the best option. I am buying as a kit and the Nikon lens is included. They tell me that I would be happier with the Tamron lens.

Thanks for your help. I want to get this right the first time.

>Thank you for your answer. I was told the Nikon lens was
>inferior to the Tamron lens in that the Nikon lens couldn't
>operate autofocus on the D-80 because "a pin"
>necessary to the operation of the autofocus capabilities of
>the Nikon wasn't present in the D-80.

As Armando says, what you have been told is incorrect on two counts...

Firstly, the D80 does not lack the AF drive "pin" (usually called a "screwdriver" coupling) - only the lower-end D40, D40X and D60 do not have this pin. Secondly, only older AF Nikkor lenses need the "screwdriver" coupling - this particular 70-300mm VR lens, like all "AF-S" Nikkors, has its own AF motor so it will autofocus on any Nikon body anyway

This Nikkor is generally agreed to have better image quality than any of the 3rd Party alternatives like the Tamron you mention. It will be faster to focus, and has the added benefit of VR.

You'll find a lot more relevant discussions over in our Nikkor Lenses Forum

Brian
Welsh Nikonian
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Thank you very much. I will get the Nikon lens. This is a great forum. Hopefully the transition I go through from using a simple SLR manual camera, a very good one that I've been happy with for years, to digital will be a pleasure. I wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't for the fact that film processing has gone through the tubes into mass production that offers little in quality. The only way to stay in film is to process yourself. Otherwise you are stuck with the worst. It' intimidating to go from setting things manually and knowing that you know what you know about settings to relying upon auto digital cameras, but I feel the Nikon represents the best of these capabilities. If the professionals are choosing Nikon, that tells me something. Best regards, Raymond

Hi Raymond,
Welcome to Nikonians! The D80 will allow you to to shoot in Manual mode if you wish just like you are used to. It will also allow you to use Program mode, Aperture priority mode, or Shutter priority mode. Everything that you learned from your manual film camera you can apply to your Digital camera. The one thing that may take some getting used to is adjusting the ISO, more so lowering the settings after using high ISO for dark conditions. You could also use Auto ISO. Good Luck and ENJOY your new D80.
Best Regards,
Marty

Thanks Marty. As I go through this, I know where to come for answers to question.
Raymond

Welcome Raymond and congrats on the D80! I have this lens and I have a D80 and they are fantastic together. Plus anytime you have a question feel free to ask here as we have many helpful D80 users that are more than willing to help out new users.

Again welcome and I think you will love the 70-300VR.

Jim

Share, Learn and Inspire
www.nikonians.org



I will use film until the last roll and last lab are gone. Go Navy

Hi everyone. I'm back again. I found out that the package comes with the Nikon 55-200mm AF-S VR and not the 70-300mm. They offered a Tamron 75-300 mm lense no VR instead.
My thought is this, How much of a difference is 200mm to 300mm. The VR is going to be important because I don't care how calm you are, a long lense without VR is going to be shakey unless you are a brain surgeon. Again,the long distance shooting is going to be of horses ie, barrel racers, eventing etc. so I don't know how close I can get at times or
if I can always have the camera on a tripod. I know ideally to shoot using tripod.

So, take the Nikon 55-200 VR or the TAmron 75-300 no VR? Any thoughts out there? Thanks. Raymond

Bear in mind that VR compensates for camera shake but won't prevent motion blur on moving subjects. You could end up with a blurred horse on sharp grass. A tripod will obviously give the same effect. To stop motion you need fast shutter speed, and given a certain amount of available light your options are to up the iso or open the aperture... or cheat with a flash, although it may struggle with your long distance shots.

The maximum aperture is a feature of the lens and the larger the max aperture the more it costs. A quick google reveals that the max aperture of the 55-200 and Tamron 75-300 is the same, namely 5.6. This is average for a consumer level zoom. Pro-level zooms usually open up to 2.8 which is 2 steps further from 5.6, ie takes in 4 times as much light, ie allows shutter speeds 1/4 of those at 5.6. So for example if your iso setting and the amount of available light allows you to shoot 1/150 at f/5.6, you could shoot 1/600 at f/2.8.

I think the big questions are: a) do you anticipate to shoot (fast) moving objects, b) will you primarly be shooting inside or outside, c) would your budget allow you to consider a f/2.8 zoom (the Nikon 80-200 f/2.8 is a relative bargain at around $900 new)?

Thanks for the help. I will be challenged both with indoor and outdoor shooting. Large indoor areana areas and outside eventing present challenges. I certainly know the value of a lens offering f2.8 v. f5.6. Perhaps instead of a "kit" approach to this purchase I should assemble it piece by piece to get exactly what I can for the money. Are there other options in lens choices that will give me the long lens, best stability possible and a higher apeture opening, ie. f2.8? Am I stuck in the $900.00 range for a long lens 200mm-300mm or are there some good alternatives to nikon lenses that can better fit in my budget without big losses of quality? Thanks for the help and thanks for the tip setting up my camera for better manual focusing. Raymond.

As far as I know, the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 is about $800 and the Tamron equivalent a little cheaper (around $700). Sigma also makes a 100-300 f/4 for about $1k. Check eBay and the seller forums on this site for second hand offerings though.

Inevitably these lenses are one step up from the base level zooms so probable no getting away from paying extra in terms of $$$ and weight.

I will be challenged both with indoor
>and outdoor shooting. Large indoor areana areas and outside
>eventing present challenges. I certainly know the value of a
>lens offering f2.8 v. f5.6.

I shoot mostly indoors, and have found that f/2.8 doesn't come any where near "fast" enough to shoot what I need to shoot without flash or resorting to horrendously high ISO settings. The D80 is an amazing camera ... until it gets into the high ISO range. You'll hear a lot of people say that with high ISO and some good post-processing, you'll get perfectly useable pictures with the D80 (some suggest the program "Noise Ninja"). But this increases the learning curve yet again (at least it did for me).

I'd suggest that you get as fast a lens as you can afford, and then play with it using high ISO levels as often as you really must in trying to get enough light into the camera; but postpone learning serious noise reduction in post-processing until after you've got reasonably comfortable with post-processing pictures which are already pretty good to begin with. Post-processing has its own learning curve, and "fixing" dodgy pix is obviously harder than touching up good ones. Learn to do PP on easy victims photographs first.

In order of affordability, you might look at the 50mm f/1.8, the 50mm f/1.4, the 85mm f/1.8, and then the 80-200 f/2.8. I buy my lenses used on eBay from really trustworthy sellers ... and I've been able to afford far more in terms of quality and number of lenses than I would were I to buy them new. Of all the lenses I named, only the 80-200 f/2.8 will have the kind of reach you'll want for large arena's, but all the others (which will be too short) will deliver far better pictures, at least of anything going on on the near side of the arena, than any of the kit lenses.

> Perhaps instead of a
>"kit" approach to this purchase I should assemble it
>piece by piece to get exactly what I can for the money.

IMHO, you should always buy the kit. Kit lenses, when included with an actual kit, are an amazingly good deal financially. They aren't thrown in for free, but if you compare prices of the camera w/lens and w/o lens, you'll find that the difference in price is shockingly small.

If you're not planning to use the lens that comes in the kit, get the cheapest kit you can (eg. buy the 18-55 II kit rather than the 18-200VR kit). Then sell the lens on eBay, or here on Nikonians. You'll end up with a net expenditure that is less than if you were to buy the body alone.

If you're not familiar with eBay, buying things on eBay is the best introduction. You should bid on and successfully buy something, at least a few times, before you try to sell anything on eBay. Anything ssmall or inexpensive you've been planning to go downtown to buy, do a search for it on eBay so that you can work yourself into the culture. You'll do a better job of setting up the auction and completing the sale, you'll start out with some feedback to give you credibility, and you'll get a better price.

>Are there other options in lens choices that will give me the long
>lens, best stability possible and a higher apeture opening,
>ie. f2.8? Am I stuck in the $900.00 range for a long lens
>200mm-300mm or are there some good alternatives to nikon
>lenses that can better fit in my budget without big losses of
>quality?

You'll probably get a much more informed answer if you post this question directly in the lens forum!

Good luck!

-- LaDonna

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Ok, ISO has to be a term relative to digital photo taking. Right? I'm not familiar with it. Help!
And also, thanks for all the great answers. I am getting to the point of putting something together in my head. Also, do you know about the Nikon pro. High capacity EN-EL3e "Hight Powered Li-ion Battery. It's $149.00. How much time can I get from this battery or are they all the same. I see others much much cheaper. Is this splitting hairs or does a high end battery really mean a big difference in the time allowed for shooting on that battery? Sorry to
go off in another tangent, but it's all a part of the decision making process. Thanks!

>Ok, ISO has to be a term relative to digital photo taking.
>Right? I'm not familiar with it. Help!

ISO comes from the days of film. Whenever I went steppin' with my P&S, I considered where I was going. If it was broad summer and I was at the beach, I'd ask for a roll of ISO 100. If I was back home in the Netherlands, and/or it was winter, and/or I was going to be in some kind of theater, I'd ask for ISO 400. If I had no idea, or if I was going to be going back and forth w/ the same roll of film, I'd compromise and ask for ISO 200.

I had absolutely no idea what any of these numbers meant, mind. I just learned from asking the guy at the kiosk which kind of film to buy depending on where I was going to be.

It turns out (I know now, from reading photo books) that film with high ISO (400 or above) is more sensitive to light, so you can take pictures in dim light and still have the image show up on the film. BUT, the down-side is that high ISO film produces grainy pictures.

The miracle-feature of digital cameras is that you aren't stuck with a given ISO level for a whole roll of film. You can have ISO 200 for one picture, ISO 800 for the next, and then go out into broad daylight and change to ISO 100. Good stuff, eh?

That's because ISO isn't set on the "film" (there isn't any); rather, ISO is set in the camera.

Most beginners just leave the ISO function set to "automatic" for a while, and let the camera pick the ISO it needs to make the exposure. If you alrady know how to pick the ISO needed for different situations, though, you can leave the ISO setting on manual, and change it to your liking. (That also means that you can experiment as you shoot; if the pix are coming out too dark, you simply set the ISO level higher, take a few pix, check the monitor to see if your pix are coming out, and set it even higher if necessary.

High ISO film produced grain. High ISO digital cameras produce "noise." Looks similar to grain, has a similar effect on your pictures (they look kind of "dirty"), you don't want it.

"Post-processing" is the process of getting your pix to the printer (be that you yourself or a photo lab). With film, it was called "developing" the film. I never touched the film. The photo lab developed it.

With digital, the camera develops the film. The difference between older digital bodies and newer ones is, among other things, the sophistication of the software the camera uses to "develop" the images. Newer model = better camera software.

If you're brand new, you set your camera to auto-everything at first, take the pictures, take the "developed" memory card out of the camera and hand it to the photo lab (or your printer) and print the pictures. As that becomes easier, you learn to take the "developed" memory card, put it into your computer, and check the camera's work. The pictures are already "developed," but you get to look over the work and make "fixes" when you think the camera did a bad job. This is called "post-processing." You can do seriously simple things, such as crop, which edits out parts of the picture you don't want, such as all the area around a horse if you took the picture with a not-quite-long-enough telephoto lens ... you crop the picture so that all the grass and grandstands and officials standing on the sidelines are gone and the entire picture is filled with just the horse, as though you'd had a much more powerful telephoto lens in the first place.

If the photo is too dark, you can make it lighter; too light and you can make it darker; etc. etc.

And one of the things you can do is reduce the "noise," so that the picture looks "cleaner," like it would have had you not been shooting at a high ISO level.

Point of this post is that the D80, like almost all reasonably priced digital cameras older than a year or so, has software which isn't very good at processing the pictures if there's a high level of noise. So if you want low noise, you have to have a faster lens, a more expensive camera, or learn to use computer software to clean up the noise.

Hope that all makes sense!

-- LaDonna

PS: One of the best things I did before I bought my camera is to buy the digital photography book to go with it. I highly recommend you consider doing the same! That's because not only will all these issues become much clearer to you, but also because most books on digital photography actually spend the entire first part on helping you choose your camera. The book will raise issues you didn't even know you had! And it will make it all that much more fun when you finally get the thing in your hands. It might be a week, or even a couple months, before you have your camera. But depending on where you live, you could have a seriously good book on digital photography for beginners in your hands tonight!

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

thank you for a great explaination of ISO, what I've always referred to as the film speed!
Ok. so now I know how I can manipulate the exposure one more way with digital that I had in my hands with my little OM-1. Love that camera only wish I could find lenses for it again.

I use Illustrator and am pretty good at that software. I have photoshop as well and am in puppy stages of getting that one. Someone once said those who choose Adobe Illustrator tend not to learn as extensively Photoshop and vice versa. It's true. But having photoshop allows be great ability to make up for my inadequacies in circumstances and my ability or lack of ability in shooting. If you are familiar with Adobe Photoshop, there is a great web site for everyone who wants great tutorials for that software. I've learned easy simply steps for making up for poor conditions and in turn getting a great photo out the deal anyway.
http://www.worth1000.com/tutorials.asp

Enjoy every one who has ever thought of stepping up to professional levels or non professional levels of Photoshop.

Thanks LaDonna. Raymond.

>thank you for a great explaination of ISO, what I've always
>referred to as the film speed!

You mean I had you wade through that fire hydrant of verbage when all I needed to say is "It's film speed, Raymond."

??!!!??

Sorry about that!!!

Ok, so I've learned an important lesson, too, or at least broadened my vocabularly in film-photographer-speak. Live and (seriously) learn!!!

I'm back to Photoshop Elements, after having nearly burned the thing (computer and all) when I was first trying to learn how to use it. I switched to Capture NX, got a fantastic book, and learned what on earth is going on with photo-editing. Now that I'm back to Photoshop, Idefinitely appreciate the tip! I've bookmarked it. Thanks for the learning-trade!

-- LaDonna

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Please don't change. Your long answer was great. I learned more about the digital applications to "film speed" thanks to your making it clear that iso is film speed. Cool to learn. Enjoy the photoshop tutorials in every way. I am all about Adobe. Illustrator is incredible stuff for vector art which advertising requires. Photoshop is also incredible and the CS3 is even more capable than ever before. The cool part is that there are just as many willing to share their skills in photoshop as there are with Nikonians. What a great world in some aspects. Enjoy and thanks for the help. I'm going to nail this down pretty fast. Need to make an internet commercial for our products, www.whinnywarmers.com. It's always a steep learning curve when you know you need the tools, then get the tools, then learn how to use the tools, and meet deadlines!!!! Yikes! Everyone is being really helpful and if you have horses, let me know. Maybe we can return the favor.

>Please don't change. Your long answer was great.

Oh my goodness ... somebody that actually appreciated one of my LONG answers. Please don't tell my husband. He spends most of his life trying to get me to "bring this to a close ..." He certainly wouldn't want to hear anybody encouraging me ...

:-D

In the meantime, two things:

Have you checked out the D80 Digitutor?

And, now that I know that you aren't remotely the newbie that I took you for — you're new to digital photography but not remotely new to photography in general, nor even to digital editing — may I suggest that you fill out your profile! (Home Page > User Menu > Edit Your Prefernces; and make sure you go through at least the tabs named "General" and "Equipment"). That way when you ask a question, people will know more information than you even know is relevant to tell them in your post, and you'll get far better answers.

-- LaDonna

Horse ... yeah right. In his dreams. I'm having a hard enough time paying for all this camera equipment. Didn't I mention that I buy it all USED???

;-D
_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

>do you know about the Nikon pro. High capacity EN-EL3e
>"Hight Powered Li-ion Battery. It's $149.00. How much
>time can I get from this battery or are they all the same.

I just use the Nikon EN-EL3e that came with the camera, and another genuine Nikon EN-EL3e that I got off eBay (you can do much better than $149 on eBay), and figure I'm done with it. The quality of my battery is simply one thing I don't feel like having to fret about.

If you're taking pictures of anything moving, however, it IS important that you buy high quality, fast memory cards. I use the Extreme III by Sandisk, and I'm happy. After I got sick and tired of taking entire lifetimes to download my pictures to my computer, I bought an Extreme card reader (the USB version, also by Sandisk) as well, to replace the cheap-o card reader I had, and now I'm verrrrry happy.

(That is, except that I want a D300. This issue of the noise is driving me crazy, and there's a limit to how many high end lenses I can buy, or carry around with me, even using eBay!)

-- LaDonna

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

>Welcome to Nikonians! The D80 will allow you to to shoot in
>Manual mode if you wish just like you are used to.

Marty's right, Raymond, but you should be aware of one "but":

Manual SLR's assume you're going to be focussing manually, and so their focusing screens, etc. are designed accordingly. The D80 (and most consumer digital cameras) assume that you're going to be using auto-focus, and so they don't build the manual-focus aids into the camera. There is a little green dot that lights up when the camera thinks you're in focus, but if you have the camera in manual focus, focus the lens, and then play with the focus ring, you'll see that the little green dot doesn't disappear immediately. There is definitely a range of points that the camera calls "in focus." At large apertures this is not a trivial issue.

If you want manual focus and truly be in charge of just how in focus you are, you might want to consider buying a Katz Eye focusing screen, which will have the prism that you're probably used to using as you manual focus.

I'm completely new to SLRs altogether, but I'd like to learn how to manual focus (in spite of the fact that it's a lost cause; I'm blind as a bat ), so I got a Katz Eye focusing screen for my D80. It's awesome! And if you get one, make sure you get the OptiBrite version; that lets more light into the viewfinder so that you can see well enough to focus.

Otherwise, let me add my words of welcome! I hope you have a blast.

-- LaDonna

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

LaDonna:

Thanks for the tip on the Katz Eye focus screen. I checked out their site and learned that usually the buyer installs the screen themselves; supposedly simple. Did you end up installing yours? How difficult was it? and Once installed does it interfere with any of the cameras functions (autofocus?, metering?). Any negatives from your point of view (lame pun intended)?

Inquiring minds want to know

Tim

TIMages Gallery 2010

"Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas. It is a creative art." Ansel Adams

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Visit my Nikonians gallery.

>Thanks for the tip on the Katz Eye focus screen. I checked
>out their site and learned that usually the buyer installs the
>screen themselves; supposedly simple. Did you end up
>installing yours? How difficult was it? and Once installed
>does it interfere with any of the cameras functions
>(autofocus?, metering?). Any negatives from your point of
>view (lame pun intended)?

You're quite welcome!

Almost all the people who answered the same question for me last year said that it's a cinch to install. But I also read, in other threads, conversations where Katz Eye veterans were giving each others, and new converts, tips on how they got theirs into the camera.

I was a complete and utter newbie at the time (I don't know whether that makes me merely a complete newbie now, or merely an utter newbie; gotta figure out the rungs on the scale sometime) and was already scared to death about touching anything at all inside my camera. I certainly wasn't going to do anything else that might need, or benefit from, TIPS on how to do it successfully.

Here's the few possibilities I know about, in terms of paying somebody else to install it for you:

• Rachel Katz will install the thing herself, if you send her your camera along with, or a little while after, you place the order. Contact Rachel via the Katz Eye site for more information.



• Call up a local authorized Nikon Service Center, or a local authorized Nikon repair center, and ask them if they'll install it for you. If it's Nikon, they will surely have heard of Katz Eye. If it's merely a local authorized repair shop, you might need to send them some information first.



• Ask a local, trusted, dedicated camera shop whether they'll install it for you.

I wonder how many of these referrals I have to send her way before Rachel starts thinking about giving me some kind of token of appreciation? Like a free gift or something? ... Hmmmm ... although since her company doesn't make anything other than focusing screens, and I already have one, it's not like a free gift from Katz Eye Optics would do me any good ... Oh well, I'll just keep doing this out of the goodness of my heart and my enthusiasm for the product. Too bad there's not some kind of marketing angle in it ...

Hi. I'm going to ask a really dumb question, but I think all of you can handle it now. Is
Nikor a Nikon lens? or does "Nikor" mean that it's Nikon compatible? Huge thanks for an answer. I feel like an idiot for asking, but when a lens is advertised as a Nikor Lens, I want to know what that means. Raymond. Hope everyone is having a great evening. I'm still in the throws of putting together a camera kit.

"Nikkor" is the brand name Nikon uses for their lenses. IIRC, way back in the day there was a company named "Ikon" that made lenses, so Nikon chose a different sounding name for their lens line so as to avoid confusion.

Anyway, "Nikkor" = "Nikon-made lens".

Mycin

>"Nikkor" = "Nikon-made lens".

And for the junkies out there with nothing else better to do on a Thursday night, we can be more specific:

"Nikkor" = NIppon KOgaku + R.

For some fun late-night reading, try this!

'Night-'night (time zone issue)!!!

-- LaDonna

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Hi. I need some help really bad. Does Nikon make the 20-300mm f/4.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S VR Nikor lens as an "imported" lens with a plastic lens? I was told that this Nikor lens comes either imported or USA. If I want the USA version, I have to pay $200.00 more. Do you know about the so called "imported" Nikor lenes? Huge thanks.

"Imported" is a term to describe lenses, cameras, etc., that haven't gone through the official Nikon distribution channels. They are also referred to as "gray market" products. All the Nikon products are imported, but the "US" versions are imported by Nikon USA and carry the full factory warranty. Nikon USA will not repair gray market cameras or lenses. Usually, the store offering these products will provide their own warranty.

Gray market items are typically cheaper because one or more middle-men have been avoided.

There should be no difference in quality or performance between a US and gray market (or "Imported") lens. If you buy gray market and encounter a problem that requires servicing the lens, you may wish you had bought the US version.

Mycin

>Hi. I need some help really bad. Does Nikon make the
>20-300mm f/4.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S VR Nikor lens as an
>"imported" lens with a plastic lens? I was told
>that this Nikor lens comes either imported or USA. If I want
>the USA version, I have to pay $200.00 more. Do you know about
>the so called "imported" Nikor lenes? Huge thanks.
>

You can get USA and Imported (Gray market) versions of the 70-300vr lens ar many legitimate stores and they should clearly indicate which one you are getting. You will not be able to get warranty service from Nikon USA for any imported Nikon lens even if you offer to pay. The price difference on the import vs USA is usually small and in the case of the lens you are considering only $10 at B&H Photo which is the biggest in the USA. Here is a link:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?shs=nikon+70-300&ci=0&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=RootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t

I would be interested in knowing who is trying to push this package to you. There are a number of scam retailers out there selling camera gear. You should check the web site below for store ratings and customer reviews before purchasing.

http://www.resellerratings.com/

Laslo
http://www.digitalexpressionsphotography.com

I feel like an idiot to have to tell you the outfit. FotoConnection. I bought a package and for my life can't get what was promised. Found out the D80 was gray yesterday from Nikon. I didn't have the faintest idea that people like this existed. I think that for the most part, the human race is really pretty good. I happened to run into the dirt of the species. It's been a nightmare. Everyone is going to tell me how stupid I am for not doing my homework before purchasing and I'm deserving of it. Bummed and discouraged, but the bank has stopped payment on the card.

FYI, if it ever happens to anyone else out there, kept track of all conversations, documented it, have copies of all kinds of attachments, and don't return a dog gone thing until you get an approved RMA from FC. Then take photos of every single item returned so that they know they can't complain about lacking items. The return package will have tracking and delivery confirmation. In spite being stupid, the first time I started to get funny stories after the purchase, I began to document everything. Live and learn.

Further, I have great attorneys in the family who would love to take these idiots on. If FC wants to howel, they can have at it. I won't pay a dime in legal fees and they will pay through every orifice.

Thanks to everyone on the forum who has offered help and advice. I will be back with a new USA Nikon. Not discouraged about getting the camera I want and need.

>I feel like an idiot ... I didn't have the faintest idea that people like this existed...

Aw Ray! Don't be too hard on yourself! You're making two fundamental mistakes here:

(1) You seem to assume that everybody selling gray market gear is lowlife. That's not remotely true; cf B/H. They're awesome. You only start scraping the surface of the scum if you start asking questions about an item's being gray and they answer with mumbo-jumbo about "international warranties" and the like. If the thing wasn't intended by Nikon for the domestic market, the good ones will tell you right up front. Whatever you yourself think about gray market goods, the rest of the country (including the government, it would seem) hasn't yet figured out whether or not the gray market is a little bad, really bad, or bottom-feeding bad. The only thing that seems to be sure is that it isn't illegal. So the fact that they sold you a gray market camera, and you didn't know to ask, means that you didn't have a chance to test out their integrity yet. I hope, for the sake of your nerves, they behave now.

(2) You seem to be embarrassed that you haven't managed to figure out, in three days (we've been hangin' since Monday, right?), information that took me six months (and two extremely ugly transactions) to learn. It's amazing how much you even know to ASK at this stage! I for one do NOT give my blessing and consent to your feeling like an idiot.

Now, back to the fun stuff. Next question???



-- LaDonna

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Wow. Thanks LaDonna. I've joined the ranks of hundreds of other dissatisfied customers of FotoConnection. I don't have a problem with gray market. I have a problem with lack of disclosure and the bait and switch, the lies, the misrepresentations, the attempt to pawn off a cheap lens for the one promised on the web site. If you know you aren't going to get a US warranty and still choose to buy the product then it's ok. We deliver what we promise. We really want people and horses happy with our socks for horses. If someone has a problem, by golly, we fix it until everyone is smiling and happy. It doesn't hurt us to have happy customers. It hurts terribly to have unhappy ones, but the lesson learned is a good one. When it comes to big ticket items, lets say $100.00 or more, find out about that dealer. Now we have to hope that the credit card company either gets the money back or FotoConnection does the right thing and gives us what was promised. That's about it. In the meantime, I want a camera!!!! And this time, I'm going local to an authorized dealer and get the exact lens and camera I want.

>... lack of disclosure ...bait and switch ... lies ... misrepresentations ...
... the attempt to pawn off a cheap lens for the one promised on the web site...

Yup, that's registered, card-carrying bottom-feeder stuff there. No arguments from me.



>When it comes to big ticket
>items, lets say $100.00 or more, find out about that dealer.

Yup!



>In the meantime, I want a camera!!!! And this time, I'm going local
>to an authorized dealer and get the exact lens and camera I want.

Yesssssssssssssssssssss! There goes Raymond, armed and back in the saddle!!!!!

(Glad to have been of any help.)

-- LaDonna

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

>Do you know about the so called "imported" Nikor lenes?

To the best of my knowledge, Nikon doesn't make any lenses in the US. Nikon lenses are made in places like Japan, China, etc. So in the normal sense of the word, ALL Nikon lenses bought in the US are imported. They are all made wherever the label says they are made, meaning they are the same lenses, regardless of whether they are listed as "imported" or not. Put another way, lenses listed as "imported" are not any different in specifications or quality than lenses listed as "US/domestic model."

The issue is who imported them, and whether Nikon approved of the import. If Nikon sends them to the US through their official distributors, the lens will be called "US model," "domestic model," etc. The distribution chain includes a healthy set of import taxes, which get passed onto the consumer (part of the reason for the higher price at the cash register). These lenses were also shipped specifically for the US market, which means manuals and other support materials will be in English, any electrical equipment will be appropriate for US wall sockets, etc.

Lenses that are listed as "imported" by the seller are called "gray market" by Nikon and in general discussions. They aren't "black market," but they aren't exactly legal either. Taxes may have been circumvented (hence the lower price). Manuals may or not be in English, may or may not be photocopies of the original manuals (if photocopied, definitely WITHOUT permission from Nikon), etc. etc. Sellers can photocopy an English manual, buy a compatible electrical cord down the street at the local hardware store, and pirate a CD or two, and still sell the patched together set for far less than they can afford to sell a completely "authorized" item.

Nikon USA, in turn, refuses to service any item at all imported through channels not approved by them. I've been told by Nikon that if I take a "gray market" camera to a Nikon dealer to be repaired, the dealer has been given the strictest instructions possible NOT to service my equipment, not even for a fee.

The chances that a gray market item works is precisely the same as that a "domestic market" item works. If you believe this is 100%, or close enough, you'll not need the warranty. If you don't, then find out whether the seller is providing you with some other kind of reliable warranty. Either way, you also need to decide where you stand on "gray market" items in the first place. After you've investigated all those points, you decide which lens to buy!

Read this page from Nikon\'s Support Data Base to get all the details, and correct information relative to the US market in case I've botched anything.

-- LaDonna

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

>To the best of my knowledge, Nikon doesn't make any lenses in the US...

This is hysterical. The poor boy asked this question YESTERDAY. All his friends apparently went to bed on him. But today, there are not one but three of us back at the post to help him out? And if I look at the answers (# of words, # of external links, etc.) it appears we all started the answers at precisely the same moment, and the order of posting reflects how long it took for us to finish the answer.

Boy Raymond, have you got friends! Too bad we don't coordinate better ... Anyway, I'll join y'all tomorrow for the Team Answering Session!

-- LaDonna

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

>I am a new Nikon user and have a D-80. I understand that the
>Nikon 70-300mm ED-IF AF-S VR lens will not have auto focus
>capabilities when used with the D80. Is that true?
>If it is true does anyone know anything about the Tamron
>AF75-300mm F4.5-5.6 LD Macro (1:3.9) lens? We are shooting
>pics of horses at horse shows. Thanks. Is there a better
>option to the Nikon lens if it does not offer auto focus with
>the D-80 in the same price range? Thanks.


Laslo
http://www.digitalexpressionsphotography.com

Take a look at my website. I do a lot of equestrian photography. The D80 will work well and also there are good deals on used D200's now. Most important is the lens. You should do well with a 70 or 80-200 F2.8. The best is the 70-200VR for $1700. Next best is the Nikon 80-200F2.8 and then the Sigma 70-200 F2.8 You should be able to get them for $800-1000. You do not need a lens that goes to 300MM but you do need the F2.8. Also not sure who has been advising you on lenses and batteries but they have been giving you wrong information. If it is a camera store, I would suggest you go to another store. As other have said the Nikon 70-300 VR is the best in class and does work on the D80 but I recommend one of the F2.8's as mentioned above. The Nikon battery for the D80 should cost you about $70 new for Nikon brand. Anyone who is asking $149 is ripping you off.

thank you very much for your help. It's appreciated. The kit includes a Nikor 70-300 4.5 AF-S VR lens. They shipped a Tamron instead. We have to get all this worked out tomorrow.
Nikor is a Nikon lens right? Thanks.

>thank you very much for your help. It's appreciated. The
>kit includes a Nikor 70-300 4.5 AF-S VR lens. They shipped a
>Tamron instead. We have to get all this worked out tomorrow.
>Nikor is a Nikon lens right? Thanks.

Yes Nikkor or Nikon 70-300VR is the correct lens. It is more expensive and better than the Tamron in this case. The Nikon lens alone usally retails for $450-$520.


Laslo
http://www.digitalexpressionsphotography.com

Wow, beautiful photos! Rolex! Did you go this year? We aren't going to try to be professional shooters. We just want to make sure we get good shots of horses at shows we attend to sell our socks for horses. www.whinnywarmers.com. We want to be able to post shots of horses wearing our socks. You, you are doing stunning pro work. Have you attended Red Hills in Tallahassee? That show is another part of the world cup qualifiers and absolutely beautiful course. Thanks again. Good work!

LaDonna
I enjoy your answers. Dont listen to your husband and keep on typing.
You have been a big help.
Fran

>I enjoy your answers. Dont listen to your husband and keep on
>typing.

Thanks Fran! I'll definitely keep on typing (I've never been good at the short, sweet answer), and as you can probably guess, my husband doesn't listen to me 100% of the time either.

:-D

-- LaDonna

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

>Wow, beautiful photos! Rolex! Did you go this year? We
>aren't going to try to be professional shooters. We just want
>to make sure we get good shots of horses at shows we attend to
>sell our socks for horses. www.whinnywarmers.com. We want to
>be able to post shots of horses wearing our socks. You, you
>are doing stunning pro work. Have you attended Red Hills in
>Tallahassee? That show is another part of the world cup
>qualifiers and absolutely beautiful course. Thanks again.
>Good work!

Thank you. The Rolex photos were from 2 years ago. I am located in PA and shoot Equestrian event photography, selling to horse show participants.


Laslo
http://www.digitalexpressionsphotography.com

Thoses horse pictures are fantastic.
Fran

>Thoses horse pictures are fantastic.
>Fran


Laslo
http://www.digitalexpressionsphotography.com

I just checked out some more. My husband and younger son are met fans, and they would love them. They all came out great. You have a lot of excellant shots.

I have the AF-S VR 70-300 F/4.5-5.6 G and it works great. I take mosto of my pictures of wildlife and at kids baseball and soccer games, but I love my lenes. As long as you are shoot outdoors I think you would be happy, for indoors a lower F stop to let more light in would be better.

Thanks. I'm in a "Start all over" with this project so first must settle up a few things from the
first attempt to get what was wanted. I will be in touch with everyone. Thanks for all of your help.

I do a lot of equestrian photography as well, and disagree that you NEED an f2.8 lens. The 55-200 VR lens will work very well and is a lot of bang for the buck. I use the 18-200 VR and it's fine.

Don't get me wrong, I love fast lenses. I've got a 180 2.8 AF-S that's a wonderful lens. The problem is you give up a lot in weight and $$$. If I shoot with the lighter, slower lens, I can hand hold the camera pretty easily. Even then, it gets pretty heavy after a hour of shooting. If you use the heavy, fast lens, you better bring a monopod (at least) or you are really going to be hurting. I prefer the mobility of a single camera and lens. JMO...

D700 l N90s l AF-S 16-35 f4 l AF-S 24-85 f3.5-f4.5G VR l AF-S 70-200 f2.8G VRII l AF-S 50 f1.8G l AF-S 300 f4 l TC-14EII l 2x SB600 l Autometer IIIF.
https://www.facebook.com/tony.johnson.photography
http://www.eyesonboulder.com
My Nikonians Gallery

>I do a lot of equestrian photography as well, and disagree
>that you NEED an f2.8 lens. The 55-200 VR lens will work very
>well and is a lot of bang for the buck. I use the 18-200 VR
>and it's fine.
>
>Don't get me wrong, I love fast lenses. I've got a 180 2.8
>AF-S that's a wonderful lens. The problem is you give up a lot
>in weight and $$$. If I shoot with the lighter, slower lens,
>I can hand hold the camera pretty easily. Even then, it gets
>pretty heavy after a hour of shooting. If you use the heavy,
>fast lens, you better bring a monopod (at least) or you are
>really going to be hurting. I prefer the mobility of a single
>camera and lens. JMO...
>
>

Well you can shoot with just about anything but if you shoot professionally and you want to maximize the keepers which equates to profit in all kinds of conditions the F2.8's are the best. Just check and you will see that 90% of the pros use this or the Canon F4. And yes I have the 70-300VR which I would use if my 70-200 dies. I usually do not need the 200-300 range for the size rings I shoot. I could definately see some problems if it got cloudy or rainy and I had to shoot at F5.6 or F8 with the 18-200 or the 70-300 keeping in mind that I needed a shutter speed of 1/640 or higher. Not sure what ISO that would equate to but I know it would not be pretty on my D200 or D80


Laslo
http://www.digitalexpressionsphotography.com

Hi. Thanks for the advices on the lens. I studied in my early years with a photographer Andrew Tao, who I doubt anyone knows out there, but in his time, he was as superb technical photographer. His dark room skills with B&W were as fine as anything produced by Ansel A. His subjects were mostly from the steel mills of Chicago in the 30s-40s and 50s. I was a kid when I studied with him. He was in his 70s. I'm still only an amateur, but have learned that what you see through your lens is what you ge (at least with a 35mm camera) I've learned to look through the lens and to not assume any more than what is viewed within it. The tools you have to work with are the speed of the film, the aperture setting of the lens, the speed of the lens and the length of the lens and last, the available light. I've shot for years with a simple Olympus OM1 and it's never let me down. I'm excited about moving to a Nikon Digital camera and the thought that film speed is now adaptable via a setting vs. the actual film you put in the camera is pretty neat.

I know that the more open the aperture, the less depth of field. I doubt that has changed just because things are digital. but all the tools are still at your beck and call so just to say without further delay, I am enjoying the discourse on the lenses. When the light isn't there, you give up the depth of field for the light......right, even with Dig.? So, ideally, a great long lens, good for shooting horses in action, that will give me the best results for the money, but I already knew I was going for the minimum f/2.8 on the shorter lens and now, hoping to do the best I can to get to f/2.8 on the long lens. I would love to see some photos taken with both lenses discussed in this string.

Thank you again and have a great holiday weekend!

Laslo, you are going to have to tell me more about "Noise". I look at your photos and they are exceptional. I like the photos of all the girls (your bees).
Noise must be having to do with "Digital". Thanks for your next discourse. Or I certainly would like to hear from anyone on this subject. New to me, at least as that term. Thanks!

Although the underlying principals are different, you can think of noise as the digital equivalent of film grain. In a similar manner it will also become more apparent with higher ISO.

So whereas film grain is a physical artefact of the film medium, digital noise is created by background electrical noise (which is present in any electrical system) and thermal noise on the sensor. The higher the ISO, the more the camera has to amplify the signal it receives from the light photons, so the more apparent the digital noise.

There is signal processing in the camera which tries to reduce the noise, particularly at high ISO settings. There is also software that can be used to reduce digital noise on your images after you've taken them (eg Neat Image, Noise Ninja).

Because sensors and noise reduction algorithms varies between digital camera models, so will the characteristics of the noise. Personally I find the Nikon noise less visually disturbing than that in Canon DSLRs. It doesn't look all at that dissimilar to film grain.

Probably also worth noting that digital noise from D80, or particularly the new D300, at ISO 1600 is much less obstructive than the grain artefacts of ISO 1600 film. And as technology continues to advance, we will continue to be able to capture cleaner and cleaner images at higher and higher sensitivity (ISO).

I hope this was of some help. I can't post any pictures right now but maybe someone else will be kind enough to post a 100% crop example from ISO 1600 or 3200.