I am torn between buying the D80 or the new D60. I will be new to the DSLR world when I make a purchase. I am just getting into photography but my point & shoot just isn't cutting anymore. I usually just taking photos of my Mustang, other Mustangs (sitting still or in action), on the golf course but will be taking a lot of photos when I go on a cruise in 2 months. Price is not an issue with a new camera. I just want to know why I should choose one over the other. I look forward to hearing from you all. Thanks

The only issue,

The D80 can use 90% of all Nikon lens made.

The D60 will only use lens with a internal motor.

If you have no lens and are not going to get more than one or two this is not a issue.

The other issue is how many focus points -- more is better.

The D60 has 3 -- the D80 a lot more -- for action more is better.

ledmun

>The only issue,
>
>The D80 can use 90% of all Nikon lens made.
>
>The D60 will only use lens with a internal motor.
>
>If you have no lens and are not going to get more than one or
>two this is not a issue.
>
>The other issue is how many focus points -- more is better.
>
>The D60 has 3 -- the D80 a lot more -- for action more is
>better.

I am only going to be doing this for my own enjoyment..not going professional by any means. I just want something that takes great photos without the "haze" that seams to be put over the pics with my point and shoot camera. 10 megapixesls will be plenty and from the looks of the compatitable lenses for the D60, that is plenty for what I'm going to be doing. Even though money is not a factor in this, I could save some money by going with the D60 and then have a little money to put towards a GOOD zoom lense. Thanks for the reply. If anyone else has some more info, post up.

If your new to DSLR, I'd go for the D60 and indeed put some extra money in a good zoom lens (16-85 VR, 70-300 VR). The D80 is a more fully featured camera, but like with all things: more features means more complexity and more of a learning curve.

You can't go wrong with either one, though.

Buy the D80. The better autofocus system alone is well worth the price. For my 2 cents, add the 18-200mm VR lens and you'll be one happy camper. When you get your D80, go to kenrockwell.com, and download his excellent D80 users guide. It will go a long way towards helping you understand your camera.

Enjoy!

To defend the choice for the D60...
I too (like most responders in this thread) own a D80 and personally I favour that camera as well above the D40/D40x/D60...but that's not the point. Like somebody below said, these smaller DSLRs may be more fiddly and you may miss the top LCD (I would)....And yes, 3-point AF is a dealbreaker for me, and only having AF-S lenses as options would be too...for me.

But, if you are completely new to SLR cameras, you may not miss any of that. I think the D60 is a better entry point than the D80. Less options, better geared to help you get the right settings for the right moment and so on. Maybe a even better one would be the D40 or D40x since they will be cheaper. Save money for lenses and a SB600. This all said: go to a store, hold the camera and take some photos. See how it fits your hand, get a feel for it.
And far more important than the body is the choice of lenses.

So, for the lens choice...I'm no huge fan of the 18-200, a jack of all trades but truly a master at none. But it is very convenient, easy to carry and certainly not bad.
From what I've seen (don't own it), the 70-300VR is a more solid choice in the long end, and at the wide-angle side the new 16-85 looks nice but expensive...Personally I'd choose the 18-70 since it's pretty cheap now, and still an excellent lens.

I have a D80, have owned it for almost a year... just got some hands-on time with the D60 and I found it more difficult to use than a D80. No simple display on top and only one command dial means that you have to rely on the LCD display on the back of the camera for everything... it would seem to me that it would drain the battery faster, and as I said, it makes the controls more difficult to use.

Also, from a lens persective (something to think about) since you can use any AF lens with the D80, you can fill your bag with cheap used lenses that will still meter instead of needing the more expensive ones.

I have five lenses, only one of which would be compatible with the D60. The other four combined cost about the same (even though two were bought new) than the D60 compatible one.

D80 = greater lens compatibility = more flexibility at lower cost

And like I said, I found the D80s controls and interface to be simpler, less flashy, and potentially less battery consuming.

My $.02

Let us know what you decide - but I strongly suggest you decide what lenses you want and price them, and go to a store where you can hands-on with both cameras with lenses attached.

I'm going to throw my hat in the ring for the D80 as well.

1. Compatibility:
   Will work with pretty much every Nikon lens in the world.
   (ok ok there are a few older ones, the old MF lenses for example...but pretty much any lens made in the past few decades will work...The D60 needs af-s lenses.)
   
   
2. Value:
   Used D80's are selling for ridiculously low prices these days; Theoretically, you could pick up a used D80 in excellent condition, maybe even one w/a few accessories like the MB-D80 grip, for even less than a new D60!
   
   
3. Features:
   The D80 is just a much more featured camera body...better AF, more options for customizing, just more flexibility in general. The D80 is closer to a "Pro" body than it is a consumer one, in many ways. Going with the D80 means there's a far lesser chance that you will "outgrow" your camera body within a relatively short time frame as your photographic prowess grows.
   (As an example, I went from an F5 to a D80 when I made the switch to digital, and except for some minor quibbles like continuous shooting speed, have been completely satisfied)
   
   
4. Track Record:
   The D80 has been around for quite a while now, and has earned it's reputation as a solid performer. The D60 is brand new, and while I'm sure it's a fine body, past experiences have shown that even the illustrious Nikon can have some issues with early copies of newly-released products (ref. D200 banding issues, D80 amp noise, et al.)

-SMH

Learning the hard way is still learning, right?

My Gallery

when people say D80 has better AF, does that mean in general it can do better AF?

for example, is a D80 better at auto-focusing AF-S lenses than a D60?

If money really isn't an issue, than get the D80 and don't look back

Not just that it can use more lens but also it has many more features, and its worth the price

But if you really want to save money than get the D40X instead, it's not much of a difference but cheaper to buy.

you can get a 70-300 VR from the savings

the increased dynamic range with Active D is a great feature in the D60.I think this is an area that will continue to improve with newer generations. I am not sure it makes it better than the D80 and all the functionality you get with the D80.

I got the D80 18-55 kit, than added the 55-200vr... both lens light and compact.

To do it over again, I would go with the 16-85vr and the 70-300vr.
Both lens VR, Range 16-300 with not much over lap.


D80 18-55vr kit $825, add 55-200vr $250....$1075

D80 $730, add 16-85vr $650, add 70-300vr $500.....$1880

(if you don't want to swap lens)

D80 $730, add 18-200vr $680....$1410
D80 18-135 kit $1000

Add an SB 600 Flash and your set!

I used Amazon for quick pricing.... shop around......

My vote: the D80, without a second thought.

Last year I was buying two dSLRs, one for me and one for my hubbie, so that we could start this new hobby together. Both of us are new to dSLRs; hubbie toted around an SLR a few decades ago when it made him look cooler for the babes. At the time I was one of the babes he was trying to impress, so he definitely got his money's worth. I went to get a pair of D40x's, since I'm an absolutely truer than true beginner, and he was going to re-start up from scratch. The D60 is a D40x with a software upgrade (precisely the same camera other than upgraded software!!!), so if it had been now instead of last May I would have been buying D60s -- precisely the same issue.

It turned out that my hands are too big, and the D40x felt really cramped; I just couldn't hold it comfortably. So after two months of teeth-gnashing and being completely afraid to buy ANYTHING, because "surely the D80, a "real photographer's camera, would be too hard ..."

In the end enough people here on Nikonians assured me that if their wives could learn it, so could I. So I got a D80. Hubby can't stand anything with extra weight, so he made me take his D80 back to the store and get him a D40x like he wanted. With the littlest lens.

As it turns out, I'm the only one of the two of us with enough curiosity to really like learning how to use the camera. So first I learn how to do anything on my camera, and then when we're out and about I show him (or usually, change the settings for him), and then he decides whether whatever I've learned is worth learning himself. So I'm a newbie with a rather strange CV: I've learned, from absolutely newbie status, how to use both (rather than first learning how to use a dSLR and then picking up a Dxyz and learning how to use IT.

It took me a DAY to use the D80 in a day in auto-everything, and in two days I'd learned how to use S, P, and M (which will mean something to you as soon as you feel like not having the camera do auto-everything). Here's a picture I took on my THIRD outing with my new D80:



From point-n-shoot to THAT over a course of one week: I'd say this camera is perfectly capable of being a "learner model" for a brand newbie! (That's not special effects; the picture came out like that. I was outside of a building which was lit with red light on the inside.)

Meanwhile, it took me nearly a MONTH to figure out how to do the same thing, and get any good at it, on his D40x, even using the lens that works with his camera! (The lens I took this picture with -- 50mm f/1.4 -- lets in lots of light, but won't work on a D40/x/D60.) And getting it to do that, even with his kit lens, is so complicated a process (on a D40/x/D60) that hubby refuses to shoot in anything except auto-everything.

And meanwhile, two weeks after I took the doorway, I got really bold and took my D80 on a youth trip to Paris:



In order to do THAT with his D40x, I'd have to get out the manual again and pull up a chair; as well as take a course in metering and buy some metering gear; replace the focus screen (additional $150), and learn to focus manually, on account of this lens (like ALL of my low-light lenses) can't do those things on a D40/x/D60. All I needed was my low-light lens (they start at $100) and a tripod.

Hubby's in love with his Rolls-Royce Point-n-Shoot (the pictures he gets are still far superior to anything he use to get with hit compact camera), so we're both happy. But for anybody who actually wants to learn how to tell the camera what to do, instead of pointing the camera at something and telling the camera "Go For It!", there's no way I'd recommend a D40x. It's probably a fantastic "second body" to lug around on account of it's so light, but it's truly a mess to use!


Here's the deal: It turns out that using the D40/x is so "easy" for newbies because they don't have to learn a bunch of buttons. But think about it, using the analogy I learned on another website, would driving a car really be EASIER if there weren't three different levers, two or three pedals, and a bunch of buttons? Would you rather go into gear, neutral, park, reverse, turn on the windshield wipers (stutter, normal, or fast), the headlights, the radio, and the air conditioning, all without having to remember which button or level does which task, because the entire car is controlled by ONE (not even touch-screen) MENU and a five-way joy-stick?

I didn't think so.

And regarding the lens issue, what some of the folks are saying on this thread about lens compatibility is far more relevant than they're necessarily letting on. The lenses that the D80 is completely compatible with includes some of the best lenses Nikon makes which are still affordable. If you have a D80 you can take pictures of your mustangs to your heart's content, and if the mustangs ever move indoors, or the auto show lasts into the evening, you can still take their pictures, without having to use a flash (which would either be useless because of the distance or a nuisance because of the flash reflected in the chrome), all by investing in a single 50mm f/1.8 lens (the aforementioned $100). Neither that lens, nor any of its "fast" brothers and sisters under a thousand dollars, are completely compatible with a D40/x/D60. Which means that a pro has the skills to use them on a D60, but you don't yet. Bummer ...

So my advice is, get the D80 and don't look back!

-- LaDonna

PS: SMH is sooooooooo on target! Unless you're truly attached to having your camera be new, you can get a spic-and-span D80, plus a great "kit" lens, for the same amount of money as a new D60. That's because the D300 is so much of an amazing miracle without being all that much "more camera" than a D80 that everybody-n-his-brother-n-law is off-loading his D80 to pay for a new D300. This truly is the time to buy a D80, in fantastic condition, for super cheap, if you want to save some money.

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Cookies,

I think you are over dramatizing the benefits of a D80.

D40/D40X/D60 can all take perfectly fine night shots with the kit lens. No manuals, no chairs, no focus screens, no "low light lens" needed. Not sure why you think the 18-55 can't take low light shots.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/perdoch/1573734817/sizes/o/in/set-72157602181939222/

^^ all pics on that site are taken with D40+18-55 or 55-200VR

Just because your husband chooses not to learn doesn't mean this stuff can't be done on a d40/d40x/d60.

With that said, it you can afford it, I would get the D80. Unless you have special requirements like size and weight. I am a hiker, I use a D40, 18-55, 55-200VR as my hiking kit. I've gotten great results with this setup, however I would own a D80 if is wasn't for the hiking.

^^ Total kit cost
D40 + 18-55 kit lens - $450
55-200VR - $200
Total - $650
A nice starter kit.

Very fair. The kit lenses will do a fine job on night shots of buildings, and I chose my examples badly. What the kit lens can't do is take a picture of people or things in low light if they are moving, at least not without a flash.

I stand completely corrected.

-- LaDonna

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

>Very fair. The kit lenses will do a fine job on night shots
>of buildings, and I chose my examples badly. What the kit lens
>can't do is take a picture of people in low light if they are
>moving, at least not without a flash.

I agree with that. The ability to autofocus with the fast primes is something I envy. However I do expect Nikon to make AF-S primes in the nearish future, more expensive of course though.

>I agree with that. The ability to autofocus with the fast
>primes is something I envy. However I do expect Nikon to make
>AF-S primes in the nearish future, more expensive of course
>though.

That was part of my point exactly. If somebody has aspirations that require anything other than an 18-xzy, they don't save any money by buying a D60. IF Nikon makes AF-S primes in the future, they will cost a heck of a lot more than their AF-nonS siblings. And that's a big IF. I was giving my advice based not on what Torched might want to do in the future, but what he already knows that he wants to do now, part of which involves taking pictures of Mustangs in action.

He also wants to go on a cruise. I know VR does an amazing job on reducing camera shake caused by the photographer not holding the camera completely still. Anybody got any experience of whether or not VR will reduce boat-induced camera shake?

-- LaDonna

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

the d60 with 18-55 vr is about $750; the d80 (body only) is about $730. i own a d80, but if you don't either own an older nikkor or plan on using non af-s lenses or 3rd party lenses, then there's little practical reason to get the d80, if you're ok with the d60 being a smaller body and not having a grip, better AF, or a second command dial. as far as IQ, they have the same sensor, d60 probably has a little better noise control and dynamic range as its newer.

The D80 features that I'd miss with a D60 are the dedicated WB/ISO/Metering mode/Exposure bracketing buttons, available viewfinder grid lines, AF compatibility with non-AF-S lenses, top mounted display, extra AF focusing points and DOF preview, which comes in handy for macro.

That said, you can make do with D60, work around the lack of dedicated hard buttons for controlling the camera by delving into menus, which much more slow. Likewise with the lack of AF focusing points that come in useful when shooting portraits, you'll be using the AF-L button more often than you would with a D80.

The D60 in use is more akin to fixed lens P&S digicams. The D80 lacks an active D-Lighting function for jpegs and has slightly smaller rear LCD screen. With regards to image quality, both should be the same.

"work around the lack of dedicated hard buttons for controlling the camera by delving into menus, which much more slow."

Which is why I just ordered the D80. Can't be delving into menus to change ISO, metering, focus mode, etc.

For the OP (Torched)

Let us know what you've decided!!!

This question has sparked a great conversation, but I'm gonna need some closure!

-SMH

Learning the hard way is still learning, right?

My Gallery

I agree with most of the statements up there, but like said, if you never plan on using more than about 2 or 3 DX lenses, go with the D60. I would suggest staying away from the 18-200, I personally feel it is WAY overrated. (I am at least not that impressed with it) Go with 2 smaller DX lenses, and then when you have had enough with your D60 (or want MUCH more out of a camera) then upgrade. I am personally buying another D80 as a back up camera. Or you can get a reconditioned D80 and buy a 2 year warranty for about ~$50 cheaper than a new D80.


Erik
Nikonian in a Southern Hick Town With a Big City Attitude
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mitersaw/