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Subject: "Sharp enough?" Previous topic | Next topic
DBarnes Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Oct 2008Mon 29-Oct-12 03:15 PM
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"Sharp enough?"
Mon 29-Oct-12 03:16 PM by DBarnes

US
          

After stalking this heron for more than 2 hours this morning, I finally got the light on the right side of me/Mr. Heron and made this shot. It's about a 50% crop, but that's the only thing I've done to it.
This is about as close as I could get without spooking him, and it's the limit of my 70-200.
Here's the question... sharp enough? 1/640 sec, f/5, ISO 200, Compensation: -4/3.
Do I need to push sharpness further? If so, how?
Is this sharp enough for an 11X14 or so print?

Thanks for the input.
Dave

http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/398896/ppuser/195725

http://fullframedreams.smugmug.com/

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
blw Moderator
29th Oct 2012
1
Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
DBarnes Silver Member
29th Oct 2012
2
     Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
JosephK Silver Member
29th Oct 2012
3
     Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
blw Moderator
30th Oct 2012
4
          Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
DBarnes Silver Member
30th Oct 2012
5
          Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
JosephK Silver Member
30th Oct 2012
7
          Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
blw Moderator
30th Oct 2012
8
          Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
EYeye
30th Oct 2012
6
               Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
DBarnes Silver Member
30th Oct 2012
9
                    Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
blw Moderator
30th Oct 2012
10
                         Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
DBarnes Silver Member
30th Oct 2012
11
                              Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
blw Moderator
30th Oct 2012
12
                                   Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
cwils02 Gold Member
30th Oct 2012
13
                                   Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
blw Moderator
30th Oct 2012
15
                                   Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
DBarnes Silver Member
30th Oct 2012
14
                                        Reply message RE: Sharp enough?
blw Moderator
30th Oct 2012
16

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Mon 29-Oct-12 06:30 PM
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#1. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond, US
          

Hard to tell from that copy, but it doesn't look especially sharp to me. Is this processed, or is it a raw conversion straight out of the camera?

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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DBarnes Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Oct 2008Mon 29-Oct-12 06:58 PM
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#2. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 1


US
          

Brian... this was RAW to jpg in Lightroom 3... then uploaded to Nikonians using the app.
Dave

http://fullframedreams.smugmug.com/

  

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JosephK Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Nikonian since 17th Apr 2006Mon 29-Oct-12 10:58 PM
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#3. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 2


Seattle, WA, US
          

Accepting the defaults in Lightroom's raw conversion will probably not get you where you want to be. You will need to play with the various sliders.

---------+---------+---------+---------+
Joseph K
Seattle, WA, USA

D700, D200, D70S, 24-70mm f/2.8, VR 70-200mm f/2.8 II,
50mm f/1.4 D, 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR, 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Tue 30-Oct-12 12:00 AM
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#4. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 2


Richmond, US
          

The defaults in Lightroom are pretty soft. I routinely increase the sharpening by quite a bit, and it makes a BIG difference.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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DBarnes Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Oct 2008Tue 30-Oct-12 12:24 AM
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#5. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 4


US
          

I guess I was asking about sharpness in terms of what do "pros" expect to see before you start with sharpening? I'm looking at technique/equipment and asking if I've got what I need in the raw shot to start with.
And as for the sharpening, I'll probably need to take some lessons, or move to another forum to learn how to add that in a way that enhances the photo further.

Dave

http://fullframedreams.smugmug.com/

  

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JosephK Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Nikonian since 17th Apr 2006Tue 30-Oct-12 02:52 AM
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#7. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 5


Seattle, WA, US
          

OK, this makes a bit more sense.

After looking a little closer at the pic, I think you missed with the focus. To me it looks like the focus ended up on the rust-colored leaves to the left of the bird.

That said, I think that with a little post processing that pic could happily do a smallish print, maybe up to 8x10.

---------+---------+---------+---------+
Joseph K
Seattle, WA, USA

D700, D200, D70S, 24-70mm f/2.8, VR 70-200mm f/2.8 II,
50mm f/1.4 D, 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR, 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Tue 30-Oct-12 05:17 AM
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#8. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 5


Richmond, US
          

> I guess I was asking about sharpness in terms of what do "pros" expect to see before you start with sharpening?

To a degree I don't care about how it is, it's how it looks when I get done that I care about. Some images are closer than others at the beginning; some of that is lens. My Sigma 12-24 is not a terribly sharp lens, but for reasons I don't fully understand, its accutance is sufficient, meaning that its images are both tolerant of and demanding of significantly more sharpening than most others.

But of course I do understand what you mean - in the extreme, if I forgot to push the focusing button it is obvious that there's no point, and then where do I draw the line...

Again, I can't really tell from this size, but I don't think this particular one is very sharp. Sharp enough that I probably would not be bothering. I'm not sure why - again I can't really tell from this size - but my guess is technique and not lens. I think just about every modern lens is sharper than this. (Sorry...)

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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EYeye Registered since 16th Sep 2012Tue 30-Oct-12 12:29 AM
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#6. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 4
Tue 30-Oct-12 12:31 AM by EYeye

US
          

Admire your persistence. Suggestion: on my D80 I'd set ISO to 800 (I think your D90 could handle 1200ish) and shoot f7.1 or f8 at 1/640 with of course the VR on. I suspect the additional DOF would make the heron "sharper". Looking at the heron's beak, seems you have used a tad much post sharpening.

I often wonder why the forum does not support "larger" image files. I suspect this looks pretty nice in its original size.

Regards

EYeye

  

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DBarnes Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Oct 2008Tue 30-Oct-12 10:08 AM
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#9. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 6


US
          

EYeye... you're right. A little more DOF would have been nice. Shoulda pushed it to f10. My D90 really looses quite a bit past 800 ISO. And this was shot on a tripod so the VR was off. So, I guess I'll blame technique and DOF.
You'd think I'd have this a little closer, but as you say, I'm persistent.
As Brian says..." I think just about every modern lens is sharper than this. (Sorry...)" That's what I'd have thought. I just feel like I'm so close... there's got to be something I've got to do.
Signed... still a little frustrated... sigh...
Dave

http://fullframedreams.smugmug.com/

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Tue 30-Oct-12 11:04 AM
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#10. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 9


Richmond, US
          

What focus modes were in use? Which AF target was the one that was locked on?

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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DBarnes Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Oct 2008Tue 30-Oct-12 02:10 PM
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#11. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

Brian, to best of my memory, I was using single point AFC and I'm guessing it was the center marker, or perhaps one to the left.
D

http://fullframedreams.smugmug.com/

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Tue 30-Oct-12 02:58 PM
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#12. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 11


Richmond, US
          

Single point AF-C: good, that's the easiest to control.

AF target: You should load the original out-of-camera file into ViewNX2 and see which AF target was locked on. Often when these things come up, folks are quite surprised. Sometimes I find that a very well focused image had no locked on target, but often I find that one that is soft or just out of focus was either not locked on at all or that a different target was used than was expected. I don't personally have this latter problem very often as I tend not to use the multi-point modes very often, but many other folks do.

You can also verify which AF mode you were using - NX2 does interpret all that metadata, which the Adobe products typically do not.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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cwils02 Gold Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2012Tue 30-Oct-12 04:30 PM
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#13. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 12


HIXSON, US
          

Brian,

I'm not totally sure about this, but I seem to remember that if you focus on one point, and then recompose, that the focus point as shown on ViewNX would be off. Am I right on this?

Not that this makes what you posted trivial. I use it all the time when shooting longer than my lens (no need to recompose) to see where the focus point really was.

Charlie

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Tue 30-Oct-12 08:15 PM
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#15. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 13


Richmond, US
          

> if you focus on one point, and then recompose, that the focus point as shown on ViewNX would be off. Am I right on this?

Quite correct.

Also, if you manually focus, no focus point shown, even if you used an AF sensor and the green/black dot rangefinder to achieve that focus, and even if the focus indicator was lit when you released the shutter.

But most of the time we use AF (especially AF-C) in such a way that there really should be something locked on.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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DBarnes Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Oct 2008Tue 30-Oct-12 05:17 PM
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#14. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 12


US
          

Brian... you were absolutely right...(and why shouldn't you be)... there was no focus point locked on. That's really odd. I was in a pretty static position on this shot and there was no movement of the heron. Matter of fact, there's a second shot (the one after it) that I checked and it didn't have a target either. I'm wondering why not. I must be doing something wrong?
Dave

http://fullframedreams.smugmug.com/

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Tue 30-Oct-12 08:22 PM
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#16. "RE: Sharp enough?"
In response to Reply # 14


Richmond, US
          

> you were absolutely right...(and why shouldn't you be)

Lots of reasons, actually. For example, one possible reason would be that you have a defective lens or camera, and the correctly indicated focus is not in fact correctly focused. Or perhaps because you might have been shooting AF-S intead of AF-C and while the camera locked on, the bird may have moved a bit. Or ...

But in this case, probably not.

> I'm wondering why not. I must be doing something wrong?

Pay attention to the rangefinder dot in the finder. If it's showing the dot, release the shutter. It's telling you something. Note also that while you're in the field, I'm pretty sure that there is an option in the menus to have it tell you what focus point was locked on.

One possible answer: the AF targets are now pretty small (they're especially so on my D3). It doesn't take much of an aiming wiggle to get a different distance under the AF target, and in AF-C the camera is set to Release priority, so you can easily get an out of focus frame. This is the flip side of the "my camera won't release the shutter" problem - and quite possibly in the same conditions, but with different "error messages."

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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