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Forums Lobby GET TO KNOW YOUR CAMERA & MASTER IT Nikon D90/D80/D70 (Public) topic #250472
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Subject: "D90 Internal Battery Failure" Previous topic | Next topic
rjo3491 Registered since 19th Sep 2009Mon 16-Jan-12 06:08 PM
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"D90 Internal Battery Failure"


US
          

Hello all:

Just curious if anyone else is having this issue, and, if there are any suggestions as to a fix. For the second time (now after a $272 repair at an authorized service center), my D90 looses all if its time and date settings the second it's turned off. Upon fire up, the settings must be reloaded before the camera can be used - a totally unacceptable condition. I have no intention of putting another $300 or so into the fix of this body so this could be the end of a 32 year run with Nikon and myself (I'm a bit disgusted as you may infer). These cameras are technical wonders, but I sincerely don't think they hold a candle to my F2 and FM2 (which by the way, still work fine and neither have ever seen a service dealer).

I've ordered the EH-5 charging cable to see if that might correct the problem, short of that, I believe I'm screwed unless any Nikonians have another suggestion.

Many thanks all:

Jay Oswalt
Plymouth, MI

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
gkaiseril Gold Member
16th Jan 2012
1
Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
rjo3491
16th Jan 2012
2
     Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
PAStime Silver Member
17th Jan 2012
3
          Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
rjo3491
17th Jan 2012
4
               Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
PAStime Silver Member
17th Jan 2012
5
                    Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
rjo3491
18th Jan 2012
6
                         Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
PAStime Silver Member
19th Jan 2012
7
Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography
19th Jan 2012
8
Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
rjo3491
19th Jan 2012
9
     Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
kentak Silver Member
21st Jan 2012
10
          Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
rjo3491
21st Jan 2012
11
          Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
PAStime Silver Member
21st Jan 2012
12
          Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
rjo3491
22nd Jan 2012
13
               Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
PAStime Silver Member
23rd Jan 2012
14
          Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography
23rd Jan 2012
15
               Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
rjo3491
24th Jan 2012
16
Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
rjo3491
28th Jan 2012
17
Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
PAStime Silver Member
29th Jan 2012
18
Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
rjo3491
11th Feb 2012
19
Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
PAStime Silver Member
13th Feb 2012
20
Reply message RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure
rjo3491
08th Apr 2012
21

gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Mon 16-Jan-12 06:22 PM
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#1. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon 16-Jan-12 06:25 PM by gkaiseril

Chicago, US
          

I do not think the external power supply will accomplish what you want.

Was the internal battery the issue that was repaired?

You might want to check or have either that service or Nikon Service look at it and provide an estimate about the fix. Your other repair could have caused this issue but that can only be determined if you are very clear about the service provided and if this issue arose as soon as you got your camera back.

The internal clock battery will not be used until the removable rechargeable battery is removed or discharges to a very low level. The internal clock battery also needs 10 hours of charging time from being powered by the removable rechargeable battery or the external charger.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

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rjo3491 Registered since 19th Sep 2009Mon 16-Jan-12 06:29 PM
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#2. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 1
Mon 16-Jan-12 06:30 PM by rjo3491

US
          

George, thanks. I think they replaced the main card (actually, they couldn't fix it themselves and ended up sending to Nikon somewhere in NY State)- I'll call them tomorrow to confirm what was done. It's been 8 months since the repair and it's worked fine up to now.

BTW, I keep the main battery charged to at least 50% all the time.

Is there somebody at Nikon I can contact?

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PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009Tue 17-Jan-12 12:17 AM
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#3. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 2


Kingston, CA
          

Have you contacted the repair center where you had the work done? They may have a warranty on the repair. You can also explain that the repair job is unacceptable. Peter

  

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rjo3491 Registered since 19th Sep 2009Tue 17-Jan-12 01:24 AM
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#4. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 3


US
          

PAStime:

Thanks, I'll talk to them again and see if I can find out exactly what was done. Today, they stated that their warranty is 90 days so they're not willing to do much more.

I also wonder if perhaps my battery is not delivering adequate charging power to the main chip even though the camera's meter is indicating all is well - I may try a new battery before deciding what to do.

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PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009Tue 17-Jan-12 03:24 AM
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#5. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 4
Tue 17-Jan-12 03:37 AM by PAStime

Kingston, CA
          

>PAStime:
>
>Thanks, I'll talk to them again and see if I can find out
>exactly what was done. Today, they stated that their warranty
>is 90 days so they're not willing to do much more.

I wish you good luck with that!

>I also wonder if perhaps my battery is not delivering adequate
>charging power to the main chip even though the camera's meter
>is indicating all is well - I may try a new battery before
>deciding what to do.

My guess is that the internal clock "battery" would require very little current to keep it adequately charged. But try this anyway. See page 28 of your D90 manual for some hints around this.

It is surprising that swapping out the board did not fix the problem.

What follows is geeky technical stuff.

I happen to have a 219 page PDF of the D90 repair manual. It mostly contains information on dis-assembly and reassembly. I flipped through it and found a picture of a PCB with what looked like a coin battery mounted on it. I zoomed in and it says MS621FE. I Googled that and sure enough that is a 3V manganese silicon lithium rechargeable battery for backup clock applications. It is rated at over 100 discharge/recharge cycles (so I guess one doesn't want to kill it too often). I think we can conclude the D90 has a rechargeable lithium battery for the clock. I note that this battery is mounted on what's called the DC/DC PCB and it is part B3001. It might get recharged via the DC/DC PCB or some other PCB.

There is an ambiguous statement that suggests the "backup" battery should drain in 2.5 hours or longer (as a minimum specification).

As an aside, is there not a feature where the camera will sync with your computer's time when you hook it up via the USB port? Perhaps that is only true with Camera Control Pro.

Peter



Peter

  

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rjo3491 Registered since 19th Sep 2009Wed 18-Jan-12 04:09 AM
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#6. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 5


US
          

Thanks for the info Peter. I'll update my results as I progress. I guess I will have to deal with this body as I have too much invested in Nikon gear to switch to another brand, and, I'd never get a D-700 passed my wife!

Jay

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PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009Thu 19-Jan-12 02:44 AM
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#7. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 6


Kingston, CA
          

Do let us know how you make out. The D7000 is always a great option, as is a new or second hand D90 - still a great rig. Peter

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Thu 19-Jan-12 09:17 PM
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#8. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 0


St Petersburg, RU
          

What was the original problem that was repaired?
After you got it back, did the camera have a chance to charge the memory backup cell and begin working and then failed later or did it fail from the time you got it back?
The charge circuit is pretty simple, if it is getting current, there are only a few things that can cause this problem. You may have to talk to the tech who worked on it directly to figure out just what was done to it in repair. I notice Nikon does not give specifics as to what was found of what was repaired. They will say "replaced major assembly" but not what specifically they found or thought they found.
Since they are not electronics techs, they can only replace next higher assemblies, even if the part is dirt cheap that fails, the whole circuit board gets replaced for 1000 times more money. When I repaired a failed SB900 flash, the part that shorted was a tiny surface mount capacitor that I had in my supplies but buying one would have cost $0.02. That saved a $250 repair bill and being without it for weeks because they would have had to replace the entire main processor circuit board.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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rjo3491 Registered since 19th Sep 2009Thu 19-Jan-12 11:59 PM
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#9. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 8
Fri 20-Jan-12 12:22 AM by rjo3491

US
          

KM6:

It worked upon receipt for 8 months, then developed the same problem. You're correct in you assumption that Nikon, "replaced the main circuit board" with no further details. I have learned that the internal memory battery, a button cell is soldered to the board (cheap to manufacture, expensive to repair) and draws power from the main battery. As with all my lithium ion batteries, I rarely let this one run down past half charge, so I doubt this was problem - though I may try a new main battery before I send it in again.

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kentak Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jul 2010Sat 21-Jan-12 12:36 AM
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#10. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 9


US
          

Why are we blaming the clock battery? As long as there is a main battery with a reasonable charge remaining, the clock settings should not be lost merely by turning the camera off--which is what you described in the OP. If the clock battery was shot, then removing the main battery would likely be cause for a clock reset, but not powering the camera down. Am I missing something?

Are the battery and camera contacts clean?

I think trying a new battery is worthwhile. Maybe a camera store would let you try the battery from a display camera to see if the issue is resolved.

Please keep us informed.

Kent

  

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rjo3491 Registered since 19th Sep 2009Sat 21-Jan-12 03:26 PM
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#11. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 10
Sun 22-Jan-12 10:21 PM by rjo3491

US
          

Kent:

I don't think the main battery powers the clock, it merely keeps the clock battery charged. Yep, removing it for an extended period of time would therefore drain the clock battery, but I would think it should be able to stay out for weeks (even months) before the clock settings would be lost. What's happening in my case is the clock battery cannot take or hold a charge, and, since it's not user replaceable, it's a somewhat expensive repair. In higher level Nikons, (300's, 700's and above) I believe that this button cell can be replaced by the user.

Somebody please let me know if I'm wrong.

Thanks,

Jay

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PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009Sat 21-Jan-12 11:15 PM
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#12. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 10
Sat 21-Jan-12 11:18 PM by PAStime

Kingston, CA
          

>Why are we blaming the clock battery? As long as there is a
>main battery with a reasonable charge remaining, the clock
>settings should not be lost merely by turning the camera
>off

Excellent point, but we can't be 100% sure that the main battery is able to maintain the clock functioning even if the clock battery is discharged and/or unable to accept a charge. But that would seem to make sense. Hmmm.....

In any case, no matter how poor the quality is of the clock battery, I doubt it would cause the clock to lose time the instant the D90 is turned off. You'd expect it to only keep time for a few days, or hours, or even seconds as the clock battery gets old. This suggests to me a faulty circuit and not a faulty clock battery.

I just looked again at my D90 manual. It says "If the clock icon flashes in the control panel, the clock battery is exhausted and the clock has been reset". Are you seeing this icon in the control panel when the failure occurs?

BTW, the manual also indicates that the clock battery is charged by either the main battery or when an AC adapter is connected.

Peter

  

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rjo3491 Registered since 19th Sep 2009Sun 22-Jan-12 10:19 PM
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#13. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 12


US
          

"I just looked again at my D90 manual. It says "If the clock icon flashes in the control panel, the clock battery is exhausted and the clock has been reset". Are you seeing this icon in the control panel when the failure occurs?

BTW, the manual also indicates that the clock battery is charged by either the main battery or when an AC adapter is connected".

Yep, the clock indicator flashes on the panel when the camera is activated. The battery (clock that is) is simply not charging - I've tried the the power cord as well, same result. Now that this has happened twice, I would expect the same failure several months after the installation of a new main card. I'm therefore not feeling good about this particular camera. My guess is that the problem is somewhere in the charging circuitry. A new board with a fully charged button cell attached will last about 6-8 months and I'll be right back here again.

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PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009Mon 23-Jan-12 01:14 AM
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#14. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 13


Kingston, CA
          

> A new board with a fully charged button
>cell attached will last about 6-8 months and I'll be right
>back here again.

Yes, I agree, that could happen again.

It might take a solid day to charge the button cell. I assume you gave it at least an overnight.

I'll assume also that your main battery is in good shape (not at the end of its life).

By the way, the D90 when turned on draws very little power. You could just leave it on all of the time. Try that...?

Peter

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Mon 23-Jan-12 04:43 AM
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#15. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 10


St Petersburg, RU
          

I do not think anyone suggested the battery was bad. I mentioned the battery circuit which consists of a charge circuit, the battery and the isolation circuit. Turning the camera off allows current to flow out of the backup battery, through the isolation circuit(usually just a diode in series with the backup battery) to prevent current flow from the battery when the power is turned on. The charge circuit allows the backup battery to charge when the power is turned on or when the main battery is in the camera but power switch is turned off. With the main pc board having been replaced, it is unlikely that the same problem occurred again but something that is preventing the backup battery to be charged or to provide current when reaching the memory cells that store the data that is being lost when the power is turned off. So the suspect cause is likely something external to the main pc board that was replaced.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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rjo3491 Registered since 19th Sep 2009Tue 24-Jan-12 01:35 AM
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#16. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 15
Tue 24-Jan-12 01:37 AM by rjo3491

US
          

Stan, I think you've nailed it. The camera is on it's way to the Melville, NY Service Center. I specifically asked that they not just replace the card (that holds the battery) without addressing the charging issue, or, I'll be back again in a few months. I'll keep you all posted as to my progress.

Jay

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rjo3491 Registered since 19th Sep 2009Sat 28-Jan-12 04:03 PM
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#17. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

So, I've sent the D90 in and have my, "response" from Nikon. The quote said, "moderate repair, significant part replacement", $225 plus tax and shipping (I think they group repairs into categories and have a, "block" charging policy - fine). Translation, they are replacing D/C card with one with a fresh battery and in six to eight months, I'll have another dead camera. I contacted customer service (they were very nice) and explained that the problem is that the internal battery isn't charging and this will most likely not address the real problem - and further asked that a service tech contact me with the exact repair plan. The service rep stated that I should hear more from them early next week.

I think if this doesn't kill me, it may be fun!

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PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009Sun 29-Jan-12 02:39 AM
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#18. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 17


Kingston, CA
          

>So, I've sent the D90 in and have my, "response"
>from Nikon. The quote said, "moderate repair,
>significant part replacement", $225 plus tax and shipping

Thanks for the update. Fun indeed!

Perhaps the quote is for something that would fix the charging circuit, perhaps not. Do let us know what you hear.

Peter

  

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rjo3491 Registered since 19th Sep 2009Sat 11-Feb-12 08:21 PM
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#19. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

So, after several emails to Nikon asking that they be sure to correct the root cause of my camera's failure and jot just address the symptoms, I go ahead and authorize the $200 repair. Two days later (I didn't believe it) my camera was back in Michigan!

I put the battery in, powered up the unit and set the time and date. Then cut the camera off. I crossed my fingers and switched the camera back on and unbelievably, the time and date settings were lost - it was in the same condition that it was when I sent it to Melville! Either they did nothing, or my guess, simply replaced the circuit board based upon my verbal complaints having never analyzed the problem themselves (apparently, they don't test their work either).

I called customer service and explained the situation and they're sending me pre-paid labels to ship it back. I'm going to demand another body this time as I think I must have a lemon seeing as nobody else on this board has experienced a similar issue, short of that, I have a one word solution - Canon.

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PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009Mon 13-Feb-12 12:22 AM
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#20. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 19


Kingston, CA
          

That's a horrible outcome on your second repair!

Peter

  

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rjo3491 Registered since 19th Sep 2009Sun 08-Apr-12 02:23 PM
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#21. "RE: D90 Internal Battery Failure"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

Ok, I have my D90 back from Melville (the second time) and it has worked flawlessly for two weeks. I'm now experiencing another issue. Before I go off like a rocket on the folks at Nikon (I'm at the point where it's time for them to replace this unit), I wanted to assure that I'm not doing something wrong, or, if there is some sort of user based correction for my new problem. It seems that the camera is working fine up to the point where the image is loaded onto the card - nothing is loading. I snap photo after photo and nothing is captured on the card. I've attempted re-formatting the card, using another card (that I know works) and I still get no images captured by my D-90. Another issue (I believe related) is that live view will not engage. My suspicion is that this feature will not function unless there is a card in the camera and my camera is refusing to recognize any card.

Has anyone run into this? Could there be something I'm doing wrong, please advise. Should this be another malfunction, I'm going write this one off as a lemon and request another unit, or a Nikon credit on one of their more advanced point and shoots - I don't want this body back!

Thanks:

Jay

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