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Nutter Registered since 10th May 2007Mon 12-Jan-09 10:52 PM
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"74% of posters non-members."


Lake in the Hills, US
          

I just did a quick count of who started the last 100 posts in this forum, of the last 100 / 74 of them where/are non-members. Now I know thats a small data set but with the recent removal of free membership here I cant help thinking how thats going to change the number of threads here.

coc welcome.


John

D90 | 18-200mm VR | 50mm f/1.8 | SB600

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. - Wayne Gretzky

  

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MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas
12th Jan 2009
1
Reply message RE: 74% of posters non-members.
gpoole Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Awarded for his very generous support to the Fundrasing Campaing 2014 Writer Ribbon awarded for his article contributions for the Articles library and the eZine
13th Jan 2009
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MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas
13th Jan 2009
3
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tundracamper
13th Jan 2009
4
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13th Jan 2009
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13th Jan 2009
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13th Jan 2009
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13th Jan 2009
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18th Jan 2009
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ColColt Gold Member
22nd Jan 2009
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14th Jan 2009
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18th Jan 2009
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18th Jan 2009
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13th Jan 2009
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14th Jan 2009
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14th Jan 2009
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14th Jan 2009
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14th Jan 2009
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14th Jan 2009
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19th Jan 2009
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15th Jan 2009
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14th Jan 2009
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14th Jan 2009
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15th Jan 2009
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18th Jan 2009
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15th Jan 2009
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15th Jan 2009
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15th Jan 2009
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15th Jan 2009
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15th Jan 2009
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19th Jan 2009
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17th Jan 2009
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22nd Jan 2009
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16th Jan 2009
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18th Jan 2009
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18th Jan 2009
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19th Jan 2009
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19th Jan 2009
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20th Jan 2009
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16th Jan 2009
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21st Jan 2009
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17th Jan 2009
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17th Jan 2009
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18th Jan 2009
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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources
18th Jan 2009
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James23p Moderator Awarded for his wide variety of skills, a true generalist both in film and digital photography
18th Jan 2009
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19th Jan 2009
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21st Jan 2009
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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills
21st Jan 2009
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21st Jan 2009
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21st Jan 2009
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21st Jan 2009
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21st Jan 2009
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22nd Jan 2009
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22nd Jan 2009
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22nd Jan 2009
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22nd Jan 2009
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22nd Jan 2009
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22nd Jan 2009
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23rd Jan 2009
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23rd Jan 2009
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23rd Jan 2009
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23rd Jan 2009
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22nd Jan 2009
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23rd Jan 2009
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24th Jan 2009
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24th Jan 2009
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25th Jan 2009
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MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007Mon 12-Jan-09 11:25 PM
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#1. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

Hi John,

I have read threads mentioning this, as some have refered to e-mails that they recieved, but have not seen any anouncements or explaination on an official level yet. If there is something official, If you could provide a link I would appreciate it.
I understand that It costs money to keep Nikonians up and running.
Probably much more than one would think. There is definetly a need for more supporting members, that I think we all know.

Best Regards,
Marty

  

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gpoole Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Awarded for his very generous support to the Fundrasing Campaing 2014 Writer Ribbon awarded for his article contributions for the Articles library and the eZine Nikonian since 14th Feb 2004Tue 13-Jan-09 12:04 AM
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#2. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 1
Sun 18-Jan-09 04:31 AM by jrp

Farmington Hills, US
          

See JRP's post Starting January 12th - Clarifications on Change of Basic Membership term in the About Nikonians & Galleries forum.

Gary in SE Michigan, USA. Co-organizer of the Southern Michigan Chapter
Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera.
D4, D810, D300, D90, F6, FM3a (black), FM2n (chrome)
YashicaMat 124, Graflex Speed Graphic 4x5
My Nikonians Gallery & Our Chapter Gallery

  

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MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007Tue 13-Jan-09 12:42 AM
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#3. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

Hi Gary,

Thank you!

Best Regards,
Marty

  

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tundracamper Registered since 22nd Nov 2006Tue 13-Jan-09 11:50 AM
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#4. "RE: --> 94% of posters non-members!!!"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 13-Jan-09 11:51 AM by tundracamper

US
          

>I just did a quick count of who started the last 100 posts in
>this forum, of the last 100 / 74 of them where/are
>non-members.

Did you read that cited above post? It appears that only 6% of Nikonians are members. I am still contemplating whether I should upgrade. I let my Silver expire a few months ago, so it would actually be a re-upgrade. In terms of the services, I don't want the on-line gallery, so that has zero value for me. I only care about these forums.


... Back to the point... what happens when many of those 94% don't upgrade? Won't the traffic of posts come to a screeching halt? To me, that's a lot of free information going down the tubes, perhaps including mine...

  

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Paul_Fisher Gold Member Awarded for his multiple article contributions Charter MemberTue 13-Jan-09 12:01 PM
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#5. "RE: --> 94% of posters non-members!!!"
In response to Reply # 4


Perth, AU
          

Steve, early indications are that a large proportion of those 94% will upgrade. However even if there is a loss of some members we won't come to a screeching halt. Nikonians was an active, vibrant community when we had many fewer members.

Paul Fisher
Nikonian in Perth, Western Australia
My home page

  

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Nutter Registered since 10th May 2007Tue 13-Jan-09 02:21 PM
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#6. "RE: --> 94% of posters non-members!!!"
In response to Reply # 4


Lake in the Hills, US
          

>>I just did a quick count of who started the last 100
>posts in
>>this forum, of the last 100 / 74 of them where/are
>>non-members.
>
>Did you read that cited above post? It appears that only 6%
>of Nikonians are members. I am still contemplating whether I
>should upgrade. I let my Silver expire a few months ago, so
>it would actually be a re-upgrade. In terms of the services,
>I don't want the on-line gallery, so that has zero value for
>me. I only care about these forums.
>
>
>... Back to the point... what happens when many of those 94%
>don't upgrade? Won't the traffic of posts come to a
>screeching halt? To me, that's a lot of free information
>going down the tubes, perhaps including mine...
>

I did read the post and was shocked that the number was so high at 94% ! I too feel the same way, I very much hope that we do not see the "traffic" come to a screeching halt.

John

D90 | 18-200mm VR | 50mm f/1.8 | SB600

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. - Wayne Gretzky

  

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madFive Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Dec 2008Tue 13-Jan-09 02:36 PM
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#7. "RE: --> 94% of posters non-members!!!"
In response to Reply # 6


US
          

I'm new here - joined as non-paying member just after I made the decision to buy my first Nikon camera. I don't pay for any of the other multitude of forums I visit on the net, and maybe I just haven't really grasped the full value of this site. I answered on that recent survey that I can't see ever upgrading to a paying membership, but I'm starting think I really owe it to myself and the site to explore a little more and try and make a more informed decision once I know what, if any, of these features I may want in the future.

For now, all I want to use is the forums, and I'm not accustomed to having to pay for those.

  

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ColColt Gold Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2008Tue 13-Jan-09 03:40 PM
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#8. "RE: --> 94% of posters non-members!!!"
In response to Reply # 7


Knoxville, US
          

There's an old saying in the canine world...it's called NILIF(nothing in life is free). I upgraded to silver about two months back and have gotten my money back four fold. I also paid several years ago to help out a new computer forum start from some old friends at another fourm who wanted to try and start their own. That fourm is now five years old and going good. The money I contributed (very little) has also paid for itself in the instructions, help and knowledge I've gained just by being there. Go to a dating service forum and you'll pay a lot more than $25 for their services and God knows what you'd end up with!! Want to talk with a lawyer about a divorce? Well, you can imagine what that will cost you and I won't even talk about what a plumber will cost you just to come out and pay a visit.


My goal in life is to be the person my dog already thinks I am.

  

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PaulBennett Registered since 09th May 2008Sun 18-Jan-09 06:30 AM
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#35. "RE: --> 94% of posters non-members!!!"
In response to Reply # 8


US
          

>There's an old saying in the canine world...it's called
>NILIF(nothing in life is free).


Au contraire, mon frère. The saying is "The best things in life are free"

Depends upon whether you are a happy person, or just striving to be happy.

The happy person has learned to give and giving reaps huge rewards.
And happiness is free and spreading happiness is most rewarding.

  

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ColColt Gold Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2008Thu 22-Jan-09 03:25 PM
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#60. "RE: --> 94% of posters non-members!!!"
In response to Reply # 35


Knoxville, US
          

>>There's an old saying in the canine world...it's called
>>NILIF(nothing in life is free).
>
>
>Au contraire, mon frère. The saying is "The best things
>in life are free"
>
>Depends upon whether you are a happy person, or just striving
>to be happy.
>
>The happy person has learned to give and giving reaps huge
>rewards.
>And happiness is free and spreading happiness is most
>rewarding.

That's another saying of a different type. My reference was to the animal world and when you think about it, I know of few things that are truly free.

http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

So, mon ami, some things money can't buy but, cyberspace ain't one of them necessarily.


My goal in life is to be the person my dog already thinks I am.

  

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BTinOC Registered since 01st Jun 2008Wed 14-Jan-09 04:27 AM
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#11. "RE: --> 94% of posters non-members!!!"
In response to Reply # 7


Irvine, US
          

I "looked" for a few weeks, then joined. As you can see, I still haven't made more than a few postson this site. However, I look at it this way - the price of my Silver membership is just a drop in the bucket when compared to the knowledge and pure enjoyment I've recieved looking at this site.

B.T. - A Southern CA Nikonian

Photography: "See" what you've been missing!

  

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in4apenny Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2008Sun 18-Jan-09 04:26 AM
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#32. "RE: --> 94% of posters non-members!!!"
In response to Reply # 7
Mon 19-Jan-09 12:26 AM by in4apenny

St. Paul, US
          

As a person who has visited very few forums, in fact almost nil forums until after Nikonians, I thought nothing of the almost 50 cents a week that I have paid to join. For myself, I enjoy photography, but I don't have a great deal of knowledge. This has been the best spent tuition(or investment) I have ever made, on a subject that provides me a great deal of pleasure.


I can't thank you forum respondees enough. And Hey you forum administrators HEAR THIS:


THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, TALENT AND EFFORTS

Steve Burnes

The value of wisdom is in its retention and disbursment

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Paul_Fisher Gold Member Awarded for his multiple article contributions Charter MemberSun 18-Jan-09 08:01 AM
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#37. "RE: --> 94% of posters non-members!!!"
In response to Reply # 32


Perth, AU
          

Thank you Steve, for your generous support.

Paul Fisher
Nikonian in Perth, Western Australia
My home page

  

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gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Tue 13-Jan-09 04:24 PM
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#9. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 0


Chicago, US
          

A better statistic would be to count the useful responders' membership status to a question posting. That way we could see who benefits and who helps the others, which might be a more significant and interesting number. And if one were to place a value to the complexity of the answer or post of valuable information coming from paid vs. free posters there could be an even more interesting value.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

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PROWLER69 Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Wed 14-Jan-09 03:25 AM
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#10. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 0


Wading River, US
          

I became a paying contributor almost imediately after finding this forum. There are so many forums out there with Nikon sub forums but none come near this place. Any question I asked was answered super quick, accurate and polite. Go on some of the photoshop forums and they snub there noses at you when you ask a beginners question. I seen question here as almost as basic on how to turn the camera on. And it was answered politely and fast. I don't use there gallery space either but I figure it's money well spent for such a data base. If I take my grand children to Mac Donalds it costs more then a Silver membership here. IMHO its worth it.
Eddie


D-90, MB-D80 Grip, 35-70mm f/2.8D, 18-200mm VR DX, 50mm f/1.8D, 24mm f/2.8D, SB-800
"If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name in a Swiss bank account".
Woody Allen


http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/gallery/view_img.php?id=27273

http://www.pbase.com/tomcat68/root

  

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Omsai Registered since 27th Jun 2006Wed 14-Jan-09 02:26 PM
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#12. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

That is so true Eddie - the best photo site around. Guess many of us here have that coin-jar laying around somewhere - time has come to put that in use, it should cover a silver membership at least for a year. Could not be a better use of those 'poor' coins. Just my 2 cents!
RC

  

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Flux101 Registered since 24th Aug 2007Wed 14-Jan-09 03:01 PM
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#13. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 0


Brantford, CA
          

I haven't decided what I'd do at this point. I too am one that finds I don't need a web-hosted spot for my photos.

I mainly read these forums to a.) see the problems and ideas others have relating to my hobby and b.) help others whenever I can with my limited experience.

If I had to pay for every forum I visited/posted in, I'd be broke as I frequent quite a few in many different genres (photography, computer gaming, automobiles, new technology, to name a few). I can say that I know hosting a "forum" is not expensive but I'm sure the hosting of all of those pictures is and if a webmaster is being paid, that too can be expensive. I say this because I pay to host a website AND gaming server for a online gaming team I play with/direct.

But count me in as one that's leaning towards joining though.

  

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cspring22 Registered since 14th Jan 2009Wed 14-Jan-09 06:05 PM
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#14. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 13


US
          

I browse 2 forums on almost a daily basis - Nikonians and the UMGF (Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum). I post on the UMGF infrequently and while I've read here for 2 years (and made some buying decisions based on what I've read), I have never posted or joined until today. Shame on me for "mooching" your knowledge for 2 years, but, the $20 has more than been recovered by what I have already learned and enjoyed. As of today, I am gladly paying my dues....

Regards,
Chuck

By the way, I have a D80 and am thinking of upgrading to a D90 or a D300....what's everyone's opinion??? (just kidding :-_)

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Holmes375 Registered since 09th Sep 2006Wed 14-Jan-09 08:39 PM
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#17. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 14


RO
          

Glad to have you aboard, Chuck!

The D80 is a righteous machine, to be sure, but then there is that pesky NAS syndrome

-Holmes
http://holmes.zenfolio.com/

  

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in4apenny Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2008Mon 19-Jan-09 12:57 AM
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#43. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 14
Mon 19-Jan-09 12:59 AM by in4apenny

St. Paul, US
          

Welcome aboard Chuck. Interesting question about the D90 or D300? I read a post around here somewhere posing that same question. It seems that the guy was going to get the D300, then discovered the video clip feature on the D90, was momentarily stunned, asked for peoples opinion, and in the end he decided that for the few times he would use the video feature, it would be better to get a movie camera. Plus I think a movie camera lends itself better to holding and capturing a moving scene, then a DSLR would. Back to saving for the D300

The value of wisdom is in its retention and disbursment

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Worf Registered since 14th Jan 2005Thu 15-Jan-09 04:32 AM
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#23. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 13


CA
          

Right now, I'm a non-paying member. I own a D70 that works great for me (I've got no reason to upgrade) and a few lenses I want (but haven't bought yet - right now I'm just on the stock kit 18-70DX lens).

The reason I'm not paying is simple - the amount I post and what I use Nikonians for is very limited, and the additional benefits I get would be wasted. I don't really care for gallery space (I have my own domain and my own hosting already), I don't visit the other forums, nor do I feel the need to purchase more gear (those lenses have been on my want list for 3+ years now - I don't buy 'em because I won't use it too often).

I think this is one of my first posts in months, too, so read-only access will probably suit me. I have to say I've looked at the new Nikons, but the D70 suits me fine for my purposes and upgrading would be just getting even more camera that I won't use fully. Heck, I forgot they even had ads here.

I understand why Nikonians is doing this, and I hope that it survives. I might look at it to see the odd camera review and maybe some interesting techniques. Would be sad to leave, but oh well.

  

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Efem Registered since 14th Sep 2004Wed 14-Jan-09 07:22 PM
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#15. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 0


New York City, US
          

I think it's obvious that everyone will have to decide for themselves whether or not the forums are worth $25.

As a paying member for the past 4+ years, it's equally obvious that I currently feel they are worth the cost.

I've been involved in photography for nearly 40 years and, for all but the last 2, shot film with manual focus cameras. Even with that background, it took me a while to get the quality of my digital images to at least equal those I shot with film.

The answers to the questions that I asked or came across on Nikonians saved me countless hours of trial and error. The forums also helped me to fine-tune my equipment choices saving me a heck of a lot more than $25 in the process.

Although I do have a small gallery here, I don't put my best work on the Internet. I also don't bother with the reviews and articles as they are so poorly formatted that it makes them impossible to print and read in any useful way.

I have another 8 or so months until my current silver membership expires. Unless I see a real falloff in quality, I see no reason not to renew it.

  

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ronj2 Registered since 31st Jan 2007Wed 14-Jan-09 08:29 PM
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#16. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 15
Wed 14-Jan-09 08:36 PM by ronj2

US
          

Im one of the non members. With all the free forums around like DPreview and The Luminous Landscape and Digital OutBack and Fred miranda, Strobist, flickers various forums ect, I just don't see the point in paying. I already have a photo hosting site anyway.

I have no problem with Nikonians requiring a membership though. It will probably be a better community as a result and benifit its paying members, although the number of posts will lower.

  

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tundracamper Registered since 22nd Nov 2006Thu 15-Jan-09 01:23 AM
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#20. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 15
Thu 15-Jan-09 01:24 AM by tundracamper

US
          

>The answers to the questions that I asked or came across on
>Nikonians saved me countless hours of trial and error. The
>forums also helped me to fine-tune my equipment choices saving
>me a heck of a lot more than $25 in the process.

>Shame on me for "mooching" your knowledge for 2 years

If you want to call it mooching, fine. But when you are "contributing" information for other users, you are providing a value, for free! Nikonians doesn't pay me for my answers and tips. Let's be real. Nikonians is a web site that hosts the forums. It is NOT a bunch of paid photographers sitting at there PC's in a hotline fashion waiting to answer people's questions. That is, it is not a paid help line, like for software.

OK, the e-zine, reviews, etc, are nice. But, I can just as easily get that information elsewhere on the internet. All I care about is the forums.

I agree that the fee of $20 is not unreasonable . However, if all of us moved over to a free forum on Yahoo, would the information not be just as useful? Granted, it would not be formatted nearly as conveniently. I guess I have to decide if that convenience is worth a fee. All the other stuff advertised in the e-mail is of ZERO value to me.

Perhaps if they would cut the annual fee to something like $5 or $10 and just not offer me all that other fluff, the decision would be easier.

The bottom line...call me cheap - but when I spend 30 minutes putting information for other users in a nice forum response, I think that has some value too. Do you see me asking for money? No, and now I'm going to have to pay to help others out. That just seems backwards. If it's free, it all works out - I help and I get help:->

  

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lofling Registered since 19th Jun 2008Sun 18-Jan-09 06:19 AM
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#34. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 20


SE
          

>If you want to call it mooching, fine. But when you are
>"contributing" information for other users, you are
>providing a value, for free! Nikonians doesn't pay me for my
>answers and tips. Let's be real. Nikonians is a web site that
>hosts the forums. It is NOT a bunch of paid photographers
>sitting at there PC's in a hotline fashion waiting to answer
>people's questions. That is, it is not a paid help line, like
>for software.

Let's be real. Running a site is NOT free. Buying a camera, lenses, tripod and flash is NOT free. $25 per year is almost free...

>Perhaps if they would cut the annual fee to something like $5
>or $10 and just not offer me all that other fluff, the
>decision would be easier.

I would agree that a $10 for just forum access could be a good alternative.

>The bottom line...call me cheap - but when I spend 30 minutes
>putting information for other users in a nice forum response,
>I think that has some value too. Do you see me asking for
>money? No, and now I'm going to have to pay to help others
>out. That just seems backwards. If it's free, it all works
>out - I help and I get help:->

Do you see anybody around here asking for money? I just paid for a gold membership, since I got a D300 book and the membership for less than $75. I don't need the photo sharing, I already have zenfolio.

I am sorry about my tone, I have seen responses like yours around here several times. I don't know why I get upset, but I do. I guess we just have to wait and see what happens to Nikonians. I do think that the site will still be fine, even after losing some non-paying members, even though maybe not do as well as before.

Unfortunately, that is real life. That has happened to most people after the last crash anyway.

___________________________________

Visit my Nikonians gallery.


Or have a look at fling.zenfolio.com

  

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Socrates Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Apr 2008Wed 14-Jan-09 10:52 PM
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#18. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

I suspect that there are many posters like me. I just never got around to paying for the Silver membership until I was prodded.

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 05th May 2002Thu 15-Jan-09 12:37 AM
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#19. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 18


Colorado Springs, US
          

Thanks for your support.

Rick Walker

My photos:

GeoVista Photography

  

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ROD H Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Jun 2007Thu 15-Jan-09 02:23 AM
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#21. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 19


MELVILLE, US
          

I think its a great site to learn many things and I'm proud to be a siver member and will continue to be one

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 05th May 2002Thu 15-Jan-09 03:27 AM
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#22. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 21


Colorado Springs, US
          

Thanks, Rod.

Rick Walker

My photos:

GeoVista Photography

  

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edac Registered since 18th Jan 2007Thu 15-Jan-09 08:11 AM
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#24. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 22
Thu 15-Jan-09 08:12 AM by edac

US
          

After 2 days of stweing over changes i made up my mind to turn off my auto pay membership renewal. I also sent a message as to why I was doing so. Within 3 hours I recieved an e-mail from JRP, it was short but very pleasant. I decided at that time i was going to continue to be a member here and support this great site. Its rare that a complaint is answered by an owner of a company, especially when you tell them why you think they are wrong. JRP's e-mail convinced me that this is a man who deeply cares about this site and the members of this site. I believe he truely thinks this move will be a positive direction for this community. Whether he is right or wrong is still to be seen, but I have decided that I am going to support his decision and remain a paying member. I have over the years felt that the site was worth paying for, so after thinking for sometime, I believe it is still worth the small investment.

As some of you may have seen, I was very critical of this move and felt it was wrong, I am still on the fence, but I have decided to support JRP in his decision and will stay and do my part to keep this site the home for Nikon owners and Nikon hopefuls worldwide. We have a great thing going here, I really never have the need to go elswhere for information because it is all here. Sure it is not perfect, but IMHO it is the best around, and I for one am determined to keep it that way.

For Bo, JRP, et al I will help in anyway I can, please do not hesitate to call upon me if I can be of any assistance. I owned and operated a Real Estate Brokerage for 14 years, so I know a little bit about running a business. So like I said just ask and I will do my part or more if needed, I think this site is worth it. I am going to upgrade to a Platnum membership as soon as I can, so I will be putting my money where my mouth is. So right now I am going to the Proo Shop and get a hat and a t-shirt to show my Nikonian pride.

Thanks Bo and JRP for a wonderful place where Nikonians from all over the world can call home, You should be proud of what you have created here, and I for one am thankful.

Mark

Thanks,
Mark


It's Good to be Gold!
Proudly Supporting Nikonians

http://www.klr-650.blogspot.com
---------------------------------
Not all those who wander are lost.

  

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svante Registered since 23rd May 2006Thu 15-Jan-09 12:55 PM
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#25. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 24


London, UK
          

Wow, that must have been one heck of an email that he sent you.

Hard to see how introducing a charge for something that used to be free (or, rather, paid for by advertising (which is very typical on the Internet)) could be *positive* for the community... Unless they are planning to pull advertising as a result (doubt it!) or want to create a smaller, tight-knit circle of active partipicants, those who *really* care (ie are prepared to put their own money in..)...

I appreciate that $25 per year should not make a big difference neither here nor there for most of us, but past experience of many failed Internet companies demonstrate a strong inertia against paying for site access and/or basic services (and I think reading and posting on forums would count). Good luck to Nikonians though, I hope it works out.

  

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in4apenny Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2008Mon 19-Jan-09 01:07 AM
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#44. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 24


St. Paul, US
          

Hear Hear

The value of wisdom is in its retention and disbursment

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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akrabat Registered since 03rd Jun 2007Sat 17-Jan-09 09:37 PM
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#28. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 19


UK
          

>Thanks for your support.

I bought Silver specifically because of The Image Doctors podcast. You and Jason do an excellent job.

In terms of usability, I find most other forum software much better at telling me which posts I've read and which ones I haven't. The Nikonians forum software is a right pain when it comes to working out which posts in a given thread a new since last looked at.

Regards,

Rob...

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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SoonerSarah Registered since 20th Dec 2008Thu 22-Jan-09 06:17 PM
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#63. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 18


US
          

>I suspect that there are many posters like me. I just never
>got around to paying for the Silver membership until I was
>prodded.

I just have to say HI George!


I haven't paid yet. I'm sure I will eventually, but I'm currently paying 2 mortgages and money's always tight.

I'm a member on several sites, and there is only one that I "pay" for. I actually don't pay though, I advertise my jewelry for sale through there and I donate a portion of my proceeds to the site.

While I know $20 isn't a lot of money, I wonder if they were to offer other options, such as $10 without a gallery, but able to post pictures, if they could end up getting more interest.

  

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Dan__ Registered since 26th Aug 2007Fri 16-Jan-09 10:21 PM
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#26. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

I personally am very annoyed at this decision to limit the forums, and think it's a poor one for the community.

Granted, I haven't posted much in the last few months (as I've been too busy both at home and at work), but I think that there is an awful lot of good information here, from both members and non-members. I've learned an awful lot by reading here (and other places) and asking questions. But I have shared my knowledge when I have time, and participate. I am not a member, and since I can no longer be contributing to it, you will miss:

  • my boring questions
  • my easy questions
  • my stimulating questions
  • my stupid answers
  • my insightful bits of wisdom
  • my heartfelt support or guidance during your time of unstoppable NAS.


If you are able to look back on my posts, you can decide if I was helpful overall. I can tell you this though, in my time here, I never felt there was much in the way of garbage that to me said, non-paying members should not be allowed to post.

I think it's a sad day, not just for me, but for Nikonians when the non-members can no longer participate. Good luck here, but I expect the community to dwindle. Not die, but be a shell of its former self. It has been a great site, with not only a substantial amount of information, but also a very high signal to noise ratio, a pretty rare combination as far as forums go. The S/N ratio may go up ever so slightly with only non-members, but IMHO, it doesn't need to. The quantity will without a doubt go down.

And that's just too bad.

Take care,

    -Dan



      

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Pursuit Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Jan 2003Sun 18-Jan-09 06:34 AM
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#36. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 26


Kihei, US
          

I'm a little curious. You don't want to pay to keep the site afloat. JRP has already posted information stating that all funds received from the site go back into running the site, and even then they come up with occasional deficits that the principles cover out of their own pockets.

Why would JRP and Bo want to keep spending their own money so that you can access the site for free? I wouldn't even expect Bill Gates to buy into that plan.

Jim Kelly
There's no sense making a mistake unless you plan to learn from it.

  

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Dan__ Registered since 26th Aug 2007Sun 18-Jan-09 04:13 PM
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#38. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 36


US
          

Jim,

I'm not sure what they're spending money on, but the only thing I use from this site are the forums.

Everywhere you go on the internet, with rare exception, forums are free to the user, supported by advertising, because the costs are not that high.

$25 is an awful lot for access to single set of forums. It's double what I'm willing to pay for most magazine subscriptions, and for that price I get something that has real paper and is mailed to my door. Not only that, but they supply the information content. Here, you do, and I do. Nikonians would be $25 a year more than I pay for any other forum.

On the main page, it says there are 157304 registered members. I would assume that includes the non-paying members. Still, do you think it takes nearly $4 Million per year to run this site? If every registered individual converted, that's what the intake would be.

I could kind of see it if it were more reasonable (like $5 a year), but I guess so many people here are used to spending such big bucks on their bodies and lenses that they think, "what's another $25?" I'll tell you what - SLRs are crazy more expensive than point and shoots. I've been saving for 3 years foregoing other birthday and holiday presents to get the least expensive body that has a focus motor that I want, which I don't yet have (I'm currently using a D40 demo), along with a couple lenses. I don't have all the lighting equipment that I want, and one of these days, I think I'd like to move on to making purchases for my other hobbies. I'm sorry, but these forums just don't seem to qualify for NAS, and more importantly, it's not the only site I can go to for information. Is nikonians a good place? Sure. But I can get my groceries down the street just fine thank you.

Do you honestly think that there are a ton of people who own D40's or other not-so-insanely-expensive models that would like the idea of spending $25 to participate to find info? The numbers for non-member participation over on the D40/50/60 forum are even higher - by my count of 50, 80% of the threads are started by non-paying-members.

If you don't support a free way to participate, you increase the barriers to entrance, which will limit the opportunities for growth, and only serve to increase attrition.

But beyond what I care, you don't think this will have a negative affect on your community?

    -Dan

      

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Mr_Glass Registered since 12th Jun 2006Sun 18-Jan-09 05:25 PM
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#39. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 38
Sun 18-Jan-09 05:28 PM by Mr_Glass

US
          

>Jim,
>
>I'm not sure what they're spending money on, but the only
>thing I use from this site are the forums.
>
>Everywhere you go on the internet, with rare exception, forums
>are free to the user, supported by advertising, because the
>costs are not that high.
>
>$25 is an awful lot for access to single set of forums. It's
>double what I'm willing to pay for most magazine
>subscriptions, and for that price I get something that has
>real paper and is mailed to my door. Not only that, but
>they supply the information content. Here, you
>do
, and I do. Nikonians would be $25 a year more
>than I pay for any other forum.
>
>On the main page, it says there are 157304 registered members.
> I would assume that includes the non-paying members.
>Still, do you think it takes nearly $4 Million per year to run
>this site? If every registered individual converted, that's
>what the intake would be.
>
>I could kind of see it if it were more reasonable (like $5 a
>year), but I guess so many people here are used to spending
>such big bucks on their bodies and lenses that they think,
>"what's another $25?" I'll tell you what - SLRs are
>crazy more expensive than point and shoots. I've been saving
>for 3 years foregoing other birthday and holiday presents to
>get the least expensive body that has a focus motor that I
>want, which I don't yet have (I'm currently using a D40 demo),
>along with a couple lenses. I don't have all the lighting
>equipment that I want, and one of these days, I think I'd like
>to move on to making purchases for my other hobbies. I'm
>sorry, but these forums just don't seem to qualify for NAS,
>and more importantly, it's not the only site I can go to for
>information. Is nikonians a good place? Sure. But I can get
>my groceries down the street just fine thank you.
>
>Do you honestly think that there are a ton of people who own
>D40's or other not-so-insanely-expensive models that would
>like the idea of spending $25 to participate to find info?
>The numbers for non-member participation over on the D40/50/60
>forum are even higher - by my count of 50, 80% of the threads
>are started by non-paying-members.
>
>If you don't support a free way to participate, you increase
>the barriers to entrance, which will limit the opportunities
>for growth, and only serve to increase attrition.
>
>But beyond what I care, you don't think this will have a
>negative affect on your community?
>
>

    -Dan
    >
    >
    I agree - and I hate to say it but - almost seems like an arrogance factor- If you want to be in the club - pay - I dunno - Maybe I will just hang out at the Cafe and not feel like I owe anyone anything...

    I hate that it sounds bad - but your point is like a 1.4 50mm --tack on..

      

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Pursuit Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Jan 2003Sun 18-Jan-09 07:04 PM
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#40. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 38


Kihei, US
          

There's no question there will be an effect. There have been several changes over the years that have affected the community. At the beginning of each change there is usually talk of the negative side. For the most part these have been over-stated and the result has been a continually improved community. I suspect this change will bring about an improvement as well - for those that stay.

The only constant is change.

But some form of change is necessary. It costs money to run a web site of this complexity, storage, and bandwidth. There are lots of forums out there that provide free admittance. There are also lots out there that don't. Each has a business model that covers their cost, or they have a large corporation or lots of venture capitalists funding them willing to eat the costs while striving for some ultimate golden goose. If this community can't support itself it will eventually fold. So the current changes should be measured against that ultimate negative effect, not the status quo of running successive deficits.

JRP and Bo have been quietly eating the difference between income and expense for years. They drop subtle hints now and then that they need to increase income to cover expenses but they have never complained.

It is pointless to talk about the $4M that silver memberships from 157,304 members would bring. They won't all join regardless of the rate, and it would be pretty poor management practices to assume they would. You take a guess at how many will join based upon various rate scenarios, choose the scenario that looks most appealing and manageable, and go.

Jim Kelly
There's no sense making a mistake unless you plan to learn from it.

  

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Dan__ Registered since 26th Aug 2007Mon 19-Jan-09 12:47 AM
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#42. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 40


US
          

    Jim said: There's no question there will be an effect. There have been
    several changes over the years that have affected the
    community. At the beginning of each change there is usually
    talk of the negative side. For the most part these have been
    over-stated and the result has been a continually improved
    community.

But there's never been a change that forced people to pay. jrp has indicated that there is still a basic membership, it just doesn't last as long. That opinion seems to belittle the notion that you're unlikely to win anyone over in that short of a time, unless they actually know someone who highly recommends the site. (And I'm not talking about people they meet here.)

    I suspect this change will bring about an improvement as well - for those that stay.

I suspect that improvement will be short lived, as the community begins to slowly dwindle. Here's my unfortunate prediction. (I say unfortunate because I would like to see the community flourish.) So my prediction -
  1. You see an increase in conversions during the conversion period - people who wish to support "the community" and people who were on the fence just needing to be prodded.
  2. You see a slightly elevated set of conversions for a short time following the expiration of the initial conversion of the basic membership (i.e. during Feb 2009).
  3. New subscriptions and participation will dwindle, most notably and firstly on the D40/50/60 pages.
  4. You'll begin to notice you only see comments from rank newbees, (i.e. people on their short-lived basic membership) and seasoned nikonians, and very few intermediate folks.
  5. You'll slowly begin to lose membership due to attrition.
  6. A viable competitor will show up.
  7. You'll begin to notice drop offs in other forums.
  8. Ad revenue will begin to drop.
  9. Membership fees will rise to meet costs.
  10. Further membership declines will occur.


How many people are gonna come over even? Look at all the people making supporting posts. Multiply that by 10. What are you up to? An extra 500 people? And how many people are going to get turned away? It's hard to see their numbers, but try multiplying any visible signs by at least 25. (It's much easier to just let it go than post about it).

    But some form of change is necessary. It costs money to run a
    web site of this complexity, storage, and bandwidth. There
    are lots of forums out there that provide free admittance.
    There are also lots out there that don't. Each has a business
    model that covers their cost, or they have a large corporation
    or lots of venture capitalists funding them willing to eat the
    costs while striving for some ultimate golden goose.

I am not aware of any pay-only photographic forums that I know people using, in part because there is already a number of forums for good advice, including strobist, sportsshooter, photo net, dp review, to name a few.

My suspicion is that the site would be best off if the forums served to collect lots of members and then exposed them to all of the wonderful content that is available, that they could then choose from, if desired. It's marketing's job to convince people the products are worth it.

Do you really think you can convince many newbies to pony up $25 after a month of exposure? I highly doubt that you'll see much. Then what? A closed community?

    JRP and Bo have been quietly eating the difference between income and expense for years.

So maybe take up a collection instead of turning away potentially 94% of the membership?

    It is pointless to talk about the $4M that silver memberships
    from 157,304 members would bring. They won't all join
    regardless of the rate, and it would be pretty poor management
    practices to assume they would. You take a guess at how many
    will join based upon various rate scenarios, choose the
    scenario that looks most appealing and manageable, and go.

The nikonians FAQ states "That means 94% (over 140,000 members) are participating in the community free of charge... The above means only approximately 13% of our costs are covered by paid memberships." This implies that 6% are already paying $25 and up, so they are already collecting over $200,000, and that expenses are at least $1.5 million. I'm sorry, but that's a lot of coin.

Forums just don't cost that much to run. It sounds like they're trying to hit up the non-paying "moochers", who are actually significant contributers of content (in contrast to what jrp's seemingly snide title alludes to, in post #33 below), and have them pay for the rest of the site which is apparently not generating the necessary profit for sustainment.

Do I want to "join the club" like Mr. Glass suggested? No thanks, I ain't no Country Clubber.
(Mr. Glass thx for the comments, BTW)
.

jrp has said:
    We needed an effective and fast solution. We are not trying to solve a momentary crisis or to fund the operations costs for this year only. We needed to secure a system in place that works for several years to come.

This sounds like a get rich quick scheme that isn't going to work. In any case, I expect the site to gain some fast cash, but lose in the long run. And that would really be too bad.

Would you like an alternate plan? Try something more reasonable - maybe 6 months of free basic, and then $5/yr for continued full forum use. You might actually get some of my money that way.

    -Dan

      

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tundracamper Registered since 22nd Nov 2006Mon 19-Jan-09 02:10 AM
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#45. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 42


US
          

>I am not aware of any pay-only photographic forums that I know
>people using, in part because there is already a number of
>forums for good advice, including strobist, sportsshooter,
>photo net, dp review, to name a few.

Dan: This is NOT a fair comparison. Wouldn't you agree that about 95% of the content over at strobist is generated by Mr. Hobby? Still, that site is free and most of us that frequent that site are definitely moochers! Please don't tell Mr. Hobby I said that :-> I cannot begin to tell you how much I have learned from that incredible site.

>It's marketing's job to
>convince people the products are worth it.

I tried the Silver membership for a year. I never used the galleries or the For Sale forums. I just don't see any value in those. To me, the VALUE is in all the activity and forum posts from all sorts of people. In my opinion, making the community closed LOWERS it's value.

>so they are already collecting over
>$200,000, and that expenses are at least $1.5 million. I'm
>sorry, but that's a lot of coin.

C'mon Dan! Didn't you read all of that post. They have 3 full time people running the gift shop (ok PhotoProShop). Talk about overhead!!! While it may feel good to have such a resource, do people really buy from there? It must generate a profit to justify keeping it going. So, I guess I can't argue on that one.

>Forums just don't cost that much to run.

I honestly don't think we're talking about the forums. The community has continued to add all sorts of resources, like the e-zine, podcasts, etc., etc. While I think some of those resources are great info and I enjoy them, they must add more burden on the entire system. At some point, adding service adds to cost. Eventually, you have to pass the bill onto someone.

I know I'm sounding critical, even though I don't mean to be. I have gained a lot of useful information from Nikonians and have very much enjoyed my stay here. However, I do feel the value of what I have gained has been greatly offset by the value that I have contributed. Others may not agree, and that is fine. Despite all this, I feel, like you, that it just seems silly to pay for the resources that I use AND contribute to. No, $25 is not a lot. I can spend that much on magazines. Nevertheless, I feel it's more about the principle than the money.

As you suggest, in the long run a similar resource will likely emerge and many of the same participants will appear there. I guess I'll just have to wait and see. Who knows, maybe after a few months my photography skills will all disappear and I'll have to come back here go get going again. I do plan to try being away for a while. Perhaps I'll spend more of my newfound free time taking photos. Now that's an interesting thought!!

>jrp has said:
>We needed an effective and fast solution.
>Would you like an alternate plan? Try something more
>reasonable

Dan, I think I have the answer...
LET'S GET THE GOVERNMENT TO BAIL OUT NIKONIANS!!!!

  

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Dan__ Registered since 26th Aug 2007Tue 20-Jan-09 01:28 PM
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#47. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 45


US
          

      I said: I am not aware of any pay-only photographic forums that I know people using, in part because there is already a number of forums for good advice, including strobist, sportsshooter, photo net, dp review, to name a few.

    tundracamper replied: This is NOT a fair comparison. Wouldn't you agree that about 95% of the content over at strobist is generated by Mr. Hobby? Still, that site is free and most of us that frequent that site are definitely moochers! Please don't tell Mr. Hobby I said that :-> I cannot begin to tell you how much I have learned from that incredible site.

I hate when people disagree with me. ;-)

You are absolutely correct. strobist is an excellent site, with content provided almost entirely by one person, for free. And there are others who do sites like that that as well. The founders need to make a change to keep their site going, but they are not analyzing their own value correctly in the marketplace. For you and I, this stinks, because we're not in the "I'm willing to pay you $25 or more" category, But for the founders, and for the rest of the community, they will all suffer a loss, because people like you and me will no longer be contributing to the community.

    tc: In my opinion, making the community closed LOWERS it's value.

See, now you're just agreeing with me. How am I supposed to argue with that?

    C'mon Dan! Didn't you read all of that post. They have 3 full time people running the gift shop (ok PhotoProShop).

Ok, now it's even harder to argue when I'm ROTFLMAO.

But actually, they should be able to measure their profit/loss of the gift shop very easily. I hope that it's a positive.

    Eventually, you have to pass the bill onto someone.

Right. And I ain't buyin. Unfortunately, that will just make the costs higher for everyone else.

    I know I'm sounding critical, even though I don't mean to be. I have gained a lot of useful information from Nikonians and have very much enjoyed my stay here. However, I do feel the value of what I have gained has been greatly offset by the value that I have contributed.

Right. And that's the crux of the matter.

    Perhaps I'll spend more of my newfound free time taking photos. Now that's an interesting thought!!

Naw, that's just heresy!

    Dan, I think I have the answer...
    LET'S GET THE GOVERNMENT TO BAIL OUT NIKONIANS!!!!

III LLLLLIIIKKEEE IT!!!!


  

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RidinRev66 Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Oct 2006Fri 16-Jan-09 11:43 PM
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#27. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 0


Albuquerque, US
          

As far as I am concerned Nikonians is superior to any other site where you can share information and enthusiasm for Nikon cameras. I joined as soon as I discovered this forum. I do not use the gallery, I post infrequently, but I greatly enjoy reading and learning about all of my Nikon equipment from other afficianados! For the enjoyment and expertise I experience here my paltry $25 Silver membership fee is way more that worth it. In fact, I am considering an increased level just so that I can assure the continued health of this web site.

Sincere thanks to all of you dedicated Nikonians who make this such a great place to share our appreciation for Nikon's great photographic tools!

Phil
FM2N, FE2, FA, F3, F100, D80, D200

  

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Calgary 617 Registered since 13th Jan 2009Wed 21-Jan-09 10:00 PM
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#52. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 27


Calgary, CA
          

I was very surprised that I just received an email that my account will be deactivated if I don't join. Knowing that there are other boards that offer different kinds of membership, I thought that reading/posting is free.

>As far as I am concerned Nikonians is superior to any other
>site where you can share information and enthusiasm for Nikon
>cameras.

This may be just because you are limited to english speaking boards.
I am a memberof this website http://www.nikon-fotografie.de/vbulletin/index.php , which is a german Nikon board. It is free, offers a gallery (free) and has thousands of active members from beginners up to professionals. All of them share their knowledge and help each other out with tips. To cover the costs, there was just an auction where a member donated a lens that was sold to give the people maintaining the board something back.

It's the members that contribute to a board that give it it's quality. I thought nikonians would be a good idea to network with people within North America / Canada and discuss with those, but if I have to pay for this, I'm out. Why not set up a donation via paypal? Or get money from websites? I know Ken Rockwell is making money with people clicking the links on his site to buy at online stores. Also a good idea to get money for your bills to pay. But the overall value I would get for the 25$ is nothing compared to what I can get for free out in the web.

I think it's good that people are willing to support this website with their memberships and I don't want to say "Hey guys, you know you can get all this for free?". But I am sure this will sooner or later affect the quality of the board and the amount of members, who at the end of the day give the most important input. The owners of the website need them to have an attractive board as well and "pay" them with the opportunity to get/give information. It's give and take, but if I have to pay to give (because I can take test results, opinions etc on "review" pages of selling websites), I'm out.

Still I wish you lots of fun in here and hope the community will stay alive.

  

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brooksro Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Aug 2007Sat 17-Jan-09 10:52 PM
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#29. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

I recently upgraded from basic to silver. I felt that the resource was too great to lose. If the quality of the resource becomes greatly downgraded, then I will simply not renew when the time comes. I have a feeling it will remain a great resource.

MrB

  

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rockydays Registered since 13th Oct 2008Sat 17-Jan-09 11:45 PM
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#30. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 29


Alsip, US
          

I joined last fall after finding this site by accident. This is my 2nd post and I posted a picture of my cat on the D40-60 forum. It's like the tv commercial New Nikon $500.00, Caribbean cruise to use your new Nikon $5,000, knowing how to use your new Nikon, Priceless.
$25.00 is almost like free and these sites are not cheap to maintain.
Best 25 I ever spent.

  

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stevstar Registered since 02nd Jan 2009Sun 18-Jan-09 02:34 AM
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#31. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 0


Naugatuck, US
          

I recently joined as a silver member. I have been following the posts for more than a year and finally figured out that if I can spend the money that I do on camera equipment, I can certainly afford another $25 to keep this excellent site going. Keep up the good work.

Steve

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberSun 18-Jan-09 04:39 AM
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#33. "RE: 94% of members non-contributors"
In response to Reply # 31
Sun 18-Jan-09 04:41 AM by jrp

San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

We thank you all for your support.

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy and the product catalog of the Photo Pro Shop

  

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James23p Moderator Awarded for his wide variety of skills, a true generalist both in film and digital photography Nikonian since 25th Apr 2004Sun 18-Jan-09 07:49 PM
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#41. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 31


Memphis, US
          

Steve thanks for the support I look forward to seeing you post often!

Kind Regards Jim

Share, Learn and Inspire
www.nikonians.org




I will use film until the last roll and last lab are gone. Go Navy

  

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Douglas_FL Registered since 18th Jul 2008Mon 19-Jan-09 04:34 PM
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#46. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 41


US
          

Is the board going to be read only or totally blocked if not a member?

Im one of those casual users, and its strictly the board. Ill throw in my 2cents every now and then if I can help, but really dont post all that often. So I know for what I have used the site for in the short time I have been here, I just dont feel is worth the upgrade to me. If I needed one of the other sections, I would feel differently.

I dont begrudge the ownership for trying to bring in revenue, but I just think $25 for a messageboard is too much. Maybe if there were a lower cost for just messageboard use and then a seperate cost for the storage, then I could see it. Especially with all the photo sites out there.

  

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Steezus Registered since 01st Jun 2008Wed 21-Jan-09 10:26 AM
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#48. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 46


Tokyo, JP
          

I am quite surprised that a forum function is requiring payment for actual use. Even the forums at Flickr are free to their non paying customers.

I am even more surprised I get spammed daily about needing to upgrade or leave. There is no place on in the email to opt out which is completely UNACCEPTABLE!

Now I am here one last time to find the email address so I can ask to be taken off the mailing list/have my account deleted.

There are so many other free forums out there to get information. During my stay here I noticed that it basically has the most difficult format to deal with i.e. replies are highlight by the sideways carrot symbol and the theme is difficult for me to stomach, and lastly, my questions are answered much faster at other forums. Living in Japan this tells me this is more of a US centric population posting on this forum, which is ok, but it sure is nice to mingle with the rest of the world more often and speeds up the information during the hours I am awake.

Bon voyage.

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Wed 21-Jan-09 12:56 PM
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#49. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 48


Paignton, UK
          

>Now I am here one last time to find the email address so I can
>ask to be taken off the mailing list/have my account deleted.

We're sorry to see any member leave the Community, but using our Contact Form is generally the best option.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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rp50 Registered since 30th Aug 2006Wed 21-Jan-09 03:58 PM
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#50. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 49


Tjome, NO
          

I just paid my 20$ for a silver membership. On this sight I have got all the help I needed for mastering my D80. I check in every day and there are always something new to learn. In Norway you get one bottle of wine or ten liters of gasoline for the same price.So for me it was an easy choise,so I skip one bottle of wine this weekend and enjoy one year of membership on this great sight.

Rol

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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James23p Moderator Awarded for his wide variety of skills, a true generalist both in film and digital photography Nikonian since 25th Apr 2004Wed 21-Jan-09 10:38 PM
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#53. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 50


Memphis, US
          

Thanks rol for the kind words!

OT I really enjoyed my stay in Bodo Norway in the late 80's and again in the early 90's while I was in the US Navy, a great country.

Jim

Share, Learn and Inspire
www.nikonians.org




I will use film until the last roll and last lab are gone. Go Navy

  

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gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Wed 21-Jan-09 04:13 PM
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#51. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 48


Chicago, US
          

I have seen a number of free forums being closed to the public either by requiring a product purchase or by paid subscription.

As to free forums, you may find at a later date that these sites had a hidden agenda that you may not appreciate. Sort of like the "surveys" included on mailin warranty registrations. They were actually a tool to gather very personal information for the sale of marketing list to other companies or other interested undesirable individuals.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

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Martin E Registered since 15th Sep 2008Wed 21-Jan-09 11:27 PM
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#54. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 51


UK
          

Not sure what forums you've been looking at, but those that I frequent are based around community use, exchanging information, advice, critiques and help.

I am still struggling with the idea of paying $20 for a forum - regardless of the 'usefulness'.

I fear that the closed shop nature of this forum will mark the beginning of the end for a great exchange of information for those starting out with a Nikon camera. And without those new users, I do fear for the long term future of the forum.

I have not yet made my mind up whether to join - and I must admit that the frequent reminders are nudging me away - not sure why, I've just always shied away from being told what to do.

I am still weighing the decision up - sure $20 is not too much in the grand scheme of things - but this is 'only' a forum, and it grates to pay for the pleasure.

Whatever I decide, I have found the forum, on the whole, to be a very useful site for the exchange of information - and I wish you all well. Who knows, I may still be here posting away in a week or so's time.

Good luck

Martin

No, I've just hired it for the weekend - I've got no idea what I'm doing
Gallery WIP.

  

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Nikongram Registered since 22nd Jan 2009Thu 22-Jan-09 03:24 AM
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#55. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 54


US
          

I have been coming to this forum since I bought my D80 last year but hadn't paid for a membership. I have found the information here quite valuable. Most folks are very helpful, kind and respectful.

Tonight I joined and paid for the silver membership. It's so worth it, and I'm happy to support the site.

Thanks, Nikonians!

Best regards,
Joy

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Holmes375 Registered since 09th Sep 2006Thu 22-Jan-09 03:59 AM
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#56. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 55


RO
          

Welcome aboard, Joy! Glad you have found Nikonians a valuable resource.

This place sure helped me out a bunch when I went digital a few years ago.

When I review my favourites folders, I find a good number of Nikonian threads and articles in my archive for future reference. I do have threads and such from other sites stored but nowhere near as many as from this site.

Thank you for your support and confidence.

-Holmes
http://holmes.zenfolio.com/

  

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dhaneshr Registered since 15th Apr 2002Thu 22-Jan-09 01:41 PM
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#57. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 56


Toronto, CA
          

I've been a non-paying member for several years now. For some of us, particularly those from the third world countries, USD 25 is like a week's pay. . Non-paying members could perhaps be limited to posting only X posts per month, instead of not being able to post at all.

Dhanesh R.
Penang, Malaysia
"When people ask what equipment I use - I tell them my eyes. - Anonymous"

  

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Nikongram Registered since 22nd Jan 2009Thu 22-Jan-09 02:32 PM
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#59. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 57


US
          

Dhanesh, you make a good point. Perhaps that could be considered.

Joy

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Nikongram Registered since 22nd Jan 2009Thu 22-Jan-09 02:30 PM
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#58. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 56


US
          

And thank you, Holmes, for the welcome!

I am glad to finally make the leap to being a registered and supporting member.

I have learned so much from members' postings and have been impressed by the kindness and helpfulness found here. In addition to learning more about my wonderful D80, I have gotten tips and references to publications, such as Bryan Peterson's great book on exposure, that have helped me on my journey to shooting better photos.

This is a great site!

Joy

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Thu 22-Jan-09 03:35 PM
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#61. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 54


Chicago, US
          

Try the TaxBook forums. They were free last year, but this year you need to buy one of their products and provide the password provided with the product.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

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Douglas_FL Registered since 18th Jul 2008Thu 22-Jan-09 06:17 PM
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#62. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 61
Thu 22-Jan-09 06:18 PM by Douglas_FL

US
          

>Try the TaxBook forums. They were free last year, but this
>year you need to buy one of their products and provide the
>password provided with the product.
>
>


I would think thats a case of apples and oranges. Now if this was the official Nikon site and you needed to own a nikon camera to access it, then that example works. But a forum like theirs (taxBook) could be a case where they dont make a sale because someone got all the information they needed, so didnt buy their product.

Here, people already have a product. They are just look for information to be better.

  

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gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Thu 22-Jan-09 07:50 PM
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#64. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 62


Chicago, US
          

Last year it was free, so why are they changing their model?

Adobe has many forums and sites that are free. One is not required to purchase or even register an Adobe product to read the post at their sites, but one is required to register to post but not buy a product.

Just because one web site is set up one way does not require all the other web sites to follow that model.

When I started using a camera, one had to buy books, check books out of the public library, or join a camera club to learn how to improve their skills. I do not think any of those sources were free, as the public library was supported by the payment of property taxes.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

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Douglas_FL Registered since 18th Jul 2008Thu 22-Jan-09 08:17 PM
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#65. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 64


US
          

Im not them, so I cant answer. But maybe they found the open information led to a drop in sales of their product. The old "Why buy the cow..." thing.

Was just tossing it out there. Like I said in another post, if they wish to charge, they need to do what they think is right. Im not "entrenched" here yet, so to me its just 1 less site I surf. But I do find it odd they will be charging share ideas. If they wanted to charge for the server space for people to host items there or to buy/sell here, that makes sense. But to charge for talking to other people?

Oh well.

  

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gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Thu 22-Jan-09 08:57 PM
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#67. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 65
Thu 22-Jan-09 09:01 PM by gkaiseril

Chicago, US
          

Well, maybe there are places where one is restricted from talking to others or even having computers interconnected. There was a shut down of backup services using China based backup servers during the Olympics. So if China fears that data, they may also fear talking or posting.
You can "toss it out there" because of those for which the following applies:

"All gave some. Some gave all!"

Gave of themselves for you to do what you want to do. They also worked for an organiztion that made profound contributions to the development of computers, software, and the Internet.

An "Old Reliable".

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

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Douglas_FL Registered since 18th Jul 2008Fri 23-Jan-09 01:19 PM
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#69. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 67


US
          

>Well, maybe there are places where one is restricted from
>talking to others or even having computers interconnected.
>There was a shut down of backup services using China based
>backup servers during the Olympics. So if China fears that
>data, they may also fear talking or posting.
>You can "toss it out there" because of those for
>which the following applies:
>
>"All gave some. Some gave all!"
>
>Gave of themselves for you to do what you want to do. They
>also worked for an organiztion that made profound
>contributions to the development of computers, software, and
>the Internet.
>
>An "Old Reliable".
>


Odd tangent there. Not sure what people who died during conflicts have to do with charging to read a messageboard, but whatever.

  

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gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Fri 23-Jan-09 02:20 PM
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#70. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 69


Chicago, US
          

Maybe the government of the U.S. would be different and so would the laws of free speech. You only need to look at China, North Korea, or Iran to see how it could be different. The access to the Internet works very differently in those countries. If it is even available, it is heavily censored.I guess no one died to free the then colonies from the British rule. Or the other conflicts the U.S. has chosen to fight (right or wrong), or where the U.S. forces are continuing helping defend our allies.

You knew or should have known the rules of the "free trial" period when you joined. Since this rule was abused, it is now being enforced and you do not like it. Well you can either pay, file a legal suit to stop it, or move on. You have already expressed how unfair you feel you have been treated by this change in the enforcement of the rule. So it is time for you to move on.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

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Douglas_FL Registered since 18th Jul 2008Fri 23-Jan-09 03:13 PM
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#71. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 70


US
          

I still dont understand why you are bringing other countries politics into this. And I already said if they want to charge, then thats their right. I considered it, but decided it wasnt for me. Im not angry or want to file a lawsuit or anything like that. I dont take life seriously enough for that. Like Tex Avery said, "Never take life too seriously. Youll never get out alive".

As far as abusing the trial, I dont recall it saying it was a trial and that I would be required to upgrade. Just that if you upgrade, you got access to other things. I knew I would never have a reason to take advantage of those specials, so it wasnt in my best interest to up my membership.

So I dont know why you are so angry. I think you need to switch to decaf man, seriously. I didnt kick your dog or anything. I just disagreed with you. Life would be boring if everyone agreed on everything.

  

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gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Fri 23-Jan-09 03:47 PM
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#72. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 71


Chicago, US
          

I am tired of all those who think they do not have to pay for anything and are entitled to whatever they want.

The trial or free membership is spelled out in the terms of use.

The rules have changed learn to live with those changes.

I have been on job interviews where I was told I did not have to perform certain government service because the law had changed. But when I pointed out the law required it at the time I had to performed the service, the interviewer did not understand it at.

I guess your computer does not have an apostrophe or you never learned to use one in a contraction.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

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Douglas_FL Registered since 18th Jul 2008Fri 23-Jan-09 04:13 PM
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#73. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 72


US
          

Now you are just arguing for arguing's sake. So, Im done.

  

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gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Fri 23-Jan-09 04:42 PM
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#74. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 73
Fri 23-Jan-09 04:56 PM by gkaiseril

Chicago, US
          

And you still can not spell.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

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Douglas_FL Registered since 18th Jul 2008Fri 23-Jan-09 04:47 PM
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#75. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 74
Fri 23-Jan-09 05:28 PM by Douglas_FL

US
          

>And you stil can not spell.



There are 2 L's in "Still".

  

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dnf777 Registered since 08th Jan 2009Thu 22-Jan-09 08:18 PM
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#66. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 0


Franklin, US
          

I decided to join as a paying member soon after these forums provided me with useful info that would have taken MUCH more than the membership fee in books, not to mention the time to sort through them! Then my computer wouldn't allow me access to the forums! I must have a Jenny Craig computer, because it said my cookies were disabled!

In any case, I'll be paying my dues here as soon as my new iMac arrives. I'm tired of little pop-up "windows" constantly telling me there's some problem, and I can't do what I'm trying to do! I used to own a Mac, and still don't know why I ever went elsewhere!

Dave F

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Fri 23-Jan-09 06:20 AM
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#68. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 0


St Petersburg, RU
          

I just became aware of this community yesterday by reading posts from members who were upset by the new business model and were complaining on other forums. I was curious about what had them so upset as to not renew their paid membership.
I found the tone and content of Nikonians to be friendly and supportive with technical information not available other places, as least from I what I have been able to find since October when I was visiting back home to the US and bought my first DSLR, a D90.

I can see the reason for charging but I can also see how it is going to adversely affect membership, and even reputation on the web, the pool of potential members. After all, I came as I am sure others did also, only because of the complaints on other forums, which mostly got concurring responses.

In my case, living in another country, where local credit cards issued by the banks are not for use outside the country I have no way to pay for a membership and will unfortunately be left out.
I am sure there are thousands of people in the same position. I bought my last lens from a dealer who charged more but accepted wire bank transfer...a 70-200VR 2.8....from a cooperative US merchant. It was available here in Russia but for $2300 and carries a warranty only good in Russia. A D90 with kit lens is now just under $2000 after a price increase this week.
Without an alternative payment method the number of foreign members will decrease dramatically, regardless of their interest and ample abilty to pay. I was back in the US a few months ago so I could have paid then if I had known about the community. I doubt I will return for another year or longer. Out of the last 5 years I have visited my home twice.

The only resource I am interested in is the forums, so I do have alternatives, but until I am kicked off in Feb I will continue to contribute and comment here.

Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Nikongram Registered since 22nd Jan 2009Fri 23-Jan-09 06:47 PM
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#76. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 68


US
          

Another valid point and important point of view. It would be sad to lose the diversity of contributors to these forums.

Joy

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Little Ourkie Registered since 03rd Oct 2004Sat 24-Jan-09 06:38 AM
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#77. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 76


Georgetown, US
          

Got told today that they gonna kick my ass off the site 'cause I don't pay....oh well

last one leavin...please turn out the lights


Its been real,

Little Ourkie and the Waller Creek Seals.

Mark


....I got me a Nikon camera, I love to take them photographs, so Momma don't take my Kodachrome away.....
Paul Simon "Kodachrome"

  

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edac Registered since 18th Jan 2007Sat 24-Jan-09 09:46 AM
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#78. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 77


US
          

"Got told today that they gonna kick my ass off the site 'cause I don't pay...."

Such class you have.


Thanks,
Mark


It's Good to be Gold!
Proudly Supporting Nikonians

---------------------------------
Not all those who wander are lost.

  

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Dan__ Registered since 26th Aug 2007Sun 25-Jan-09 02:21 AM
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#79. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 78


US
          

Actually, what I find most sad about this whole affair is how polarizing this entire issue is, and the ensuing degradation in the quality and tone of people's posts on both sides of the aisle. I have never seen such numbers of Nikonians behave as I have seen in the last few weeks, but I guess that's what happens to people when push comes to shove.

Well, in a couple of weeks that will likely go away, and there won't be so much "noise" as some have said. Hopefully, what's left is not the sound of crickets.

    -Dan

      

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Paul_Fisher Gold Member Awarded for his multiple article contributions Charter MemberSun 25-Jan-09 02:28 AM
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#80. "RE: 74% of posters non-members."
In response to Reply # 0


Perth, AU
          

Ladies and gentlemen, this thread is going in circles, and there have been some non-Nikonian statements and personal disparagement. I think it's best to leave it at that and lock the thread now.

Paul Fisher
Nikonian in Perth, Western Australia
My home page

  

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