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Subject: "d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness" Previous topic | Next topic
tuimea Registered since 31st Jan 2004Wed 04-Feb-04 02:58 AM
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"d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness"


Berthoud, US
          

just some observations, and a question that i understand we wont have a definite answer on till we get a production model.. so please no "hold ur horses, we dont have one yet" posts just some opinions and and pure guess-tulations(like that?)




"The D70's advanced System LSI processor is programmed for next generation performance to produce the finest in vivid colors and clarity, while maximizing the speed of file compression, memory buffer handling, simultaneous recording of JPEG and NEF (Nikon Electronic Format) files, and near-instant LCD image display."

- Nikon Euro press release

&

"The D70 incorporates a next-generation 6.1-effective megapixel DX Format CCD image sensor that produces 3,008 x 2,000-pixel images, and is optimized to deliver a wide dynamic range and superbly sharp details."
- Nikon US press release

any chance this may be telling us that the softness of images right out of box that the d100 has, is not a part of the d70, and that the pictures will be sharpened more as in the s2?



also noticed...

"Built from ground up as a digital SLR, the Nikon D70 offers tremendous value to consumers by incorporating many advanced features and new innovations that make photography with the D70 faster, easier and better."
- Nikon US pr

wasnt that OlyE1's claim to fame?

i touch your finger
know your darkness
your passion takes its toll

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness
bobj Silver Member
04th Feb 2004
1
Reply message RE: d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness
tuimea
05th Feb 2004
2
Reply message RE: d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness
RGK
05th Feb 2004
3
     Reply message RE: d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness
vchong
05th Feb 2004
4
     Reply message RE: d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness
bobj Silver Member
05th Feb 2004
5
          Reply message RE: d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness
BRiggleman
06th Feb 2004
6
               Reply message RE: d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness
BJNicholls Gold Member
06th Feb 2004
7

bobj Silver Member Awarded for his multiple written contributions the the community Resources Charter MemberWed 04-Feb-04 08:05 PM
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#1. "RE: d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness"
In response to Reply # 0


Sammamish, US
          

This really is a meaningless question I'm afraid. The D100 does not really have a "softness" problem unless you restrict yourself to the default camera settings and expect to do no post processing work. The default though can be changed to more or less sharpening. If you want to use a D100 as a digital point-and-shoot you can certainly do so and get razor sharp images straight from the camera. While this deprives you of the control possible by sharpening in your post processing, this seems to be what some people want and thereby this creates the myth that the D100 has a sharpness problem.

If you take a D100 and a Canon 10D fresh from the box without changing any setings whatsoever, the 10D will produce sharper images, but this is solely because Nikon and Canon have chosen different defaults, both of which can be changed if you so choose. Neither result in any way is indicative of the camera's true potential. The same is true with the S2. Fuji chose a sharper setting as their default. It is not indicative in any way of any superiority or inferiority of either camera, only that their manufacturers have chosen different default settings.

The same is certainly true with the D70. *Regardless* of what default setting the camera ships with, *you can change it* to suit your needs.

Bob Johnson
Earthbound Light
Nature Photography from the Pacific Northwest and beyond
http://www.earthboundlight.com

Bob Johnson - Earthbound Light - Nikonians Gallery
Nature Photography from the Pacific Northwest and beyond
Lots more new images!! - Weekly Phototips and Articles - RSS Feed

  

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tuimea Registered since 31st Jan 2004Thu 05-Feb-04 01:40 AM
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#2. "RE: d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness"
In response to Reply # 1


Berthoud, US
          

oh
sorry
i was just going off of the 40 thousand posts on 40 different sites ive been browsing...

*shrug*

i touch your finger
know your darkness
your passion takes its toll

  

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RGK Registered since 16th Mar 2002Thu 05-Feb-04 02:36 AM
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#3. "RE: d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness"
In response to Reply # 1


Pine Beach, US
          

Or in 'film' language, you have the option of taking a photo 'in focus' or 'out of focus'. I personally think the manufacturer's settings should be as sharp as techincally possible, let the customer decide if they want soft or not. I wouldn't call it a myth, its either sharp or it isn't. Just my humble opinion.

Ralph

  

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vchong Basic MemberThu 05-Feb-04 04:48 AM
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#4. "RE: d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness"
In response to Reply # 3


Victoria, CA
          

I can't say with 100% certainty, but I'm going to guess that the images produced raw from the sensor are as sharp as technically possible given the hardware. I don't think that the images from the CCD are rendered soft purposely.

To get sharp pictures then, some onboard sharpening is done by the electronics. As with any sharpening process, some visual artefacts are introduced, so perhaps manufacturers feel that instead of oversharpening, they should rather present the somewhat soft images to the user for later manipulation?

http://www.finearts.uvic.ca/~vchong/images/vchong.gif

  

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bobj Silver Member Awarded for his multiple written contributions the the community Resources Charter MemberThu 05-Feb-04 07:16 PM
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#5. "RE: d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness"
In response to Reply # 3


Sammamish, US
          

The raw data is identically sharp in both cases. The only difference is when and how much unsharp mask is applied to the images before they are compared. All this does is exagerate contrast along edges which actually degrades the raw data. To do so should be (and is) a choice. All we are arguing here about is the *default* choices the vendors have made, not whether or not *you* can change any given camera to match any other.

Bob Johnson
Earthbound Light
Nature Photography from the Pacific Northwest and beyond
http://www.earthboundlight.com

Bob Johnson - Earthbound Light - Nikonians Gallery
Nature Photography from the Pacific Northwest and beyond
Lots more new images!! - Weekly Phototips and Articles - RSS Feed

  

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BRiggleman Registered since 10th Nov 2002Fri 06-Feb-04 11:27 PM
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#6. "RE: d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness"
In response to Reply # 5


Charles Town, US
          

Well, just need to throw in my two cents worth. The softness from all digital cameras is from the anti-alias filtering system employed. This filter is what introduces the softness of the picture, then its the electronics of the camera that attempt to clean this up. Some of the filters are stronger than others, some do not use any. The foveon sensor I believe does not need one. The less the filter is used the sharper the image will be.

Am I anywhere near a decent answer on this?

Brad

I always want the next model up!

  

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BJNicholls Gold Member Awarded for his contributions to the community and the Resources Charter MemberFri 06-Feb-04 11:48 PM
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#7. "RE: d70 vs d100/s2 - out of box sharpness"
In response to Reply # 6


Salt Lake City, US
          

The AA filter does play a major role. The Kodak 14n doesn't have one, I'm not sure about the Sigma. Not having one results moire patterns in some images and other problems. However, even "naked" sensors call for some sharpening.

The gripe about "soft" images from the D100 is based on the default sharpening settings available for jpeg shooters who are used to the highly sharpened, high contrast, and high saturation images from point and shoot cameras. I have no doubt the D70 settings will be a lot more consumer and less professional in their bias. Experts who aren't under time constraints will sharpen an image for the image's actual use in post processing.

BJ

Zenfolio gallery

  

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Forums Lobby GET TO KNOW YOUR CAMERA & MASTER IT Nikon D90/D80/D70 (Public) topic #218919 Previous topic | Next topic


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