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Forums Lobby GENERAL FORUMS I Want to Sell topic #31694
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mbowker64 Silver Member Charter MemberThu 20-Sep-07 10:04 PM
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"Rant"


Lansing, US
          

I'm not going to direct this at anybody by name, but they will know who they are. When you post in the "I want to buy" forum that you are looking for something and someone responds, have some common decency to reply back. If you don't like the price, or have already found the item, let them know. That's the right thing to do.

When some posts in the "I want to sell" forum and you are interested in the item and then make an offer, stick to your word and follow through with the transaction. If you have any doubt, don't make an offer. That too, is the right thing to do.

This has happened to me at least seven times in the past two weeks in these two forums. I have three lenses I'm trying to sell, and thought I had sold, at least twice, only to have the buyers back out after making an offer.

Alright, I'm done.

Mike

"Faith is the daring of the soul to go farther than it can see"
-William Newton Clark

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Rant
ldo Silver Member
20th Sep 2007
1
Reply message RE: Rant
vm_rivera
20th Sep 2007
2
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Drbee Silver Member
20th Sep 2007
3
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idofotos
20th Sep 2007
4
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Abouna
21st Sep 2007
5
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jbear
21st Sep 2007
6
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pete777
21st Sep 2007
7
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mbarrett635 Gold Member
21st Sep 2007
8
Reply message RE: Rant
camerapapi Silver Member
21st Sep 2007
11
Reply message RE: Rant
Tony_Jeffree
21st Sep 2007
9
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PLphotography
22nd Sep 2007
13
     Reply message RE: Rant
Tony_Jeffree
22nd Sep 2007
14
     Reply message RE: Rant
briantilley Moderator
22nd Sep 2007
15
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Tony_Jeffree
22nd Sep 2007
16
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James23p Moderator
22nd Sep 2007
17
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PLphotography
24th Sep 2007
21
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briantilley Moderator
24th Sep 2007
22
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Tony_Jeffree
24th Sep 2007
23
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James23p Moderator
24th Sep 2007
24
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briantilley Moderator
24th Sep 2007
25
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abikeride
21st Sep 2007
10
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mbowker64 Silver Member
21st Sep 2007
12
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reuben Moderator
22nd Sep 2007
18
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GJBenn85
22nd Sep 2007
19
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Wolfie1
24th Sep 2007
20

ldo Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Oct 2002Thu 20-Sep-07 10:37 PM
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#1. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 0


Orange County, US
          

Frustrating isn't it?

What I have learned is not to finalize any transaction or consider it sold until the money is received or there's proof that it's on its way. I don't hold the item for anyone either, first with the money gets the item.

Sadly, I don't see how this trend is going to end. It's just life over the internet.


_______________
Loc

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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vm_rivera Registered since 24th Aug 2007Thu 20-Sep-07 11:03 PM
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#2. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 0


Jersey City, US
          

I hate to do this, but I'll take my turn at kicking the dead horse also. I too agree with your rant. I have responded to 3 or 4 post in the "I Want To Buy" forum only to have my replies go unanswered. It makes me wonder just how valid they might have been in the first place.

Thank you, I feel better!!

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Drbee Silver Member Nikonian since 05th Aug 2004Thu 20-Sep-07 11:31 PM
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#3. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

I haven't been subjected to quite this much vacillation by buyer/seller, but I have spent a lot of effort to make sure the payments are prompt - only to have the shipment delayed by "stuff", to have others delay payments to me and ask to hold items - all of which I've agreed to and worked out.

One thing I have noticed is the speed of messaging through the Nikonians interface can be problematic. I do much better when getting to "open email" as quickly as possible.

I really like it when a buyer responds to the original "for sale" listing publicly with "email sent" or something similar. That way there is a public record of the effort.

I have in the past asked them to post such a message as a sign of good faith, that way I can also respond with a "still for sale" if nothing goes through, that also keeps the transaction on the surface.

Life happens and communications get interrupted often for legitimate reasons. I've often though that my desire to be fair and at times accommodate people who claim special circumstances is too much in character for me and likely not appropriate for Internet business. If it's strictly first-come-first served then my life would be a lot easier . However, that works best in a world with no communication delays. I also don't like the fact that there is no record of communications sent through Nikonians email and private-message. It's OK for hiding email addresses, but a PITA for reconstructing anything more that a one-liner plus the initiatior has not timestamp to use if any disputes arise.

Best Regards,

Roger
It is still ISO, aperture and shutter speed, right?

Roger
It's still, ISO, aperture and shutter-speed, right?

  

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idofotos Basic MemberThu 20-Sep-07 11:39 PM
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#4. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 0


grand Island, US
          

>I'm not going to direct this at anybody by name, but they
>will know who they are. When you post in the "I want to buy"
>forum that you are looking for something and someone
>responds, have some common decency to reply back. If you
>don't like the price, or have already found the item, let
>them know. That's the right thing to do.
>
>When some posts in the "I want to sell" forum and you are
>interested in the item and then make an offer, stick to your
>word and follow through with the transaction. If you have
>any doubt, don't make an offer. That too, is the right thing
>to do.
>
>This has happened to me at least seven times in the past two
>weeks in these two forums. I have three lenses I'm trying to
>sell, and thought I had sold, at least twice, only to have
>the buyers back out after making an offer.
>
>Alright, I'm done.

I agree
Ive made several offers with no reply, Maybe we should start a Want to steal thread so they could at least be honest in what they want to do

  

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Abouna Registered since 30th Jul 2004Fri 21-Sep-07 12:17 AM
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#5. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

Well I guess I should chime in.

I agree, this is in really bad form. If you respond to a FS or WTB thread, you should follow through until it finished. I just sold a 55-200 in the FS forum. The first fellow to ask about the lens seemed quite interested and had even inquired about expedited shipping as he was in a hurry. All of this via PM. The last PM was asking for my Paypal address. I never heard back. In the mean time I had another interested party waiting for me to get back to him. To be courteous I waited 2 days before giving up. I wasn't happy though, I figured i was going to lose both parties. In the end it all worked out fine because I ended up selling it to camerapapi who was prompt, courteous and very responsive.

To wrap up:

- The PM system at Nikonians stinks, unless I'm missing it, there is no outbox (sent items). I sure would like to see my responses to PMs.

- Though I hat sitting on my hands during a sale, the vagaries of forum notifications and email snafus dictate that you give the other party the benefit of the doubt (which I'm doing with the first party in my lens sale, maybe he simply didn't get my last 2 responses)

- It's a good practice to post your interest in both the thread and via PM /email. The thread post however is paramount IMO, it semi-protects both parties and lets everyone else what's going on with the item.




-----
FJ
www.benchcrafted.com

  

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jbear Registered since 22nd May 2003Fri 21-Sep-07 01:18 AM
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#6. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 5


Marietta, US
          

I agree with all of the above...including "that's life on the Internet." All you can do is vent and go on and try to set a good example. I will continue to do the right thing no matter what others do. My pet peeves...asking questions that are clearly answered by reading the ad, and asking for pictures and then never responding to say they were recieved or whether or not they are interested.
If you think about it though, we live in an increasingly thoughtless and self-absorbed society...this site can't help reflecting that to some extent.

  

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pete777 Registered since 11th Apr 2004Fri 21-Sep-07 02:03 AM
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#7. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 5


Orlando, US
          



True. However, a comment/question in the thread shouldn't be construed as a commitment to buy either. I think that should be handled via PM/email. Maybe with a cc posted to the thread.

For example, I know the sale that Mike was having and I was interested in the 80-200mm f/2.8 he was selling. He said to make an offer. Since I was not familiar with the Tokina line of lenses I wasn't sure how much this one would be worth. I noticed that they had a line of AT-X Pro lenses. So I posted to the thread asking him if this lens was one of those because if I decided to buy it, I wanted to make him a fair offer. Well, I discovered that the AT-X Pro was Tokina's entire line (Not like Sigma, which has a low end and high end - APO - line of lenses).

I decided not to make an offer, only because after double checking my budget, I had to fight off the NAS.

I learned that a man (or woman) is only as good as their word and their word means something. So personally, I always try to be accountable. However, if there is an item for sale, I might have a question about it. But that question shouldn't be interpreted as an interest to buy either.

I've sold a bunch of camera bags recently and Mike, I know your frustration because I experienced a lot of what you have.

Pete - Floridian Nikonian
D200/MB-D200 | 18-200 VR | 70-300 VR

My Gallery

  

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mbarrett635 Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Jun 2007Fri 21-Sep-07 05:49 AM
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#8. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 7


Harrisburg, US
          

I agree with what's been said, but I'll also vent my spleen a little the other way. I've made sincere offers on two different items (one here, one on FM), and in both instances have waited for an extended period before getting a reply -- and then, in short order, getting a "sorry, I sold it to someone else" email. Well, I'm sorry I wasn't sitting at my computer 24/7 waiting for your reply. In one instance, the seller cancelled on me less than 30 minutes after the time he sent an email with payment instructions!

So, I think it cuts both ways. If someone makes an offer, have the courtesy to respond promptly -- either way -- but if you agree to sell, then allow for a reasonable interval before you cancel. If you are so hot to sell immediately, why wait three days to get back to a buyer?

Rant mode off. Thanks for listening.

Mike B.

D4, D3s, D700 w/MB-D10,
14-24 f/2.8, 16 f/2.8 fisheye, 24-70 f/2.8, 28-200 f/3.5-5.6, 50 f/1.4D, 70-200VR, 85 f/1.4D, 105mm f/2.8 VR Micro, 200 f/2 VR, 300 f/2.8 VR, 400 f/2.8 VRII

  

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camerapapi Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Apr 2002Fri 21-Sep-07 01:12 PM
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#11. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 5


Miami, US
          

FJ: In the first place, I agree with previous statements and I certainly hope the FS and WTB forums will not become another place where to play. We are all adults and we do know our responsibilities.
When I posted in your thread about the 55-200 VR Nikkor I did because I needed the lens for my traveling. You did the right thing by advising me that there was someone before me interested in your item. I only asked you to give me a follow up if the transaction would not follow through.
You did and I finished the transaction. We both have to assume that if the gentleman before me had sent you payment I would have never bought the lens, which is the way it was supposed to be in the first place.
I see now often reposts of items that did not sell because the interested party failed to complete the transaction. Seems as if Ebay manners are contagious!
Anyway I want to thank you for selling me the lens. You also behaved like a gentleman and I will not hesitate to recommend you if the occasion arises.
Let's keep these forum healthy and running.
Best regards.

William Rodriguez
Miami, Florida.

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Fri 21-Sep-07 06:18 AM
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#9. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 0


Manchester, GB
          

The other thing that irritates the h*** out of me, as I am not in the USA, is the "I want to sell" ads where the seller is USA based and doesn't make it clear (a) whether they are prepared to ship overseas, (b) when inclusive postage offers are made, whether they apply only to the USA or are global, and (c) what the overseas postage might be. This doesn't seem to happen at all in my experience when the seller is not US-based, so I conclude that it must be some deeply ingrained US-centricity at work.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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PLphotography Basic MemberSat 22-Sep-07 05:09 PM
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#13. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 9


US
          

>The other thing that irritates the h*** out of me, as I am
>not in the USA, is the "I want to sell" ads where the seller
>is USA based and doesn't make it clear (a) whether they are
>prepared to ship overseas, (b) when inclusive postage offers
>are made, whether they apply only to the USA or are global,
>and (c) what the overseas postage might be. This doesn't
>seem to happen at all in my experience when the seller is
>not US-based, so I conclude that it must be some deeply
>ingrained US-centricity at work.
>
>Regards,
>Tony


Oh give me a break already! A majority of the members on this site are US based, sorry for not thinking of EVERYONE else.

So if the site was mainly Italy based the same wouldn't be true?

__________________________________________

www.PhilsDarkroom.com

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Sat 22-Sep-07 05:29 PM
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#14. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 13


Manchester, GB
          

I rest my case

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 22-Sep-07 07:00 PM
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#15. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 13


Paignton, GB
          

Your reply seems to reinforce Tony's point!

As I recall, although US members are the single largest group, there are still more Nikonian members outside the USA than inside.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Sat 22-Sep-07 08:00 PM
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#16. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 15


Manchester, GB
          

>Your reply seems to reinforce Tony's point!

That was my impression too

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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James23p Moderator Awarded for his wide variety of skills, a true generalist both in film and digital photography Nikonian since 25th Apr 2004Sat 22-Sep-07 08:24 PM
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#17. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 16


Memphis, US
          

Tony I wouldn't gloat it was your post that was inflammatory first. The fact that you decided to attack one nation I wonder if you were not trying to bait someone for a improper response. I always try to never paint a country and its people with such a broad brush. You could have and should have just said if you are selling an item that says shipping included please say if you are willing to ship international.

Plus Phils response was improper too as we should never assume that just because the largest membership is based in the US that we do not need to be courteous to our neighbor's overseas.

Jim

Share, Learn and Inspire
www.nikonians.org




I will use film until the last roll and last lab are gone. Go Navy

  

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PLphotography Basic MemberMon 24-Sep-07 03:46 AM
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#21. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 15


US
          

>Your reply seems to reinforce Tony's point!
>
>As I recall, although US members are the single largest
>group, there are still more Nikonian members outside the USA
>than inside.

That makes no sense. Go hate America on some other forum.

__________________________________________

www.PhilsDarkroom.com

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Mon 24-Sep-07 07:06 AM
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#22. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 21


Paignton, GB
          

Hey Phil - please check out the post from Steve (reuben) the Moderator below. There is no need to get personal about this.

I'm very sorry if I contributed to the feeling that people hate America - that is certainly not the case with me and I'm sure the same applies to Tony. I was merely suggesting that our US membership is not actually more than half the total, even though there are a whole lot of you

However (and I'd like this to be taken as a simple comment rather than a criticism or attack), experience over the last few years shows that we do get occasional posts where for example a currency is not stated. At a global community like Nikonians, EVERYONE should realise that their posts are being read by members from all over the world, and should take extra care to include all the necessary information.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Mon 24-Sep-07 07:26 AM
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#23. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 22


Manchester, GB
          

Brian -

Well put. That was exactly the point of my post.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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James23p Moderator Awarded for his wide variety of skills, a true generalist both in film and digital photography Nikonian since 25th Apr 2004Mon 24-Sep-07 07:49 AM
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#24. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 23


Memphis, US
          

Tony, Brian made the point without getting national and I found several posts in the archives where the poster was from the EU and Asia that did not specify postage or shipping costs and if it was an all inclusive price or will they ship internationally.

This is not a purely US or North American problem I feel this has had enough play and should end here, if you see an item and you feel there is not enough information do the polite thing and ask. Your question will not only benefit you but other Nikonians.

Jim

Share, Learn and Inspire
www.nikonians.org




I will use film until the last roll and last lab are gone. Go Navy

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Mon 24-Sep-07 08:05 AM
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#25. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 24


Paignton, GB
          

...>this has had enough play and should end here

Agreed...

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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abikeride Registered since 14th Jan 2006Fri 21-Sep-07 10:56 AM
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#10. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 0


Staten Island, US
          

I totally agree.........What irritates me is when I respond by adding to the thread and send an email that I want to buy something only to get no response from the seller and then finding out the item was sold to someone who responded AFTER me...just ticks me off.

I really believe we should have a feedback thread that is sorted by member name so others can really see what the person is made of...Providing feedback on the WTS thread just makes it too difficult to find the person and what others think. I think the ebay method of feedback is a relatively good one and since there is nothing better...than this format be used.


JayG

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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mbowker64 Silver Member Charter MemberFri 21-Sep-07 09:13 PM
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#12. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 10


Lansing, US
          

Well, Tony, you got me on that one. I did not post that I would only ship to the CONUS as I have in previous posts and I apologize.

I want to make clear that this rant was not directed at those who merely made inquiries. I had several, what I thought were, solid offers. A dollar amount was stated and some preliminary shipping info provided. I responded that I accepted the offer, gave them my Paypal info and then got responses that they decided not to go through with the transaction for whatever reason. That's the part that ticks me off.

I have to give props to Pete, he did make an offer that was less than what I was willing to accept and I told him so and made a counter offer, so to speak. That was more than he wanted to pay and he said so. Neither one of were left wondering about the others position. Communications were clear and prompt. Unfortunately we weren't able to an agreement and I still have the lenses for sale, but that's the way it goes sometimes and Pete has my respect because of the way he corresponded with me.

Mike

"Faith is the daring of the soul to go farther than it can see"
-William Newton Clark

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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reuben Moderator Landscape and Sports in depth expertise Awarded for his article contributions to the Resources Nikonian since 21st Jan 2004Sat 22-Sep-07 10:26 PM
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#18. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 0


Mayo, US
          

This thread started off fine, but it's now getting a bit personal and nationalistic. No matter how you've been treated, please try to treat others nicely. We are all slighted from time to time, intentional or not, real or not.

Thank you.

Simplify

Cormorants

  

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GJBenn85 Registered since 09th Sep 2007Sat 22-Sep-07 11:57 PM
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#19. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 18


Hilton Head Island, US
          

A couple of weeks ago, I had someone wanting to buy a lens from me on FM. He was supposed to get payment sent the next day and after several attempts over the course of 10 days at contacting him, I had to relist the lens on eBay. Irritates me that people do not have the courtesy to let others know they are backing out of the deal.

I was also recently trying to buy a D200 from a FM member that was only using it as a backup camera. It was a good price but I still tried to negotiate a little, after all, he never said he was firm on the price. Well, I kept trying to get him to respond to my offer over the course of about four days only to find out he sold to someone that contacted him AFTER I did.

Common courtesy is a thing of the past. If I say I will send payment, I send payment as soon as possible. If I commit to selling an item, I check my e-mail and PMs frequently to reply to all questions and offers and also am fair in the sale being on a first come, first serve basis. Why is it others have such a difficult time returning the courtesy?

  

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Wolfie1 Registered since 13th May 2007Mon 24-Sep-07 12:11 AM
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#20. "RE: Rant"
In response to Reply # 18


Edmonton, CA
          

In response to your question at the end of your post, the reason is plain selfishness. They're playing you (or me, all of us) in case they can get a better deal from a subsequent offer, but still want to keep you hanging in case that 'better' offer falls through. This being just a forum and not a structured auction site such as ebay, I'm not sure if there are ways it could be improved upon. Basically we're at the mercy of the seller and the seller's conscience (or lack thereof).

Walt

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