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Forums Lobby GENERAL FORUMS I Want to Sell topic #22745
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Subject: "safety for sellers and buyers" Previous topic | Next topic
Ben_hur Registered since 29th Oct 2005Tue 20-Feb-07 11:30 AM
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"safety for sellers and buyers"


Birkirkara, MT
          

This is a suggestion to the moderators....

I have just read a post about a buyer who got scammed. I would like to suggest that for members to post in the "i want to sell/buy" forums they should satisfy some minimum criteria

1. be paid up members (which is already in place)
2. post a minimum of 20 posts (for eg.) over the last 6 months prior to the post. this will ensure that only actively contributing members can post, thus avoiding the possibility of someone paying the membership just to set up a scan.
3. A field be added to the user profile where the seller can include the number of successful transactions done on nikonians with a reference(html link or similar) to the actual post... this will be a sort of simple "feedback" system where an authentic seller can develop a curriculum vitae of good transactions.

this should solve the problem. I have been a member for some two odd years now, and I feel that the proportion of "scams" is increasing (of course due to the increasing popularity of Nikonians, which is bound to attract troublemakers)

Just trying to help
The Image Barrel

The Image Barrel
My Nikonians Gallery

  

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Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: safety for sellers and buyers
sabre Silver Member
20th Feb 2007
1
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lscarper
20th Feb 2007
2
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kennyg92 Silver Member
20th Feb 2007
8
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nhblacksmith
20th Feb 2007
3
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sabre Silver Member
20th Feb 2007
4
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abednigo
20th Feb 2007
5
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jbear
20th Feb 2007
6
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lscarper
20th Feb 2007
7
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Nikon32250 Silver Member
21st Feb 2007
9
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NikonBill
25th Mar 2007
26
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fielden photo
26th Mar 2007
29
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NikonBill
26th Mar 2007
30
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billg71 Gold Member
21st Feb 2007
10
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Ben_hur
21st Feb 2007
11
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joey
21st Feb 2007
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lscarper
25th Feb 2007
15
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randwool
22nd Feb 2007
13
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kbradbury
22nd Feb 2007
14
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RockyIII Gold Member
25th Feb 2007
16
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village idiot
25th Feb 2007
17
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silverbowff
25th Feb 2007
18
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lscarper
26th Feb 2007
19
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24th Mar 2007
25
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sentinel4570 Platinum Member
26th Feb 2007
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Porrick
26th Feb 2007
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26th Feb 2007
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27th Feb 2007
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24th Mar 2007
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25th Mar 2007
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sabre Silver Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Tue 20-Feb-07 12:40 PM
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#1. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 0


Bedfordshire, GB
          

I think Reuben's suggestion is an excellent one. Not sure how much extra work this would make for the Nikonians team, but it would be good if something along these lines could be put into place.

Scammers will always eventually find a way around most preventative obstacles (because they are such sad deviants), but it should not stop us at least doing something to try to make Nikonians a safer place for buyers/sellers. Even if it only removes 50% of the scammers then it will have been successful.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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lscarper Registered since 04th Dec 2002Tue 20-Feb-07 01:28 PM
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#2. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 0


Charleston, US
          

There is another way I believe.

Nikonians could act as an escrow service with a seperate paypal account and charge $10 per tranaction. When payment is received, the seller is notified to ship. When the item is received, the seller is paid. As much stuff that gets sold here, it might be a nice little revenue stream to support the site and I know I'd pay $10 for peace of mind when buying large items.

Cheers,
LSC

"too much beauty....too little time"

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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kennyg92 Silver Member Nikonian since 16th May 2006Tue 20-Feb-07 09:04 PM
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#8. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 2


Seattle, US
          

>There is another way I believe.
>
>Nikonians could act as an escrow service with a seperate
>paypal account and charge $10 per tranaction.

Why not just use an escrow service?
Why involve another middleman (Nikonians) who are not even in the business of buying/selling. This is a forum remember, not a marketplace.

Services such as escrow.com (owned by PayPal incidentally) charge virtually the same rates to the Seller as if you use PayPal.

-Ken

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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nhblacksmith Registered since 18th May 2004Tue 20-Feb-07 01:31 PM
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#3. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 0


Lancaster, US
          

Over the past three years I have bought nearly $10,000 worth of Nikon equipment, here, on other private forums, and at the big auction house where I have 100% feedback as a buyer. I'm sure that anyone who has sold to me, here or elsewhere, would give me a reference. But...

I have to disagree with the proposal above. I only got scammed one time and it was from a forum of very advanced amateurs and professionals, not Nikonians but similar. The person I bought from had a stellar reputation as a seller, had numerous posts to that and other forums, his own web page advertising his photography business with an impressive clientèle. He would have met all the criteria stated on this thread and then some. I bought a D1X that he had stolen from a client. I returned it to the police and I'm out $1100. The detective in charge of the case told me this guy had been a solid citizen until he got short of money. There are no guarantees!!!

People who have a number of posts are not necessarily more honest, they just have more time on their hands. No matter how much screening you do, it will not prevent fraud, here or elsewhere and the more requirements that are set forth, the more difficult it becomes to buy and sell. Not everyone has the time to spend typing feedback, and even if they did, it would only mean they were honest for that particular sale.

This is, and will always be, the internet and it is not the safest place to buy. The best defense against fraud remains to be careful. If someone is less than honest here on Nikonians, have the Moderators close his account to prevent further dishonesty. 99% or more of the sales here are fine so why place further burdens that will likely not prevent the tiny portion of bad sales that occur?

Everyone is free to disagree.


Neal

Neal
F5, F4, F100, N90s, FM2n, Nikonos IV-A, D1X, D1H, CP5400

  

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sabre Silver Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Tue 20-Feb-07 02:06 PM
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#4. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 3


Bedfordshire, GB
          

Hi Neal,

You make some very interesting and valid points. I do not agree with all that you say though.

As I stated above "Scammers will always eventually find a way around most preventative obstacles...but it should not stop us at least doing something to try to make Nikonians a safer place for buyers/sellers". To just do nothing would be akin to saying people are going to die anyway so why bother with a hospital. OK, I accept that my example is a tad extreme, but I am trying to illustrate the flaw in the logic.

I also commented "Even if it only removes 50% of the scammers then it will have been successful". You are bang right that such suggested steps would not prevent fraud. However, they could reduce fraud.

Most internet scammers are in it for the long term, but they normally move quickly from scam to scam, and from site to site. They don't want to risk getting caught, so making them fulfil a time requirement before trading would leave all but the most hardened scammers feeling exposed and likely to look elsewhere to ply their evil trade.

The problem with having the Moderators close members' accounts goes something like in this example:
A scammer advertises 3 lenses in 'excellent' condition; you and two other members pay him and think you will have them delivered; you do not receive your lens, nor do the other two members; you are not happy so you complain to the moderators; one of the other ripped off members is not the complaining type so she puts it down to experience; the other ripped-off member is paid out on credit card insurance anyway and therefore he cannot be bothered to complain. The moderator now has to make a subjective judgement on whether the advertiser was really a scammer.

Since the moderator only has one complaint to go on, it is your word against the scammer's when he pleads to the moderators that he did send the lens and that you are not telling the truth about receiving it.

My example is over-simplified for the point of illustration, but what I am saying is that it is not fair to turn the moderators into judge and jury for non-obvious cases. Surely, it is much better to have a feedback system (yes, like on eBay) where people can make their own judgements? Using that example, I will never buy off anybody on eBay unless they have at least a feedback of 20 (mainly from buyers, not just as a seller) and also have no more than one apparently explainable negative comment against them per 100 transactions; i.e., they score 99% or more.

So, I still have to agree with the originator that some kind of simple rule/feedback system would be helpful.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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abednigo Registered since 22nd May 2006Tue 20-Feb-07 02:41 PM
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#5. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 4


US
          

Steve, I wholeheartedly agree with the fact that something must be done instead of nothing. To just sit here and assume "it's the internet, oh, well," is to lie down and ask to be scammed. As a community, I find it is a personal responsibility to help other members within your community.

Nikonians as an escrow service sounds plausible. I think the $10 should be added to the membership fee and not the transaction. Heck, I'd even vote to add $20 for membership to Nikonians, with the option of the prospective member wishing to pay only if he plans on selling.

For me, my experiences have been positive here at Nikonians. But I must add that I have been scammed on few occasions elsewhere, and in terms of security, there isn’t exactly a significant difference between the buying/selling forum here and anywhere else. I think, for the most part, Nikonians has drawn an ethical and upstanding crowd. But Nikonians is growing and with it is growing the proportion of bad apples. My vote is for some kind of action.



-Steven

Itself, by itself, solely, ONE everlastingly, and single. -Plato

  

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jbear Registered since 22nd May 2003Tue 20-Feb-07 04:46 PM
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#6. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 5


Marietta, US
          

I'm in the same category as Neal...and I agree with his post. I wouldn't be willing to pay more than I do, and asking the site to set-up, and be responsible for an escrow service seems beyond the scope. If I were a moderator or site rep. I wouldn't touch that proposition. There's already a membership requirement, and as has been mentioned many times, the I-net has its risks...but you can save a lot of money if you're careful. With exception of course, the safest way to shop is to buy new or used gear in a brick and mortar store. Internet retailers are next in line...the least safe means is to buy person-to-person, used, sight-unseen on the I-net. I've had great experiences buying and selling in this way, but I provide my references and ask a lot of questions. I also accept that the possibility exists for...
Anyway, that's my opinion on the matter after five years of experience dealing with this stuff. I certainly respect the other opinions expressed in this thread, but I don't necessarily agree.

  

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lscarper Registered since 04th Dec 2002Tue 20-Feb-07 05:14 PM
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#7. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 5


Charleston, US
          

I would have to disagree on setting up the suggested additional cost ($10) as a membership fee rather than a transaction fee. Firstly, the members using the service should underwrite it's cost. Not all members buy and sell here and therefore would incur additional cost without any additional benefits under a membership based fee. Secondly, if I as a buyer wish to protect the funds I'm about to send to someone I've never met for a product I've never seen, I should be willing to pay the additional cost of an escrow service. Thirdly, I can't imagine the wonderful people who make these fori available to us, and moderate them, wanting to take on any additional responsibilities unless it could provide substantial benefit to the Nikonians entity. An average of 10 transactions a day could put some always needed funds in hopper for future site operations and improvements.

Then again, those same wonderful people may think we're all totally bonkers for suggesting this.

Cheers,
LSC

"too much beauty....too little time"

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Nikon32250 Silver Member Nikonian since 16th Mar 2004Wed 21-Feb-07 02:39 AM
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#9. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 7


St. Augustine, US
          

Perhaps a compromise could be a message that always stays at the top of the I Want to Sell Forum (There's a name for it, but it slips my mind. Anchored???) which would spell out many of the suggestions that have been made in this and other threads about what one should do to protect oneself.

I really like the idea of an escrow service (doen't matter if it's Nikonians or some other service so long as THEY are reputable). I have bought a few items here for close to $1,000 or more. They all went 100% well, but there is always that nervousness until the package shows up at your front door. What's even more scary is having to explain a transaction gone bad to your better half!

Graham
From St. Augustine, FL. "I like photographers, you don't ask questions." Ronald Reagan to White House Press Photogs

<http://www.ancientcityphotography.com/>

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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NikonBill Registered since 19th Feb 2007Sun 25-Mar-07 04:22 AM
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#26. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 4


West Sacramento, US
          

I just bought a used D1x from a forum member that had at least 150 posts with several sales. So it seemed safe to buy here versus on Ebay.

I described my experience on a thread in the D1/D2 forum but to sum it up, the seller sent me a "mint" camera that had a crack on the top near the hotshoe. The drop must have knocked the focus screen loose and the battery lock knob was broken off. This seller was highly recommended by other forum members. He has refused to call me to resolve this situtation and has refused to respond to my emails.

I would think that people who have or may think about dealing with Jay Fielden, think twice. I would really like to have some sort of feedback buying/selling experience on members. This way I can at least research past experiences by other members before throwing my money away. Granted it would be an imperfect situation since someone may still be screwed in a transaction, but at least you can get a sense of what the other person is like.

Just my newbie $800 ummmmm...I mean newbie $.02.

Bill

  

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fielden photo Registered since 26th Dec 2005Mon 26-Mar-07 01:17 PM
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#29. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 26


Warren, US
          

Requesting moderator to remove this post. Bill Pu never contacted me about a crack by the viewfinder and I had kept in great contact with him. I'm even sending him an extra battery! The focusing screen came out in shipping. He popped it right back in. I can send you all of our e-mail dealings if you would like.

Please contact me regarding this matter via e-mail,

Jay Fielden

To take photographs means to recognize both the fact itself and the rigorous organization of visually perceived forms that give it meaning. It is putting one's head, one's eye and one's heart on the same axis.

~H. C. Bresson

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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NikonBill Registered since 19th Feb 2007Mon 26-Mar-07 04:34 PM
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#30. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 29


West Sacramento, US
          

I've already contacted the moderator, Rueben with copies of the emails. I have attempted to contact you several times to resolve this and yet you have not responded until this post.

Also, if this was a private sale, why was a computer generated UPS label used with a return address of *deleted*Camera in ******* ********? *edited because of resolution offered by jay and accepted by me.

Again, I would like to give you the benefit of assuming that there was miscommunication on our part. I sent you another email asking for resolution by either 1) I return the camera for a full refund or 2) you pay Nikon for repairs.

Please let me know via email, phone or PM.

Thanks.

Bill Pu

  

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billg71 Gold Member Nikonian since 15th Aug 2006Wed 21-Feb-07 02:39 AM
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#10. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 0


Acworth, US
          

Ben,

I think your proposals are reasonable and would be fairly painless to implement. Good idea! No problem here....

But I definitely oppose any suggestions for Nikonians becoming an escrow/payment service. This would require a substantial investment in both time and resources and, IMHO, would violate the spirit if not the actual legal status of being a non-profit organization. I'm no lawyer and have absolutely no idea of the EU laws regarding not-for-profit status, but IMHO, if we set ourselves up to broker transactions for either a set fee or a percentage, then we're just another company trying to make a buck. Nothing wrong with that, I do it every day, but I'm a subchapter(S) corp. with an avowed purpose of making a profit(hopefully).

IMHO, I think we're all personally responsible for the decisions we make. Any purchase we make in negotiable funds is, to some extent, at our own risk. I feel that it's my responsibility to make sure I have spent my money wisely, whether that means taking the time to research someone's eBay feedback, looking at their member profile or whatever. If I have the least doubt about a transaction I'll bail out. Remember the old saying about "if it's too good to be true...."? But I pay for the protection my credit card issuer offers me and won't hesitate to use it at need.

Maybe I've missed out on some really good deals, but I've not been ripped off either. I've had some nervous moments and had some goods arrive that weren't exactly as advertised, but those were resolved amicably to everyone's satisfaction.

That's not to say I won't get scammed tomorrow. But if I do, I'll either call my credit card company and file a chargeback or I'll write off the money order I bought to just another lesson at the proverbial "School of Hard Knocks".

And when you're buying sight unseen on the good faith of someone you don't personally know, just keep in mind the legal term "caveat emptor". That's "let the buyer beware" in Latin for those of you who didn't have to suffer through it in school.

Bill




Georgia Nature Photographers Association

  

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Ben_hur Registered since 29th Oct 2005Wed 21-Feb-07 06:20 AM
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#11. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 10


Birkirkara, MT
          

Dear All,

Thanks for all the discussion...

We have to keep in mind the following

1. any suggestions made have to practical in terms of workload and resources
2. Nikonians probably does not want to enter into any liability in terms of these transactions. I am no expert, but to me an escrow service implies some sort of legal responsability both to the buyer and to the seller
3. the best rule remains to beware, beware, beware. The best and most reliable seller can unfortunately through the hazards of life, become a hardened crook, so we just have to be careful

Let`s try and keep this place clean. I mean, a forum where I have seen people actually give stuff away for free because they dont need it(i have seen a couple of posts about this), is something to be protected and cherished nowadays....

Reuben



The Image Barrel

The Image Barrel
My Nikonians Gallery

  

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joey Registered since 24th Dec 2003Wed 21-Feb-07 08:11 PM
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#12. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 11


Woodstock, CA
          

I think there are some great suggestions here but I personally feel enough is being done on this site. Nikonians is not Ebay or paypal etc...(people still get ripped off there too) Only paid members being allowed to post in the for sale forum seems to be adequate IMO.

The risks of buying used are never really going to change. I have bought thousands of dollars of used equipment over the past 5 years and not once have I been scammed (although items have been in worse condition than advertised). I am not saying it won't ever happen but I always exercise caution and trust my gut. Common sense says be cautious when buying from someone that has one post and can't provide you with the information you require or some sort of buyer/seller reputation.

Maybe perhaps some sort of referral system could be useful but unfortunately I don't think there are many solutions without making this forum something it was never intended to be.... but I could be wrong

  

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lscarper Registered since 04th Dec 2002Sun 25-Feb-07 02:07 PM
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#15. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 12


Charleston, US
          

I too have bought and sold here and in the past, it's been a great experience. One reason to buy here instead of eBay is the quality of people here, their love and care of their equipment and the reasonableness of pricing. I always felt like people here sold their equipment for a few bucks less because they wanted it to go to other Nikonians with a passion for the image and Nikons. But, one reason to buy elsewhere is the protections available when using a credit card or paypal.

This site has grown tremendously and with that comes good and bad. Not creating mechanisms to deal with the bad is a "sticking your head in the sand approach", IMO. In some places, lawyers could argue negligence by avaoiding the issue - This is NOT my opinion, I just know it is done.

If escrow.com works, then that's a great solution. But implementing something like that here wouldn't be a resource nightmare when there are fewer than probably 10 "sold" transactions a day and many aren't large enough to require an escrow service. Paypal protects up to $200 outside of ebay purchases so a purchase would have to be more than $200 before you would need to think about an escrow service. If Nikonians didn't want to do it or just didn't want the liability, that's understandable.

Refer here if you think all is well in the selling forum.

http://www.nikonians.org/dcforum/DCForumID23/19800.html

Sorry, I just hate to see people get ripped off and believe it's an area that needs more discussion and awareness as this community grows.

Cheers,
LSC

"too much beauty....too little time"

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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randwool Registered since 30th Nov 2006Thu 22-Feb-07 04:43 AM
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#13. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 0


Greensboro, US
          

Post Count---Does Not Equal---a Good Guy.

Randy

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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kbradbury Registered since 19th Nov 2004Thu 22-Feb-07 07:25 AM
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#14. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 0


Ann Arbor, US
          

Potential buyers can see the post count for themselves and make a decision. Potential buyers can also review the actual previous posts from a seller if they want to see if the posts are substantive or made just to run up the post count. Making sure that the seller will accept returns and then paying with a credit card will give a great deal of protection.

-Kevin

-Kevin

  

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RockyIII Gold Member Nikonian since 27th May 2006Sun 25-Feb-07 04:57 PM
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#16. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 0


Raleigh, US
          

A feedback system like that or similiar sounds like a great idea, but it may be more trouble than its worth to the forum moderators here. Plus, I wonder if Nikonians administers such a system if they would assume some unwanted liability.

  

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village idiot Registered since 16th Sep 2006Sun 25-Feb-07 06:48 PM
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#17. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 0


Seattle, US
          

OK, so as you can see from my post count, I would be one of the "usual suspects." I am a silver member, as I think it is my duty to give back to a site which has helped me immeasurably in my quest to get better at photography. I haven't posted much, well, actually at all, because I use the search function to find answers to my questions, and most if not all of my questions have thus far already been answered by someone, somewhere, here on the site. As the "I want to sell" forum is always one of my first stops here at Nikonians, I have actually considered posting here and there to get my post count up, just so when (not if) I am first to come across that "great deal" here, the seller is not put off by my lack of posts. Someone above said that post count doesn't equal a 'good guy', but neither does a lack of posts equal a 'bad guy."

I certainly think that the use of an escrow site makes a lot of sense, as many of the items sold here can have substantial prices, and if I'm going to send four figures to someone I've never met, and probably never will, knowing the funds are being held by a disinterested third party, would help me sleep at night til I had the item in my hot little hands.

That's my .02, YMMV.

Seek not to follow in the masters footprints. Seek what they sought.
Basho

  

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silverbowff Registered since 31st Oct 2005Sun 25-Feb-07 09:04 PM
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#18. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 17


Spokane and Vail, US
          

How many transactions have taken place on this forum in the last year? How many scams have been perpetrated in the same time frame? If it's more than .1 of 1% I would be surprised. If the statistics show that it is an issue on this forum then perhaps some changes to the requirements should be made.

Jim

James Prudente
www.pbase.com/silverbowff
www.silverbowff.com

  

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lscarper Registered since 04th Dec 2002Mon 26-Feb-07 01:17 AM
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#19. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 18


Charleston, US
          

Ah yes, it may be a small percentage. But!, an important one if you're the one who's out $1500+ as referenced in my previous post. It would be insensitive to think that it's not important because it doesn't happen much or doesn't happen to me/you. Lest anyone get the wrong idea, I absolutely believe that Nikonians is a great place to buy and sell equipment. I don't think fraud is rampant here and have never said so. If nothing comes of this discussion except people being more careful and not getting taken for a ride, than it will have been a fruitful discussion. There will certainly be more frauds and cheats here as this site continues to become more well known and the thieves read our posts to see how trusting we are. But there will be more of that activity everywhere on the net, not just here.

Regardless of the implementation difficulties for this moment, is there anyone who wouldn't feel more comfortable selling their equipment here rather than anywhere else if they had an escrow service?

Cheers,
LSC

"too much beauty....too little time"

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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akitaken Registered since 01st Sep 2006Sat 24-Mar-07 11:47 PM
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#25. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 18


San Francisco, US
          

who got scammed and who did the scamming? Does this happen often?

Kenny
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raob/

  

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sentinel4570 Platinum Member Nikonian since 30th Nov 2004Mon 26-Feb-07 01:30 PM
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#20. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 0


Big Piney, US
          

The Sentinel

I have bought many cameras and lens's off of the " I want to " sell" and have only had one mistake. Mine, it cost no but me. And even then it was not money. I did not receive an email and lost out on a tripod.

An secrow account would be ok if we all had a paypal account, which I do not, and probably never will. One person would not take cahiers check's or money orders so I Fedex'ed cash to him and received my camera.

The possibility of fraud is always a risk. But if anyone of us have a problem, as in the scenirio of thee people buying the same item, would all let the moderators know that would take care that problem.

Do not know what the solution is to a human problem.???

Just my thoughts.

Thanks Robert Freddie: Lain
sentinel44570

The Sentinel

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Porrick Registered since 30th Nov 2005Mon 26-Feb-07 07:23 PM
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#22. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 20


Takoma Park, US
          

I figure I would also be one of the "suspects" should members rely on post-count to determine trustworthiness, so I guess I'll add my $.02.

Sensible buyers should be checking a lot more number of posts. Some things to look at include: membership level (Silver for me), profile (how complete/sensible), do they have a well/recently-stocked Nikonian gallery, do they have link(s) to a personal/pro gallery elsewhere. These are the minimum things I look at.

The more expensive the item and the more of a "deal" it seems, the more paranoid I become. In fact, I would likely be passing on that $1500 lens deal if I could not meet the seller face-to-face, or did not know them from this or another forum (e.g., forum founders/admins/constant contributors)--if one of our celebrated podcast guys is getting rid of a Nikon 12-24mm, I'm on it. Otherwise, it's just not worth my hard earned cash to take the risk.

Really: There are NO "deal-of-the-century" buys on the internet. There are only fair prices, unfair prices, and scams. So if it looks too good to be true, guess what.....

Porrick

http://www.nikonians-images.com/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=82133&password=

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Aqualung Silver Member Awarded for his technical proficiency and numerous positive critiques over several years, most notably in the Sports forum Charter MemberMon 26-Feb-07 07:20 PM
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#21. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 0


near Boston, US
          

I find when others post replies to a seller's listing, in an informal feedback system, basically saying "I bought such & such from Johnny, it was a great transaction", it is very helpful, especially when it's referencing a fairly recent transaction.

Obviously, this can be abused by the scammer using another username to post, but, if it comes from someone w/ a # of posts >10, then it helps, IMHO.

Can this be encouraged or made mandatory? Still absolving nikonians.org from any liability.

Chris
=====
D300/D3s & more glass than I dare tell the wife


Olympus OM-D EM-1, Olympus 12-40ƒ2.i, Panasonic Leica 25mmƒ1.4


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kwf Registered since 01st Apr 2006Tue 27-Feb-07 05:31 AM
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#23. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 21


Key West, US
          

Even though I am a paid member, I guess I too would not be able to sell or buy anything here due to my low post counts. I agree more post don't equal honesty.

1. It would discourage alot of members,
I too, read alot more than I post, 99% of the time, my questions and others have already been answered, so I am not going to be redundant and post the same question or answer.

Should I now feel that I am distrusted or looked down on, because of my low post count???

2. It will not stop the corrupt.
I too have been bamboozled out of money and no merchandise on ebay. But I did check, the poster had many transactions. all positive. -- Then the scam --

- All the positive transactions were small - under $15.00.
- They then auctioned alot of items, all different catagories, and all just under $ 100.00
- All the new auctions would end at the same time.

Needless to say, after a couple weeks, numerous of negetive post started to appear, trying to warn others, but only to be too late. He (the scammer) had alread received all the money, never to be found.

So I don't think requiring a certain number of post would stop them. But, I do agree that you can't just sit by, because if it is easy, then the scams would only esculate.

Alot of good suggestion are made above, Maybe a stern warning on a stickey note. Stating that nikonians would cooperate with authorities or something worded similar.

Thieves and such, usually avoid the hard targets. such as the business or house with alarms, cameras, warning signs, personell present. They would look for the easy target, the one next door without protection.

Just a thought. Only 19 more post to go.
getting late, Nite..
Bert

Bert

My Nikonians Gallery

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mperle Registered since 13th Sep 2006Sat 24-Mar-07 11:01 PM
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#24. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 0


New York, US
          

Reference to E Bay feedback would be useful, but should to confirm actually is the same person -- i.e., by e-mailing through e-bay.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

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gk Basic MemberSun 25-Mar-07 01:23 PM
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#27. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

while I agree that steps should be taken to protect buyers as well as sellers.....a minimum posting requirement is discriminatory. I have been reading the forums on and off for the past 5 years and been a paid member for the past three. Because of time constraints, there may me long periods of time between "sign ons" and I am not an active poster. During those 5 years I have occasionally bought and sold through the forums (most recently this week) and have good experiences both as a buyer and a seller....actually, over the 5 years, most of my posts have been in the buy/sell forum and I seriously doubt whether my total postings would reach 20....never mind over the past 6 months. Your proposal re. a minimum # of postings to be eligible would serve no practical purpose. Anybody interested in using the forum to scam could easily meet those requirements in a relatively short time. It would, however, penalize less active members, like myself, who occasionally list a piece of no longer needed equipment.

gk

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sergeantcigar Silver Member Nikonian since 23rd Dec 2005Sun 25-Mar-07 02:21 PM
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#28. "RE: safety for sellers and buyers"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

There are a number of ways you can make yourself a little safer when buying over the internet - whether here or somewhere else. I have been fortunate here. I bought a lens with fungus from a Nikonian, but he immediately gave me a refund and an appology when I returned the lens. I was not so fortunate on the big auction web site with one of my dealings.

There are some steps we can take to increase the odds of success:

How long has the seller been a member?

How many posts does he/she have?

What kind of posts were they... only recent sales?

Is the seller willing to give you a name & phone phone number to talk about the item in question?

Do a Web search on the person. The amount of information available is amazing (scary).

If the seller has another account elsewhere with good ratings, check the ratings and verify it is the same person.

Also, instead of a rating system putting the onus on Nikonians, how about closing each transaction with a final post stating you received the item in good shape - or not. That way, people could search the posts for previous successful transactions.

I would hate to see the buy/sell forum destroyed by abuse. I have had some very good transactions here, and I know that by far, most people are very honest.

  

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