Go to a  "printer friendly" view of this message which allow an easy print Printer-friendly copy Go to the page which allows you to send this topic link and a message to a friend Email this topic to a friend
Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) Nikon & Nikonians Imaging Software (Public) topic #9946
View in linear mode

Subject: "View NX2 and xmp files" Previous topic | Next topic
M_Jackson Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Mon 04-Feb-13 04:44 AM
680 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
"View NX2 and xmp files"


Jackson, US
          

I just loaded View NX2 from the disk that came with the D800. I am a long time Lightroom and Photoshop user. I have a few basic questions.

An XMP file is not on the CF card initially. All I see are NEF files. Right now I am importing them first into Lightroom. I assume Lightroom is adding the XMP on import. If I go this route, is VIEW NX2 reading the XMP file generated by Lightroom? Does View NX2 create XMP files at all?

In View NX2, I can select a pile of photos and click the trash can, which is deleting the raw files but leaving the XMP files in the folder and in the viewer. Is there a command that links the XMP sidecar so they both get deleted at the same time?

In Lightroom, I click the X key to flag images for deleting as a group with the Control-Backspace command. Is there something similar in View NX2, and if not, how do you quickly cull images in a folder?

Sorry if all these questions have been asked and answered a zillion times before.

M. Jackson

M. Jackson
Jackson Hole, WY

Blog: www.bestofthetetons.com
Web Site: www.tetonimages.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: View NX2 and xmp files
ericbowles Moderator
04th Feb 2013
1
Reply message RE: View NX2 and xmp files
M_Jackson Silver Member
04th Feb 2013
2
     Reply message RE: View NX2 and xmp files
ericbowles Moderator
04th Feb 2013
3
Reply message RE: View NX2 and xmp files
nrothschild Silver Member
08th Feb 2013
4
Reply message RE: View NX2 and xmp files
M_Jackson Silver Member
09th Feb 2013
5
     Reply message RE: View NX2 and xmp files
nrothschild Silver Member
09th Feb 2013
6
     Reply message RE: View NX2 and xmp files
ericbowles Moderator
09th Feb 2013
7
          Reply message RE: View NX2 and xmp files
M_Jackson Silver Member
10th Feb 2013
8

ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Mon 04-Feb-13 11:16 AM
8520 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#1. "RE: View NX2 and xmp files"
In response to Reply # 0


Atlanta, US
          

Be sure you have updated View NX2 to the latest version. The latest version is 2.7.1. Updates can be downloaded from Nikon USA. Nikon Message Center is worthless and don't rely on it.

View NX2 embeds any edits in the NEF file as an instruction set with changes - there is no XMP. The NEF file also contains a small basic JPEG from the camera, but it is replaced with a larger JPEG if you make edits in View or Capture. On the D800 files, updating the JPEG can take a brief moment and make processing seem slow especially if you have multiple files selected. At the bottom of the screen is a progress bar that shows the progress of updating images.

View does not recognize the XMP sidecar files and does not delete them.

In View you can select as many images as you want using the Control key, or groups of images with the Shift key. Once selected you can either right click and select delete, or simply use the Delete key.

I use the Filter to identify images by rating. I can look at just selects, just images to be deleted, etc.

Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
My Gallery
Workshops

Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
M_Jackson Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Mon 04-Feb-13 04:22 PM
680 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#2. "RE: View NX2 and xmp files"
In response to Reply # 1


Jackson, US
          

Thanks, that helps. I installed the new version.

Normally, I go through quickly and mark soon-to-be-deleted images with the X key. In View, it looks like I need to use a 1, then later sort by Label to make it easy to get to all the 1's while contiguous and use the Shift-Select method.

View is rendering the preview image much faster than LR, so I can see a use for it for me for the initial culling.

Thanks again,
M. Jackson

M. Jackson
Jackson Hole, WY

Blog: www.bestofthetetons.com
Web Site: www.tetonimages.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Mon 04-Feb-13 05:58 PM
8520 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#3. "RE: View NX2 and xmp files"
In response to Reply # 2


Atlanta, US
          

Mark

What you are describing is similar to my workflow. I rate every image 1-5 rather than just my selects. For me, my goal is to discard the 1 and 2 rated images, keep the 3's, keep the 4's and use that group to identify selects for editing, and keep the 5's with the same approach. I use the color labels to identify selects, edited selects or other similar decisions.

By setting the filter to 0 I only see unrated images. I can make it through a large group very quickly. The filter also allows me to take a second look at 1 and 2 rated images before discarding them in order to make sure there were no mistakes. Likewise it allows me to look at just 4 and 5 rated images to identify selects for editing and the status of editing.

As you describe, rendering is very fast in View. And it quickly zooms to 100% with a click.

I also use View for quick edits related to event photos.

Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
My Gallery
Workshops

Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Fri 08-Feb-13 04:53 PM
10907 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#4. "RE: View NX2 and xmp files"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

I'm a long time CNX2/PhotoMechnic/iMatch user...

Nikon does not recognize XMP in any way. As I understand your question and setup, Lightroom will create XMP on ingest. As long as you stay in LR you are OK.

Once you have ingested into LR, you effectively lose any *Metadata* inter-operability between Nikon apps (View NX2 or CNX2) and perhaps just about anything else.

In my case, both iMatch and Photomechanic have enough metadata config options to work between themselves (sort of) but I never figured out how to make all 3 apps work together such that I could do front end metadata changes (star ratings, color classes and IPTC) in either PM and CaptureNX2 and get them to inter-operate between themselves, and ingest properly with iMatch.

I gave up trying, and decided not to use any Nikon apps for metadata work. That worked for me because I'd rather do it in PM anyway. It may be doable but as I said, I gave up .

With LR I would expect you would run into something similar if you want to change metadata in Nikon apps AFTER ingesting into LR. But beyond the problems I had with different apps, fundamentally it is difficult to inter-operate any browser or metadata/image editor like CNX2 and any cataloger.

That because the catalog app (LR in your case) will tend to get "confused" when it is updated with an image file that has different metadata. Which is the right one?

Not to say it can't be done, but it takes a huge amount of thought, and perhaps workflow discipline, assuming it can even mechanically happen.

(some of the above addresses issues that you are not specifically addressing, but perhaps you should? Even if CNX2 or ViewNX2 managed the deleting of sidecar files, that is only step one of a very complex process to keep the metadata straight)

If you do not want to use LR to do your culling, you might try Photomechanic. It is expensive (probably more than LR now) but for many of us has become somewhat indispensable, and at least partly because it has such a rich set of metadata configuration options. And it is written with XMP sidecar file management in mind.

_________________________________
Neil


my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
M_Jackson Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Sat 09-Feb-13 01:37 AM
680 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#5. "RE: View NX2 and xmp files"
In response to Reply # 4


Jackson, US
          

Hello nrothschild,
Thanks for your response.

I wasn't happy with the sharpness of my D800 images in Lightroom. The D4 images looked fine, but just about all of my D800 images were soft when viewed at 1:1. I spent quite a bit of time using a Lens Align to make sure my lenses were adjusted to compensate for front focusing or back focusing.

I spoke with my Nikon dealer who is in love with his D800 and then visited his shop to view some of his images on his computer. He doesn't use Lightroom, but uses View NX2 instead. I talked him into copying a few of his D800 images onto a CD. When I got home, I loaded them into LR and they looked soft. I loaded View NX2 and looked at his images and they looked much sharper.

That's also when I noticed View NX2 will render the image for the screen much faster than LR, especially on the 35 mpx 14 bit images.

At the time I made the first post, I was bringing the images into a folder on the hard drive using Lightroom. That created the XMP sidecar files. In LR, I have the option to link the sidecars to the NEF file, so if I delete it, the XMP files gets deleted with it. When I was culling images in View NX2, it didn't delete the sister XMP files and I ended up with a long list of remanant files in the folder.

Since the original post, I changed the initial workflow and like it much better. I do a copy from the USB3 flash card reader into a dedicated folder on the internal C drive. That goes fast. Then I open View NX2 and point to that folder where I give the culls a 1 label. I delete the culls in one command, leaving me with only a few keepers, usually 5%-10% of the original shots. Then I open Lightroom and import the keepers into the New Shoot folder, changing the file name and adding the appropriate keywords either on import or afterwards.

This is all much faster for me than the way I was doing it, mainly because it was taking LR a long time to render a preview image of a 35mpx file. With this workflow, I don't get a XMP file until I am in LR, and I know now that I need to do a little sharpening to bring it up to standards. The data is there, but LR is not showing it on import.

I have been using LR for way too long to switch to anything new now. The D800 threw a wrench into things, however.

Thanks again,
Mike Jackson

M. Jackson
Jackson Hole, WY

Blog: www.bestofthetetons.com
Web Site: www.tetonimages.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Sat 09-Feb-13 09:22 AM
10907 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: View NX2 and xmp files"
In response to Reply # 5


US
          

Hi Mike,

I think you made the correct adjustment to your workflow. If you use LR you don't want to fight it.

You might want to adjust your LR ingest to automatically apply more sharpening via a preset. Might save you a step in the work flow.

You can make ViewNX render as slowly or likely more slowly than LR while browsing . From the ViewNX2 menu, click View|Viewer|Display Raw Image. Now ViewNX2 will render every image before it displays it, rather than just extract the embedded JPG.

Don't forget to change that back to View|Viewer|Display Preview

The performance problem you have while culling in LR is why a lot of people front end it with something like ViewNX2 or Photomechanic. I would have to do the same. It's all part of the grand compromise required to use some other raw editor other than CNX2. So you are not alone, and you are doing the right thing.

>> I have been using LR for way too long to switch to anything new now. The D800 threw a wrench into things, however.

There are a lot of reasons why, if that was your only problem, you would not want to throw in the LightRoom towel if that was your only problem. You'd be trading for a lot of more complex problems. And that is from a long time CNX2/PM/iMatch user. But this user is buried in his own pile of historic CNX2 edits.

_________________________________
Neil


my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Sat 09-Feb-13 01:38 PM
8520 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#7. "RE: View NX2 and xmp files"
In response to Reply # 5


Atlanta, US
          

Mike

Keep in mind that viewing a D800 image at 100% is very near viewing a D4 image at 200%. The D800 file viewed at just 1000 pictures - filling a screen - is 1/7 the image while the D4 image at 1000 pixels is 1/4 the image.

As the D800 file is much larger, any sharpening settings while ingesting the images will be different. The D800 image will take stronger sharpening than other cameras.

That being said - the D800 images should be very sharp.

I think your workflow changes make a lot of sense.


Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
My Gallery
Workshops

Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
M_Jackson Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Sun 10-Feb-13 06:01 PM
680 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#8. "RE: View NX2 and xmp files"
In response to Reply # 7


Jackson, US
          

Eric,
I thought viewing at 1:1 was independent of the size of the monitor?

I'll have to go back and look, but I believe the images shot at DX Crop size on the D800 were equally blurry (in Lightroom) to the ones shot at full frame when viewed at 1:1. Those images are only around 15 mpx. In View, they look fine either way.

FWIW, I have an 30" Apple Cinema Display, calibrated with a Color Munki.

Yes, the modified workflow is working fine for me now. Much faster overall. On the D4, I usually import directly into LR since they preview faster and import fast enough off the XQD cards and with USB3 connections.

Thanks again,
M. Jackson

M. Jackson
Jackson Hole, WY

Blog: www.bestofthetetons.com
Web Site: www.tetonimages.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) Nikon & Nikonians Imaging Software (Public) topic #9946 Previous topic | Next topic


Take the Nikonians Tour and learn more about being a Nikonian Wiki /FAQ /Help Listen to our MP3 photography radio channels Find anything on Nikon and imaging technology - fast!

Copyright © Nikonians 2000, 2014
All Rights Reserved

Nikonians®, NikoScope® and NikoniansAcademy™ are trademarks owned by Nikonians.org.
Nikon®, Nikonos® and Nikkor® are registered trademarks of Nikon Corporation.