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Subject: "Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving" Previous topic | Next topic
Netadmin Registered since 16th Apr 2011Tue 24-May-11 05:41 PM
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"Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
Tue 24-May-11 05:43 PM by Netadmin

Fenwick, CA
          

Searched the Imaging Software Forum with no specific answer to a question.

D90 user - New to post processing. I've downloaded the trial version of NX2 and following along while reading through the following book:

Real World Nikon Capture NX 2 by Ben Long

In the book the author states:

" If you simply choose Save after opening and editing a raw file, your edits will be saved back into the NEF file that your camera generated. Don’t worry, though, your original raw data remains untouched."

I'm not clear on the meaning of this. I've made adjustments to a NEF file and saving the file as .NEF grew the file size, with the adjustments intact. Does the author imply that the "original raw data" is unchanged, and one can revert to this data by simply removing the edits, or does he imply that the actual .NEF file will be untouched.

Sorry if this question is basic, but as stated, I'm only now delving into the world of post processing.
As always, I appreciate your time and patience.

Vince

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving
elec164 Silver Member
24th May 2011
1
Reply message RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving
Netadmin
24th May 2011
2
     Reply message RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving
elec164 Silver Member
24th May 2011
3
          Reply message RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving
Netadmin
24th May 2011
4
               Reply message RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving
gpoole Platinum Member
24th May 2011
5
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PAStime Silver Member
24th May 2011
6
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Netadmin
25th May 2011
7
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Netadmin
27th May 2011
8
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ericbowles Moderator
30th May 2011
9
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Netadmin
02nd Jun 2011
10
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robsb Platinum Member
03rd Jun 2011
11
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Netadmin
03rd Jun 2011
12
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pdekman Gold Member
03rd Jun 2011
13
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Netadmin
03rd Jun 2011
14

elec164 Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2009Tue 24-May-11 07:02 PM
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#1. "RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 24-May-11 07:04 PM by elec164

US
          

Vince, the question is not that basic and a good one at that.

The NEF contains the raw data from the sensor that is for the most part unaltered. Your camera settings are contained in the maker notes and are just a list of edit steps to be used by Nikon software to render the image.

When you make edits to your NEF in CNX2, those edit steps are saved in a separate list contained in the NEF along with all the original information from the camera produced NEF. But that information is minimal and does not add all that much to the file size.

Where the large increase in file size comes from is that the out of camera NEF contains a large/basic JEPG embedded in it along with the sensor data and EXIF information. But when you do an edit in either View NX2 or Capture NX2 and do a save, the large/basic embedded JPEG is replaced with a large/fine embedded JPEG.

Pete

Pete

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Netadmin Registered since 16th Apr 2011Tue 24-May-11 09:37 PM
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#2. "RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
In response to Reply # 1


Fenwick, CA
          

Pete:
Thanks for your reply. I seem to recall, that when I reopened the saved .NEF, that the edit steps were contained in the file. Is that working as designed, or did I "think" I saw them. Sorry I don't have a specific example, I recall seeing a "check" next to camera settings, indicating that I may have edited that portion.
I could be wrong. I'll have to test that theory again, just to be sure.

  

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elec164 Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2009Tue 24-May-11 09:48 PM
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#3. "RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

Yes the edit steps will be applied when reopening the file and I believe the embedded JPEG will have those steps applied to it also, but a database is maintained also within the NEF to indicate the original camera settings. I have limited experience with CaptureNX and mainly prefer PS instead. But I have read here that you can actually save several renditions of the same capture within one NEF (though I’ve never done it myself). I guess you can say that is one of the benefits of using Nikon software when working with NEF’s.

And you are correct in that the sensor data information is never altered, so the edit list can be changed over and over without any image degradation. Perhaps some of the more proficient CNX2 users will chime in to help fill in the blanks of my limited understanding. For instance if creating multiple renditions, which one is applied to the embedded JPEG???

Pete

Pete

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Netadmin Registered since 16th Apr 2011Tue 24-May-11 10:11 PM
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#4. "RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
In response to Reply # 3


Fenwick, CA
          

If Capture NX2 actually maintains a "database" then it would make sense that one could revert to a point in time, or in this context, a step in time. I haven't read anything regarding the inner workings of Capture, although I know there is (are) instructional DVDs by DrJay, who I believe might be a Nikonian.

At the moment, I have access to Lightroom 3, Photoshop CS5, through my employment (IT department at a local college)and the trial version of Capture. I'm sampling all three to see which one suits me, but Capture NX2, being a Nikon product, seems to be a logical choice, and well praised by Nikonians.
I've also got access to Safari Books on line, where I found this book, however I've purchased various books by Scott Kelby, Bryan Peterson as I prefer to have the hard copy.

I may have interpreted the .NEF save function as actually saving different files(versions), but haven't actually wrapped my head around that aspect.
Again, thanks for your comments.

  

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gpoole Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Nikonian since 14th Feb 2004Tue 24-May-11 10:26 PM
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#5. "RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
In response to Reply # 4


Farmington Hills, US
          

The editing step "database" in a NEF file contains the original settings from the camera and a last saved section of settings and processing instructions. The user can also name other versions of editing steps that will also be saved. The "database" has no reference to time except the original and last saved set of instructions.

As others have said the raw sensor data is never changed. Capture NX2 applies the selected editing steps to the raw data to produce a image, The imbedded JPG corresponding to the last saved set of instructions is updated with each save,

Gary in SE Michigan, USA. Co-organizer of the Southern Michigan Chapter
Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera.
D4, D810, D300, D90, F6, FM3a (black), FM2n (chrome)
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PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009Tue 24-May-11 11:51 PM
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#6. "RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
In response to Reply # 5


Kingston, CA
          

It might help to add that within Capture NX2, after having made some edits to a NEF, you will see a menu pick at the top of the edit list. It will usually say "Current" to indicate you are working on the latest, current version. From this menu pick you can choose "Original" to go back to the untouched original. You can also save intermediate versions, naming them what you'd like. This is a very cool feature. All of my NEFs are thus post-processed nicely, but at any time I can go back and give that post-processing a second try. That is especially useful when I learn something new and want to go back and further improve some of my favourite images. Hope that also helps a tad, Peter

  

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Netadmin Registered since 16th Apr 2011Wed 25-May-11 12:33 AM
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#7. "RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
In response to Reply # 6


Fenwick, CA
          

Gary:
Your response, and Peter's below yours, certainly cleared it up for me.

Peter:
I hadn't noticed the "version" pick button until you pointed it out. Thanks all.

Vince

  

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Netadmin Registered since 16th Apr 2011Fri 27-May-11 11:37 AM
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#8. "RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
In response to Reply # 7


Fenwick, CA
          

One more question:
I made some edits in a photo, including a crop.
When I clicked File/Save As... renamed the file and chose "jpeg", the file saved in its original state, without the crop.
Should it not have saved the edited version or is that only done from the top of the Edit list, by choosing "new version"?

Thanks

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ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Mon 30-May-11 11:03 AM
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#9. "RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
In response to Reply # 8


Atlanta, US
          

It's easy to make the crop but not complete the step and apply the crop.

Crop the image as planned. Then double click on the cropped image to "apply" the crop. After that you should be able to use the Save or Save As command as desired.

My workflow is normally to make all edits except the crop and Save the NEF. That way my edits are retained - even if it is simply a version - and I can quickly pick up at the last edit for a crop and print.

View NX2 has taken a slightly different approach that is probably clearer. It uses the Start function to enable cropping and the Apply button to enable your selected crop.

View NX2 is a pretty good basic editor and viewer. For my event photography I typically only use View NX2 for edits and converting to JPEG. Note that the Save As button in View NX2 does not create a highest quality JPEG - you have to Convert to adjust quality and size levels of the resulting JPEG.


Eric Bowles
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Netadmin Registered since 16th Apr 2011Thu 02-Jun-11 12:01 PM
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#10. "RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
In response to Reply # 9
Thu 02-Jun-11 12:02 PM by Netadmin

Fenwick, CA
          

Eric:
Thank you for your response.
I had completed the crop - I have found, I believe, that I was actually working on a different version, if that makes sense.

I have noticed in various posts, that people's workflow includes NX2, Lightroom and CS5. Why would someone use all three? I understand that NX2 is Nikon's product and it would make sense to couple it with an image produced with a Nikon camera, but in my limited experience in the area of post-processing, are there options available in each software that might not be available in the others? Keep in mind that I'm not asking for a complete list of features, but thinking in general terms.

I guess what I'm really asking is, without being too specific, are all three products lacking in some area?

As stated, I'm using all three, or at least trying to learn all three, in the hopes of deciding which one is better suited to my skill level, while attempting to learn how to make my photos look better. I have both Lightroom and CS5 and the trial version of NX2.
The Adobe products are fully licensed versions, available to me through my employment. I am willing to purchase NX2 if I need to, but only if it provides features not available in the Adobe products, or if it will enhance my workflow.
Thanks for you patience
Vince

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Fri 03-Jun-11 01:27 AM
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#11. "RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
In response to Reply # 10


San Jose, US
          

I don't own LR as I never saw an advantage in it and don't care about cataloging my images. I do use CS5 and CNX2. A detailed difference would be a long response, so let me try to sum it up in a few sentences. If you want it all, 3D, Photography, Illustration support, text, Pano's, HDR, blending of multiple images, the ability to change canvas size, lots of plug ins and tons of books on how to use it and don't care that non of your Nikon settings will be readable and you don't need a strong catalogue function, then you want CS5. CS5 is also the hardest to master. I only use CS5 for what I cannot do in CNX2, primarily the 3D, blending of images and Pano's and focus stacking. If you need a strong catalogue function and don't need the power of CS5, and don't care that non of your Nikon setting will be readable, you probably want LR, as it is easier to learn than CS5, but give up a lot of power for its simplicity. If you want the best RAW processor for your NEF (Mike Hagen) and you do want your SW to apply all your camera settings, and if you use ADL. Then you want CNX2. CNX2 is the only SW in this group that can properly process ADL, can read all of your camera settings, saves all of your edits nondestructively back into the NEF and does not rely on sidecars. It has no edits that require that you work in TIFF mode and all of its edit are totally reversible at any time in the future. It is much easier to learn than either CS5 or LR and will give you professional results with much less effort. It is also cheaper than CS5 by quite a bit.

Bob Baldassano
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"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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Netadmin Registered since 16th Apr 2011Fri 03-Jun-11 02:46 AM
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#12. "RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
In response to Reply # 11


Fenwick, CA
          

Bob:
You've summed it pretty well:
CS5 comes with a lot of features I will probably never use.
LR is great at cataloging but gives up the ability to apply my camera settings.
CNX2 provides a host of editing features, non-destructively with the added benefit of being able to read my D90's settings.

I do like the Control point feature of CNX2. By ADL I presume you mean Active D-Lighting.

I do have CS5 and LR, at no cost, through work. I do like the cataloging feature of LR, and CNX2 is far less daunting than CS5, so it would appear that, at least for the present time, I will combine the features of LR and CNX2.

Thanks for your time.

Vince

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pdekman Gold Member Winner in The Nikonians 10th Anniversary Photo Contest Awarded as a regular contributor who offers in-depth knowledge to members who are interested in building efficient work flows. Nikonian since 17th Nov 2005Fri 03-Jun-11 03:28 AM
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#13. "RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
In response to Reply # 12


Swisher, US
          

I'd advise some caution here - use of all of these programs together can get cumbersome, and raw edits are not shared or viewable between Nikon and Adobe products (or DxO, or Bibble, or PhaseOne, etc.)

I think the first comparison comes down which raw editor do you want to use, CNX2 or LR3. Get comfortable with each and choose based on your personal workflow and program strengths. Recognize that CS5 is a different beast all-together with pixel editing, layers, cloning, etc., the use of which is specialized and will probably be used for a minority of your photos regardless of which raw editor you choose.

Paul
My Nikonians Gallery

  

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Netadmin Registered since 16th Apr 2011Fri 03-Jun-11 11:24 AM
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#14. "RE: Capture NX2 and Raw File Saving"
In response to Reply # 13


Fenwick, CA
          

Thanks Paul:
You are correct in as much as using all three, in my situation, makes no sense at all.
I had asked the original question because I've noticed in some member's posts that they do use all three and was wondering why that might be necessary, or more specifically, why some folks would want to use all three.
But, as you've said, it comes down to personal preference.
Thanks again

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) Nikon & Nikonians Imaging Software (Public) topic #6313 Previous topic | Next topic


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