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Subject: "View NX vs. LR, CS5?" Previous topic | Next topic
steveZ Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Apr 2007Tue 22-Mar-11 07:00 PM
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"View NX vs. LR, CS5?"


Englewood, US
          


What can a person do with View NX that you cannot do with LightRoom and Photoshop?
Are any View NX changes transferrable to LR? PS?

Thanks

Steve Z
www.stevezavodny.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest
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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Tue 22-Mar-11 08:15 PM
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#1. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 0


San Jose, US
          

View NX2 is a basic photo editor that is free. It is not as powerful as CNX2 which is a full RAW processor. But that said, View NX2 can be used to view and rate RAw images add data and information about the image and do simple editing all the while storing all this in the original NEF. Neither LR or CS5 can save an edited NEF. Just do a search on CNX2 vs LR or CS5 to find many threads on this topic. Be warned that these threads can get quite emotional at times. Many believe because your edits are saved in the RAW file and not a side car and can be revisted and changed at any time after processing, that CNX2 is the best NEF RAW processor. This has been stated by Tom Hogan, Dr. J wrote a piece on why he still uses CNX2 for his processing, etc. The Adobe products also are powerful and often the choice is either economic or ease of use that determines what you use. They all do a good job of editing images, but on this forum we prefer CNX2 and View NX2. If you need to do Pano's, HDR, blend two or more images then you will want CS5. Otherwise CNX2 is much easier to use and will give you profressional results with less work, and provide you a much smaller edited file tht can also store multiple iterations.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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steveZ Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Apr 2007Tue 22-Mar-11 08:44 PM
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#2. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 1


Englewood, US
          

> Neither LR or CS5 can save an edited NEF.

Are you saying that xmp sidecar files from LR & PS5 are large enough to create significant file size boosts? How much? Suppose that is not a concern?

Can VNX & CNX modifications be read by LR & PS5?

What can VNX CNX do that LR & CS5 cannot do, that can make a difference in the final web or print output?

Since VNX is free, I wonder specifically what it can do vis-a-vis previous question?

>Many believe because your edits are saved in the RAW file and not a side car and can be >revisited and changed at any time after processing, that CNX2 is the best NEF RAW >processor.

I thought that was the fundamental benefit of side car files as well?


Thanks for answers !
Steve Z
www.stevezavodny.com

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DeanAZ Moderator Expert nature photographer Nikonian since 28th Apr 2007Wed 23-Mar-11 04:35 AM
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#3. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 2


Phoenix, US
          

Steve, I also use ViewNX2/CNX2. Most of the actual editing id done in CNX2 but sometimes I will do quick edits on a set of shots that need similar adjustments in ViewNX2. Also, another really big thing for me is that fact that both programs work on the raw sat based on the in camera settings you have chosen at the time of the shot. The non-Nikon products do not have access to this data.

Since ViewNX2 is free, why not give it a try and see what it can do? There is also a trial version of CNX2. The control points got me hooked and I bought the software after less than a week (and that was the 1st version of CNX even.)

Dean
Phoenix, Arizona USA
Nikonians Team Member
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DeanAZ Moderator Expert nature photographer Nikonian since 28th Apr 2007Wed 23-Mar-11 04:45 AM
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#4. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 2
Wed 23-Mar-11 04:47 AM by DeanAZ

Phoenix, US
          

>> Neither LR or CS5 can save an edited NEF.
>
>Are you saying that xmp sidecar files from LR & PS5 are
>large enough to create significant file size boosts? How
>much? Suppose that is not a concern?
>
Remember, if you are working with non-Nikon software you will have used their raw convertor to generate a tiff file to do your edits on. This file can be as much as 4 times larger than a raw nef file. Then you have the sidecar files on top of that.

>Can VNX & CNX modifications be read by LR & PS5?
>
Nope. But you could use either app to generate a tiff or jpeg to edit in other software.

>What can VNX CNX do that LR & CS5 cannot do, that can make
>a difference in the final web or print output?
>
This is not so much the software but the skill of the operator, in my opinion. I think there is a shorter learning curve with CNX2 than CS5 and CNX2 is considerably less expensive.

>>Many believe because your edits are saved in the RAW file
>and not a side car and can be >revisited and changed at any
>time after processing, that CNX2 is the best NEF RAW
>>processor.
>
>I thought that was the fundamental benefit of side car files
>as well?
>
I don't believe the sidecar files let you do the kind of versioning you can do with CNX2. And the file does not grow larger with multiple versions embedded to any significant degree. You could have a single nef that contains the edited image in several different aspect ratios and throw in a black and white conversion as well for example.
>

Dean
Phoenix, Arizona USA
Nikonians Team Member
Website: The Splendid Silence of Light

Recent Trips: Grand Canyon 2012 Glen Canyon 2012 West Clear Creek

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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steveZ Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Apr 2007Wed 23-Mar-11 06:35 AM
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#5. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 4


Englewood, US
          

Thank you for these comments.
I'm disinclined to plunk out more money and endure another learning period when LR & CS are 2d nature to me. Storage or file size is no concern to me versus what can I really see about some image characteristic(s) that might be compelling, print and web? And of course, since VNX is free, I'd be glad to exploit what it can do too. What can it do better
enough for print and web?

I did one preliminary test and VNX jpg changes were in fact apparent in LR, Bridge, etc.


Steve Z
www.stevezavodny.com

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Wed 23-Mar-11 08:05 AM
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#6. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 5


San Jose, US
          

Changes made to NEF's are what LR and CS5 cannot see. If you ship a TIFF or JPEG to LR or CS5 all the CNX2 or VNX2 changes will be baked in. You have to understand that only Nikon's SW can actually read all the camera control settings and those setting are applied to the NEF when it is rendered. Adobe cannot see them and uses its own proprietary algorithms, but they cannot properly process any NEF that used ADL as an example. If you are skilled in CS5 and LR stick with it. I am an advanced user of CS5 and go back to CS, but I now use CNX2 as my RAW processor because it is faster and easier to do just about anything I could do in CS5 with the exception of Panao's HDR or blended images. I can get the results of a complex mask in one click in CNX2 for a task that could take quite some time in Adobe products. If you want the ability to revisit your edits, you will need to use smart objects and smart layers in Adobe and save a layered file. This is not necessary in CNX2 because all edit steps are kept as a list in the NEF and are only applied when the NEF is rendered. That being the case you can go back any time in the future and change any edit step and re-save the NEF.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Thu 24-Mar-11 04:19 AM
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#8. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 5


Alberta, CA
          

>I'm disinclined to plunk out more money and endure another
>learning period when LR & CS are 2d nature to me.
>
The opposite of which caused me to go entirely View/Capture NX.

I had only rudimentary knowledge of Photoshop Elements so when someone thankfully convinced me to try Capture NX I was hooked and the bonus was I never had to learn Photoshop.

In your case if those two pieces of software are second nature then you should stick with them since there is only so much time in the day (assuming you are happy with the results and the workflow is satisfactory and proceeds with acceptable speed).

Hallelujah though to not needing TIFF for my workflow! I cringe when my buddies tell me of their file management processes involving TIFFs. I have substantial file management challenges as it is (primarily due to heavy time constraints) and adding TIFF to it is not somewhere I would willingly choose to go.

If you want to answer the question yourself (although I realize you are asking about View and not Capture), you should probably try RAW conversion on a trial version of Capture NX2 with some of your more problematic images just to see if you are not missing something. I get the feeling from my Lightroom/Nikon buddies that they do not get the same results out of their software that I do out of mine. Admittedly they may not have the high level Lightroom expertise that you do, so of course it may just be a knowledge thing as opposed to a software capability


Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
My Nikonians gallery
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steveZ Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Apr 2007Thu 24-Mar-11 05:04 AM
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#9. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 8


Englewood, US
          


Thanks, I will test these things, if there ever becomes enough time.

Even so, the answer to the core question remains elusive.
What about a CNX VNX image is different than ACR image?
Inquiring minds want to know. Will the palette be different?
Is the detail different? Are web sized images sharpened more
delicately? Is the print sharpness different? And are those
differences completely out of reach of ACR?
All the things we can see, print (big) & web, what's the difference?

And yes I will search threads on this, eventually, when ever
there is time, I hope.

Steve Z
www.stevezavodny.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Thu 24-Mar-11 06:52 AM
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#10. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 9


San Jose, US
          

Yes there are many threads. Much depends on what you are after. Key differences are CNX2 or VNX2 start with a NEF that has has all the controls you set in your camera applied to the image this includes picture controls, ADL, WB. etc. So your image is rendered pretty much as you saw on your camera monitor. You do ALL edits in 16 bit and all edits are done in the NEF file and saved that way. Nikon's proprietary algorithms are applied to the file. ACR uses Adobe proprietary algorithms which are different than Nikon's. Sharpening in CNX2 defaults to luminosity sharpening similar to going to LAB. The CNX2 sharpening tool includes tools to apply sharpening selectively based upon a number of possible parameters built into the USM tool. CNX2 uses U Point technology that is fully integrated into CNX2, yes i know you can use Vevesia and have that too, but it is not as integrated. Control points allow development of very complex masks with a few mouse clicks. CNX2 has built in Automatic distortion correction for a number of Nikkor lenses, and it also has a defish feature. Versions of your images can be saved in the same NEF and recalled at any time. The best thing is to try it, but do not expect an Adobe interface. If you are a Photoshop Master I don't think you would find much difference in output, but i prefer my CNX2 results to my Photoshop ones even though I know my way around CS5, and I can get my results more easily. It would be hard to state that the images would be sharper or the colors different, as it would depend on your skill as each program has the ability to change colors at will, and there are many areas where CNX2 does not have the capability of CS5. For me making the move to CNX2 was easy even though I had over 6 years of Photoshop training. I liked the fact that I did not have sidecars, did not have to work on Tiffs unless I wanted to move something to Photoshop, I liked the ease of use and the quick results and I liked the fact that I could re-edit as any time and re-save the NEF.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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steveZ Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Apr 2007Thu 24-Mar-11 07:19 PM
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#13. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 10


Englewood, US
          

>Key differences are CNX2 or VNX2 start with a NEF that
>has has all the controls you set in your camera applied to the
>image...

I get it. Great, Thanks.

Last time I used CNX was way back when they introduced those control points. At the time, I thought they were kinda klunky, cuz everything had to be applied in a circle, and where you did not want a circle, you had to place another control point that undoes the first one in a smaller circular way, like reshaping a circle into a square with a succession of smaller eraser circles. Also, the software was very very SLOOOW. Then it got expensive. In PS or ACR, you could simply brush in the selected areas for selective treatment, nondestructive, voila.

However, the most important thing for now, large prints, it seems even VNX would make the most valuable contribution, namely utilizing the proprietary raw data for camera settings, lens distortion, chromatic aberrations, innate sharpness (what else does the proprietary RAW give?). That would give me the purest, most essential raw material the NEF has to offer, as the launch point for the finishing refinements in PS. True or false?

Thanks for helping !

Steve Z
www.stevezavodny.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Thu 24-Mar-11 09:32 PM
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#14. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 13


San Jose, US
          

That is what some of the experts like Thom Hogan and Dr Jay seem to say. BTW CNX2 is a asset hog, you do need a fast computer and lots of RAM because it is working on the NEF and updating it by applying the edit steps. Adobe is much faster but I don't work in batches, but work on one image at a time. So while Adobe is faster, especially in batch tasks, the time to do complex tasks is quicker in CNX2, I usually spend 5 minutes on average on an image, with some taking longer of course. CNX2 is so much better than CNX. First of all I think you misunderstand the control points. It is not really applying a circle. If you look at it in the mask mode, you will see as you adjust the size of the selection circle you select more of the image even stuff outside the circle. Yes you can add and subtract points by adding more control points or you can use the brush to paint in or remove things selectively just like in Photoshop. But the selection control points give you a more accurate mask with just a few clicks. What changed in CNX2 was instead of just color control points, selection control points were added too, also a context aware correction brush for removing unwanted spots, etc. If you throw in NIK's Color Effects Pro 3.0 filters for CNX2 you get a fully integrated set of filters that can now be applied selectively just like all the other CNX2 actions. So you have hit on the first reason I moved to CNX2 as my RAW processor and in the beginning I was just using it just to get all the proprietary data and was shipping TIFFs to Photoshop, that was when CNX came out, but when CNX2 came out I realized I could not only do most of the work in CNX2 but it was all 16 bit processing, was fully re editable and was saved in the NEF, so I started doing most of my work in CNX2 instead of Photoshop, only moving Tiffs to PS when I needed to do something CNX2 could not do like blend multiple images. I think it pays to own both is you really are serious about your images. I never found a need for LR, as I thought it was no match for Photoshop, but you may not feel the same way.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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steveZ Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Apr 2007Thu 24-Mar-11 11:41 PM
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#15. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 14


Englewood, US
          

>That is what some of the experts like Thom Hogan and Dr Jay
>seem to say. BTW CNX2 is a asset hog, you do need a fast
>computer and lots of RAM .

16 GB ok?
2.26 quad core intel Xeon?

Where is thom hogans stuff?
here I presume
http://www.bythom.com/

where are those sharpening contests?

Thanks .

Steve Z
www.stevezavodny.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Fri 25-Mar-11 12:19 AM
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#16. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 15


San Jose, US
          

Overkill! CNX2 should fly. I am only using 8 GB of ram and an old Core 2 Duo until I build my next machine which I hope to do soon. I have to spec the parts and then look for where I can get the best price on the components. My next machine will also be 16 GB if I can fit that on the MB I choose. Thom has his own site,as you note, but there was a recent thread right here where Thom wrote an article that said he was giving up on CNX2. It caused quite s stir. But if you went back and read the article buried in the test was the statement that CNX2 was absolutely the best RAW processor for NEFs. It will be a fun read.I think the thread ran last month so it should not be hard to find. Dr. J is of course our own Nikonian Jason. He is one of the moderators of this forum. He wrote an article about why he still is using CNX2. Off the top of my head I don't remember Jason's site, but I think it is Luminous Landscapes. He also has a number of tutorials on U Tube and he published a number of good eBooks on using CNX2.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Mon 04-Apr-11 12:05 PM
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#20. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 9


Atlanta, US
          

Our Atlanta Nikonians chapter did a side by side comparison of Lightroom and Capture NX2. As far as images are concerned, a skilled user can get about the same result with either product - the key differences are in workflow, user interface, file size/versioning, and price.

CNX2 is quite intuitive - and the key features are around selection controls and control points. These benefits make CNX2 very fast for most edits.

The big advantages of Lightroom are that it is a cataloging program - something not claimed by Capture at all - and that it has much broader suport of plug-ins. Some plug-ins will work with Capture, but generally they are designed for the Adobe workflow. Most plug-ins simply provide faster handling of effects - but the effects can usually be accomplished without a plug-in if you want to invest the time.

Your comment about learning curve is relevant. That's probably the biggest hurdle you face. Capture is increasingly used by Nikon users - even pros. I recently talked to Canon pro Adam Jones and found he had switched to Capture from Lightroom for most of his image processing - he simply liked the user interface and found it very efficient for most of his images.

Eric Bowles
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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 05th May 2002Wed 23-Mar-11 01:22 PM
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#7. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 0


Colorado Springs, US
          

View NX2 is a fairly simple raw conversion tool that's intended for use by people who may just be using raw files sporadically. It's free, so that's certainly a virtue. It shows the focused area in the image, as well as fairly complete camera settings, so that can be helpful for troubleshooting at times. It reads the in-camera settings, but whether that's a virtue or a hindrance depends on the photographer. If you do a number of edits to files, you'll find it's not well-suited due to its speed or convenience. Even though I don't use it often, I do have a copy of it on each of my computers, primarily because it helps me assist other photographers who are having trouble with their shooting, especially those shooting jpegs.

As for other features mentioned in this thread, you may want to pursue those in the Adobe forum. You'll find that many things that are stated as not being capabilities of LR or ACR (the Photoshop equivalent) in this thread are in fact capabilities of those programs and have been for some time.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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Len Shepherd Gold Member Nikonian since 09th Mar 2003Thu 24-Mar-11 11:10 AM
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#11. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 7


Yorkshire, UK
          

>View NX2 is a fairly simple raw conversion tool
View NX2 has moved on - and for reasons best known to Nikon they have not advertised the improvements much.
Many of the Capture NX2 features such as shadow and highlight protection, basic sharpening, colour correction, axial colour aberration control, auto lateral colour aberration control and straighten options are available in the edit menu.
The system is not as good as Capture NX2, and you may need to convert to tif to get other software to incorporate the changes. Even so View NX2 has moved beyond something fairly simple.

Photography is a bit like archery. A technically better camera, lens or arrow may not hit the target as often as it could if the photographer or archer does not practice enough.

Len Shepherd

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 05th May 2002Thu 24-Mar-11 11:41 AM
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#12. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 11


Colorado Springs, US
          

It's safe to say it's a matter of perspective. It's more than was there before, but less than exists in most other options.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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cliddell Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Oct 2006Fri 01-Apr-11 01:52 PM
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#17. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 12


Pietermaritzburg, ZA
          

Hi Rick,

"View NX2 is a fairly simple raw conversion tool that's intended for use by people who may just be using raw files sporadically."
===

Just to say that I only use RAW and find the newer versions of View NX2 save me hours of time as a browser with a lot of editing potential especially as a quick run through hundreds of images. This is more than adequate for all emailing and facebook etc.

If I want to do "more" in depth editing on a selected few then with one click I can revert the previously edited image(s) to "as taken" (but of course don't have to) and Ctrl-O open the image(s) one at a time into Capture NX2...


Regards,
Clive Liddell
Pietermaritzburg
South Africa

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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steveZ Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Apr 2007Fri 01-Apr-11 05:13 PM
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#18. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 17


Englewood, US
          



OK so I cant even try CNX2 cuz I tried some primitive version once upon a time.
That's right, 1 trial per lifetime is what they give us. That's a deal killer and
too bad Nikon cant figure that out. So bye bye CNX forever i guess, unless
I find $200 on the street.

Thanks all for your advice.




Steve Z
www.stevezavodny.com

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Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Fri 01-Apr-11 06:46 PM
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#19. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 18


San Jose, US
          

Steve:

Why not call Nikon and explain the situation. I'll bet you can talk them into letting you try the new CNX2. Tell them we sort of talked you into it here. Can't hurt to ask. I call marketing departments all the time and am amazed at what they will do for you.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

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camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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b2martin_a Registered since 10th Jan 2007Mon 04-Apr-11 01:40 PM
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#21. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 19


US
          

I have View NX2, Capture NX2, and Photoshop CS5 and I use Photoshop CS5 for all RAW processing. It was mentioned several times in the above threads that you can't save different versions with Photoshop RAW converter, which I don't consider is correct. You can save as many snapshots as you want with the RAW converter, I consider this the equivalent of versions. The snapshots are saved in the XMP file and when you open the RAW file you just select the snapshot you want.

If you process a JPG or TIF file using Adobe RAW converter, the settings of the RAW converter are not saved in an XMP file, but in the JPG or TIF file. You can delete these at anytime and you have the original JPG or TIF file unmodified. This means that all edits you do with the Adobe RAW converter are nondestructive for RAW, JPG, and TIF files.

Third party software only reads the white balance data from the NEF file, so if it's important to you that the image opens looking like the JPG from the camera the only option you have is Nikon software.

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Mon 04-Apr-11 07:41 PM
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#22. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 21


San Jose, US
          

You are correct that you can save your RAW editing steps by taking snap shots just like using the History snapshots when in Photoshop, but this is not the same as versions in CNX2. Generally in Photoshop versions are saved as Layer Comps, which is quite an efficent way of saving Photoshop versions. Once you open a RAW file in Photoshop any further editing steps need to be processed in a non distructive manner using Smart Objects or Smart layers to be able to come back and re-edit in the future. As you say all steps are saved in side cars. Some edit steps in Photoshop are still not 16 bit. When you open the RAW file in Photoshop you now need to use Layer Comps to save various edited versions, as far as I know. If I am missing something here I will be gald to learn something new for my use of CS5.

In CNX2 ALL edit steps are 16 bit and are saved in the NEF, as well as all versions of those edit steps and ALL steps can be revisited at any time as long as you stay in NEF format. If you move a JPEG or TIFF to CNX2 you can only save new edit steps to a new NEF, so in that case you don't have full control of going back to an original non edited file that way.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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F6hawk Registered since 10th Aug 2011Sun 04-Sep-11 07:36 PM
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#24. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 22


North Pole, US
          

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I'm curious... why all the fuss about NX2 being able to do 16-bit edits, when the NEF is only 12/14 bit?

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Sun 04-Sep-11 11:45 PM
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#25. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 24


San Jose, US
          

I am going to assume you know the benefit of 16 bit processing over 8 bit processing, but if you don't do a search and you will find tons of data as to why you should process your images at the highest bit density and widest gamut. But to answer your direct question, right now I don't know of any 35 mm equivalent DSLR that shoots larger than a 14 bit image. But any software that can process RAW images in 16 bits takes the 12 and 14 bit images and remaps them into the 16 bit space, thus giving you the maximum number of color graduations. While most of the Adobe tools have been rewritten to work on 16 bit files, there are still tools that only work in 8 bit. All of CNX2 tools are 16 bit, thus allowing you to stay in the highest quality image until you create an 8bit JPEG file at the end. All this allows you to make larger changes in your file without creating artifacts or un-smooth transitions.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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b2martin_a Registered since 10th Jan 2007Tue 06-Sep-11 10:52 PM
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#26. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 22


US
          

I was talking about saving snapshots in the RAW converter, not Photoshop. When you render an image in the RAW converter you can output 16 bit files for any of the snapshots. I very seldom do additional processing in Photoshop.

Adobe RAW converter also automatically corrects for lens distortion, chromatic abberations, and vignetting if the lens was characterized by Adobe. If not, Adobe supplies software that you can use to generate the lens correction data.

Camera profiles (Standard, Neutral, Portrait, vivid, etc) are a very close match to Nikon NX2 profiles. You can also calibrate the profiles using an shot of the Color Checker and use that profile in the RAW converte.

I have default RAW conversion parameters set as a function of ASA and camera model, so when I load RAW files for the first time the default for each has a good starting point for Noise correction.

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Wed 07-Sep-11 07:51 AM
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#27. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 26
Wed 07-Sep-11 08:03 AM by robsb

San Jose, US
          

I reread your original post and I see you specifically referred to the RAW processor ACR. We were discussing the use of Photoshop not just the ACR segment alone. So your setup is you do all of your work in ACR and do not move to Photoshop to finalize your images? I have not tried to operate in Photoshop in that manner as I always need to use some Photoshop tool not in ACR. If you are staying in ACR then indeed your able to stay in RAW. When you say output 16 bit files, are these then Tiffs or are you printing directly from the RAW file? In CNX2 my NEF is 16 bit and I can print right from the NEF and all versions including all edits are stored in the NEF. If I need to do something like blend multiple images I move Tiffs to Photoshop from CNX2. Yes Adobe has done a lot to improve the processing of NIKON images, but you are still working with Adobe approximations, and you cannot correctly process ADL files, but I do agree with enough skill and knowledge of Photoshop you can produce excellent images, and for many things Photoshop is more powerful. Staying in ACR without a trip to Photoshop is an interesting concept. I just find it to be quicker for me to do my work in CNX2 rather than Photoshop. I don't like sidecars. I never much liked ACR results before the major changes that were made to it and therefore never bothered to use ACR once I started to use CNX2 as my RAW processor as there was no point in going back to do so asI get excellent rendered RAW files with CNX2. For someone who has invested the time and money in Photoshop to become skilled it is a fine if expensive tool. for many of the CNX2 users it would be overkill and much harder to use than CNX2. For me Photoshop is my main go to product when I have a need to do something I cannot do in any other way. I still don't think the snapshots are a direct equivalent to CNX2 versions. I think the Photoshop versioning is closer to the idea of CNX2 versions, but snapshots sound like a good workaround if you can avoid going into Photoshop for any editing and want to keep versions without the Photoshop tool.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 05th May 2002Wed 07-Sep-11 01:29 PM
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#28. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 27


Colorado Springs, US
          

Snapshots are the equivalent of versioning within NX2 in that they allow you to save multiple edit sets for a file and switch between them. You can have a black and white snapshot, a color one, a desaturated color one, etc. They're all contained within the same group of instructions. They're not as powerful as virtual copies within LR3, where you get separate edits and a separately rendered image without a duplicate copy of the raw file, but that's not something NX2 has either. The speed of doing edits in ACR (or in LR3) is quite high, especially since it's so quick to do bulk edits or copies of edits across multiple files.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Wed 07-Sep-11 06:56 PM
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#29. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 28


San Jose, US
          

Rick thanks for the added info. I guess I need to go back into my CS5 Extended and look at the updated ACR capabilities further, even though I still will use CNX2 for my RAW processing, there may be times I might want to use the newer ACR features. I had not tried the ACR snapshots and was only familiar with the Photshop versioning. Because I would tend to move Tiffs to Photoshop from CNX2 I am more familiar with all the tools in Photoshop itself rather than the ACR tools, although I have used ACR before CNX2 came out. I know many more capabilites were added to ACR since then, but I have not played with it.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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b2martin_a Registered since 10th Jan 2007Wed 07-Sep-11 11:02 PM
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#30. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 22


US
          

When you use ACR, select the Camera Profiles instead of Adobe Standard if you want to match NX2 colors. I have calibrated all the Camera profiles using images of the colorchecker and Adobe DNG Profile Editor.

I consider the RAW files my masters. I do output JPG's for viewing and generate these using an Action in Photoshop, but if I want to print I output from the RAW file to Photoshop with a different image profile (Adobe RGB or ProPhoto), softproof and go from there.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Thu 08-Sep-11 05:59 AM
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#31. "RE: View NX2 has moved on"
In response to Reply # 30


San Jose, US
          

Thanks

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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Antero52 Silver Member Awarded for his expertise in post-processing, being  consistently helpful and professional. Nikonian since 07th Jul 2009Thu 07-Apr-11 02:56 PM
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#23. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 0


Vantaa, FI
          

> "What can a person do with View NX that you cannot do with LR/PS?"

Combine GPS data from GPX files with image files. LR can utilize GPS data (for searching or displaying location on a map) but as far as I know, LR cannot embed GPS data from GPX files to image files.

Furthermore, I find the import module of ViewNX2 more intuitive than the import module of LR, at least if I want to deviate from LR defaults. For instance, LR appears to insist on putting each day's photos into separate subfolders whereas I would like to store the entire trip to a common subfolder. Yet further, deleting and renaming NEF/JPG pairs is easier in VNX2 compared to LR. (If you tell LR to treat NEF and JPG separately, it will also rename them separately, assigning different names to the NEF and JPG. You will also have to delete the NEF and JPG separately. On the other hand, if you tell LR to treat them as pairs, it is difficult to handle old photos, processed with earlier programs, where the NEF is only the raw material and the JPG is the master.)

For these reasons, I use VNX2 to import photos to their ultimate location in my folder hierarchy, and then tell LR to do an in-place import.

Regards, Antero

  

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timpsm Gold Member Nikonian since 17th Sep 2010Fri 09-Sep-11 07:48 AM
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#32. "RE: View NX vs. LR, CS5?"
In response to Reply # 0


Salt Spring Island, CA
          

Steve, as you can see this is a controversial topic with strong feelings on both sides, and good reasoning on both sides . . . and I expect, as new versions come out from both companies, the arguments will swing back and forth as to which is better, Adobe or Nikon. I really like ViewNX2, but it keeps dying on my current Mac and I need a Nikon tech on the phone to tell me what to poke to fix it - sorry, not acceptable in today's market. My photography time is limited and precious to me.

I personally will not be switching back and forth between companies as new SW releases come out, I want to stick with one professional supplier over the long haul to minimize learning curve and surprises. My experience with tech companies is that Adobe will consistently improve their software over time as they are a software company, while Nikon will run hot and cold and never really figure out how to make money from software and so CNX2 development will be chronically under-resourced.

IMO Nikon SW shows brilliance in spots, but will lose in the long run as Nikon is a camera company, not a software company. The D4 body is important to Nikon, CNX2 is not. CS5 is important to Adobe. Until Nikon spin their SW off into a separate, for profit, company which must satisfy its customers, I am sticking with Adobe.

We all have our different, equally valid, viewpoints, but to me it really doesn't matter how or where changes are stored inside my computer, whether in the NEF or in side-cars or in small cracker-jack boxes, as long as they do it reliably . . . but it does matter that Nikon did no advance testing on the Mac Lion release (hello!) and that my ViewNX2 has a habit of crashing . . . while CS5 just gets the job done every day I sit down to use it.

Nikon does not have a cataloguing solution, so you're back to Adobe anyway (or Apple, but that's a whole 'nother set of issues), and you are already up the learning curve on Adobe. Benefit from each company's strengths: Nikon is the best in the world at getting images onto a memory card, Adobe as processing/publishing experts.

tim

  

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