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Subject: "I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2" Previous topic | Next topic
Sockeye Salm Registered since 30th Dec 2004Wed 02-Feb-11 10:36 PM
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"I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
Wed 02-Feb-11 11:15 PM by Sockeye Salm

Anchorage, US
          

I can't seem to make adjustments to a RAW image in ViewNX2 and then transfer that adjusted image to CS5 RAW. The photo opens up but without the adjustments I just made and saved. I would like to use the sharpness slider and D-lighting HS in ViewNX2 and then take that adjusted image to CS5 RAW for further work. I am saving the adjustments but when I open in CS5 those adjustments are gone.

I really like the sharpness slider and D-lighting HS in View NX2 and I can't seem to come close to as good of a job with CS5, with unsharp mask, fill light slider and clarity sliders.

Can I have the best of both worlds somehow?

John

(Sockeye Salm)

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
Robp Gold Member
02nd Feb 2011
1
Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
robsb Platinum Member
03rd Feb 2011
2
Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
walkerr Administrator
03rd Feb 2011
3
     Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
nwcs Silver Member
03rd Feb 2011
4
     Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
robsb Platinum Member
03rd Feb 2011
5
          Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
Sockeye Salm
04th Feb 2011
6
          Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
robsb Platinum Member
04th Feb 2011
7
               Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
walkerr Administrator
04th Feb 2011
10
                    Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
robsb Platinum Member
04th Feb 2011
12
                         Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
walkerr Administrator
04th Feb 2011
13
                              Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
robsb Platinum Member
04th Feb 2011
16
          Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
walkerr Administrator
04th Feb 2011
8
               Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
robsb Platinum Member
04th Feb 2011
11
                    Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
Sockeye Salm
04th Feb 2011
14
                         Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
walkerr Administrator
04th Feb 2011
15
                         Reply message RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2
JES44
07th Feb 2011
17

Robp Gold Member Nikonian since 23rd Oct 2009Wed 02-Feb-11 11:16 PM
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#1. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 0


Gainesville, US
          

The adjustments made by Nikon products (VNX2 & CNX2) are their proprietary code additions to the RAW image file which are imbedded in the saved NEF file, but cannot be read by other software. You can save the file as a TIFF image which will bake-in the adjustments and they will then be visible in any other software. You can enhance the image further in CS5 but you can not go back further than the point where you saved the file. A lot of us do this.

Rob Puller
My Nikonians gallery

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Thu 03-Feb-11 12:49 AM
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#2. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu 03-Feb-11 06:50 AM by robsb

San Jose, US
          

EDIT:

John, I just relooked at my response to you below and it sounds insulting and I am sorry as I had not intended it that way. Many people are not aware that you can't process NEF's back and forth between Adobe and Nikon/NIK SW and this question comes up often.I don't normally respond this way, and my face is a bit red.

Repeat after me "The only way to use Adobe Products in a CNX2 flow is to pass 16 bit Tiffs to Adobe". the reason is simple. Adobe made a business decision not to use Nikons available tool kit that would allow it to read maker data in the NEF where all Nikon camera data and Nikon Sw edits are stored. Adobe cannot read any of the Nikon controls that you paid dearly for on your new shinny camera. The best it can do is approximate what the image should look like. So if you make changes to a NEF using NIk/Nikon products the changes are invisible to Adobe. If you open a NEF in Adobe and make changes using their product and then open it in NIK/Nikon SW you will not see any of those changes. So what do you do? You start out in the Nikon Sw do all the edits you can and save the NEF. In CNX2 for example you can now click on "Open With" and Nikon will send a nice 16 bit TIFF over to lets say CS5 and now all of those changes you made in the Nikon product are now in that file. You can now work on the TIFF and add more edits, but you will not be able to change them to back to NEF's. But if you moved your adobe edited TIFF back to CNX2, it would save your TIFF and all new edits in a new NEF for you.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Thu 03-Feb-11 01:35 PM
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#3. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 2
Thu 03-Feb-11 01:41 PM by walkerr

Colorado Springs, US
          

Bob, I think we need to be careful when we cite things like what you mention above. Saying Adobe made a "business decision" to not use the tool kit implies it was all about money. In reality, it would have been a horrible technical decision to use the tool kit as it would have left Lightroom and ACR with poor performance, incredibly different methods of working between different camera brands, and an inconsistent interface. Would LR3 be 64-bit like it is? Nope. There's a reason that Nikon's toolkit hasn't been more popular and people haven't clamored for it. Keep in mind, too, that using the toolkit doesn't mean a file can be opened with it. If it was altered in NX or NX2, you'd be stuck, just as View NX or NX2 is stuck. In addition, Nikon's rendering of raw files is just one way of rendering them. Other products have different, but completely viable ones, too. Personally, I'm thrilled I don't have to mess with Picture Control settings in my camera when I'm out shooting, but I realize that others like doing it.

I agree with you, however, regarding using TIFFs if you want to mix the two workflows. I don't do it often myself, but for those wanting to use NX2 and Photoshop (for more extensive edits, plug-ins, etc.) it's the way to go.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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nwcs Silver Member Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Landscape and Wildlife Photography Nikonian since 15th Jan 2006Thu 03-Feb-11 04:10 PM
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#4. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 3


Knoxville, US
          

To add onto it, and tie it back to the OP...

You can open the TIFF from Nikon's conversion in Camera Raw and make further adjustments. It's not a situation where you can change camera calibration or white balance as if you opened the NEF in Camera Raw but many of the adjustments will work the same. You can tell Photoshop to open all TIFF files in Camera Raw but you'll need to open from Photoshop and not do the Open With command from NX.

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Thu 03-Feb-11 06:05 PM
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#5. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 3


San Jose, US
          

Rick I purposely chose "Business Decision" just for the reasons you stated. Obviously if Adobe is to be a tool usable by all camera users, they had a number of choices, roll their own or use every camera manufacturers RAW converter. Rolling their own-which they did,I believe was a logical business decision because trying to use every camera manufacturers RAW decoders would not only be a costly solution based upon the number of different licenses they would have had to buy, but would have been a programming nightmare. I also used that term because there are often comments made that Nikon is keeping their data secret, and Nikon should make it available to Adobe, yet if you buy the kit you have access. It therefore is not an Adobe/Nikon issue, but rather one that each company chooses the solution that maximizes their company goals.

I also believe there is an amazing amount of confusion out there as to what you can and cannot do with the tools available and also what the real limitations are. Clearly Adobe is the 1000 lb Gorilla in the room having been in business for a very long time, but they started out as an illustrators tool with Photoshop and I think for most photo hobbyists was overkill. LR is popular for a number of reasons, mainly because it is photographer centric. I used and still use Photoshop since CS and do use a CNX2 centric work flow so when I need the extra power of PS, I work in a 16 bit TIFF environment. When I first started using CNX2 and saw so many posts where people had no clue as to what CNX2 could do and do easily, I was one of the ones who lobbied for the separate forum. People were not even aware of the most basic capabilities of CNX2 and were often moving files from CNX2 to Photoshop long before they needed to because they didn't know that what they wanted to accomplish could be easily done in CNX2. Inputs from you, Jason and others helped clear that up and this separate forum allowed us to discuss the power of CNX2 and its limitations in detail. Clearly the amount of tutorials for Adobe Products overwhelms CNX2 and most of the CNX2 data is for basic stuff. very few go deeply into the use of the added features of the pull downs like the Optimizer which we have been discussing here lately. In the end I have always told people it was a personal decision as to what tools you used, but that I thought CNX2 was easier to learn, having spent many years and hours learning the esoteric stuff in Photoshop. Unfortunately, many people, most of whom have never had a darkroom or for that matter never shot film, do not fully understand the process of post processing. Too many books out there are cook books that don't go into the whys and the needs of various tools, so the understanding of what is needed to fix an image does not sit on a solid base. So there seems to be a tendency to just jump in and fiddle with a few sliders, not understanding what they do, and often twiddling a good image into an awful mess. I think the people who show up here have a real desire to learn how to use the tools better and also to get the most out of their tool of choice.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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Sockeye Salm Registered since 30th Dec 2004Fri 04-Feb-11 01:10 AM
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#6. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 5


Anchorage, US
          

Thanks for the replies guys. I've experimented with converting files after adjustments in ViewNX2, and it works great. View NX2 is a bit slow, but I'm dealing with it. Once I make adjustments in NX2 it takes a good 60 seconds or more to save WTF?, and then another 60 seconds to convert to a tif, 20 seconds to convert to a JPEG. I'm still experimenting though, so maybe I can speed this up, like reducing file size if I don't need it.

John

(Sockeye Salm)

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Fri 04-Feb-11 02:38 AM
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#7. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 6


San Jose, US
          

John I don't use View NX2 to process images other than to sort and rank, I use CNX2 and therefore cannot comment on the speed you are seeing, but it seems excessively long. So lets go through a few simple questions to see if we can help you. What is your computer configuration and Operating system? If you have less than 2 GB of RAM you need to upgrade it. IS it a desktop or laptop? If you have a desktop, you should assign a different drive from your boot drive as your scratch disk, as it will speed up things. Remember when you are saving edits in View NX2 or CNX2 you are working directly with and saving the RAW file and the edits back into the NEF. The Adobe products to not do that. They save everything off to what is called a sidecar, so you cannot go directly back to the original file like you can in CNX2 or VNX2 and redo everything. As for saving TIFF's these are huge files and will take awhile to create and save, but again you system seems slow.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Fri 04-Feb-11 04:04 AM
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#10. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 7


Colorado Springs, US
          


>to not do that. They save everything off to what is called a
>sidecar, so you cannot go directly back to the original file
>like you can in CNX2 or VNX2 and redo everything.

I suspect you mean that if you save out a TIFF from NX2, you can't revert back to the raw file without going back to the original file using NX2 (or something else). You can certainly revert back to the original rendition of the file in Adobe products - you hit "reset". You can also revert back to the original raw rendition within a TIFF or PSD if you use the smart object approach in Photoshop. You can update it to your heart's content and have plug-ins, adjustment layers, etc. automatically update based on that updated raw conversion.

Incidentally, Adobe products use more than sidecars. They also offer the option of storing the edits in a central database or written into the files directly if you use a DNG format. It's your choice as to what you prefer.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Fri 04-Feb-11 05:45 AM
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#12. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 10


San Jose, US
          

You are correct I misspoke. Of course you can make files that are essentially non-destructive of you use Smart Layers and Objects in Photoshop. If you save out a TIFF from CNX2 you have both the edited RAW and the processed TIFF at that point. If you wanted to do more edits to the NEF, you can just open it and do what you will including taking it back to the original unedited version. If, however, you take the TIFF produced by CNX2 and now edit that TIFF in Photoshop and then move the flattened TIFF file back to CNX2 and do more edits, you can save that TIFF plus the new edits into a new NEF, which you could again edit in the future, but not the TIFF. If you now wanted to re-edit the TIFF,what you would do would depend if you made edits outside CNX2 or not. If you did additional edits in PS, you would have had to save an un-flattened copy of the TIFF and go back to Photoshop to fix it. If you did not make TIFF edits in PS but only had a flattened TIFF from CNX2 you would have to go to the NEF you made it from to edit again. I was mixing two thoughts in the sentence I wrote in the post, because I was trying to say all edits in CNX2 are non destructive but that may not be the case in the Adobe product as some steps are destructive unless you make them smart Objects or Layers. I also agree that Adobe does use more methods than sidecars including DING and the Central Data Base, but I have never found that to be more appealing than having it all in one place in the NEF

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Fri 04-Feb-11 12:15 PM
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#13. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 12


Colorado Springs, US
          

Bob, not to belabor the point, but you can make a huge number of edits non-destructively in the Adobe products as well, both the raw edits, as well as edits against a TIFF in Photoshop. Can some edits be destructive in the Adobe products? Yes, but those include ones not available in NX2. Finally, the DNG approach places the edits inside the file, along with a jpeg preview of the image (provided you want it to do so - you have options). No sidecars in that situation. Sound familiar?

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Fri 04-Feb-11 11:49 PM
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#16. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 13


San Jose, US
          

Rick there was a big discussion on this a few weeks ago, and while everyone agreed that what you just said was possible and of course it is, most of us here would still rather work with the NEF alone. But for the purpose of completeness your points are well taken.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Fri 04-Feb-11 03:32 AM
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#8. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 5


Colorado Springs, US
          

Okay, Bob, I just want to make sure we don't mislead people as to the reasons certain decisions were made. It was more than just maximizing company goals - it's also delivering something that works and can be maintained over time.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Fri 04-Feb-11 05:25 AM
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#11. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 8


San Jose, US
          

Agreed!

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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Sockeye Salm Registered since 30th Dec 2004Fri 04-Feb-11 06:39 PM
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#14. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 11


Anchorage, US
          

I have a Dell Inspiron 9200 laptop with 1 GB RAM. I just ordered an upgrade so I will have 2 GB. That's the max for this computer.

Thanks for the help.

John

(Sockeye Salm)

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Fri 04-Feb-11 08:57 PM
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#15. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 14


Colorado Springs, US
          

That should be a considerable help. Most people find the increase from 1 to 2GB provides a significant improvement in performance with most imaging applications, including this one.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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JES44 Registered since 19th Feb 2007Mon 07-Feb-11 01:58 PM
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#17. "RE: I can't go to CS5 RAW from ViewNX2"
In response to Reply # 14


Tampa, US
          

My former laptop was running Windows XP 32-bit with 1GB of RAM and Capture NX2 was slow. The new one runs Win 7 64-bit with 4GB RAM and NX2 is very fast. Things happen about instantaneously. NX2 needs plenty of space to work in.

Jim in Tampa

Visit my PBase gallery.

  

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