Go to a  "printer friendly" view of this message which allow an easy print Printer-friendly copy Go to the page which allows you to send this topic link and a message to a friend Email this topic to a friend
Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) Nikon & Nikonians Imaging Software (Public) topic #2633
View in linear mode

Subject: "Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8" Previous topic | Next topic
pavelho Registered since 27th May 2010Sat 19-Jun-10 09:58 PM
21 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
"Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"


Möllersdorf (NÖ), AT
          

Hi everyone,

I'm very new here and got my D700 toy just about a week ago. I've got PSE 8.0 since a while, and can do some stuff with it already. Capture NX 2, which I got on the CD with my D700 confuses me - do I really need it? Looks like it has few Adjustment options specific to D700. I'm sure this question has been discussed here many times, I just was not lucky to find it. Any hint on how to move on here?

For me Capture NX2 - $200 thing - brings me to idea to upgrade to PS Lightroom, which would cost around the same, but probably can do a lot more for me. I just do not want to do anything stupid, ignoring or overseeing something unique and critical about Capture NX 2, just because I'm too new to this 'very new world'

Thanks for any hint/links.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
greyface Gold Member
19th Jun 2010
1
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
pavelho
20th Jun 2010
4
     Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
greyface Gold Member
20th Jun 2010
5
          Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
pavelho
21st Jun 2010
12
               Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
greyface Gold Member
22nd Jun 2010
23
                    Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
pavelho
22nd Jun 2010
24
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
robsb Platinum Member
20th Jun 2010
2
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
pavelho
20th Jun 2010
3
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
robsb Platinum Member
21st Jun 2010
7
     Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
pavelho
21st Jun 2010
13
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
bounce Gold Member
24th Jun 2010
30
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
agitater Gold Member
21st Jun 2010
6
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
robsb Platinum Member
21st Jun 2010
8
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
agitater Gold Member
21st Jun 2010
9
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
sevtcard Silver Member
24th Jun 2010
28
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
rjo Silver Member
29th Jun 2010
36
     Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
sevtcard Silver Member
29th Jun 2010
39
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
agitater Gold Member
21st Jun 2010
15
     Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
robsb Platinum Member
22nd Jun 2010
19
     Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
robsb Platinum Member
22nd Jun 2010
20
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
pavelho
21st Jun 2010
14
     Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
agitater Gold Member
21st Jun 2010
16
          Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
greyface Gold Member
24th Jun 2010
29
               Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
agitater Gold Member
24th Jun 2010
31
               Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
greyface Gold Member
26th Jun 2010
34
               Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
Robp Gold Member
24th Jun 2010
32
                    Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
cliddell Silver Member
25th Jun 2010
33
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
TomCurious
21st Jun 2010
10
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
pavelho
21st Jun 2010
17
     Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
TomCurious
22nd Jun 2010
22
          Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
pavelho
22nd Jun 2010
25
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
wcfalcon Silver Member
21st Jun 2010
11
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
pavelho
21st Jun 2010
18
     Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
Robp Gold Member
22nd Jun 2010
21
          Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
pavelho
22nd Jun 2010
26
               Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
Robp Gold Member
23rd Jun 2010
27
               Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
robsb Platinum Member
26th Jun 2010
35
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
vindex1963
29th Jun 2010
37
Reply message RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8
Garry Fuller Silver Member
29th Jun 2010
38

greyface Gold Member Nikonian since 30th Jul 2008Sat 19-Jun-10 11:21 PM
1483 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#1. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 0


New Bedford, US
          

Welcome to the Nikonians

I would say it depends on what your post processing needs are. A lot have both programs since one program does not do everything. I have been using NX2 for a while and am very happy with it being able to read the camera settings, I shoot RAW format. I also love the U point technology adjusting color and setting control points. NX2 does not do layers, photoshop does. To add to the mix, a lot of people use LR2 or the new LR3 to organize and archive their images. I have CS4 for some plugins that will not work in NX2 and the occasional use of layers.
There are, I believe, 30 day downloads of those NX2 ans LR. Try them out and see what works best for you.
The Master Your Tools forum is the place to find info and ask questions about specific programs.

-------------------
"On no account allow a Vogon to read poetry at you." - The Hitchhikers Guide

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
pavelho Registered since 27th May 2010Sun 20-Jun-10 07:37 PM
21 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#4. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 1


Möllersdorf (NÖ), AT
          

Hi Bob, many thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I use PSE also for the Catalogue, and it's really a great thing. Before I went digital some 10 years ago, I produced 65 cases (300 in each) of slides, and another 45.000 digital shots since then. Already the PSE catalogue does all I need. As I don't know the difference between PSE 8.0 and LR3, will have to figure out, if Catalogue would be the reason to move from PSE to LR. Despite of having my D700 just for a week, few first tests clearly showed that there is no option for NEF, despite of the awful size. Yes, I see it, there are multiple dimensions to explore, before I can ever possibly figure out.
Many thanks for your response.

By the way, looking at your list of lenses, I'm jalous :-) I've ordered the Nikkor 50mm/1,4G with Amazon on Friday ... the 35-70mm/2,8D lenses I got are quite old, still do reasonably well as starter lenses to learn with ... having what you got, what would you recomend as next lenses for me to look at ?

Best regards Pavel

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
greyface Gold Member Nikonian since 30th Jul 2008Sun 20-Jun-10 10:16 PM
1483 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#5. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 4


New Bedford, US
          

Hi Pavel,
>By the way, looking at your list of lenses, I'm jalous
>I've ordered the Nikkor 50mm/1,4G with Amazon on Friday ...
>the 35-70mm/2,8D lenses I got are quite old, still do
>reasonably well as starter lenses to learn with ... having
>what you got, what would you recomend as next lenses for me to
>look at ?

It all depends on what you will be shooting. The Nikon lenses I have are expensive and am still making payments. With the new 16-35 f4 out I have noticed some used 17-35 f2.8 for sale. I you like shooting with prime lenses, you might want something wider than the 50mm. I love the 24-70 f2.8, but it is pricy.
Check the I Want to Sell forums. I got a good deal on a used 80-400 last year.

> I produced 65 cases (300 in each) of slides, and another 45.000 digital shots since then.

That makes me feel I should be out shooting a lot more than I do

-------------------
"On no account allow a Vogon to read poetry at you." - The Hitchhikers Guide

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
pavelho Registered since 27th May 2010Mon 21-Jun-10 10:21 PM
21 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#12. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 5


Möllersdorf (NÖ), AT
          

Hi Bob, well, for lenses like 16-35mm it's too early for me, I don't know what I would do with it yet
Yes, I dream of the 24-70mm/F2,8, but it's over €1500 at Amazon ... after having spend over €2000 for the body very recently, would be too much at once. But I was worried when I wrote you yesterday, that you could respond that way ... good to know, even if my wallet would prefer not to know ...

And probably the next to that will be also something you mentioned 80-400 or so, the F2,8 cost over €2000, f..k, but with VR already - resist it, if you can ... they give us so many really good reasons to spend money, awful.

Before going that far, I'll test number of the F3,5-... lenses too, to make sure that it really has to be a F2,8 ... will see.

Yes, I do some shots from time to time. We did a lot of travelling before having kids, and now since the kids are here, they offer lots of great motives too ... so 4000 to 6000 shots a year are easy to do ... but now with the RAW/NEFs, storage is becoming an urgent issue ... hardly anybody on this planet works as hard against the recesion as new Nikonians do (I say to my wife: have to do)! Right?

Pavel

Obstacles are what you see when you take your eyes off the goal.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
greyface Gold Member Nikonian since 30th Jul 2008Tue 22-Jun-10 05:28 AM
1483 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#23. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 12


New Bedford, US
          

Hi Pavel,
The used 80-400 I got last year is the f4.5/5.6, I wish it was f2.8
I will not even discuss the new 200-400 f4. It costs more than my D700 and 70-200 f2.8 VR II combined.

One of the things I like about the D700 is being able to boost the ISO if I am using a slower lens or need a faster shutter speed.

-------------------
"On no account allow a Vogon to read poetry at you." - The Hitchhikers Guide

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
pavelho Registered since 27th May 2010Tue 22-Jun-10 07:22 PM
21 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#24. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 23
Tue 22-Jun-10 07:44 PM by pavelho

Möllersdorf (NÖ), AT
          

Hi Bob,

exactly, this is how I do it most of the times - M, setting apperture/stop and shutter, and having Auto ISO to see what it does. In same cases, of course, setting also ISO to a specific value and playing with apperture and shutter to get there, depends on situation/motive. But that's the great think about it, you got all the freedom, it does what you want.

After many years with Velvia 50, Kodak professional ISO 100, max. 200 films and very often with tripoid, I just ignored digital photography for ages. Or better to say I did not take it seriously. With Velvia 50, despite of the high saturation, I could stend up from my chair, get closer to the screen and see further details, which I have not seen while sitting. I got Leica projector. So yes, pixels are important to me, sa well as colors. To get the number of pixels/inch comparable to grains is a distant future, so why to bother, that was my view. In fact the Casio EX-H10, which I got late last year was the forth one of that sort, any very often, the shots are good, some even great, just the way you can managed is near to zero - not more then the release. And having D700 now, even the best shots can#t compare. So my idea was to use it mainly to produce photos of the kids for web. But in fact I stopped film photography around that time, so in fact, these toys replaced it for a long time. Now with D700, I think is starts again. Once they resolve all the light dispersion issues and will get to 50 to 80Mpix, I'll upgrade. For the next epoche, D700 offers enough to get back to photography, and have some fun with it again.

Pavel

Obstacles are what you see when you take your eyes off the goal.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Sun 20-Jun-10 03:28 AM
12572 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#2. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 0


San Jose, US
          

This question really belongs in the NX2 forum, where it has been discussed at lenght, but you have already received good advice. NX2 does not do layers, but generally it does not need them. Except for situations were you are blending two different images in photoshop where you need layers or if you are doing HDR and PANO's were you need layers, the other uses of layers is to keep edits from making distructive changes to an image, so in photoshop you add filters on a layer, do curve adjustments on a layer, add a mask, etc. What this does is make your file bigger and the real problem is you are saving these changes in a side car file. NX2 on the otherhand does not need layers because all edits are non distructive and it does masks almost automatically in a way that would take a lot of effort in Photoshop. All of the edit steps used working on a RAW file are independent and can be deleted or changed at any time in the future. All of your camera settings are saved and can be changed after the fact. All changes are saved right in the NEF and the file is much smaller than an Adobe file. So you can see I prefer NX2 despite the fact that I am an advanced user of CS5 extended and own it too. But to answer your question "...do I really need it?" No. You can get by with the other post processors and some even prefer them for other reasons than getting the best possible image right out of the camera, which I believe is best done by NX2. It really boils down to what you like to use and how much work you are willing to put in learning the tool you want. NX2 I think is the easiest to learn and get professional results. Photoshop CS5 is like a Swiss Army Knife, more tools than you will most likely ever use but very powerful. So take some time to really try out the versions you have and in the case of NX2 make sure you apply all the updates at the Nikon site, because your CD is actually out of date. But do look deep into the versions and don't be thrown by the fact that interfaces are different. There are very dramatic differences between PS, LR and NX2 that are very significant and only you can decide which one works best for you.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
pavelho Registered since 27th May 2010Sun 20-Jun-10 07:15 PM
21 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#3. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 2


Möllersdorf (NÖ), AT
          

Hi Bob,

many, many thanks for your extensive response. Yes, I do use layers, a great way to do experiments in PSE, every parameter modification at a different layer and then to play with switching them off and on, to see what change it produces in combination with the other changes ... Yes, I'll have to decide, as I don't want to invest into 2 or 3 SWs ... of anything more then 1 is too much :-) for me ... woman, camera, SW :-). I do landscapes, Alps panoramas, portraits, macro, collages, ... and also Capture NX2 sounds to me like, I can reset all changes, if I want, but this also means to start from beginning, if I get something, what I do not like any more ... will have to review it for 'undo' - how many steps can I go back. I'd prefer a simple tool for fast fixes, and also the size of the file is a valid argument. At the moment what I miss is the confidence that LR and NX2 can do the same edits ... when I look to NX2 'Edit list', the list of options looks quite different to what PSE NEF import plugin offers. And yes, you are right, I worry that after all the adjustments and changes, I'll have to save/convert it to some format. Probably not too bad for playing with few selected shots, but probably a horror when adjusting many ... Yes, you're right, will have to invest quite some time to figure out ... in fact I like View NX, pitty is that the options for correction are that limited. However having those in Capture NX2 is still no guarantee for Nikon to get my $200 ... will think twice, for sure. My guts are telling me to put my energy on exploring LR, so will have to see if small things can be done easily and quick there.

Once again, many thanks for your perspective.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Mon 21-Jun-10 03:16 AM
12572 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#7. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 3


San Jose, US
          

"...and also Capture NX2 sounds to me like, I can reset all changes, if I want, but this also means to start from beginning, if I get something, what I do not like any more..."

Actually the advantage of NX2 over Photoshop is you do not have to start all over. Each edit step can be changed or deleted by itself. It's impact on other changes will just be adjusted on processing. The only current plug ins for NX2 are NIK Color Effects Pro, which are well integrated in NX2 since NIK contributes to NX2 with Nikon. The real power is ANY edit step can be applied selectively at any time. Most people are put off by the interface because they are used to Adobe products, but I don't find Adobe any more intuitive than NX2 in fact I think once you understand the interface, NX2 is much easier to use. Believe me, I can do anything I want in Photoshop and often it is the only tool that can do some things, but for day to day photo editing, it is simpler and easier to get pro results from NX2 than Photoshop or I would not have gravitated to it. I expect the next version to be a huge improvement and hope it is 64 bit as well. Remember early versions of Photoshop were not that great either.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
pavelho Registered since 27th May 2010Mon 21-Jun-10 10:45 PM
21 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#13. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 7


Möllersdorf (NÖ), AT
          

Hi Bob, well, I think, I'm getting your point, and in addition to what Howard writes, and I think he is really right, the PSE can do unbelievably much, in fact, so far the only feauture I missed upto a certain extend was the workflow and more options for stitching panoramas. And the 30.000 pixels limit, that one a really hate. I love Alps panorama, and this was one of the reasons, why I had to move to something like D700. But for hobbist like me, PSE 8.0 is great. And I love layers, very essential feature for me, not just for pano, but for any corrections and experiments. PSE 8.0 supports layers. But to do a quick re-touch, maybe just one or two parameters per shot CNX2 seems to be a lot quicker, directer, no conversions, just saving, and going to the next one. Every click more counts when it comes to dozens or hunderts, and your queue is long, and you have number of other thing to do as well -- here I'm afraight, PSE gives me no way to achieve it with less clicks. I do not intent to polish every shot, but when it can be done quickly, why not to re-touch, if needed. The discussion here brings me, for me to an unexpected feeling that I might well stay with PSE, just add CNX2 to it. Initially looked to me like probably one of the last options to think ever about. Interesting. Thank you for taking time to share your perspective, I like your conversation with Howard too

Pavel

Obstacles are what you see when you take your eyes off the goal.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
bounce Gold Member Nikonian since 16th Jan 2009Thu 24-Jun-10 09:00 AM
35 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#30. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 2


surrey, CA
          

hi bob
probably missed it when i looked. where is the NX2 forum
bounce

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Mon 21-Jun-10 12:13 AM
3958 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 0


Toronto, CA
          

The biggest problem with NX2 is that the user interface and the interoperability of features and functions are difficult to intuitively use. For many, many people, NX2 requires regular use over comparatively long periods of time in order to make themselves familiar (and more important) skilled/facile with the software. Far too many people simply don't have the time to repeatedly climb the needlessly difficult learning curve needed to take advantage of the good things NX2 has to offer. Nikon (and the software maker) should be roundly ashamed of themselves.

Photoshop Elements 8, on the other hand, is easily the best value on the market today IMO (with the possible exception of ACDSee Pro). Adobe continues to pack an enormous amount of power into Elements, and additionally makes it easy to ramp over to Lightroom or Photoshop if needed. But at v8, it's difficult to see why any amateur photographer would need anything besides Elements. RAW handling in Elements 8 is every bit as robust as Lightroom and NX2. Adobe's NEF/RAW handling is different in its approach to color management and a variety of other things. Some people like images produced by Elements/Photoshop/Lightroom best; others prefer NX2 or ACDSee or Bibble Pro or Xara Xtreme Pro or Aperture (for Mac) and so on. All of them are easier to learn than NX2 IMO.

Elements 8 and ACDSee Pro provide just as much power for JPG editing as they do for NEF/RAW processing - remarkable when you think about it. ACDSee Pro's light EQ is scary good, as are its Levels controls. The best thing NX2 has going for it, again IMO, is U-Point. The need for the sort of control provided by u-point functionality is not something I require, so it's of no value to me.

Elements 8 provides just as much metadata/EXIF data as other software on the market. Just leave the Properties window open in Organizer.

My Nikonians Gallery

Howard Carson, Managing Editor
Kickstartnews Inc. - http://www.kickstartnews.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Mon 21-Jun-10 03:28 AM
12572 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#8. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 6


San Jose, US
          

"...NX2 requires regular use over comparatively long periods of time in order to make themselves familiar (and more important) skilled/facile with the software. Far too many people simply don't have the time to repeatedly climb the needlessly difficult learning curve needed to take advantage of the good things NX2 has to offer..."

Howard I could not disagree with you more. I have years invested in Photoshop and really know my way around it, but comparing learning curves (which by the way people, in error, say steep learing curves which in fact by learning curve theory means it is easier to do somthing than harder, it should be long learning curve)between Photoshop and NX2 I picked up all I needed in a few hours of effort in NX2 compared to months and years in Photoshop. That is because Photoshop is much more complex and to use all the featues takes both time and skill to master. Most people I know who consider themselves Photoshop experts, never have used LAB, do not know what "Apply Image" does, and don't know about blending. NX2 also solves the most difficult task in post processing-masks. I can get excellent detailed masks in NX2 with 2 clicks of a mouse where it might take me from minutes to hours to get a similar result depending on the subject. I have never used Elements, so I cannot comment on its use. I know that earlier versions did not use layers, but I understand the newer versions do, but do they do 16 bit editing now? I know they did not before. NX2 does. I would agree that for many people Photoshop is overkill both in need and cost, but I do not think that is true for NX2.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Mon 21-Jun-10 11:12 AM
3958 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#9. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 8


Toronto, CA
          

>Most people I know who
>consider themselves Photoshop experts, never have used LAB, do
>not know what "Apply Image" does, and don't know
>about blending. NX2 also solves the most difficult task in
>post processing-masks. I can get excellent detailed masks in
>NX2 with 2 clicks of a mouse where it might take me from
>minutes to hours to get a similar result depending on the
>subject. I have never used Elements, so I cannot comment on
>its use. I know that earlier versions did not use layers, but
>I understand the newer versions do, but do they do 16 bit
>editing now? I know they did not before. NX2 does. I would
>agree that for many people Photoshop is overkill both in need
>and cost, but I do not think that is true for NX2.

I'm not saying NX2 is weak - far from it. I'm also not the only the one complaining about how difficult it can be for many people to learn enough about NX2 to use it effectively. Even Mr. Nikon Legend and NX2 evangelist and Photoshop World Dream Team Member himself, Vincent Versace, has conceded in interviews - listen to his NX2 discussion with Scott Sheppard in a podcast recorded last year - that NX2 needs a serious UI overhaul in order to make it more accessible to the majority of amateur and professional photographers.

I've also read posts from a number of Nikonians in these forums who've extolled the virtues of NX2 and its ease of use, but they're by far in the minority. NX2 is not golden just because it arrives in a box with a Nikon logo. NX2 needs work - a lot of it. After reviewing literally dozens of photo editing packages for Kickstartnews.com and many other publications, I can't see any reason for anyone who is struggling with NX2 to stick with it. There are great alternatives - better ones too. NX2, IMO, needs a major UI and interoperability overhaul. Until it gets one I'm going to continue to recommend Elements 8, ACDSee Pro, Lightroom and Aperture. When Capture NX is successfully overhauled, I'll be an early adopter because I genuinely prefer something as close as possible to what I hope is a native NEF solution. Maybe NX3?

My Nikonians Gallery

Howard Carson, Managing Editor
Kickstartnews Inc. - http://www.kickstartnews.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
sevtcard Silver Member Nikonian since 05th Mar 2009Thu 24-Jun-10 03:23 AM
327 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#28. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 9
Thu 24-Jun-10 03:27 AM by sevtcard

Brattleboro, US
          

i think this proves the point that UI is i (idiosyncratic), depending upon the user. i agree with Bob - i picked up NX and was off and running in no time. as with many programs, it probably has more to do with what you're accustomed to, as far as interface, and how you've set up your workflow (MACS hate PC and vice verse - they're really about the same - uh oh, i hear an avalanche of disagreement rolling down the opinion mountain -)...people generally prefer the status quo ante and don't like change. versace's comments are good for him, but not necessarily for all of us, which might be a minority or a majority...as far as who complains in posts, it's the unhappy ones...a well known principle in marketing - the silent majority are, in fact, silent...there are clearly problems with the engine, it is very buggy...which can be frustrating and about which i have complained loudly - but beyond that issue, which, i admit can be a deal breaker for some, the program is powerful and easy to use.
Mark
www.broadwallphotography.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
rjo Silver Member Nikonian since 05th Apr 2008Tue 29-Jun-10 05:14 PM
68 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#36. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 9


Atlanta, US
          

Let me just jump in to say that, when I moved to digital, I had Photoshop 5 installed, and tried using it. I found nothing intuitive about Photoshop, at all; I now have CS4 installed, and it doesn't change my opinion at all. I can't even get one photo out of it.

I believe if you are already comfortable with editing your images on a computer, and with layers and masks, Photoshop will probably work better. For me, it didn't work at all. After weeks of struggling, I installed Capture NX, and it was so intuitive I used it for two years before picking up a book about it.

Like in everything, the truth is in the eye of the beholder, and I know software tastes tend to be very particular. But for someone who is experienced with the concepts of layers, masks and curves, Photoshop is probably the only choice to make. For those of us who don't understand what those are, NX2 is far easier to learn.

Not to say it's gold; it needs to be more robust, that's for sure. But three years into digital, it's still the one I turn to.

RJO

Nikon nut since 1968.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
sevtcard Silver Member Nikonian since 05th Mar 2009Tue 29-Jun-10 10:51 PM
327 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#39. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 36
Wed 30-Jun-10 10:44 AM by sevtcard

Brattleboro, US
          

the gui is cosmetic - the interface is just that - it connects the user with the bare bones....it's mostly just prettier, and, admittedly, in many situations helpful...cnx is a powerful program, sadly also full of powerful bugs...but really quite easy to use, if you are adaptable, or if your personality is suited to it...personally, i find cs4/5 a bit too complex to get to the outcome i want (mostly because i spend more time with cnx)...consequently, i don't use it...and cnx's ability to work with nef is not quite equaled by cs4/5 (this, seems to be a matter of opinion, based upon recent posts). in the end, no matter how conjectural or vehement, it's really academic in the end - on the par of the argument of which is better, nikon vs canon or pc vs mac...take your pick they're all good....one just needs a perspective....
mark
PS Bob (robsb) enjoy your travels...
www.broadwallphotography.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Mon 21-Jun-10 11:09 PM
3958 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#15. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 8
Mon 21-Jun-10 11:10 PM by agitater

Toronto, CA
          

>I have years
>invested in Photoshop and really know my way around it, but
>comparing learning curves (which by the way people, in error,
>say steep learing curves which in fact by learning curve
>theory means it is easier to do somthing than harder, it
>should be long learning curve)between Photoshop and NX2 I
>picked up all I needed in a few hours of effort in NX2
>compared to months and years in Photoshop. That is because
>Photoshop is much more complex and to use all the featues
>takes both time and skill to master. Most people I know who
>consider themselves Photoshop experts, never have used LAB, do
>not know what "Apply Image" does, and don't know
>about blending.

I work regularly with a couple of notable Photoshop graphic artists and graphic designers in different places around the world - Mario Georgiou (a design Lead and the brand guardian at Harrod's) among other greater and lesser lights. They all agree with you that far too many people profess to "know Photoshop" but in fact do not.

The problem, I think, has more to do with the manner in which so much productivity software is pitched to consumers: Easy to Use! Intuitive! Anybody Can Use It and Get Great Results Instantly! and on and on. Photoshop is certainly not pitched that way, but the bleed-over from consumer software marketing, the pressure brought inadvertently by pros who automatically reach for PS and talk about their work in terms of a PS workflow, and the lack of any real sense that PS must be learned initially through classroom/seminar/coursework in order to get the most out of it all conspire to lead too many people to the software.

The flip side of the Photoshop coin, for me, was the opposite extreme from 1995 through 2001. During the course of hiring more than a dozen different graphics artists at MGI Software (PhotoSuite, VideoWave, LivePicture, and lots of other stuff sold off for tens of millions of dollars) I encountered some tough problems. I was Director of Product Creative Services and also led the special products group. Over several years, I repeatedly encountered far too many graphic artists who'd been thoroughly taught Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark, Pagemaker (and InDesign), etc., etc., but lacked any foundational knowledge of art history and all of the related grounding needed to cultivate and nurture creative depth. It was a struggle.

NX2 remains powerful, but it's wholly opaque usability puts it out of range for me. I just don't have time in my life to spend on it. In fact, I'm envious of your easy use of NX2.

My Nikonians Gallery

Howard Carson, Managing Editor
Kickstartnews Inc. - http://www.kickstartnews.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Tue 22-Jun-10 12:27 AM
12572 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#19. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 15


San Jose, US
          

HOWARD
This will be short as I am using my phone. I agree the interface needs improvement but am convinced people complain simply because it is not anAdobe interface. A few minutes looking at Nikon's tutorials on line can give you enough data to do simple edits. It is not rocket science.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Tue 22-Jun-10 12:27 AM
12572 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#20. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 15


San Jose, US
          

HOWARD
This will be short as I am using my phone. I agree the interface needs improvement but am convinced people complain simply because it is not anAdobe interface. A few minutes looking at Nikon's tutorials on line can give you enough data to do simple edits. It is not rocket science.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
pavelho Registered since 27th May 2010Mon 21-Jun-10 11:02 PM
21 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#14. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 6
Mon 21-Jun-10 11:04 PM by pavelho

Möllersdorf (NÖ), AT
          

Hi Howard, I could not agree more. What you describe is exactly why I raised the question here. CNX2 is not a SW, which you just open and can work with it. Despite PSE is a lot complexer tool, I could do so right from the beginning. Of course I needed more help for more sophisticated stuff, but was able to figure out a lot on my own. After playing for few days with CNX2, I'm still not sure if I'm already getting the basics, and where I'm in terms of understanding of what all it offers and can do ... feel still very lost. Probably will have to do what I hate - read the manual .

On the other side, your response here makes it even more difficult to decide (in case I got only 200 bugs) on what to spend my money. My initial thought of putting it on upgrade from PSE8 to LR you shake by confirming me that PSE is really a great tool. On the other side not sure if you would suggest to put it on CNX2 either. But to do just one or two corrections on a RAW, and then just wanting to quickly move on, PSE8 forces me to quite some clicks too, it's not that straight forward as with JPEGs. And this I sorted fairly quickly for me, on D700 JPEG is no option, the only real choice you got is NEF. Was a surprise to me as well, but can't do much about it.

Probably there is no option unless I crack CNX2 and figure out what it can and can't do ... initially (based on my first experiences with CNX2) I would not have thought, that this could be a plausible path to go ... was nearly sure, that CNX2 would get off the list fairly quickly -- the GUI is really strange, must have been written by some other people, nothing I recognize or easily can align to or follow. I can't agree more with you - just awful.

Many thanks for sharing your views and not giving up with Bob

Pavel

Obstacles are what you see when you take your eyes off the goal.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Mon 21-Jun-10 11:14 PM
3958 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#16. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 14


Toronto, CA
          

>Probably there is no option unless I crack CNX2 and figure out
>what it can and can't do ... initially (based on my first
>experiences with CNX2) I would not have thought, that this
>could be a plausible path to go ... was nearly sure, that CNX2
>would get off the list fairly quickly -- the GUI is really
>strange, must have been written by some other people, nothing
>I recognize or easily can align to or follow. I can't agree
>more with you - just awful.
>
>Many thanks for sharing your views and not giving up with Bob
>

You're welcome. But I'm envious of Bob's (and other Nikonians') easy and intuitive use of NX2. They're in the minority and I wish I was too. I refuse to make time to learn NX2 - I'm too busy. The software has to come to me.

My Nikonians Gallery

Howard Carson, Managing Editor
Kickstartnews Inc. - http://www.kickstartnews.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
greyface Gold Member Nikonian since 30th Jul 2008Thu 24-Jun-10 04:58 AM
1483 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#29. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 16


New Bedford, US
          

>But I'm envious of Bob's (and other
>Nikonians') easy and intuitive use of NX2. They're in the
>minority and I wish I was too. I refuse to make time to learn
>NX2 - I'm too busy. The software has to come to me.

How much time did you spend learning to use Photoshop? Did you find it easy and intuitive?

-------------------
"On no account allow a Vogon to read poetry at you." - The Hitchhikers Guide

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Thu 24-Jun-10 01:00 PM
3958 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#31. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 29


Toronto, CA
          

>>But I'm envious of Bob's (and other
>>Nikonians') easy and intuitive use of NX2. They're in the
>>minority and I wish I was too. I refuse to make time to
>learn
>>NX2 - I'm too busy. The software has to come to me.
>
>How much time did you spend learning to use Photoshop? Did you
>find it easy and intuitive?

Great question I think. Photoshop v2 was a real piece of junk at the time - powerful, but burdened with a UI and functionality which was a programmer's concoction but a graphic artist's/designer's horror (to get to know). There was nothing else like it at the time though, and that's really the main point. Software user interface design was in its infancy. There were combinations of other software tools which summed up to Photoshop functionality at the time, but Corel Draw and other off-platform tools were buggy disasters (even buggier than the Mac version of Photoshop). Dedicated people (almost all pros) struggled then because there was no other choice. Consumers and amateur users were a tiny minority of Photoshop users. Now there is a lot of choice.

My point is that I can't compare software experiences from almost 20 years ago to the depth and variety available today (except for UI throwbacks such as NX2). Nor can I compare the awful user interface designs and disjointed, inconsistent tool integration of 20 years ago with the vastly better products available today except for, IMO, a handful of products such as NX2 which costs a lot of money for something that is demonstrably buggy and burdened with a far less than stellar UI.

I'm being deliberately undiplomatic about and very hard on NX2 because I think Nikon (and many other hardware companies) generally do a terrible job of making important software components. Rather than making excuses for NX2 (or time for it - I purchased a copy rather than begging for a free license for review on Kickstartnews.com - I wanted my own native Nikon NEF processing tool), I'm demanding it be made better, essentially accessible, easier to use and notably less expensive for the majority of Nikon NEF shooters who (after spending so much money on their hardware) deserve access to a native NEF processor that is top-notch in all respects.

My Nikonians Gallery

Howard Carson, Managing Editor
Kickstartnews Inc. - http://www.kickstartnews.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
greyface Gold Member Nikonian since 30th Jul 2008Sat 26-Jun-10 08:00 PM
1483 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#34. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 31


New Bedford, US
          

I found the learning curve for Photoshop somewhat steeper than with LR and NX. I say this because Photoshop has more features than the other 2 programs.

Speaking for myself, Photoshop has a lot of features that I will not be using. So why do I have CS4? I have plugins that will not work in NX2. I want to combine 2 images using layers, as soon as I figure out how to do it.

I find making local color corrections easier using control points in NX2 than using layer masking in CS4. I shoot RAW files and having non destructive editing means I can go back and change an image if I choose.

Yes NX2 is not perfect. IMHO, no one program is. I would like to see a 64 bit NX3? Nik Silver Efex Pro is not available for NX2. Color Efex Pro filters are. Just my 7 1/2 cents (inflation)

-------------------
"On no account allow a Vogon to read poetry at you." - The Hitchhikers Guide

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Robp Gold Member Nikonian since 23rd Oct 2009Thu 24-Jun-10 07:14 PM
951 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#32. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 29


Gainesville, US
          

Howard might be hiding his answer to you in his second paragraph where he imbeds "almost 20 years".

Rob Puller
my Nikonians gallery

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
cliddell Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Oct 2006Fri 25-Jun-10 08:01 AM
992 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#33. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 32


Pietermaritzburg, ZA
          

Ha ha - Hi Howard,

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel about Nikon software :>)

Just for the record I quite like the integration between VNX and CNX and hope that this will be carried forward in newer upgrades.

Regards,
Clive Liddell
Pietermaritzburg
South Africa

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

TomCurious Registered since 03rd Jan 2007Mon 21-Jun-10 07:36 PM
2318 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#10. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon 21-Jun-10 07:37 PM by TomCurious

Bay Area, US
          

In the past, I have used NX2, Aperture2, PSE and LR2 (both using ACR).

Image Results:
When I compared the results from processing the same RAW file a couple years ago (using the latest versions from Nikon, Apple and Adobe at the time), NX2 finished first, Aperture second and Adobe last. Adobe had a lot of problems converting highlights properly. Aperture did highlights as good as NX2, but the colors were sometimes not right. NX2 was perfect.
I compared all these again earlier this year, and Adobe had improved much and was now equal to NX2. Aperture still has issues in color accuracy (I also tried Aperture3, same).

Ease of use and performance:
Aperture is best, LR2 is a close second (almost same as Aperture), NX2 is dead last by a very wide margin.

Today I'm using LR2 (will upgrade to LR3 soon).

Tom
Bay Area Nikonian


http://www.tkphoto.me/

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
pavelho Registered since 27th May 2010Mon 21-Jun-10 11:28 PM
21 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#17. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 10


Möllersdorf (NÖ), AT
          

Hallo Thorsten, alias Tom, many, many thanks for sharing your experience. In fact, it contributed very little to my ability to move myself forward in terms of deciding, I feel now like it has actually delivered even more confusion about it and uncertainty. I did not experienced, as being very new to it, the CNX2 as something to understand easily ... and felt like, why to bother again with a cheap piece of SW coming from a HW manufacturer ... had dozens of those on my computer already, and uninstalled them all, and still happy about it.

So, before putting 200 bugs more on upgrade from PSE8 to LR3 at the occasion of my D700 arrival, I just wanted to be sure I do not miss anything critical about this strange CNX2, before I deinstall it -- 'it could happen that even such strange SW has one or two features, which even might be vital in some way'. So just to avoid a mistake, which might (things like this happen) take ages to discover, I went here to ask the experts. And if you follow up the discussion at this threat, it's just amaising, how different perspectives come here together.

Let me ask you on one particular point -- if you got dozens, few dozens or even hundert or hunderts of NEFs to retouch, some will need just one, max. 2 parameters to change, so can stay, will you get it done quicker in LR2/3 or CNX2?

As I can't do much yet in CNX2, and the PSE8 NEF plugin is not identical with options CNX2 offers, and requires quite some clicks, as the NEF plugin is not straight forward too. I'm not behind finding a great tool, which can do it all - I believe PSE and LR can do, but would typically use a great tool just from time to time, not necessarily every day, unless it's really just a very few clicks excercise. Quality matters of course, otherwise I won't go for D700 and NEF. But you say, from that perspective, they all can and do well, no real difference.

Would really be interested in your view, it sounded to me like you got a lot of experience with the stuff. Many thanks.

Pavel

Obstacles are what you see when you take your eyes off the goal.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
TomCurious Registered since 03rd Jan 2007Tue 22-Jun-10 04:25 AM
2318 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#22. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 17


Bay Area, US
          

Hi Pavel, let me try to answer as best as I can:

I usually get home from a shoot with dozens or hundreds of images. (Well most of them are no good, but that's just due to this poor photographer ). Importing, sorting and editing them for output to my website or for print goes way faster in LR2, as compared to NX2 (plus View NX etc).

If you are looking for one application that is simple to use (as far as software can ever be simple), yet can do most of your workflow, I would seriously look at Lightroom. I still have NX2, there is no reason to uninstall it. But it is very rare that I use it. Same with PSE: I keep it for very select use cases, but LR is so much simpler to use.

In addition to LR2, I have the Lightroom plug-ins from Nik which I can highly recommend. Nik has a complete package for sharpening, selective color correction, B+W conversion, etc. The beauty is that these plug-ins are also very simple to use yet very powerful (just like LR), they take just seconds to operate and provide professional results.

Tom
Bay Area Nikonian


http://www.tkphoto.me/

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
pavelho Registered since 27th May 2010Tue 22-Jun-10 07:44 PM
21 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#25. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 22
Tue 22-Jun-10 07:49 PM by pavelho

Möllersdorf (NÖ), AT
          

Hallo Thorsten, alias Tom, you are killing me! After I gave up all my initial ideas of not upgrading from the trial to the unlimited of CNX2, and moving from PSE8 to LR3 got completely destroyed at this thread within less then few days,... now, now you are telling me, to get back to the square zero, and revive the plan I killed - I was there ... my latest plan, up on reading all the experiences here was to keep the PSE8 and just upgrade from trial on the unlimited version of CNX2, and explore CNX2 and acquire it so that I could use it as a daily tool for small fixes, together with View NX. Catalog would still stay with PSE8 ... ... ... oh no, and now you tell me all the secrets about the Nix plugins for LR3 ..., oh my God ... and how simple and fast can all that go with ... what? LR3? ... oh no !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But don't worry, there is nothing bad in giving a pupil a hard time, that's the only way to facilitate a true learning.

I appreciate all your experience, and sharing. What I'll do now is to get some of those tutorials people suggest for CNX2, and then I'll see. Maybe in autumn, I'll get a demo of LR3 to see the difference to PSE8. I'm not sure I want to spend money on CS5 ... far too expensive, and I would use probably very little even a small part of what it can do.

Let's see where I get. But in any case, your perspective, actually quite unique here, helped me a lot. Many thanks.

Pavel

Obstacles are what you see when you take your eyes off the goal.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

wcfalcon Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Dec 2008Mon 21-Jun-10 07:48 PM
6 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#11. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 0


Randallstown, US
          

I've using NX2 for quite some time now (and yes, it has the worst UI in the history of mankind!). I recently switch to LR2/CS4. Now I'm back to NX2 using LR2/CS4 only for post-processing work that can't be done in NX2.

The reason for the switch? It stems from the fact that I have yet to learn how to configure Adobe's camera raw to match my camera settings. So if I attempt to work with a NEF in LR2 - the introduced color noise is unbearable and LR2 noise reduction capabilities are just as bad; I've been shooting at ISO 2200+.

If you shoot in low light conditions and require high ISO settings, I suggest sticking with NX2 for the initial steps in your workflow and use Adobe products for the final steps.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
pavelho Registered since 27th May 2010Mon 21-Jun-10 11:42 PM
21 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#18. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 11
Tue 22-Jun-10 05:27 PM by pavelho

Möllersdorf (NÖ), AT
          

Hi Wallace, I'm hearing you, and experimenting with CNX2 in parallel to reading what people suggest at this threat, this is where my thoughts are. Will have to be able to get deeper into CNX2 to try and see if I can ever understand it. But the challenge is that PSE does not offer an easy - less then few clicks, and native NEF support, option too. And as with all conversions, there are things I do not understand yet, but I agree, what Adobe produces is not what I get from the NEF. PSE can do 14-bit, so that's not the source of the differences, it's probably due to the different logic and conversions, still not sure about it. I only got PSE, not LR, so I can't judge if LR would make my life easier compared to PSE when it comes to the NEF processing. But in PSE to correct one or two parameters represents an effort, which I could not effort to do too often, so I won't do it, and that's not what I want.

Despite I thought I'll get here just an acknowledgement for my journey of de-installing the Nikon brand destroying piece of cheap SW, and will upgrade from PSE to LR, I see now that the final destination could be still quite different. Interesting. As so often in life.

Many thanks for sharing your perspective.

Pavel

Obstacles are what you see when you take your eyes off the goal.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Robp Gold Member Nikonian since 23rd Oct 2009Tue 22-Jun-10 03:35 AM
951 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#21. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 18


Gainesville, US
          

Pavel, this is an interesting thread. I always like to read, and generally agree with, comments by Howard Carson and Bob Baldasssano and here we find them a little at odds with respect to NX2. Well, they are both right of course, for themselves, and that's what you are going to get as opinion from this group. People like software packages for personal reasons which include many non-rational as well as rational justifications. I'm in the same boat; I like NX2, CS5 and LR3 for different purposes and what I think are rational reasons. I'm sure some will think that I'm not entirely rational, however.

I have done very careful comparisons of image rendering from each package and conclude that NX2 yields better results with less effort, UNLESS you need special treatment like haze removal or lots of sharpening of an already noisy image; then CS5 is better. In fact, I'll start on a project in NX2 and when I'm ready to do something exceptional I'll open the file in CS5 directly from NX2. This opens a TIF file in CS5 with all NX2 edits "baked in". Now, having said this, I freely admit that I am not an expert and have just stumbled onto a methodology that works for me but might be easily improved upon. My method does take a fair amount of time and probably won't appeal to a "Pro".

I still prefer NX2's image rendering but CS5 and LR3 have a new ACR interface that will present a NEF image extraordinarily well and much better than CS4 or LR2 did.

To answer your question "if you got dozens, few dozens or even hundert or hunderts of NEFs to retouch, some will need just one, max. 2 parameters to change, so can stay, will you get it done quicker in LR2/3 or CNX2?" You will definitely get it done quicker and better in NX2. My opinion, of course.

I'm pretty sure (readers please correct or confirm) that LR3 won't do pano's or HDR's. PSE will do pano's; don't know about HDR. You are correct in saying that Adobe products do not detect some settings in NEF's; that's why I start processing with NX2 and save the "good stuff" in a TIF if I need to work in an Adobe product.

All this is to say, I think you should hang onto PSE for pano's and give NX2 a serious try for anything else. If you decide to use some other tools, you will already have a good idea of desired possibilities. Get Jason Odell's NX2 guide; it is a huge help. He will have you do a pretty good start-to-finish edit in one chapter and then tell you about "special" edit problems in depth.

Rob Puller
my Nikonians gallery

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
pavelho Registered since 27th May 2010Tue 22-Jun-10 08:22 PM
21 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#26. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 21
Tue 22-Jun-10 08:26 PM by pavelho

Möllersdorf (NÖ), AT
          

Hi Rob, I could not have summarized all my readings here and my experience any better then you did. In fact, this is exactly what I'm going to do for now. Your last paragraph describes it just in a perfect way.

I'm not a Profi, I'm a hobbist, I love the low noice, great colors and sharpeness D700 produces, and full command, but can hardly imagine why shall I need stuff like CS5 ... I'm not there. Not now. LR3 got quite some of my attention for the workflow, which I felt could be an easy way to manage the color aberration, sometimes add maybe one or two points on saturation, as I concluded that the only control I can use is the NL , as even SD-Standard was too much for me as a default setting. And sometimes more, of course, parameters like noice reduction, sharpeness, grey card correction, ... so workflow resonated very well with me. But playing around with both View NX or Capture NX 2, you can select dozens of the files and apply one change to all of them, you need just few clicks, and the task is kicked-off within seconds. So what. But I do not want to over-simplify too.

So will try with CNX2, will get demo version of LR3 later, all the plugins, and let's see what works best for me. As you said, at the end, it's the very personal taste of each of us to find what works best. But still it's really interesting to read all the experience other have made. Probably the most significant learning for me here is to see that being it my initial plan or my current one, none of them is just completely away, but within the regular range -- a very important finding for a real newcomer like me. It can happen easily that you make a big step aside, when you are that new, and it can sometimes take ages, to discover that really. Stuff like this happens daily, it's like that.

And I also like the idea of using TIFF as the bridge from CNX2 further to Adobe. Despite of the TIFF size, it's still a lot smaller then PSDs are.

By the way, I saw you use also AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G, I expect mine to arrive tomorrow ... will be true X-mas in summer for me I'm impatient like a child. How happy are you with those lenses?

Many many thanks.

Pavel

Obstacles are what you see when you take your eyes off the goal.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Robp Gold Member Nikonian since 23rd Oct 2009Wed 23-Jun-10 02:19 AM
951 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#27. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 26


Gainesville, US
          

Pavel, Its been my pleasure to offer my insights and it has been a delight to read your courteous replies to us all. I think you will really enjoy your D700 and your new lens. I tend to use my other lenses more often but the 50mm is the sharpest, fastest and probably the best lens I own (although the 105mm micro is a wonder).

Have Fun!

Rob Puller
my Nikonians gallery

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Sat 26-Jun-10 09:48 PM
12572 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#35. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 26


San Jose, US
          

I am in Iceland, but am reading comments tonight. I will repeat that I believe most people who profess to know PS because they can move a few sliders, but don´know who or why to use curves, blends, chaqnnels, etc. do not really know Photoshop. LR is popular because it is aq lot easier than PS to learn, but it is no where near as capable. I will also again assert that NX2 is not a hard to elarn as so many people think-again it is an interface that may not be intuitive until you understand how to use it. I have to laugh at Howards answer as to how long it took to learn Photoshop. We all have bben there. to know it well takes along time. I also know because so many people have not bothered to really study how to use NX2 they jump into Photoshop or Lr becuae they think something caqnnot be done in NX2 when it can and also be done easier than in Photoshop. As an example abberation correction in NX2 is automatic! No need to open in PS. So my advice to you is still the following. Load the full copy of NX2 and all of the pdates and then start on the Nikon site and look at the tutorials. Then go to U Tube and looka t all the Tutorials their. In a gfew days you will be doing expert edit work. Remember I know my way around PS and I can do anything i want there, but I know it is going to take me longer than to do most of my work in NX2.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

vindex1963 Registered since 27th Jan 2008Tue 29-Jun-10 08:45 PM
125 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#37. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 0


Phoenix, US
          

I like both.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Garry Fuller Silver Member Nikonian since 05th Mar 2009Tue 29-Jun-10 09:25 PM
159 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#38. "RE: Capture NX 2 or Photoshop Elements 8"
In response to Reply # 0


Wakefield, GB
          

I have been using Transfer NX and View NX for almost 2 years with a bit of Gimp thrown in for Photoshop-esq post processing (yes, call me cheap!), very happy with the workflow until I decided to try Lightroom3 beta2 - now I am hooked on LR. I still transfer from compactflash using Transfer NX but once in Lightroom I can do all I did before but in a much shorter time. I would also say that I prefer the output of LR3 as well.

Maybe it is my lack of skill in PP but I have to say it will be difficult for me to go back to View NX now as adjustments in LR take no time at all to render, rendering adjustments in NX seemed to take ages, in comparison to almost instantaneous within LR.


http://www.garryfuller.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) Nikon & Nikonians Imaging Software (Public) topic #2633 Previous topic | Next topic


Take the Nikonians Tour and learn more about being a Nikonian Wiki /FAQ /Help Listen to our MP3 photography radio channels Find anything on Nikon and imaging technology - fast!

Copyright © Nikonians 2000, 2014
All Rights Reserved

Nikonians®, NikoScope® and NikoniansAcademy™ are trademarks owned by Nikonians.org.
Nikon®, Nikonos® and Nikkor® are registered trademarks of Nikon Corporation.