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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Sat 15-Mar-14 06:18 PM
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"CaptureNX-D... why?"


US
          

Was the purpose of releasing NX-D to dramatically increase the number of LightRoom users?

Why would anyone invest time and energy into NX-D given the looming abandonment of NX2? Why not just release the most bug-free state of the art version of NX2, then just say that Nikon is out of the post-processing software business?

Why not just release all code information on a continuing basis to Adobe, and be done with it. Nikon should release all codes for properly converting edited NEFs into LR.

NX-D? Really? Why?

Imagine Honda saying, "You can only buy our gasoline to optimally run your car." Then, "Ahhh, in the near future, our gasoline won't be reliable or available. But here's a new, basic fuel that will at least start the car. But just don't expect performance."

Capture NX-D is a retro-grade based inducement to buy LR.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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robsb Platinum Member
15th Mar 2014
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billD80 Silver Member
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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Sat 15-Mar-14 09:32 PM
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#1. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 0


San Jose, US
          

Remember Nikons camera market encompasses many types of cameras from PS to the D4s and varying skill sets from rank amateur photographers with no post processing skills to professional photographers and designers. Nikon also has feature rich cameras with such things as ADL, Picture Controls, etc. VNX2 was the "free" tool they provide for their general base and CNX2 for those who wanted to do more professional editing, not counting the Adobe product crowd. In general people always complained how slow CNX2 was (before the 64 bit versions)and not recognizing how much processing was going on to keep the process non-destructive. CNX2 was a mix of Nikon and NIK functionality and the NIK part is no longer available to Nikon for whatever reason. Nikon cannot produce cameras without providing a way for people who shoot RAW to make use of the camera settings and tools, just like Canon can't. CNX2 took RAW conversion a step further and gave you a first class editing tool as well, more powerful than the free VNX2. Nikon's secret sauce is not secret. They have always made an SDK available for anyone who wanted to be able to read all of the Nikon functions, but apparently it is costly and in the case of Adobe who is making a product for a large number of cameras, it would not fit their model of proving specific tools for each of the camera systems as I would make their product too complicated. So the makers of post processing SW were content to read the RAW file and none of the Nikon parameters and created their own set of tools to work with all the cameras they supported.

So why NX-D? It took some of the CNX2 functionality without NIK features and without storage in the NEF and provides it for free. My guess is it will be more feature rich on release to make it more like VNX2. It will be a fairly decent Global RAW processor with some editing that will satisfy the lower end of the base and provide access to the Nikon settings. For the higher end it would also be useful in providing that RAW front end to create 16 bit TIFFs to ship to other post processors for further local editing.

To expect Nikon to release the SDK for free is not realistic nor as stated above will it really fit the model of multi-camera edits used by the other SW producers.

This whole unfortunate situation is a result of the NIKON/NIK split that was made worse by Googles purchase. The result is the end of CNX2 and the need to decide what actions are best for you some will continue to use CNX2 as long as they can, some will move to ACR as their RAW processor either in LR or PS and some will pick entirely different solutions as diverse as On One, Ninja even LaserSoft HDR Studio. Each will pick the choice that works best for them with the least pain and cost.

Depending on where you stand in the spectrum, CNX-D can be an improvement over what you were using or a retro-grade to CNX2. I feel that NX-D was never really meant to replace CNX2 no matter what Nikon says but is really an upgrade to VNX2.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Sat 15-Mar-14 10:16 PM
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#2. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 1


US
          

>I feel that NX-D was never really meant to replace CNX2 no
>matter what Nikon says but is really an upgrade to VNX2.
>

Then Nikon needs to be brought up to speed on their own products and their promotional intent.

VNX2 is fine as it is, and hopefully Nikon will see fit not to force migration away from that program as well.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Sun 16-Mar-14 03:26 AM
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#3. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 2


San Jose, US
          

I'll admit I am baffled by what they will do with VNX2 as it is the product with the ability to keyword but does not have the editing tool set that NX-D has. You can store simple edits in the NEF. But why have two similar free programs? CNX2 was clearly a cut above VNX2 but you paid for it. But as I understand NX-D will be free.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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jbloom Gold Member Awarded for the continuous and generous sharing of his high level expertise and his always encouraging comments in several forums. Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Tue 18-Mar-14 07:18 PM
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#5. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 3


Wethersfield, US
          

>I'll admit I am baffled by what they will do with VNX2

I think Nikon is as baffled as you are, Bob. Therein lies the problem.

-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports Photos

  

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jbloom Gold Member Awarded for the continuous and generous sharing of his high level expertise and his always encouraging comments in several forums. Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Tue 18-Mar-14 07:17 PM
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#4. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 0


Wethersfield, US
          

When I look at the history of the desktop software Nikon has produced to support their DSLRs, the only conclusion I can come to is that their hearts aren't really in it. They have never developed, maintained and supported their software they way they should. They outsourced their principal product, first to Nik and now, apparently, to some Chinese company. Can you imagine Nikon outsourcing their camera design like that? I can't. It seems as though desktop software is something they provide grudgingly, not as part of an overall Nikon ecosystem.

I came to that conclusion several years ago, which is why I abandoned using Nikon-branded software as a critical part of my workflow. I'll still use VNX2 on occasion for things like looking at the focus points, but that's about it. CNX-D only confirms that opinion.

"Why not just release all code information on a continuing basis to Adobe, and be done with it. Nikon should release all codes for properly converting edited NEFs into LR."

I doubt they have the legal right to release U-Point technical information. As I understand it, it's owned by Nik/Google, not Nikon. Which was, of course, their original mistake. They should have developed the software in-house by hiring talented software developers. They they would own the IP and have a viable, supported product.

-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports Photos

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Wed 19-Mar-14 11:05 AM
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#7. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 4


US
          

>I doubt they have the legal right to release U-Point technical
>information. As I understand it, it's owned by Nik/Google, not
>Nikon. Which was, of course, their original mistake. They
>should have developed the software in-house by hiring talented
>software developers. They they would own the IP and have a
>viable, supported product.

Any chance that Nik/Google continues to support Capture NX2, or releases a product with a similar interface and tools? And is it likely, or not, that given such a scenario, Nikon RAW files could be fully read and processed?.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Wed 19-Mar-14 11:06 AM
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#8. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 7


Colorado Springs, US
          

No chance, unfortunately.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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jim_hughes Registered since 28th Feb 2014Tue 18-Mar-14 07:55 PM
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#6. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 18-Mar-14 07:57 PM by jim_hughes

US
          

NX-D has one purpose: a marketing bullet point.

They want to sell cameras with "free image editing software included". That software does need to process raw files, but beyond that, there are no firm requirements. So they did the cheapest thing they could do: paid for a customized version of an existing low-end product and put their name on it. I wouldn't even look for a version 2 of NX-D; it already does everything it needs to do.

  

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RBLR Registered since 05th Apr 2014Sun 06-Apr-14 02:59 PM
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#9. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 6


Salisbury, GB
          

Well you learn something new everyday! This is the first I've heard about the end of support for CNX2. Can't say I'm surprised though, it was always on the cards after Google bought Nic.
I will have to download and have a look at CNX-D.

Ian

  

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georgesass Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Jan 2007Tue 15-Apr-14 08:43 PM
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#10. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 9


Annapolis, US
          

Well now I better understand why Jason Odell has been conducting webinars on LR, and most recently using LR with Photo Mechanic. He explained the Google/NIK situation to me months ago, but I was hoping Nikon would somehow continue to develop its NX software, as it has worked very well for many of us.

Looks like I'm now going to have to invest in a long learning curve with LR….I'd rather be out shooting than sitting here getting frustrated at the computer. But once I learn LR, I'm also going to consider switching camera brands…..very interested in the new Fuji models…and without having to depend on my old workflow of NX 2 and Photo Mechanic, I'll be free to make the switch. Hmmm…wonder if Nikon thought this out carefully or just decided investing in proprietary software in't worth it.

George Sass, Sr
www.sasscom.com

  

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James23p Moderator Awarded for his wide variety of skills, a true generalist both in film and digital photography Nikonian since 25th Apr 2004Wed 16-Apr-14 03:26 AM
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#11. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 10


Memphis, US
          

I made the switch and LR is really easy to work with. I now find after a few weeks I am getting better PP results in LR than I did in NX2 and my workflow seems to be faster.

Jim

Share, Learn and Inspire
www.nikonians.org




I will use film until the last roll and last lab are gone. Go Navy

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Wed 16-Apr-14 02:05 PM
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#12. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 11


US
          

>I made the switch and LR is really easy to work with. I now
>find after a few weeks I am getting better PP results in LR
>than I did in NX2 and my workflow seems to be faster.
>
>Jim

I would imagine I'll do the LR thing, but what's the best way to save files long term? Typically, I have NEFs/JPEGs of my best. TIFFs out of the D7100 are huge... So, saving RAW files out of LR, what is one left with? A DNG? Generally, how big are the resulting RAW files?

THANKS for the insight.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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esantos Moderator Nikonians Resources Writer. Recognized for his outstanding reviews on printers and printing articles. Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas, including Landscape Photography Awarded for his extraordinary accomplishments in Landscape Photography. His work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian. Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002Wed 16-Apr-14 02:23 PM
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#13. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 12
Wed 16-Apr-14 02:24 PM by esantos

McAllen, US
          

I hope I understand your question. The most utilitarian way to archive your NEF files, using Lightroom as your main ingesting/cataloging/editing program is to ingest the files, using LR, directly from your memory cards into a directory system that makes sense for you. Once these files are in your directory of choice you can then incorporate a sound backup routine in the traditional way. Then, in LR you can work on your NEFs and LR will save the non-destructive edits in it's catalog. The catalog system will preserve these edits in a separate database file that can also set to be backed up on a regular basis. Alternatively, you can instruct LR to also save these edits to a separate .xmp sidecar file. These files are very small (a few kilobytes) and reside in the same place where your NEF files are stored on your hard drive.

Ernesto Santos
esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography

  

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ColColt Gold Member Nikonian since 19th Aug 2008Wed 23-Apr-14 02:02 AM
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#14. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 13
Wed 23-Apr-14 02:27 AM by ColColt

Knoxville, US
          

I wish corporate businesses would leave well enough alone. I was enjoying NX2 after getting use to it a few years back and now they want to can it. Reminds me of items in the grocery store. I can be assured that if I find something I like it's going to disappear in about six months.

Young minds and those that work in a professional way with photography can make the transition from one type of software to another fairly easy but, I find it daunting the older I get. Leave my favorite cereal, snacks and NX2 alone!

Another thing that bothers me is I'm considering a new computer...OS Windows 7. I have a six year old Vista machine with NX2 and don't know if I can transfer it to Windows 7. That will be a problem indeed. Currently, I have all my digital photos on a separate drive installed in the computer as F:/drive. That's it's intended purpose...to solely encompass my photos.

I probably won't be getting a new camera for some time but a new computer is definitely a great possibility in the next 3-6 months and hopefully I can transfer all my photos from that drive to it. I'm uncertain just how long I'll be able to still use CNX2 but plan to until the end. Perhaps I should still watch Jason's program this Saturday to bring me up to speed on just what LR can/cannot do that CNX2 could.




My goal in life is to be the person my dog already thinks I am.

Children are for people who can't have dogs. ~Author Unknown

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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James23p Moderator Awarded for his wide variety of skills, a true generalist both in film and digital photography Nikonian since 25th Apr 2004Wed 23-Apr-14 03:31 AM
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#15. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 14
Wed 23-Apr-14 03:33 AM by James23p

Memphis, US
          

CNX2 works great with Windows 7 I had CNX2 on my Win 7 machine and it runs fine on my Win 8.1 but I have stopped using it and moved to LR. One thing I can say is that the learning curve with LR is not bad the develop module is real easy it was the catalog idea that I have had a bit more trouble digesting but it is coming.

I feel ya on the grocery store I will find something I really like and sure enough it was a close out item never to be seen again!

Jim

Share, Learn and Inspire
www.nikonians.org




I will use film until the last roll and last lab are gone. Go Navy

  

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georgesass Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Jan 2007Wed 23-Apr-14 01:15 PM
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#16. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 15


Annapolis, US
          

Well, I've signed up for Jason's webinar this Saturday to get started learning LR. But I don't see how LR will be able to read my NEF files that have been processed and edited in NX2 and saved as NEFs. I have thousands of edited NEF files and even utilized NX2's ability to save various "versions" of these files. According to Jason, NX-D won't even read these processed NEFs! Shame on Nikon for leaving so many of us in this lousy situation.

George Sass, Sr
www.sasscom.com

  

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jim_hughes Registered since 28th Feb 2014Wed 23-Apr-14 06:39 PM
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#20. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 16


US
          

LR will read them, so will NX-D, but neither will read the embedded edits. You'll see the image as originally shot, and start editing from scratch.

  

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georgesass Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Jan 2007Wed 23-Apr-14 07:10 PM
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#21. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 20


Annapolis, US
          

Yes, that is what I was afraid of…editing from scratch on thousands of processed images. I just hope my good old NX2 will keep working as long as I do. But maybe I will start converting high priority, edited NEFs to TIFFs. Thanks, Nikon. You know, years ago I attended a seminar by Peter Krogh who wrote "The DAM Book," (digital asset management), and he specifically warned against using a camera company's RAW processor for this very reason. I can still hear him saying, "you can't count on these companies to continue supporting these programs, and when they stop, you're screwed." He proposed converting everything to DNG and relying on Adobe. Hmm. I'm looking forward to learning what Jason has to say about all this.

George Sass, Sr
www.sasscom.com

  

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mwhals Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2004Fri 25-Apr-14 03:36 PM
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#25. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 21


Winfield, US
          

NX2 should continue working fine for your past images. Nikon isn't updating it anymore, but they aren't going to remove past compatibility with the cameras. As long as you are using the same DSLR, it should continue to work. It is definitely an inconvenience having to use one software for past files and a different software for future files.

Shoot nature with respect and don't trample it or startle its inhabitants.

  

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jim_hughes Registered since 28th Feb 2014Fri 25-Apr-14 04:05 PM
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#26. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 25


US
          

That's true, and I still use it to some extent. But keep in mind that if the next Windows update breaks it, Nikon won't do anything about it.

  

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Covey22 Moderator Expert in various fields including aviation photography Awarded for his contributions to the Resources and The Nikonian eZine Charter MemberWed 23-Apr-14 03:06 PM
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#17. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

Still on CNX2 2.4.6. The good news is most of my equipment is old, so the NEFs I generate are well supported. Managed to get it up and running on a new Windows 8.1 workstation. Despite all it's quirks, CNX-2 is still the best RAW converter for Nikon files IMHO. I got LR 5 up and running, can't stand it. Do all the magic in CNX-2 especially the Control Points, export to PS Elements and my Nik plug-ins and away I go. My workstream is not sustainable long term, but I'm getting to the point where I like what I like and I'm becoming the onery old curmudgeon that I once laughed at.

"Toodle-loo from Covey22!"

-Armando
Nikonians Team
Nikonians News - Fresh Everyday!

The Covey Blog!

My Plan:

Get out of the car.
Get closer to the subject.
Pick the right mid-tone this time.

See My Nikonians Gallery

  

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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Wed 23-Apr-14 03:15 PM
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#18. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 17


Tacoma, US
          

>...but I'm getting to the point where I like what I like and I'm becoming the onery
>old curmudgeon that I once laughed at.

Can we have a "Curmudgeon" forum?

Mick
Web Site: http://www.mickklassphoto.com
Online gallery: http://mickklass.gallery
My nikonians gallery

Puget Sound Chapter Coordinator
Visit Our Gallery

  

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Covey22 Moderator Expert in various fields including aviation photography Awarded for his contributions to the Resources and The Nikonian eZine Charter MemberWed 23-Apr-14 03:31 PM
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#19. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 18


US
          

Probably, but the poor mod who gets "volunteered" to keep an eye on it will likely end up a curmudgeon if they weren't already - occupational hazard.

"Toodle-loo from Covey22!"

-Armando
Nikonians Team
Nikonians News - Fresh Everyday!

The Covey Blog!

My Plan:

Get out of the car.
Get closer to the subject.
Pick the right mid-tone this time.

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Wed 23-Apr-14 07:20 PM
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#22. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 17
Wed 23-Apr-14 07:22 PM by robsb

San Jose, US
          

I also have CNX2 running on a 64 bit Windows 8.1 workstation. I never plan to go to LR. I already have PS CS6 Extended as part of the Production Premium Suite, bought and paid for so I do not plan to go to CC either. I am looking at Dan Margulis' new Post Card process, having bought the book. It would essentially allow me to use CNX2 and PS for the rest of my life. I would have nothing new to learn. Unless Nikon actually produces a real replacement for my D700, I will never buy another body unless it breaks, and I currently have all the lenses I need, though I do still have a very few wants on the long end, but most likely will not scratch that itch. While I am old, I don't think my sticking with what I have makes me a curmudgeon, just someone who is tired of the upgrade dance.

Bob Baldassano
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"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

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ColColt Gold Member Nikonian since 19th Aug 2008Thu 24-Apr-14 01:29 AM
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#23. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 22


Knoxville, US
          


This whole thing reminds me of the many saved photos I had on Web Shots and Flickr that both suddenly went away and I no longer had my photos at either place. Best I know, there was no two minute warning of what was about to happen. They and my photos just vanished. I look for photobucket to do the same one day.


My goal in life is to be the person my dog already thinks I am.

Children are for people who can't have dogs. ~Author Unknown

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Thu 24-Apr-14 04:53 AM
12818 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#24. "RE: CaptureNX-D... why?"
In response to Reply # 23


San Jose, US
          

I stopped using Flickr and no longer have a Pro account, but my powted images are still there. I keep multiple copies of all my images stored in various places. I have my Nikonians gallery which is all JPEG, I have 3 disk drives just for photo storage and every image I have taken is stored 3 times, once on each. Very old images are only JPEG as RAW was not available. Later I stored 2 copies of the NEF, one right out of the camera and never touched and one edited version of the NEF. I also have TIFF version of those files and jpegs from the TIFFs that I have posted on line. All of these exist in Windows folders and none of the backups are compressed in any backup format as I use Retrospect to make duplicates of the original files automatically and those duplicates are stored on the 2 extra drives. So each time I run Retrospect, once a week. It checks the original drive against the two copies and duplicates any new or missing images to the other drives so that each drive has the exact same images and each image can be directly accessed by any of my post processing software.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) Nikon & Nikonians Imaging Software (Public) topic #11897 Previous topic | Next topic


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