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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) Nikon & Nikonians Imaging Software (Public) topic #10430
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Subject: "Histograms" Previous topic | Next topic
expat Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Mar 2010Wed 29-May-13 12:54 PM
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"Histograms"


Qawra St Pauls Bay, MT
          

I very much appreciated Darrell Youngs "Understanding Your Histogram"
I wonder about a follow up going a bit further using capture NX2 and on similar easy concise lines.

Having spent two years deciding (NO I am not opening old arguments my D700 overexposes and that's that) that my camera overexposes and is fine with b6 in use & ADL selected.
I now get histograms consistently in the box and not spiking up the right hand side.
BUT if I open the RAW file in NX2 and change the Picture Control to anything other than Neutral (I have neutral RAW as my default) then the histogram will invariably go to the right and often too far for the highlight recovery tool.
This is where I would like another Darrell type article, (I have the usual books on CNX2 but don't think what I am looking for is covered)

For example At what point can I set black/white points which will fix the histogram, can I do it as a first step?
If the RAW is correctly exposed on ingress does it matter what the histogram in NX2 says after steps are implemented?

Hope you can fathom out what I am trying to say.

Thanks for looking.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Histograms
mklass Platinum Member
29th May 2013
1
Reply message RE: Histograms
expat Silver Member
29th May 2013
2
Reply message RE: Histograms
ericbowles Moderator
01st Jun 2013
3
Reply message RE: Histograms
expat Silver Member
01st Jun 2013
4
     Reply message RE: Histograms
mklass Platinum Member
01st Jun 2013
5
     Reply message RE: Histograms
nrothschild Silver Member
02nd Jun 2013
6
          Reply message RE: Histograms
expat Silver Member
02nd Jun 2013
7
               Reply message RE: Histograms
expat Silver Member
18th Jun 2013
8
                    Reply message RE: Histograms
mklass Platinum Member
18th Jun 2013
9
                         Reply message RE: Histograms
expat Silver Member
18th Jun 2013
10
                              Reply message RE: Histograms
ericbowles Moderator
18th Jun 2013
11

mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Wed 29-May-13 03:27 PM
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#1. "RE: Histograms"
In response to Reply # 0


Tacoma, US
          

The RAW data is the RAW data. Period.

When you set your Picture Control, ADL or WB (for instance) you are giving your camera and CNX instructions how to interpret the data in order to render the image. (If you shoot JPG, these settings are used to make the resulting image, or "baked-in".)

A simple procedure when using CNX is to perform any edits in the order that they appear from top to bottom in the edit list. So do the Develop section (Camera Settings, Quick Fixes and Camera & Lens Adjustments) then start on the adjustments steps that you want to use. If you are going to set the Black and White points, I suggest doing that as your first adjustment after the Develop section changes.

Does that help?

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

  

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expat Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Mar 2010Wed 29-May-13 04:52 PM
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#2. "RE: Histograms"
In response to Reply # 1


Qawra St Pauls Bay, MT
          

Yes it does help, thank you Mick

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ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Sat 01-Jun-13 04:07 PM
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#3. "RE: Histograms"
In response to Reply # 0


Atlanta, US
          

I agree with Mick - you can set white and black points as a first step after any changes in the develop section.

Your histogram reflects saturation and contrast. Since neutral has the least contrast, any other picture control will add contrast and shift the histogram to the extremes. Similarly any adjustment to brightness or contrast in subsequent post processing will shift the histogram.

If you have a Capture NX2 based workflow and are shooting RAW, you can start with neutral in the camera or change to neutral in post processing if needed. Its a matter of personal preference and your chose workflow. I use Standard as my starting point, but that's because it is close to my desired output. I use Neutral with problem images - especially if I need minimal contrast and sharpening to prevent artifacts.

Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
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Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

  

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expat Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Mar 2010Sat 01-Jun-13 05:22 PM
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#4. "RE: Histograms"
In response to Reply # 3


Qawra St Pauls Bay, MT
          

Thanks Eric, think I may change to Standard too. Seems it will therefore introduce less change in post to the histogram I hopefully get right in camera.
I wonder which one is the most popular with other members, in camera with RAW files.

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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Sat 01-Jun-13 06:00 PM
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#5. "RE: Histograms"
In response to Reply # 4


Tacoma, US
          

I use a customized standard setting with a slight increase in contrast and a sharpening bumped up. For me it is closest to what I will end up with in the final images, so it saves me some time in post.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

  

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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Sun 02-Jun-13 10:24 AM
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#6. "RE: Histograms"
In response to Reply # 4


US
          

I also shoot my Cameras as Standard. Mainly because I like that picture control look and use it in most of my images. It also seems to work well in terms of metering highlights, and histogram and blinky screens.

It is probably a good idea to set the camera to the most contrasty pic control you "generally" use. Thus avoiding the problem you have.

It is also a good idea to get the white balance as accurate as possible in camera. If only for the most accurate metering, especially in the individual color channels.

_________________________________
Neil


my Nikonians gallery.

  

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expat Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Mar 2010Sun 02-Jun-13 11:39 AM
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#7. "RE: Histograms"
In response to Reply # 6


Qawra St Pauls Bay, MT
          

Thanks for replies, have gone for Standard now.
White balance is another story because I invariably change it in NX2 to cloudy, seems to fit the ambient conditions where I live in Malta of usually (well, not always but usually) cloudless skies and lots of contrasty whites etc.

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expat Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Mar 2010Tue 18-Jun-13 02:59 PM
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#8. "RE: Histograms"
In response to Reply # 7


Qawra St Pauls Bay, MT
          

Could you please clear up one more point unless I am being too picky?
The attached screen shot shows a NEF opened in Capture NX2, no adjustments made whatsoever.
At the instant of opening the file the Double Threshold histogram shows exactly like the Quick Fix one with shadows against the left wall.
In about 2 seconds the Double Threshold display changes to as it is seen in the screenshot.
ie it becomes exactly like the Levels & Curves graph at the bottom of picture, both apparently within the edges of the graph.
The Quick Fix remains as it was.
So after a short delay the three displays are as seen here, the only thing that has happened is I have clicked the NEF to open it.
Thanks for looking.


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Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Tue 18-Jun-13 05:16 PM
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#9. "RE: Histograms"
In response to Reply # 8


Tacoma, US
          

My bet is that it is the slight delay that it takes for CNX to perform an adjustments to the NEF. Even if you haven't edited the image yet, there are the in camera setting to apply, such as the picture controls and any ADL, for example.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

  

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expat Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Mar 2010Tue 18-Jun-13 05:44 PM
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#10. "RE: Histograms"
In response to Reply # 9


Qawra St Pauls Bay, MT
          

That's a good point, in this case it was Standard Picture Control
(No ADL, after hundreds of tests I have given up with it, find it very unpredictable and best off even if it cant then be toggled on in NX2)
How about the Quick Fix histogram, shouldn't it follow the others?
Thanks for your help Mick.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Tue 18-Jun-13 06:22 PM
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#11. "RE: Histograms"
In response to Reply # 10
Tue 18-Jun-13 06:25 PM by ericbowles

Atlanta, US
          

I think the Quick Fix histogram is from the small JPEG image. It would be exactly the same as the one on the LCD and in View. Capture can take and process a NEF and render a new histogram based on the color space in Capture.

Even the Standard picture control includes some contrast. When you change the image from Neutral to Standard, you are applying saturation and contrast. A new embedded JPEG is created for viewing in the color space selected.


Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
My Gallery
Workshops

Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

  

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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) Nikon & Nikonians Imaging Software (Public) topic #10430 Previous topic | Next topic


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