Hello All,

I'm going to shoot a birthday party involving small children in a few weeks, and I'm thinking of using the technique of putting a flash on a lightstand in two of the corners of the room, pointed at the ceiling. I'm hoping that this will provide some nice, natural looking light on the children as they sit at a table doing the usual birthday party things.

I'll be using my D700, with an SB-800 on a flash bracket bounced off of the ceiling. I'll have an SB-600 in two corners of the room, bounced off of the ceiling.

I'm looking for suggestions on how best to configure CLS in this scenerio. Should I put all 3 flashes in the same group, or in different groups? Is there anything I need to be careful of?

I plan on shooting in manual mode, setting the camera to underexpose the ambient light by 2 stops, and letting the flashes do the rest. I'm planning to use my 24-79 f/2.8 lens on my D700.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Chris

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Try it at home. Depending on the size of the room, you may find that three is serious overkill. I know it would be in my house. On the other hand if it's at, say, a bowling alley (which tend to be light dungeons of the first order), you could be in a totally different situation.

Since you're almost certainly using the 800 as the commander, it won't be in the same group as the remotes - so you'll have only one or two groups. (Groups are only for remotes, not the commander.)

> I plan on ... setting the camera to underexpose the ambient light by 2 stops, and letting the flashes do the rest.

Two stops? That's quite a bit. I'd have guessed that you are wanting to pick subject kids out of the scene, but if you are -2 stops ambient you won't see much of the ambient scene, and it will basically just be TTL on the kids.

In fact, with two flashes lighting the ambient, I'm not even sure what you'll get. I suppose it would depend on how the remotes are set up.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

Hi Brian and thanks for taking the time to read and reply.

I tried this setup in a couple of different rooms of my house with good results. I don't have pocket wizards, so getting my D700 to operate with a flash meter and setting it up to eliminate the pre-flashes would take too long to do onsite, so I put my 2 SB-600s in different corners, and used the pop up flash to trigger them using CLS. I put both SB600s in group A, and set that group for TTL with no FEC My settings were 1/80 at f/2.8 and 800 ISO. I got nice even lighting, even when changing my position, as I would if I were moving around a table of full of little girls in princess dresses (which is what I'll be doing).

I'll have to be careful to avoid getting the flashes in the background of my images. I like to shoot closeups, so this shouldn't be too hard. The flashes contribute to the ambient light so the background behind the subject are more evenly lit too.

I don't know anything about the house I'll be working in, as far as room size or color, or the amount and color of ambient light that will be available. I'm going to get some details from the people hosting the party so that I'm better prepared for the lighting situation that I'm likely to face.

If the ceilings are too high, I have a Lumiquest soft box that I can put on the flash. If the room is too big to place the flashes in the corners, but has a ceiling low enough, I'll use my Flash Bracket with my SB-800 on it and bounce off of the ceiling or walls, as I normally would.

I'll post my results here, if they are worthy...

Thanks,

Chris

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Hi,

David Hobby over at Strobist had a good couple of posts a while back on this very topic. He was reviewing his game plan for shooting Christmas morning shots of his kids and then posted the results of his shoot just after Christmas.

Here's a link to the game plan post:
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/12/twas-light-before-christmas.html

And here's the link to the followup post:
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/12/christmas-game-plan-results.html

He does everything in full manual mode w/ pocket wizards and basically sets his flashes at 1/4 power. You can do the same with CLS in manual mode, but you'll have the added benefit of being able to change things from your master if you need to.

Good luck,
Ben

I've used Hobby's approach twice. It is sound in theory but it can take some practice.

The lights need to be positioned in such a way so that they are as far away from the likely location of the subjects as possible. This is because the lights create hot spots in the room. How and where to place the lights depends upon the room of course. Ceiling height, room shape, and size all come into play.

It can take some experimentation to learn the best way to make it work.

Pete

The set up depends on the conditions of the room in terms of size (volume) of the room and compositions / materials of the wall and ceiling for reflections. Typically, if I were to shoot in the set up, that you plan, I set two SB600’s in manual (1/8 or ¼ power) as 1 group to add lights to the ambient. … (assuming ambient is very dark. If the ambient is not too dark, these are not necessary). Your SB800 is the key to control the subject and I would set it TTL commander in separate group.

One important thing is to position yourself in the places where two SB600’s should not go against your shots (hot shots or creating shadows from unwanted objects, etc).

Personally, after shooting many events and weddings, I now try not to use any off-camera supports but on camera bounce. This goes against the current use of flash trend but that is where I am now and my new challenge…

Also this is a beauty of D700 for low light performance.

www.hitoshiujiie.com/photography.html

Hello and thanks for your reply.

I had not considered placing the SB800 into a separate group and configuring that group for TTL, while leaving the SB600's in a group set to manual mode. It sounds like a great configuration, that will give me even more control over the light.

If I were to use both SB600's and an SB800, should I just set the White Balance on the camera to the flash setting?

Thanks,

Chris

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Hi Pete,

Thanks for reading my post and replying. I'm going to try and get some practice using this technique by experimenting at home and at some friend's houses. I'm also going to try and find out some details on the house where the party is being held so that I'm better prepared. I usually just rely on placing my flash on the flash bracket and bouncing off of the ceiling or a wall for situations like this, but I like (so far) the results that I've gotten using this technique, so I'd like to try it at an actual event. I think an indoor birthday party is a great place to try it out, because they tend to be somewhat static and centered in one or two areas of the house, which makes it easier to set up the flashes to cover the event.

I'll be sure to keep an eye on the blinking highlights on the camera LCD to avoid hotspots.

Thanks again for the advice,

Chris

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Hi Ben,

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my question with the links. I actually read that article a few years ago, but couldn't remember where I had read it. The article provided some details that I had forgotten about.

I decided to experiment further. Rather than trying to use a flash meter, I took a guess at some settings and reduced the flash power until the histogram looked good. I put both of my SB-600s in the A group, and set that group to Manual. I used the D700's built in Commander mode and used its pop-up flash to trigger the remotes via CLS. I found that I was able to increase or decrease the ambient light by varying the shutter speed, with the D700 in Manual metering mode. If I was shooting in a darker area of the room, I can adjust the aperture or increase the power of the SB-600s. I can also add my SB-800 to the D700 if necessary.

As long as I have time to do some setup, I think (hope) that this technique will work well. In my house, I was using the flashes at 1/4 power at ISO 400. Since the D700 produces great images at well over ISO 1000, I should be able to bump it up if things at the actual party are darker than they are at my house.

Thanks again for the links and the assistance.

Chris

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Here's another good (old) article on the topic over at Neil Van Niekirk's blog.

http://neilvn.com/tangents/2007/09/12/finding-the-light/

I'm definitely with some of the other folks who have posted responses...you need to be mindful of the reflections and possible hot spots from this kind of setup and also watch out not to have the light sources in the frame or at an angle near the axis of your lens (unless it is intended).

Good luck.

The way I eliminate hot spots is by using Gary Fong diffusers.
I usually place one flash upwards in each of three corners, triggering either by a 4th flash or with and SU-800.
The higher the better.
All in one group and channel, all on i-TTL simply because I seldom have the time to do test shots on M Mode and flashes on Manual power.
The resulting light is pleasing as you may see from these samples:

This one is at daytime with strong backlight.
All I had to do to it was to clone out the reflection from the triggering flash in a balloon



D700, 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5D AF @ 66mm, P Mode, f/4.2, 1/60, ISO 200
Three SB-800 at i-TTL in opposite corners with Gary Fong Universal Light Diffusers, triggered with the built-in flash

This other one at night, same setup:



D700, 14-24mm f/2.8G AF-S @ 24mm, P Mode, f/7.1, 1/60, ISO 800
Three SB-800 with Gary Fong Universal Light Diffusers, triggered by a SB-900 on-camera, also with Gary Fong Universal Light Diffuser, pointing upwards.

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
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I used to use the Lightsphere until I found the ColorRight Pro Max and I really likes the results from it.

http://colorright.com/colorright-pro-max-portrait.html

As the others stated, there are many variables to consider but when I do combine the on camera with off camera lighting for this type of event, then I bounce the off camera light into the wall and ceiling (when possible). However, I have yet to need this type of light coverage for a birthday party. I will use it during a bridal or baby shower when the room is large and the attendance is 50+. From my experience it is easier to use on camera flash utilizing a difuser such as the Lightsphere or the ColorRight.

drFrank
www.frankkendralla.com
www.kendrallaphotography.com
www.kendralla.com

I use 2 x SB600 in CLS in auto mode with my D90 regularly for family occasions, and it is a painfree process with consistent excellent outcomes.

Because my dominant mode is one speelights in each of groups A and B, that is what I leave them in, and set them up at diagonal ends of the room, aiming at approximately 45 degree upwards to the ceiling in the general direction of the primary subject/s. This is with about an 8 foot white ceiling. This produces a delightful non-directional neutral light.

As I recall, I started at neutral settings. I use the Nikon IR screen in front of the pop-up flash and have had no problems with misfirings.

I don't even use light stands which I figure might present a tripping risk in a busy room, but sit the SB600s on room dividers or sideboards. Occasionally I might have to ask someone to move out of the way of either the IR signal or a flash to ceiling beam.

Thanks everyone for your replies and advice. When I got to the house for the party, I found that the basement was small and oddly shaped, so setting up static speed lights in the corners wasn't going to work out. Instead I put my SB-800 on my hotshot, and rotated it so that fired at a 45 degree angle upwards and behind me. I got some great results, including the one I posted below. Thanks again for all the help.

Chris

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