Am I to understand correctly according to Thom Hogans new book and from other sources that if you are going to shoot frequently at F8 and up that diffraction is going to be an issue with the 800E? So in studio where my sweet spot is usually F9-F11, I need to go with the D800? If this is correct then how is the D800 an acclaimed Landscape camera? Im sure I missed something along the way so somebody straighten me out!
**Also how many of ya'll shoot portraiture with a 800E?**
#2. "RE: D800 E not for studio?" In response to Reply # 0
All he's saying is that the D800e isn't going to be any better than the D800 once diffraction sets in. The E advantage is only accessible when it's not lost to diffraction. If you shoot some landscapes or portraits with either of them, you'll get great results, as long as you do your part well.
_____ Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member
My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!
#3. "RE: D800 E not for studio?" In response to Reply # 0 Fri 12-Jul-13 01:32 PM by ajdooley
Obviously diffraction is a negative function of smaller f/stops. But Depth of Field is a function as well. Depth of Field is an obvious matter that has always existed and must be taken into consideration when taking pictures. We either choose to have a subject sharp or we want to render it as "bokeh." Diffraction I think -- my opinion only -- is a largely overblown concern and plays far less of a role in taking pictures than it does in worrying about it.
Diffraction is a lens design and production issue and a function of optical science. It is what it is. If it is the sole determinant of a camera choice, that choice ignores newer focusing capabilities, better shadow and highlight detail retention and obviously, higher resolution.
My choice? I ignore it. BTW, for landscape photography, unsteady air and haze are FAR larger matters than diffraction.
If diffraction is the only concern -- you may want to explore returning to an 8x10 view camera. But before you do, check out the thread here elsewhere comparing the D800/800E to medium format cameras.
Thom is obviously more articulate than I will ever be -- but he is writing to be read and to earn money. I think he sometimes points out the red herring in an otherwise pristine pond just to do what he does.
#5. "RE: D800 E not for studio?" In response to Reply # 4
I agree with Alan and Craig as well. I think it's over blown and really isn't even visible when looking at normal sized prints shot at f22 and compared to f5.6 prints. Here's a little test i just shot.
I'm comparing 100% enlargements from f5.6 to f11 to f22 from left to right.
I used an AF 105mm f2.8 Micro on my D800. I was at 10 feet from the subject and used flash from a SB800 synced at 1/250 sec. ISO was 400. There was no post processing of any of the images, not even down sampling.
I can see a slight softening of the image shot at f22, but only at the 100% cropped image. I don't see any softening at f11 and would consider this excellent performance in a studio setting.
#6. "RE: D800 E not for studio?" In response to Reply # 0
St Petersburg, RU
If you only shoot in the studio and at f/9 or smaller get the non-e and save $300 towards another strobe because the will perform identically. Diffraction is a fact of life whenever a wave passes through an aperture, whether light or ocean waves. It has only two components, wavelength and aperture size in relationship to detector size. It occurs regardless of lens. It occurs with pin hole cameras that do not have any lens. What will it do to your images? Not very much. Few details one the scale of diffraction amplitudes are visible on human perception scales. If you are printing 200% crops then you will see it but no other camera would produce as much detail of the same image features. If you are shooting a wider variety of apertures get the D800e. I got the D800 solely because in the early days of its release I was lucky to find any D800. All the initial talk of moire patterns turned out to be much ado about nothing. Either is the best imagining machines on the planet. Stan St Petersburg Russia
#9. "RE: D800 E not for studio?" In response to Reply # 0
Excellent comments here - especially from Alan and Len.
Macro specialist Mike Moats has demonstrated the same facts about diffraction vs. DOF. With macro subjects and other situations where you have a tiny DOF and want more, DOF trumps diffraction. You can easily shoot at f/22 or even f/32 if the situation warrants. Yes there is an impact of diffraction - but DOF trumps diffraction.
Now a related issue with the FX cameras is while diffraction shows up at apertures a stop or so lower, you may need more DOF. FX needs about another stop compared to DX. And the high resolution of the D800/D800E means when you view an image at 100% you may see softness in slightly out of focus areas that were not previously observed.
#10. "RE: D800 E not for studio?" In response to Reply # 0
For studio work, I would save the few hundred dollars and get the none-E. Here is a link from a site that the reviewer also said to pick the none-E for studio work as the E showed more signs of moire':
#11. "RE: D800 E not for studio?" In response to Reply # 10
Great talk here and many thanks!! Chris so you say, with conviction that your back up camera will be a D800. So If you were doing it all over again would you go with the D800? Roughly, what percentage of studio shots are you realizing false color? Another thing that baffles me is there is so much discusion with the D800e and false color and moire' yet MF which has been a leader in fashion and glamour do not have an AA filter and yet has been the " Standard" in this type of shooting. Am I missing something here???
>For studio work, I would save the few hundred dollars and get >the none-E. Here is a link from a site that the reviewer also >said to pick the none-E for studio work as the E showed more >signs of moire': > >http://www.falklumo.com/lumolabs/articles/D800AA/D800AAFilter.html > >I've shot a few families family photos and have seen moire' in >many of my shots with my D800E. Most was just false color and >is fixable. If I buy another D800 as a back up body, it will >be the none E. > >Chris
#12. "RE: D800 E not for studio?" In response to Reply # 11
I haven't shot anything in a studio so I'm not sure how this would effect moire' with studio lighting. Also in previous threads, it was mentioned that the software used for post can effect how apparent moire' is in a given shot.
Here is an example of moire' one of the shots i have:
I was able to fix it in LR with brushing in corrections.
Back to your questions, I feel I still would have wanted the E version if I had purchased the None-E version from the beginning. But I think it should have went the other way around, buy the none-E version first then decide if it produces sharp enough images for a given job.
Now I think MF guys do see moire' but just don't talk/make a big deal about it as it comes with the territory so to speak. With such large sensors, MF pixels are still going to be larger then many DSLR sensors, so the very fine details are going to be rendered differently compared to very densely packed sensors as used in the D800(E)/D7000/D7100 etc... So that may effect things as well. Also, with MF having to stop down further for more DOF, this will lead to some diffraction and does reduce chances of moire'. If you look up what causes moire', it is caused by when very fine detail patterns line up with the bayer filter/pixels of the image sensor and will cause false patterns and/or color due to current CMOS sensor design that Nikon/Canon use. So with MF and the pixels being bigger, more data can be collected at each pixel and less chances of moire'.
I think Fuji's X-Trans sensor design maybe step in the right direction or maybe even Sigma's foveon sensor design, which seems to do very well at lower iso values, will be the "fix" to any moire' issues with digital cameras.
Just my 2 cents of things. If anything I stated is not accurate to what anyone else knows or has seen, let me know. This info is from what I've read and seen personally.
#13. "RE: D800 E not for studio?" In response to Reply # 11
Colorado Springs, US
Keep in mind that medium format cameras, which most would consider are well-suited to a studio environment and are frequently used for fashion photography, don't have AA filters. As others have mentioned, either camera will work well in general.