"Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!"
Houston Texas, US
I am very happy to say the issue is settled with regards to my order for a D800.
After reading endless speculation on another thread, about when people expected to receive their D800 shipment.... with many members saying they were the very first person to order on the opening day at 0430AM etc, etc.... so they should be the first to receive the camera.
Well, that did not happen did it? Those first to order are now jacked out of shape because some members have been able to walk into a camera shop and purchase a D800 and these early order guys are disappointed.
So the bitchin has started and some grumble over B&H business practice and accuse B&H for misleading information. B&H has no control over the situation. They continue to take orders because they are in business to sell cameras. And believe me, that is in their best interest and ours as well.
Ha-Ha! What a circus this has turned into! I decided to withdraw from that thread because I am so tired of reading the bitchin that is now going on.
If we let our expectations rise to a level far beyond reality, then we are going to be disappointed. But don't get bitter about it. It is only a camera.
So since I ordered in early February myself and still do not have the D800, I decided to take a positive step to solve the problem. Calling B&H this morning I canceled both orders for a D800 and a BM-12, both of which are on back order.
Wow! It felt good to take that step! I am $3000 richer than I was before the call and will just continue to use and enjoy my beloved D700.
Later in the year, when the D800 becomes available in adequate supply I will read reviews from owners and publications to decide if I really need/want to get one myself.
Right now I have come to the conclusion that this is a camera that is not worth the $3K hit to my bank account. I really don't need a camera with so great of resolution that camera shake can destroy what I am trying to do. That is simply take a clearly focused photo.
Anyway, I just wanted to post the fact that I no longer have a problem with my D800 order. Hope you get your problem taken care of soon...... in one way or the other.
Oh, and there is one final item..... I wish the admin would read the D800/D700 forum closely and see what a circus this is.
I vote we form a D800 forum..... separate from a D700 forum. That way a new D700 owner could ask a question and hopefully get an answer. Also it would eliminate weeding through the junk being written with regards to 'When am I gonna get my D800...Sniff, Sob?
Right now these people are buried by the D800 subject. And no.... it is not going to change soon, so ADMIN....get with it!
If you feel the same, you should make a post requesting this simple change. D800 only and D700 only. Perry
#1. "RE: Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!" In response to Reply # 0
San Diego, US
With the unprecedented demand for this camera ,people knew supplies were limited from the beginning . It's not a big deal for me , I can wait for a tracking # or its on my porch ... the wait isn't an issue . Just the Drama is amazing .
#5. "RE: Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!" In response to Reply # 0
I was in the exact situation with B&H (ordered at 4:30 a.m. on day 1) and took the same steps as you this morning - cancelled my order. Man it feels good. I will continue to read with interest what others have to say about the 800 and make a better-informed decision at that time.
#6. "RE: Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!" In response to Reply # 5
Houston Texas, US
Member PerroneFord has been posting a few comments as he trys out his new D800. Here is one that makes me glad I canceled my order........Quote-. "Speed - The camera is slow. If you are shooting something where it's rather easy to judge peak motion, it's fine. But if you need to shoot peak motion as well as secondary reactions, this is not the camera you want. AF speed seemed fine. A little slower than my D3s it seems, but I expected that."-Unquote.
Have to see how this pans out but right now I feel good having $3000 still sitting in my bank. Perry.
#7. "RE: Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!" In response to Reply # 6 Tue 27-Mar-12 08:56 AM by tkearney
I wonder how many people will regret selling their D700's. I'm sure the D800 is a fine camera, but to me it's not a replacement for the D700. I may add a D800 at some point, but I would not sell my D700 to do it. It seems to me to be more of a specialty camera. I'm interested to see how it performs in the real world in the hands of a lot of different people in a variety of situations before putting my money in it.
#8. "RE: Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!" In response to Reply # 6
>Member PerroneFord has been posting a few comments as he trys >out his new D800. >Here is one that makes me glad I canceled my >order........Quote-. >"Speed - The camera is slow. If you are shooting >something where it's rather easy to judge peak motion, it's >fine. But if you need to shoot peak motion as well as >secondary reactions, this is not the camera you want. AF speed >seemed fine. A little slower than my D3s it seems, but I >expected that."-Unquote. > >Have to see how this pans out but right now I feel good having >$3000 still sitting in my bank. >Perry.
I did try to make it quite clear that I was talking about the D800 as a sports camera. I think outside of that realm and ones similar to it, the camera is going to be terrific. I am going to take it birding today to see how that works out.
#9. "RE: Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!" In response to Reply # 6
Metro Atlanta, US
The D3s is a fast beast. I have a D3 and I know that it is fast. So saying that the D800 is not as good as a D3s in this regard is not really a knock against the D800, especially since we knew that the D800 was not designed to be a sports camera to begin with. I wonder what Perrone would say about the D700 speed compared to the D3s?
The D700 is a great camera. And I don;t fault anyone for wanting to keep it in favor of D800. But if I were comparing the D700 to the D3s, I might be inclined to say that the D700 does compare well against it in terms of speed. A while back, I was shooting HS baseball with my D300 right next to a D700 shooter. And I was firing off shots with no abandon while the D700 shooter was having to time his shots more carefully. For these daylight shots, I am sure that mine were every bit as good as his, only I was able to get a few more shots that he wasn't. But I doubt the D700 shooter was trading his camera in for a D300.
#12. "RE: Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!" In response to Reply # 0
...phew, had to check for a moment that I wasn't reading DPReview...they get similar posts. Had a look at your profile and wow, quite an extensive bit of kit. I did notice that you list your main Nikon camera as the D800???!!!, guess you'll have to change it now. Or send it back, but wait, you cancelled your order, sorry confused.
What would have happened if you'd got the call days ago that the camera was in? How much of your extensive kit collection was impulse purchase? The V1 perhaps?
I guess we can thank you and Perrone for confirming what Nikon have stated; that the D800 is not a sports camera...that's the D4 (sorry, I've posted something about the D4 in the D700/D800 forum...) and at 4fps, really, a sports camera????, not really rocket science is it.
For a guy with so much stuff, I would have thought that at least some feedback from 'real' users would be required before purchasing let alone knowing that the price will come down once the furore has died down. I have never bought a camera without at least reading and seeing as many pictures as I can and to get real feedback from this hallowed forum, to make a balanced decision. 3000 USD is a lot of money, in the UK, Nikon have increased the price due to an 'administrative error', the D800 is now 2600 GBP and the D800E is 2900 GBP. If the D800 was not your style of shooting, then why pre-order? If you were happy with your D700, then what was your reason to pre-order?
I will buy a D800E (of course, not in the UK...) to complement my D3s (sorry, D3s mentioned in the D700/D800 forum...) as I will use it for HDR, panoramics, landscapes, focus stacking, macro and a load of other stuff where resolution is the main driver AND everybody knows the best chance of sharpness is on a tripod. You are actually dealing with a pseudo MF quality in a 35mm size body WHICH can also be hand held if your skill is up to it. Mine is, ever since my OM1, OM2, OM4, F801, F4s, F5, Hasselbald 503CW and plethora of point and shoots, I get sharp pictures. Some examples I have seen of the D800 hand held are great. Where's the problem?
I am glad you have reached the conclusion that the D800 is not worth a 3000 USD hit to your bank account, at least someone who really wants one and who can actually appreciate what Nikon are trying to do with this type of camera will now have the chance to own one. Yes, I agree, reading peoples thoughts/wants can be a bit tedious, but apart from those telling us where to buy one, the point of a Forum is to ask questions, to get opinions, to get another point of view, to consider something you may not have considered so that you can make what you hope will be the right decision (yes, there is still that element of 'what if it isn't' in it...), your decision considered non of the above and I'm happy for you that you appear to have come to your senses...
Yep, let's split the forum so the D700 chappies can whinge how lucky they were in saving so much money.
In fact I have to apologise for falling into the trap of actually commenting on a post that doesn't really say anything...
#13. "RE: Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!" In response to Reply # 12
>I guess we can thank you and Perrone for confirming what Nikon >have stated; that the D800 is not a sports camera...that's the >D4 (sorry, I've posted something about the D4 in the D700/D800 >forum...) and at 4fps, really, a sports camera????, not really >rocket science is it.
I still don't understand what 4fps has to do with the camera being a sports camera. The D2x was one of the worlds leading sports cameras for years... and it shot 5fps. The F4/F4s was the leading sports camera in the world and it shot 3-5fps. And the AF was not much faster than manually focusing.
I have a feeling that when I put the D800 into single point focus, and put a grip on it, it will make a reasonable sports camera. At least for those of us who are not obsessed with frame rate.
I'll be perfectly honest with you. 95% of my sports shooting is single-shot. Just like I did with hand-winder film cameras. Even when I shoot 2-3 frame bursts, it's typically my first shot in the series that makes the cut. I've spent 25+ years learning timing. And I am comfortable with my skill. I don't need my camera to shoot 12fps to make up for a lack of timing.
#14. "RE: Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!" In response to Reply # 13
St Petersburg, RU
On the other hand, the D800 has two features that make it a very good sports camera: 42ms shutter response, and 14 stop DR since most sports are conducted in very wide levels of dominate light, often in the same scene.
I am also a little perplexed as to how frame rate is the make or break spec for cameras for so many people. If frame rate was really the key to capture the peak of action they would use a video camera.
Maybe it is thought of as a bypass or short cut around learning the subjects behavior patterns. Where something happens, in most sports, is not a random accident but the predictable result of angular momentum, distance and mass. Where a play path ends up is not an accident either, and knowing the players, their skills and behaviors, or the team strategies/coaches etc has predictive importance to a skilled photographer.
Sometimes I get the impression that the majority of photo fans think the object is the camera and gear. What makes a sports photographer is not having sports anointed gear or shooting sports, anyone can do that so it has no commercial value. What does have commercial value and is paid for willingly by those needing the photos, is game, talent, and action awareness of someone who, as rare as it is, can deliver to goods.
When I was in the recording industry, there was a general notion held by amateurs that the only thing holding them back was lack of the big budgets and gear. Same with this discussion. No, in fact the ones who could deliver the goods were the only ones who knew gear was not a factor at all in the value of the work done or the results. Consistently with all sorts of unique projects and all sorts of equipment, the skilled engineers and producers delivered the goods. Only the amateurs missed the point that all it took was free talent, free study, free passion, devoting all free time, and free vision to be worth the big bucks. In fact when producers called my studio(which had an unlisted phone number) to get a quote or find out what gear we had, we suggested they go to one of our competitors. Why? Because if they did not know the gear did not make a difference, but the ability to consistently deliver the goods, then having them as a client would lower our odds of keeping the streak going. Sure we had good gear but so did hundreds of other studios in the world, but at any given time, only about 8 studios produced 80% if the hit records....and what gear made little difference. From 1979 to 1986 we had more hit records than any studio in the world, and not one Billboard weekly chart without at least 1 song in the top 10. And gear made little difference. The EXACT same thing is going on in these camera discussions, the focus is on gear and the apparent reason for lack of big time acceptance being lack of top gear or 800 frames per second, 200 bizillion ISO or 6gigapixels. If a sport shooter is not getting the images, it is not the gear, it is not spending 10s of thousands of hours studying the sport, the players, the coaches, the old films etc. The free stuff that separates the sought after pros from the hobbyists. Stan St Petersburg Russia
#15. "RE: Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!" In response to Reply # 14
Too true man.. too true.
I am best at shooting soccer? Why? Because I coached it for 19 years, and still do. I know where the play is going to develop before most of the players do. And I am there, waiting for them with the camera. I played numerous sports at different levels. Basketball, tennis, soccer, golf (badly), volleyball, wrestled, etc. Having a good understanding of SPORTS allows a photographer to get the moments other's usually miss.
I would be remiss in saying the gear doesn't matter. If you can't get the shot because the gear won't let you, then the gear is a limitation. For outside, day time sports, we have LONG passed the technical issues of the gear being good enough. Indoors under poor light and WITHOUT the benefit of strobes, well that's a bit more dicey. And outdoors under the lights is hit or miss depending on the lights.
The truth is, I could take my D200 and get 80% of what I get now on the D3s or the D800. But it's that elusive goal of trying to produce more keepers, more spectacular work that keeps me going forward with the gear. I suspect it's the same for most.
I was shooting birds today at lunch. With my 300/2.8 and a 1.4x tele, and wishing I had a 600mm and a 2x tele!
#16. "RE: Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!" In response to Reply # 14 Tue 27-Mar-12 07:11 PM by mdonovan
Its the same in almost any artistic industry ... the equipment is merely a tool. Of course .. certain tools DO make certain tasks easier.
In my industry for example (the special fx industry) ... new software and hardware do indeed make more complex tasks faster and easier. That being said ... the same thing could be achieved on slower and older machines. It would just be more painful and take longer.
The no. 1 asset any commercial artist has is his/her own perception and awareness of what looks good, followed by his/her ability to create something unique and universally appealing.
There is no substituting equipment for individual talent.
anyway .. that's my take. ___________________________________________________________
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. - A. Einstein
#17. "RE: Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!" In response to Reply # 16
I totally agree with the statements the three of you have made re: knowing your subject and skill vs. having the fanciest gear. How many times have you shown a picture you have taken, to friends or strangers and the first thing they ask is, "What kind of camera do you have?" I know I've lost count...
#18. "RE: Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!" In response to Reply # 17
>I totally agree with the statements the three of you have >made re: knowing your subject and skill vs. having the >fanciest gear. How many times have you shown a picture you >have taken, to friends or strangers and the first thing they >ask is, "What kind of camera do you have?" I know >I've lost count...
People generally stop asking me that when I run out of fingers to count the camera bodies...
#19. "RE: Thanks B&H!---.For solving my D800 pre-order problem!" In response to Reply # 0
To the point that FPS doesn't need to be the only (or even primary) feature for a sports camera....
Until recently I was shooting high school sports with a gripped D700. No real complaints. Love the D700 overall and it was plenty fast in terms of frame rate.
I had a chance to upgrade to a D3s, so I did. But it wasn't for the frame rate at all - it was for the extra stop or two of ISO performance. Shooting under the lights at high school events can be fairly tough at times. With the D700 I could get away with ISO 6400 in a lot of cases, but with the D3s I can go to 12,800 or possibly even a bit further. That's huge for me as it allows me to keep my shutter speeds in the range I want in order to freeze the action.
So for me, higher ISO (and thus shutter speed) far outweighed frame rate in value.