My D800 is on order - and I'll add it to my 2 Nikon D300 cameras.

Unlike the D300, the D800 will take both types of storage media - CF and SD:

CompactFlash© (CF) (Type I, compliant with UDMA)
SD
SDHC
SDXC

And, so, my question is: What is the difference in using CF versus SD cards for storage?

The SD prices are much lower. The 36 MP sensor suggests that my collection of 8GB CF cards may be inadequate. A 32GB CF card is much more expensive than a 32GB SD card.

What are the advantages of either type of card?

Dick

http://www.wilderness-studio.com

The main difference between the two cards is transfer speeds. Compact flash cards use 16-bit data transfer bus of CF cards vs 4 bit on the SD cards.

The fastest SD card can write about 45mb p/s. The fastest compact flash card can write 100mb p/s.

>The main difference between the two cards is transfer speeds.
> Compact flash cards use 16-bit data transfer bus of CF cards
>vs 4 bit on the SD cards.
>
>The fastest SD card can write about 45mb p/s. The fastest
>compact flash card can write 100mb p/s.
>
>
>
That's great. How does that affect real-world shooting - or how will it for the D800? Will the fps rate of the D800 exceed SD card writing speed?

From what I've read online, SD cards might be too slow for the D800. You will need at least a 400x (60MB/s)Compact flash card to even keep pace with the files size coming out of the D800.

But if you intend to shoot at 14 bit RAW large (75MB files), I would recommend getting at least a 600x card (90MB/s).

If you plan on getting that 4fps (in 14 bit L raw), then you might HAVE to get the 600x card or higher.

I would use just the SD card for either back up or video.


http://www.amazon.com/Lexar-Flash-Memory-Card-LCF16GCTBNA600/dp/B005GTNZ0C

If you're on a budget check these cards out.

http://www.ishootshows.com/2011/08/17/review-16gb-transcend-extreme-plus-600x-cf-cards/

>If you're on a budget check these cards out.
>
>http://www.ishootshows.com/2011/08/17/review-16gb-transcend-extreme-plus-600x-cf-cards/
>
>

Th B&H price today is $150.00 each

Not much of a bargain.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/666605-REG/Transcend_TS32GCF600_Compact_Flash_600x_32GB.html/BI/4775/KBID/5289/

The 16GB cards are listed for about 64 dollars for the 600x. The 32 GB is listed for 150 for the 600X. Might be better off getting a few 16GB to try out the brand and see the results.

Thanks for the reference.

Laura

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The 32 GB cards are expensive, but these are much cheaper than their competitors. I think you can get the 16gb at Amazon for $62 to $68.

A 16 gb card will hold roughly 200 75MB pictures... Double that for 32GB version.

Yea, that is the only crappy thing about these cams to me. I am going to be stuck buying 64 or 128GB cards. NOT how I wanted to spend my consumables budget this year.

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

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Is it possible to use the USB 3 port on the D800 and hook that up to a small hard drive? Instead of using a SD or CF card?

>Is it possible to use the USB 3 port on the D800 and hook
>that up to a small hard drive? Instead of using a SD or CF
>card?

No, both devices are USB slaves.

Larry - a Bay Area Nikonian
My Nikonians gallery

www.tempered-light.com

>>Is it possible to use the USB 3 port on the D800 and
>hook
>>that up to a small hard drive? Instead of using a SD or
>CF
>>card?
>
>No, both devices are USB slaves.
>
>Larry - a Bay Area
>Nikonian
>My
>Nikonians gallery>

>www.tempered-light.com


This really sucks...I have to spend $600 to get 4 32gb cards to take pictures for 1 wedding event. (1600 pictures).

>Yea, that is the only crappy thing about these cams to me. I
>am going to be stuck buying 64 or 128GB cards. NOT how I
>wanted to spend my consumables budget this year.

I feel your pain. I've got to replace my 8GB cards - and add some FX lenses to my kit.

The D800 is getting more expensive ....

On a budget, wouldn't it make more sense to get a low performance but very high capacity SD card and a low capacity but high performance CF Card? Write all your photo's to the CF and when the CF fills up, copy the files to the SD card and clear the CF Card? It was just a few clicks in the playback menu on my D7000 and that was how I used the 2 SD slots.

This wouldn't be a great method for professionals, but for me snapping pictures when on vacation away from my computer should work out fine. I'm thinking 16GB UDMA7 (150MB/s) CF and 128GB SDXC.

Nikon D800 | 24-70mm f/2.8G | 70-200mm f/2.8G VR II

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I doubt low performance or high performance cards will make any difference when shooting pictures unless you fill the camera buffer unlikely unless you are a sports shooter.
You will notice the speed of a card when transferring files to your computer if your card reader is fast enough.
A good USB 3 reader is the Lexar Professional USB 3.0 Dual Slot Reader
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004P8J1DU/ref=asc_df_B004P8J1DU6708825?smid=A11NU480HX9A8D&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B004P8J1DU

Best reasonable priced 64 GB card £116.18 inc. VAT I've found is http://www.lambda-tek.com/TS64GCF400-Transcend-64GB-400X-CompactFlash-Card~cs/B443809&origin=gbase16.5
which according to Rob Galbraith & the Sprtsphotoguy is faster than the Transcend 64GB 600x version at read speeds.

Not so much info available for the SD cards one card I've found looks interesting claiming a 104MB/s transfer speed
http://www.lambda-tek.com/44024-Verbatim-Secure-Digital-SDXC-64GB-Class-10~cs/B762967 £59.77= £71.72 inc. VAT
Found a youtubereview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTAoxGY4r18


Some good info at http://sportsphotoguy.com/all-about-cf/
and at http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-9255

What do you think about these cards?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/841486-REG/Lexar_LSD32GCTBNA600_32GB_SDHC_Memory_Card.html/BI/4775/KBID/5289/

or these

http://www.tweaktown.com/pressrelease/2433/team_launches_cf_600x_and_sdhc_class10_super_speed_memory_cards/index.html

Seems like there are SD cards that can keep up with the D800...

Do the pros us SD cards or do they stick to CF cards?

>Do the pros us SD cards or do they stick to CF cards?

Nearly every pro camera only uses CF. I don't think I've ever seen a pro camera only take SDHC cards.

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

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If a pro had the D800 he would use both types.
Personally I prefer CF as they are very robust & much easier to find if you misplace them.

>If a pro had the D800 he would use both types.

Yea, don't remind me. This creates a problem because it means not only will I need to buy large capacity CF cards, I am not stuck having to upgrade SD cards as well.

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

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Looking on the bright side its probably a good thing that Nikon chose to use both SD & Compact flash.
SD is being developed faster & the larger market means prices are a lot cheaper. You just have to store them in a case when you are not using them.

>Looking on the bright side its probably a good thing that
>Nikon chose to use both SD & Compact flash.
>SD is being developed faster & the larger market means
>prices are a lot cheaper. You just have to store them in a
>case when you are not using them.

It's a pretty dim bright side to be honest. I have to carry a separate case for them beyond the one for my CF cards. If I need a dozen CFs for a shoot, I now need a dozen SD cards as well, all in a different case. I use Pelican cases to keep out dust, water, etc. SD cards are also more fragile. I've had two break that I have zero explanation for. One physically split while I was simply pushing it into a reader. Split right along the seam. The other simply stopped working reliably. After less than 6 months.

But these are all liveable problems. These multiple battery/charger things are a MUCH bigger deal.

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

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Based purely on data, I think we have an interesting problem if we shoot RAW. There isn't a card around that will be able to write even compressed RAW files to the card as fast as you can shoot them. Worse, the specs just barely support it.

Here's the data. I took the file sizes here: http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_Brochure.pdf.

I then took a couple of cards for comparison:
* SDXSC 133x - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004SAMZW4?tag=protectyourwi-20
* CF 600x - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0035IXYUC?tag=protectyourwi-20
* CF 400x - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005FPT57E?tag=protectyourwi-20

It doesn't actually matter what card you use because they all just claim transfer speeds in accordance with the spec.

I then divided through to get an FPS rate per card. These numbers assume the performance bottleneck is the card, not the camera or buffer; and that the card is capable of performing at the max rate the speed rating promises. I added in the max performance the spec itself supports (SDXC Max Speed and CF Max Speed below). Here are the results

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That's all well and good, but I assume like most pros, I write to both cards. Typically I am writing RAW to both. Occasionally, I will write RAW to the CF and JPG to the SD card.

It really does point to the D800 as not being set up for wildlife/sports/burst shooting. This really shouldn't surprise anyone. There will be numerous limitations to work around.

Such is the price we pay for walking on the edge.

------
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Does it matter when the camera buffer allows 17 14 bit lossless compressed Nefs before its filled or switch to DX mode which you are probably using for action anyway for the extra reach & the more friendly storage requirements & you can shoot 29 14 bit lossless compressed Nef raws using DX lenses.
The figures for Nef Raw Compressed 12 bit are FX = 25 , DX = 54 before the buffer is filled.

Here's a SD card that does 104MB/s transfer speed
http://www.lambda-tek.com/44024-Verbatim-Secure-Digital-SDXC-64GB-Class-10~cs/B762967

Anybody doubt there will be much faster cards available within the next year ?

Farouk Baouya

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Where are you getting the write speeds. I can't find any published specs for write speeds from the manufacturers, and they are NOT the same as read speed.

Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

Quote>Where are you getting the write speeds. I can't find any
>published specs for write speeds from the manufacturers, and
>they are NOT the same as read speed.<Quote<<<

Actually many do including SanDisk.
However their write speed is "up to" and not sustained write speed.
Lexar 1000 CF claims up to 150MBs
however below that you will see a little video symbol with only 20MBs (sustained).

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

>Quote>Where are you getting the write speeds. I can't
>find any
>>published specs for write speeds from the manufacturers,
>and
>>they are NOT the same as read speed.<Quote<<<
>
>Actually many do including SanDisk.
>However their write speed is "up to" and not
>sustained write speed.
>Lexar 1000 CF claims up to 150MBs
>however below that you will see a little video symbol with
>only 20MBs (sustained).

I don't suppose you would believe that they have recently changed the web site? Seriously, two weeks ago I looked and they didn't quote write speed. Or I was hallucinating.

They do indeed quote write speeds of 90 mbs for one of the SD cards. I would love for someone to get one and compare to the 1000x CF card, see if the camera can write that fast to the SD.

Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

>On a budget, wouldn't it make more sense to get a low
>performance but very high capacity SD card and a low capacity
>but high performance CF Card? Write all your photo's to the
>CF and when the CF fills up, copy the files to the SD card and
>clear the CF Card? It was just a few clicks in the playback
>menu on my D7000 and that was how I used the 2 SD slots.
>

So, with the D800 you can copy files from your CF card to your SD card after the fact--like when you get back to your car?

To save money, I got a Kingston 32GB Compact Flash card $89.95.
It took forever to format in camera.
Then I could not take a picture.
I tried the review button and got the message that the card was either defective or corrupt.
Has anyone else had better luck with these cards
or are they incompatible with a Nikon D800?

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>So, with the D800 you can copy files from your CF card to your
>SD card after the fact--like when you get back to your car?

I'm sure glad I found that comment, and the answer is YES. I had not seen that in the menus, because I was looking in the tools section where other card related things are, but you can indeed, I did a "select all", and copyed 52 images all at once to the SD card. Very cool.

Not fast -- as I write this it's at #16 of 52.

But very cool.

Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

Cool indeed.. thanks! Do you know if in subsequent copying from CF to SD, it will add to the files on the SD card, or overwrite?


>>So, with the D800 you can copy files from your CF card to
>your
>>SD card after the fact--like when you get back to your
>car?
>
>I'm sure glad I found that comment, and the answer is YES. I
>had not seen that in the menus, because I was looking in the
>tools section where other card related things are, but you can
>indeed, I did a "select all", and copyed 52 images
>all at once to the SD card. Very cool.
>
>Not fast -- as I write this it's at #16 of 52.
>
>But very cool.
>
>Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

>Cool indeed.. thanks! Do you know if in subsequent copying
>from CF to SD, it will add to the files on the SD card, or
>overwrite?

It's additive and allows you to choose folder names. It also checks and if you try to copy a file of the same name over one already there it prompts for appropriate action (replace, skip; no rename option).

If your purpose is backup to preserve them, for most shooting however I think using the built in "write to both cards" is easier, so long as you never need a long burst (more than 15 or so) even the slowest card is fine, as you keep shooting in the buffer while it writes.

Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

great.. thanks

If you're concerned about card capacity with the D800 in RAW mode, you might consider shooting 12 bit compressed as Thom Hogan suggests. You lose minimal image quality in this mode as he explains in a recent posting:

http://www.bythom.com/

OldPhotos
"If everyone possesses some measure of this intangible quality called creativity, photography is unprecedented as an outlet for its expression." - Ansel Adams

>If you're concerned about card capacity with the D800 in RAW
>mode, you might consider shooting 12 bit compressed as Thom
>Hogan suggests. You lose minimal image quality in this mode as
>he explains in a recent posting:
>
>http://www.bythom.com/

Yeah, but... I like a couple other things he said:

>If you're really that worried about raw file size
>with a D800 (why exactly did you buy it if you are?)

Which I think is a very fair comment.

This is fairly old information but I think it still applies as 12 and 14 still have the same math:

http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/nikon-d300-d3-14-bit-versus-12-bit.html

It's not highlight detail it's shadow detail. I do not know this to be true, but I would argue with higher dynamic range on the D800, you need this additional bit depth even more, as it has more to loose.

Incidentally all those focused on RAW size better be using Lightroom or NX, and not Photoshop or anything that creates a TIFF. If you haven't tried that yet, take a full frame image and create a TIFF (in 16 bits of course), and then you'll REALLY wonder about how big these things are. Rough estimate is someone editing 16 bit TIFF's for each image will fill a terabyte in about 4000 shots, and that's if they do not do layers.

Makes one really appreciate lightroom and other NEF base editors.


Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

I am using Lexar 400x 64gb SD and CF cards in my d800 and they work fine.

________________________________________
Frank

My Web Page

My Nikonians gallery

>That's great. How does that affect real-world shooting - or
>how will it for the D800? Will the fps rate of the D800
>exceed SD card writing speed?
>
>

In my experience, I started by using a Sandisk Ultra Class 10 (30 MB/s) card. I found the writing to be unacceptably slow. In particular, when I was bracketing shots using live view, I found that the camera would often not allow me to start a new task until it had finished writing all of the images in its buffer.

When Amazon had them on a lightning deal, I got a Sandisk Extreme Pro (95 MB/s). I have seen a MAJOR improvement, and now rarely have to wait any appreciable length of time for buffering to finish.

They are much more expensive (got my 32 GB for $80) but the faster card has made a major improvement in the photo taking

I have had more problems with CF than I care to recount. It's those darn connection pins - they always sem to get bent, breaking the card and/or reader.

Since my MBP has a SD reader, the convenience alone would make it worthwhile for me to only use SD. Throw in the high breakage rate (not to mention needing extra adapters) and the CF slot is relegated to backup only for me.

BTW - I was talking about SD cards here, if you couldn't figure that out.

I am skeptical, but may try it out.

One of the things that has most impressed me with the D800 is just how well I can pull nearly noiseless detail out of shadows. I would hate to do anything that might compromise it. I can add a 2 TB drive to my array for a hundred bucks. I can't pull out shadow detail if the 12 bit version is lacking relative to the 14.