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buckreynolds

US
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buckreynolds Registered since 11th Jan 2009
Thu 06-Sep-12 11:07 PM

Hello:

I generally do portraits. However, my daughters are competing in gymnastics and I am trying to capture good images of their efforts. I have used my D90 with the recent 85 1.8G, and when they are in range, the results are very nice. I get some subject isolation and pleasant colors.

However, gymnastics is not often a convenient sport for spectators. It is spread out all over the place. I want to reach out a bit.

Two approaches occur to me. A longer lens would certainly do the trick, though speed is at a premium because the lighting is universally poor in these gyms. That makes the longer lens costly.

Or, I could get a used V1 with adaptor, and slap my 85mm lens on that. I end up with the much discussed smaller sensor and the huge crop factor.

I wonder which approach you would recommend. Thank you in advance for your response.

Best wishes to all Nikonians

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nwcs

Knoxville, US
6929 posts

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#1. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 0

nwcs Silver Member Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Landscape and Wildlife Photography Nikonian since 15th Jan 2006
Thu 06-Sep-12 11:32 PM

I'd definitely consider the V1 and the FT1 adapter. Just multiple by 2.7 for the range and you get the same aperture. I would say a 70-200 would be fantastic in that situation. The image will have a little less "quality" to them due to the smaller sensor but if properly exposed you wouldn't know the difference really. Also easier to get through security if you're having smaller lenses than really big ones.

glennaa11

Arlington, US
448 posts

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#2. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 0

glennaa11 Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Aug 2004
Wed 12-Sep-12 02:00 AM

I think trying the FT1 with 85mm is a good idea.

Also don't discount the "Smart Photo Selector" shooting mode that shoots a burst of photos. I used it shooting a soccer game last week and the results were quite good...albeit in bright sunlight, 30-110mm lens, high shutter speed.

Glenn
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buckreynolds

US
32 posts

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#3. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 2

buckreynolds Registered since 11th Jan 2009
Wed 12-Sep-12 02:42 AM

Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

I've been scouring eBay for the camera with the adaptor. I think this is a good way to get the extra reach.

Best wishes to all Nikonians

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nwcs

Knoxville, US
6929 posts

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#4. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 3

nwcs Silver Member Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Landscape and Wildlife Photography Nikonian since 15th Jan 2006
Wed 12-Sep-12 04:10 PM

It works pretty nicely. The other day I took this picture of a rabbit in the yard. It was shot with the V1, FT1 + 70-200 at f/5. I cropped it only slightly.


Click on image to view larger version


Attachment #1, (jpg file)

ithompson72

Chichester, UK
68 posts

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#5. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 1

ithompson72 Silver Member Nikonian since 13th Aug 2008
Wed 12-Sep-12 07:27 PM

>I'd definitely consider the V1 and the FT1 adapter. Just
>multiple by 2.7 for the range and you get the same aperture. I
>would say a 70-200 would be fantastic in that situation. The
>image will have a little less "quality" to them due
>to the smaller sensor but if properly exposed you wouldn't
>know the difference really. Also easier to get through
>security if you're having smaller lenses than really big
>ones.

Don't forget that compared to the D90 it is a multiplication of around 1.5 not 2.7 (only 2.7 compared to FX.

But, add an inexpensive 70-300 VR and the V1 becomes a great long lens camera.

buckreynolds

US
32 posts

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#6. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 4

buckreynolds Registered since 11th Jan 2009
Wed 12-Sep-12 09:28 PM

Nicely is an understatement. What a great little image. He's popping out of the grass. Do you recommend the old or the newer 70-200?

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JonK

New York, US
5680 posts

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#7. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 6

JonK Moderator Awarded for his high level skills and in-depth knowledge in various areas, such as Wildlife, Landscape and Stage Photography Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 03rd Jul 2004
Thu 13-Sep-12 12:21 AM

While the new version is slightly better, the improvement is mostly noticeable on a full frame body. For you a 70-200 version I would be a wonderful addition, near perfect for gymnastics.

And there are a couple in the For Sale forum…

Jon Kandel
A New York City Nikonian and Team Member
Please visit my website and critique the images!

gpoole

Farmington Hills, US
3942 posts

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#8. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 5

gpoole Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Awarded for his very generous support to the Fundrasing Campaing 2014 Writer Ribbon awarded for his article contributions for the Articles library and the eZine Nikonian since 14th Feb 2004
Thu 13-Sep-12 12:27 AM | edited Thu 13-Sep-12 12:28 AM by gpoole

Actually 1/8X relative to DX.

You'll lose subject isolation compared to DX though.

Gary in SE Michigan, USA. Co-organizer of the Southern Michigan Chapter
Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera.
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ithompson72

Chichester, UK
68 posts

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#9. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 8

ithompson72 Silver Member Nikonian since 13th Aug 2008
Thu 13-Sep-12 06:57 AM

Sorry, yes 1.8x.

nwcs

Knoxville, US
6929 posts

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#10. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 6

nwcs Silver Member Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Landscape and Wildlife Photography Nikonian since 15th Jan 2006
Thu 13-Sep-12 05:22 PM

I agree, the older one is perfectly fine. In fact, I use the older one for both my V1 and the D800. It does take a little getting used to, though.

buckreynolds

US
32 posts

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#11. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 10

buckreynolds Registered since 11th Jan 2009
Thu 13-Sep-12 06:16 PM

If I could bother you some more, what are the quirks that you have to get used to with the 70-200?

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JonK

New York, US
5680 posts

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#12. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 11

JonK Moderator Awarded for his high level skills and in-depth knowledge in various areas, such as Wildlife, Landscape and Stage Photography Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 03rd Jul 2004
Thu 13-Sep-12 11:19 PM

Quirks? None, really. It's probably my most-used lens. About the only complaint I ever hear or read here is that it is a bit big and heavy. It was part of my walk-aorund lens set for years, paired with the 24-70 (no lightweight, either!).

This year I acquired a 24-120 and a 70-300 for walk around use (one at a time). But for serious work, low light work, action work, I still reach for the 70-200. It simply cannot be beat.

Jon Kandel
A New York City Nikonian and Team Member
Please visit my website and critique the images!

nwcs

Knoxville, US
6929 posts

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#13. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 11

nwcs Silver Member Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Landscape and Wildlife Photography Nikonian since 15th Jan 2006
Fri 14-Sep-12 01:09 AM

Mostly the fact that you have only AF-S focusing on the V1.

buckreynolds

US
32 posts

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#14. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 13

buckreynolds Registered since 11th Jan 2009
Fri 14-Sep-12 01:30 AM

Thank you all for your learned opinions. I just "won" a V1 on eBay with a 10-30 and 30-110. The adaptors are rarely at auction, so I guess it will have to be Amazon for that piece.

The 70-200 zoom is now in my plans. You've convinced me that that lens would solve the question that started this thread.

I truly appreciate the time you took to respond. This is a great community.

Best wishes to all Nikonians

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

buckreynolds

US
32 posts

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#15. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 14

buckreynolds Registered since 11th Jan 2009
Mon 24-Sep-12 03:20 AM

I received the V1, and took it to our first event of the season. The girls want videos, and I like to get stills. But I am the entire AV Squad here, so what am I to do?

Use the V1 to shoot the video, and occasionally press the shutter button to capture a still. You don't get a NEF file to play with, but it sure is fun to be able to multi-task like this.

Waiting to Compete

Click on image to view larger version


Attachment #1, (jpg file)

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avm247

Rancho Cordova, US
18699 posts

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#16. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 15

avm247 Moderator Awarded for high skills in documentary architecture and aviation photography Donor Ribbon. Awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Charter Member
Fri 05-Oct-12 04:43 PM

Nice shot, Bucky.

I'm seriously contemplating a V1 (or probably going to be announced soon V2 based on recent price drops), and was wondering how this would work for action. So if you get any shots of the gymnist tumbling and jumping it would be great.


Anthony

The Moderator Page and My Gallery
The important things in life are simple; the simple things are hard.

buckreynolds

US
32 posts

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#17. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 16

buckreynolds Registered since 11th Jan 2009
Fri 05-Oct-12 04:46 PM | edited Fri 05-Oct-12 04:47 PM by buckreynolds

Thank you Anthony.

The 30-100 lens is too slow to freeze action well. All of my usable stills were taken when she was, well, still. I am going to try a faster lens attached to the FT-1 adaptor. I'll post an update.

Best wishes to all Nikonians

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kenuck

Burnaby, CA
114 posts

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#18. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 17

kenuck Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Nov 2008
Mon 08-Oct-12 03:17 PM

>Thank you Anthony.
>
>The 30-100 lens is too slow to freeze action well. All of my
>usable stills were taken when she was, well, still. I am going
>to try a faster lens attached to the FT-1 adaptor. I'll post
>an update.

Should that be qualified as too slow for indoor action? Outdoors on a sunny day with ISO200 you would be about 1/1600 at f/5.6. I agree, however, we do need some faster 1 System long lenses...please Nikon

Ken

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buckreynolds

US
32 posts

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#19. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 18

buckreynolds Registered since 11th Jan 2009
Mon 08-Oct-12 03:30 PM

I agree Ken. Indoor action is the problem, especially in poorly lit gyms (and they all are). I'm on board for the faster long lens as well. Maybe when they release V2.

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KnightPhoto

Alberta, CA
4644 posts

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#20. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 19

KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006
Tue 16-Oct-12 04:07 AM | edited Tue 16-Oct-12 04:11 AM by KnightPhoto

The 70-200 might be more reach than you need and a little difficult ergonomics on the V1. It is a great lens though, and yes a used VR-1 should be fine since you'll only be using the central portions of the lens due to the 2.7 crop.

Have you tried the 85 f/1.8G? At 230mm FOV and f/1.8 it might be a decent choice.

AF-S with the FT-1 means though that you are going to have to pre-focus and then leave the focus alone which is fine for some gymnastics events but of course near useless for floor.

All in all this goes back to favouring your D90 and the 70-200 which then delivers AF-C

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
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KnightPhoto

Alberta, CA
4644 posts

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#21. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 18

KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006
Tue 16-Oct-12 09:19 AM

> I agree, however, we do need some faster 1 System
>long lenses...please Nikon

I agree. I don't know if Nikon realizes what they have their hands on here with the 2.7 crop but it would solve a few peoples telephoto problems with the 2.7 crop:

- let's see, a fast, light, comparatively inexpensive long birding lens - know how many people are awaiting a 300mm with VR or an updated 80-400 for DX and FX

- same goes for sports.

- for us birders a lens going out to 600 or 800mm FOV, say f/5.6 would also be welcome.

- on CX any of these would be a potential large seller.

I read recently where Thom doesn't think "Nikon sees us wildlife shooters very well". I wish they would, we buy a LOT of product.

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
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buckreynolds

US
32 posts

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#22. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 20

buckreynolds Registered since 11th Jan 2009
Mon 22-Oct-12 10:45 PM

All great observations Steve. It seems that I have a lot of great pieces that don't fit together very well for this particular process.

I tried my 85 mm 1.8 with the V1, but in in the video mode some stripes appear on the image (both for video and still). I could only fix it by going back to the basic setting, which precluded shutter priority, which meant that the stills were shot at something like 1/50 of a second. That won't freeze action.

I took some stills outside with the 85 and they were lovely. With a lot of light, this is a great combination. With limited light, not so much. Of course, on the D90 it is a dreamy lens.

This past weekend I did a combination. I shot video with the V1 and its zoom lens, and hung the D90 around my neck for stills (in between events). That worked better.

However, as I keep moaning, gym light is AWFUL. Even at 1.8, the D90 wanted to move up to 1600 ISO to shoot at 1/500 - 1/800 (where I can stop the action). Images out of my D90 at 1600 are usually pretty ugly with noise and smudges. That's why I like to cap the ISO range at 400.

So, it seems that to shoot in gyms with that great 70-200 zoom (which tops out at 2.8) I will need even more ISO. Perhaps zooming in closer to the subject will help. But I'm now worried that the zoom lens/camera combination will be thwarted by the D90 sensor.

Thanks again for your comments.

Best wishes to all Nikonians

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

KnightPhoto

Alberta, CA
4644 posts

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#23. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 22

KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006
Mon 22-Oct-12 11:44 PM

I forget if we discussed this in this thread, but for gymnastics the real solution is any of the FX cameras. I just sold my 34,000 actuation D700 for $1,500, so a used D700 get's you in the game for a more reasonable price these days. I paid $3159 back in the day.

My daughter is in Musical Theatre if you want to talk about bad light and fast action. I now have a D4. It rocks, killer cam of course. I earn a bit of income through Theatre to partially offset the costs. You could go that route, but semi-pro sales is a lot of work too, no bones about it!

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
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buckreynolds

US
32 posts

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#24. "RE: Shooting long" | In response to Reply # 23

buckreynolds Registered since 11th Jan 2009
Mon 22-Oct-12 11:49 PM

I hear a D600 calling me.

Best wishes to all Nikonians

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G