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eagle101st Registered since 23rd Oct 2010Sun 24-Oct-10 09:39 PM
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"First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
Sun 24-Oct-10 09:40 PM by eagle101st

US
          

My first post! After my point and shoot thoroughly let me down trying to snap pictures of my son's Belt Testing for Taekwando, I am buying a Digital SLR. I want to be able to shoot action so Zooming is important. I want to buy the Nikon D7000 (when it is out) and was wondering to buy the Kit or the just the body and buy a lens separately?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Sun 24-Oct-10 10:46 PM
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#1. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 0


Lowden, US
          

Welcome to Nikonians Micheal!

Since this is your first DSLR I think getting the kit is probably a good way to go. The kit lenses are really quit good these days. You can then use the kit lens to get a feel for using the more advanced camera. Later on if you find limitations with the kit lens you will have gained a better perspective when making lens buying decisions.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
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JosephK Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Nikonian since 17th Apr 2006Sun 24-Oct-10 10:52 PM
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#2. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 0


Seattle, WA, US
          

A quick glance at two online stores suggests that the common kit lens is the 18-105mm.

If posts in the sports forum are any indication, your martial arts are probably done in as bad lighting as most indoor school sports. If so, you will be either using a flash, or upping the ISO quite a bit. This would also suggest that none of the consumer-grade zooms are going to help you in this endeavor. Depending on how close you can get to the action, the f/1.x prime lenses are good choices. If you want to spend the $$$ you can look at the f/2.8 primes.

It is also possible that the competitions are moderately well lit and that the D7000 does well at the high ISO levels. My recommendation would be to get the "kit" lens and see where you need to go from there.

---------+---------+---------+---------+
Joseph K
Seattle, WA, USA

D200, 17-55mm f/2.8 DX, 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, 50mm f/1.4 D
18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX, 70-300mm f/4-5.6 ED, D70S

  

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eagle101st Registered since 23rd Oct 2010Sun 24-Oct-10 11:28 PM
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#3. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

Thank you for the welcome and the tips! It makes sense to start off slow and get the feel for the camera first before shelling out money on lenses I know nothing about. I have a lot to learn.

It is funny, I first owned Nikon point and shoots (Coolpix 775 and Coolpix 995) then switched to Canon point and shoots (Canon SX100 IS) and I have been impressed (on paper) with the Nikon DSLR's over the Canon's (in my price range).

  

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wwt67 Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2010Mon 25-Oct-10 12:06 AM
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#4. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 3


Warsaw, US
          

How close can you get to the action? How bright is the lighting?
I'm guessing the kit lens may give you enough zoom.
The D7000 will let you go to iso 1600 with noise reduction set to low, or 3200 with NR on normal with great quality. ISO 6400...only if you need it. So a really fast lens may not be important until you get a feel for what you need.
Can you be more specific on the environment you'll be shooting in?

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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eagle101st Registered since 23rd Oct 2010Mon 25-Oct-10 07:43 AM
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#5. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 4


US
          

>How close can you get to the action? How bright is the
>lighting?
>I'm guessing the kit lens may give you enough zoom.
>The D7000 will let you go to iso 1600 with noise reduction set
>to low, or 3200 with NR on normal with great quality. ISO
>6400...only if you need it. So a really fast lens may not be
>important until you get a feel for what you need.
>Can you be more specific on the environment you'll be shooting
>in?

At least for now, I will be shooting indoors and the environment appears to be well lit florescent light. The room is pretty bland (white walls and blue floor mats but one of the sides of the walls is mirrored)I am usually sitting 10 feet away from the action. Given the mirrored wall on the right, I may want to avoid a flash. Here is a link to the dojo's website: http://taosports.us/ The photos are pretty bad on the site.

With the standard kit lens, how close can I get? How does mm convert to feet (or does it)?

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Mon 25-Oct-10 09:18 AM
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#6. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 5


Richmond, US
          

"Well lit" is one thing for a human eye, and may well be entirely different for a camera attempting to stop action.

mm doesn't necessarily convert to feet - it also depends on what shot you want to take, and to a lesser degree how you want to render the image.

To answer your question literally, the kit lens will focus to something like a meter - so close that you'll have a really intimate view, if you so choose... But more likely you want to know how far away you can stand and still fill the frame with some subject. A rough guideline is that on a DX body a 35mm lens is like what you see with your eyes. A 105mm lens therefore is about 3x closer (3 * 35 = 105).

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Mon 25-Oct-10 10:28 AM
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#7. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 5


St Petersburg, RU
          

Eagle
With the light walls reflecting light back into the room, and the overhead lighting you are going to have no problem with enough shutter speed to freeze the action and get whole scenes or with the zoom end of 105mm, from 10 feet to fill a frame with a head and little bit of shoulders. This is a good choice of focal lengths for you, and a great choice of camera. The web site images show pretty diffused light with no harsh shadows so sharp well exposed images should result after a little practice.
We expect to see some very good images posted to your Nikonian's Gallery;>)

But do not be surprised if the other parents put down their point and shoot cameras, Canon DSLRs and other brand gear and ask to buy some of your shots after seeing them!

Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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jbloom Gold Member Awarded for the continuous and generous sharing of his high level expertise and his always encouraging comments in several forums. Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Mon 25-Oct-10 10:38 AM
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#8. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 5


Wethersfield, US
          

While the kit zoom lens is attractive from the standpoint of its focal length range, I'm dubious about its ability to handle action shooting indoors. While I haven't shot in a dojo, I shoot a lot in school gyms, and the kit lens wouldn't be up to the task there. Perhaps the dojo is better lit since the lights are closer than what I'm used to in a gym. I'm not sure I would count on it.

If you expect to be about 10-12 feet from the action, the lens I would recommend is the AF-S DX 35mm f/1.8G. At a distance of 10 feet on a D7000, that will cover an object of about 6-1/2 feet size on the long dimension of the frame (about 4-1/2 feet on the short dimension of the frame). I think that angle of view would work well for you, and that lens is optically fast (f/1.8), allowing you to make the most of dim lighting. Plus, it's one of the least expensive lenses Nikon makes (but an excellent lens nonetheless).

If you want to explore the relationship between lens focal length and subject size more, you can do so using this online calculator. (Use "digital SLR with CF of 1.5x" as the camera type for the Nikon D7000.)

Depending on your budget, it would make sense to get the camera with the kit lens anyway, for general photography. I'm sure you'll want to use it to take pictures of your son's outdoor activities as well. Then if that proves inadequate in the dojo, you can easily acquire the 35/1.8 lens for use there. Besides, right now the D7000 is mostly available only as the kit. The body-only option doesn't seem to be in stock anywhere. Not that the D7000 is the only body you could use, but it's the newest and looks like a good bet.

-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports Photos

  

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intrepidnz Registered since 18th Nov 2004Mon 25-Oct-10 06:50 PM
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#9. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 0


NZ
          

From the question in your post, I would say go with the kit lens for now.

That will give you a chance to learn how a DSLR works and it also gives you a chance to learn about the lens. Then you will know what limitations the kit lens has for you, whether you want to go wider, longer, closer or faster.

Your style of photography will be unique to you and you will be find out in due course, what a style of photography you end up developing.

Yes, listen to others but experiment with your own camera and see what works or what doesn't. Its up to you to find out what makes YOU want to go out and take photos!! Some of that will be equipment, some will be technique but the key point will be inspiration. The amalgalm of the three will be your style!

And above all, have fun!!

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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eagle101st Registered since 23rd Oct 2010Mon 25-Oct-10 08:52 PM
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#10. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 9


US
          

>From the question in your post, I would say go with the kit
>lens for now.
>
>That will give you a chance to learn how a DSLR works and it
>also gives you a chance to learn about the lens. Then you
>will know what limitations the kit lens has for you, whether
>you want to go wider, longer, closer or faster.
>
>Your style of photography will be unique to you and you will
>be find out in due course, what a style of photography you end
>up developing.
>
>Yes, listen to others but experiment with your own camera and
>see what works or what doesn't. Its up to you to find out
>what makes YOU want to go out and take photos!! Some of that
>will be equipment, some will be technique but the key point
>will be inspiration. The amalgalm of the three will be your
>style!
>
>And above all, have fun!!

Very nicely said! This is one venture that I should not dive head first into. I think I will really like learning a new hobby.

  

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KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Tue 26-Oct-10 03:59 AM
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#11. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 0


Alberta, CA
          

I would add reference to the 85mm f1.8 lens. I used to own this lens and it was very good in Theatre for very dim situations. I personally think this would be a much better lens for martial arts than a kit lens operating at 3 stops slower. Meaning at any given ISO the kit lens could give you 1/125 second whereas the 85mm f1.8 can deliver action stopping 1/1000 of a second. That very quick shutter speed is a huge huge difference in usability of the resulting photos.

Maybe get the kit lenses as a general photography lens (for which the kit is very good) but add the 85mm for the martial arts. If cost is a barrier then get the 85mm first - it will make a real difference where you need it most importantly and get the 18-105 lens later for your general photography.

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
My Nikonians gallery
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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Tue 26-Oct-10 05:38 AM
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#12. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 11


St Petersburg, RU
          

Hi Steve
Yes, the 85 is a wonderful lens that most people would get a lot out of but at 10 feet an 85 would be pretty limiting in how much of the the action would fit in the frame. At wider focal lengths, the kit is f/3.5 which is about where the 85 would need to be set to get enough DOF to get two people in odd positions in relationship to each other fully in focus. The 85 1.8 is a very good lens, certainly, but it couldn't be used wide open in this situation, nor is it very fast to focus, slightly slower then the 18-105vr. It is not a ice hockey game, the action in those age groups will be at modest speed, however, so as to make 1/250 probably all the shutter speed needed. From the photos posted to the web site, the light is a lot better than any other amateur indoor sports I am familiar with. At 10 feet the 35 1.8 might be needed to get both people fully in the frame. Based on all these factors the very useful range of the kit lens would still be suitable for this application.

Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Wed 27-Oct-10 12:11 AM
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#13. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 12


Alberta, CA
          

Allow me then to adjust my advice to the OP (Michael) - consider then getting two primes, BOTH the 35 and 85mm f1.8 lenses

The reasons I offer this for thought is:
- firstly a stylistic one. I like to shoot tight, focussing the viewers attention on a component of the action particularly faces and dramatic arm/leg lines. You would use the 85mm to do this.
- the 35mm would be used to show a wider view of the complete action.
- both lenses are fast f1.8 and I would probably shoot them at f2 or f2.2 in dim light or even f2.8 if light is brighter.
- I detest unintentional motion blur. You want to get these sharp (aside from ones where you use slow shutter on purpose to show motion - that is a separate matter).
- in a different line of shooting I constantly encounter parents who are shooting too loose (too wide a field of view) and with kit lenses that neither provide enough light nor enough reach. You want your photos to be dramatic. This last advice applies regardless of what equipment you decide to start with.

Good luck and don't forget to post some examples!

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
My Nikonians gallery
My Nikonians Blog

  

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RRRoger Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his long history of demonstrated excellence and helping other members with equipment, technique and DSLR video in the true Nikonians spirit. Charter MemberWed 27-Oct-10 01:53 AM
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#14. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 13


Monterey Bay, US
          

I am thinking that you may not have a choice.
So far, Nikon has only released kits.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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eagle101st Registered since 23rd Oct 2010Wed 27-Oct-10 11:57 AM
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#15. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 13


US
          

>Allow me then to adjust my advice to the OP (Michael) -
>consider then getting two primes, BOTH the 35 and 85mm f1.8
>lenses
>
>The reasons I offer this for thought is:
>- firstly a stylistic one. I like to shoot tight, focussing
>the viewers attention on a component of the action
>particularly faces and dramatic arm/leg lines. You would use
>the 85mm to do this.
>- the 35mm would be used to show a wider view of the complete
>action.
>- both lenses are fast f1.8 and I would probably shoot them at
>f2 or f2.2 in dim light or even f2.8 if light is brighter.
>- I detest unintentional motion blur. You want to get these
>sharp (aside from ones where you use slow shutter on purpose
>to show motion - that is a separate matter).
>- in a different line of shooting I constantly encounter
>parents who are shooting too loose (too wide a field of view)
>and with kit lenses that neither provide enough light nor
>enough reach. You want your photos to be dramatic. This last
>advice applies regardless of what equipment you decide to
>start with.
>
>Good luck and don't forget to post some examples!
>
>Best regards, SteveK


Thank you so much for the advice...which 85mm lens would you recommend. I do not like motion at all too

  

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KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Wed 27-Oct-10 02:03 PM
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#16. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 15


Alberta, CA
          

Hi Michael,

I would recommend the Nikon 85mm f1.8D lens. You should be able to pick it up for less than $500 or consider a used one from www.keh.com.

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
My Nikonians gallery
My Nikonians Blog

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Wed 27-Oct-10 03:12 PM
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#17. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 15


St Petersburg, RU
          

Before paying $500 for a lens, make sure you can live with not having a wide enough field of view to get a whole person in a frame unless you move way back from your 10 foot vantage point. Otherwise it will be difficult to compose the shot to convey what it is about or what the person is doing.

The other most popular 85 are two versions of the f/1.4. The older one goes for about $950 used and the new version is $1700-1800 new.
Sigma makes a new 85 1.4 that should be very good, don't know the street price yet because is just getting into stores, maybe $900.

Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Thu 28-Oct-10 12:19 AM
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#18. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 17


Alberta, CA
          

Stan's advice of caution is good and might be further motivation to buying used. That way you could re-sell the lens at little to no loss if it didn't work out.

I am going to give the Sigma 85mm a serious look too but for the moment I'll need to digest the D7000 purchase. It looks like a great cam!

I also think the Sigma 50mm f1.4 could be a good fit for you to consider but I don't mean to confuse your choices any further . I really like mine and the Sigma is said to be a little faster focusing than the Nikon f1.4. And the 50mm f1.8 is one of the BEST bargains around now that I think about it!

Sorry about all the digressions. I can tell you from experience assembling a lens kit is much more a journey than a destination. Assembling a small prime lens kit is quite rewarding though!

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
My Nikonians gallery
My Nikonians Blog

  

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eagle101st Registered since 23rd Oct 2010Thu 28-Oct-10 04:02 AM
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#19. "RE: First Time DSLR buyer question: Nikon D7000 Kit or Body?"
In response to Reply # 18


US
          

>Stan's advice of caution is good and might be further
>motivation to buying used. That way you could re-sell the lens
>at little to no loss if it didn't work out.
>
>I am going to give the Sigma 85mm a serious look too but for
>the moment I'll need to digest the D7000 purchase. It looks
>like a great cam!
>
>I also think the Sigma 50mm f1.4 could be a good fit for you
>to consider but I don't mean to confuse your choices any
>further . I really like mine and the Sigma is said to be a
>little faster focusing than the Nikon f1.4. And the 50mm f1.8
>is one of the BEST bargains around now that I think about it!
>
>Sorry about all the digressions. I can tell you from
>experience assembling a lens kit is much more a journey than a
>destination. Assembling a small prime lens kit is quite
>rewarding though!
>

No confusion at all. I appreciate the recommendations

  

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