Seems like overnight the price of a new D300s has dropped by $200-300 locally.
The price difference here between the D7000 and the D300s is now about $100.
I actually think the price of the D300s is going to fall below the D7000 within 6 months. I can't imagine (arguments over CF cards and buttons vs. menus notwithstanding) why anyone would pay more for a D300s with the D7000 available.
#1. "RE: D7000's ripple effect" In response to Reply # 0
Well Jason, you could be right about the price and if I were coming from a D90(or smaller) that I was happy with then the D7000 would look very good (and I do think it looks like a winner).
However, I bought a D200 over a D80 when I went DSLR due to the ergonomics, build, size and weight. I have stuck with the same criteria. Now there are 'buttons' and features (FPS and buffers for instance as pointed out by Jim Pearce) that I do want.
In six months the price could be dropping due to a D400 (?) that blows the D7000 away. Bye-the-bye, I paid more for the D200 in 2007 than the D80/18-70 kit even though the D80 was the newer and D300 rumours were already about . Heck, I'm one of the people that would like to see a Dx D3s equiv. . Perfect 2 body pairing .
I have four different cameras with the multi-cam 3500 that I use mainly for birds, sport, 'street', PJ and events. An even better AF system is always going to be welcome but no indication yet that the cam 4800 is better, just different.
Different strokes for different folks. Cheers, Tom
#2. "RE: D7000's ripple effect" In response to Reply # 1
Yes no doubt that familiarity will be a factor for some people and it is certainly a relevant consideration. I can actually appreciate this position because I choose a RRS BH-55 over a Markins M20 (despite it being more expensive and 2x as heavy/bulky) due to ergonomics alone. When it comes to cameras, I still think, perhaps wrongly, that people will look at image quality first and foremost, and the features on the camera that will result in better images in the circumstances in which they shoot. Right now, it is difficult to conceive of a situation (unless the Cam4800dx turns out to suck) that the D7000 won't have an advantage over the 300s when it comes to image quality.
I have actually said that I fully expect a new DX flagship (D400 or D9000 whatever they choose to call it) to be released by Nikon within the next year (if for no other reason then what I stated in my post, very few people imo are going to choose the 300s over the 7000 based on feature set and price, even if the 300s is priced slightly below the D7000). That being said the likelihood of the new model 'blowing away' the D7000 is slim to none imho. The D300s did not 'blow away' the D90 despite being released a year later. Further, the D7000 appears to have upgrades to all the major camera components that would impact image quality, sensor, AF module, meter, etc. Unlikely Nikon is going to significantly redesign these elements for a new DX model in the next year or two. The new DX flagship will certainly sell, but imo it will because feature set and image quality will be the equal of the D7000, plus it will have the ergonomics and build that people who like the bigger 'Pro' type bodies have come to know and love.
#3. "RE: D7000's ripple effect" In response to Reply # 2 Sat 25-Sep-10 05:16 PM by pdekman
Good summary of the considerations that different shooters face at the moment. This reflects some of my thinking as a D200 shooter who is now ready for an upgrade to better ISO performance and improved AF.
I can purchase the D7K or D300s for comparable cost, or pick up a used D300 for even less. Each is better than what I currently own - in areas that matter to my shooting - so I'm ready to purchase.
The deciding factor for me is a desire to own two bodies for photo trips, and that my wife is beginning to get more interested in learning photography - God bless her! With that in mind, I think I'll ditch the past and move forward with a D7K/D200 now and trade up to a D400/D7K future. (i.e. I'll just NAS my way through a tough decision )
The D7K is weather sealed, responsive, handles older lenses, will program to AF-On usage, and has Mirror-Up capability. It does not have a 10-pin connector for accessories, but I think that is a fair trade for the latest in sensor technology, 14-bit image pipeline and better video capabilities. I'll guess that the new battery will be the same as the D400 and that they will share menu/selector ergonomics as well.
I've had my D200 since Dec-05 and it has been a great purchase. If pressed to own a single camera, I'd probably trade for a used D300 now and wait for the D400 to arrive.
#4. "RE: D7000's ripple effect" In response to Reply # 2
St Petersburg, RU
The D7000 IS a lot different than prior enthusiast cameras, it has most of the features that set the "pro" style bodies apart from consumer cameras, just in a smaller case. It is much closer to a D300 in function than it is to the D90/D80/D70 class. Other than a switch being replaced by the control wheel, and a button or two there is really is little difference between it and the Dx00 class cameras. What really can a D400 deliver in case and handling that is that much different....maybe faster frame rate, and higher bandwidth video and frame rate, maybe larger buffer, possibly a tweaked version of the CAM4800, if not the D4 AF system? Some people equate weight with greater durability but materials science keeps proving that wrong. As we see from the D90 all high impact plastic outer shell, and aluminum inner chassis has been very rugged and reliable, taking a lot of abuse and still looking and working good. Or modern autos that have reliability and survivability along with lower weight. And a lot lower maintenance costs. Most remember back when oil changes were needed every 3,000 miles. Usability tests probably also will show that pressing a button and simultaneously using a thumb wheel to be faster and easier to repeat than a larger number individual switches, in all sorts of user interfaces, that has been true. Muscle memory can work faster when fewer options are to be programmed which has led user interface designers to create fewer input triggers while combining combinations instead of more numerous single function input devices. The first typewriters for example were slower because there were separate keys for upper and lower case. Typing sped up a lot once the number of key dropped in half, and the shift key was added. So it probably will turn out that separate switches for a couple of functions are only preferred by those who know only a legacy method of inputting commands, but new users would not have that bias. Right now there are two views on the D7000, the newer adopters of DSLRs probably see no advantage to the larger heavy body D300 and in fact enough negatives to eliminate it from consideration. Meanwhile a smaller market of those who have not tried newer methods will reject the newer higher performance cameras out of hand. In photo taking capabilities, the D7000 is clearly ahead of the D300 series, and there was almost no difference between the D90 and D300 in actual output. Objectively, the mechanical differences between the D7000 and D300s are not enough to overcome the advantages of the D7000 in basic photo performance so essentially the D300s is now dead as a viable product. The prices will drop until production stops if it hasn't already and inventories are exhausted. If the class of camera is to continue to exist, a newer more modern camera needs to be released to resurrect the class. Stan St Petersburg Russia
#5. "RE: D7000's ripple effect" In response to Reply # 4
Stan, well I do not equate weight with quality which is why I listed both. I bought a D40x as a backup to my first D200 and never did like the size or weight. My wife has a new D90 and even though I use it but I prefer the D300/s etc.
I am very interested to see what the D7000 is capable of. The metering sensor, the new 16MP, better iso and very interested in the m-cam 4800 but will wait until the camera is out and in use for user reports/photos. Will also wait until some sport/bird/wildlife shooters start using and reporting in.
From looking at your gallery (very nice) and coming from a D90 it will probably be a very good choice (although I would probably prefer my D700 ).
Sure, I could get used to different control systems but WHY .
Based on your last sentence you seem convinced by specs that the D7000 is a better overall than the D300s. Could be, but too early to tell. Cheers, Tom
#6. "RE: D7000's ripple effect" In response to Reply # 5
St Petersburg, RU
For basic camera functions, the specs do tell a story of a camera with higher resolution, lower noise, a more sophisticated metering system, and if following the legacy of the D90 higher base ISO DR.....to me adds up to a camera that greatly exceeds the D90 which has essentially the same IS, although wider DR, than the D300. So concluding the IQ superiority of the D7000 over the D300 is not an extravagant claim, it would be the most conservative claim.
My own playing with the D300s belonging to a friend, who shoots in some of the same venues I do, is that the only point that his shooting was positively enhanced over mine was the AF system was faster and was more accurate on the outer focus points. I always used the center cross-polarized point since it worked so much better in the dark environments. If he missed a shot it was do to pilot error, if I missed a shot is was pilot and or possibly recomposing from the lock on of the center point, resulted in oof. But otherwise they were both close and we both got 50% more in focus, properly exposed images than our friends who use 7d and 5dII in the same venues. They had a poorer result because of unpredictable focus in low light despite having a lot more experience.
All these issues considered, the fact remains that what camera was used is still and will always be the least important element in determining if a photo is compelling, interesting and communicates. Way too much emphasis is placed on new models and specs primarily because all else is hard to quantify, measure or rank. As with most hobbies most people focus on the trappings of the hobby, the lore, traditions, equipment, individual specs instead of actually doing the hobby. I find myself somewhere in the middle ground, the tech stuff is fascinating, the engineer in me, but I also get caught up in shooting massive amounts, 400-600 a night and at the end of the night guessing the 6-7 hours was over in a flash, and assuming 80 shots where made....
I've a number of hobbies where the equipment is the prime interest to me. When I got into flying I discovered I tinker with, repair, rebuild my plane more than actually fly it. Same with Amateur "Ham" radio, I was passionate about it as a kid, and learned all I could about electronics from age 10 because it was related. I found I was mostly fascinated later on by experimenting, designing and building gear and spending little time actually using it. And high quality audio systems, I design, build and tweak all sorts of exotic audio gear yet do not even own a sound system to listen to anything. Photography is one that is the most balanced for me, liking gear but also get all wrapped up in lots of experimenting and shooting where time stands still and I forget that I had an appointment or that I was out shooting for 10 hours but planned on 2. The D7000 is very very exciting to me but it would not change any of my subjects(well, maybe more available light), or results. Mostly I like to shoot people, and having a connection with them, like those in the gallery, all personal friends, is a real joy. Stan St Petersburg Russia
#7. "RE: D7000's ripple effect" In response to Reply # 6
Stan, you make a lot of good points. At this point in the hobby, coming from a D60 to a D7000 would be a huge step up in control. While I thought it would have all the external controls that I thought I would need, in trying to shoot exclusively in A, S and M modes, I can now see the advantage to having more. Hopefully the 25 or so buttons, switches and dials will be enough cause it will be hard to justify here at home that I just “need” to have more! In 10 lifetimes, I don’t think I could have as many attractive friends as you! Maybe we’ll talk sometime, 73 KU2RT
#8. "RE: D7000's ripple effect" In response to Reply # 3
>The D7K is weather sealed, responsive, handles older lenses, will program to AF-On usage, and has Mirror-Up capability. It does not have a 10-pin connector for accessories, but I think that is a fair trade for the latest in sensor technology, 14-bit image pipeline and better video capabilities.<
I respectfully disagree. For a landscape photographer the lack of acceptance of an electronic shutter release is very significant, at least to me. The specification of the D7000 is very impressive but I for one would not purchase a camera, any camera, without it accepting an electronic release.
#10. "RE: D7000's ripple effect" In response to Reply # 8
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by an "electronic shutter release", but the D7000 does have a socket for the MC-DC2 corded remote release, like the D90 and other Nikons. It's just that it doesn't have the 10-pin socket that accepts the same releases as the top-end Nikons like the D300 and D3.
#11. "RE: D7000's ripple effect" In response to Reply # 10 Fri 01-Oct-10 08:15 PM by AreBee
>I'm not sure exactly what you mean by an "electronic shutter release", but the D7000 does have a socket for the MC-DC2 corded remote release, like the D90 and other Nikons. It's just that it doesn't have the 10-pin socket that accepts the same releases as the top-end Nikons like the D300 and D3.<
Sorry Brian (and to the poster I originally responded to). I had assumed that since the 10-pin socket was missing, the D7000 couldn't accept any remote release, and yes, I referred to a remote release when I wrote "electronic shutter release" - oops!
#13. "RE: D7000's ripple effect" In response to Reply # 11
St Petersburg, RU
The dual-in-line jack is smaller and no doubt lighter duty than the circular 10 pin but tey do the same thing. That means a simple adaptor could convert old 10 pin plug terminated cables to the miniture in-line socket. Speaking of remotes, the ML-3 will be a lot more functional with the sensors front and rear so it can now be used outdoors just as effectively as indoors from behind the camera. The number of features this camera is assumed to have left out is dropping by the day, as more is learned about it. Stan St Petersburg Russia
#14. "RE: D7000's ripple effect" In response to Reply # 8 Sat 02-Oct-10 12:04 AM by pdekman
>I respectfully disagree. For a landscape photographer the lack >of acceptance of an electronic shutter release is very >significant, at least to me.
Hi Robbie - I should have been more clear in my post. As mentioned, I was referring to my existing D200 accessories that use the 10-pin connector format. A camera with no ability for remote release would certainly put a damper on my enthusiasm!
The good news here is that 3rd party wired and IR remotes are only $15 or so and two will fit in my bag with no consequence.
p.s. "respectful" disagreement is why I became a Nikonian.