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pencho Registered since 19th Jun 2012Wed 01-Aug-12 05:08 PM
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"Auto ISO"


Roswell, US
          

Curious how many people use auto ISO and if you use it what do you set your uppoer limit ISO? I have gone back and forth between enabling it and not. I have it enabled now with the upper limit set to 400 in 1/3 step increments. I really don't like going higher unless I can be more in control of all the parameters. Thanks.

John

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elec164 Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2009Wed 01-Aug-12 05:58 PM
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#1. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

After reading on these forums about how others used Auto-ISO, I now use it when the circumstance calls for it. Usually when I want to maintain a specfic apertture and shutter speed, yet have the camera change ISO to maintain a proper exposure.

Generally I'll select an upper ISO limit of 6400.

Although there are those who would argue the shadow noise is so well controlled in low ISO that you would do better by under-exposing and correcting the NEF later in post editing software.

Pete

Pete

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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Wed 01-Aug-12 06:53 PM
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#2. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 1


Tacoma, US
          

I find it very useful for indoor and nightime sports, especially when lighting is changing or uneven over time or through the venue. It will keep your shutter speed when you want it. I don't use it with flash, your camera will get horribly confused.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Wed 01-Aug-12 07:12 PM
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#3. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu 02-Aug-12 02:50 AM by Vlad_IT

US
          

I ditto Pete and Mick. Very usefull when lighting condition changes quickly. D7000 handles Auto ISO very well. My uper limit for auto ISO is 1600 though. If i need to go higher on ISO i put on my thinking cap and do everything manually.

DO NOT forget to turn Auto ISO function off when you need to use the flash!!!! (external or built-in). in most cases you will not like the images UNLESS you limit auto ISO to 800.

Best regards,
Vlad

Edited for bunch of errors, sorry guys. i'll hand pick them out one by one each time i re-read this . LOL

  

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TomHH Registered since 01st Aug 2012Wed 01-Aug-12 08:19 PM
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#4. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 0


Hamburg, DE
          

I set up one of the USER MODE presets for a point-and-shoot like mode with Auto-ISO set to 3200 and shutter priority (S). So I can focus on getting sharp pictures with using the right shutter speed.

Normally I set ISO by hand as needed.

Cheers, Tom

  

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burchan Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Feb 2012Wed 01-Aug-12 11:54 PM
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#5. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 3


Sydney, AU
          

>DO NOT forget to turn Auto ISO function off when you need to
>use the flash!!!! (external or built-in). in most cases you
>will not like the images UNLES you limit auto ISO to 800.

I just learned why my flash photography was not good having poor exposure, high ISO. Thank you Vlad.

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PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009Thu 02-Aug-12 12:44 AM
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#6. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 4
Thu 02-Aug-12 12:44 AM by PAStime

Kingston, CA
          

The upper ISO limit in my shooting is determined by the subject at hand. If motion blur is much less desirable than noise, an upper limit of 3200 or 6400 is called for. If low noise and higher colour fidelity are desired, and shallow DOF/wide aperture is acceptable, then I might set the limit to something like 1000. Peter

  

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Patrick604 Registered since 24th Jun 2012Thu 02-Aug-12 01:33 AM
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#7. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 6


US
          

I work a lot at night, and need detailed shots without noise. I almost always shoot at ISO 100 and carry a tripod and shutter release. If that won't get the job done I put on my thinking cap and figure out how to add light to the scene. I understand this is different than what most shooters do, but it works for me and gets me the IQ I need.

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Thu 02-Aug-12 02:44 AM
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#8. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 6


US
          

>The upper ISO limit in my shooting is determined by the
>subject at hand. If motion blur is much less desirable than
>noise, an upper limit of 3200 or 6400 is called for. If low
>noise and higher colour fidelity are desired, and shallow
>DOF/wide aperture is acceptable, then I might set the limit to
>something like 1000. Peter


Good point.

Best regards,
Vlad

  

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pencho Registered since 19th Jun 2012Thu 02-Aug-12 02:50 AM
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#9. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 7


Roswell, US
          

Thanks for all the great tips! I will have to remember to disable auto ISO when I use a flash. It sounds like most people are using higher ISO than what I prefer. I don't like the noise above 1000 but now I have to wonder if I don't use the proper noise removal in PP. I shoot RAW and use CaptureNX as my raw editor. I will have to test shooting at higher ISO and try editing out the noise. Any tips for doing that with CNX?

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ChrisPlatt Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Jun 2011Thu 02-Aug-12 05:01 PM
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#10. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 9


US
          

>Thanks for all the great tips! I will have to remember to
>disable auto ISO when I use a flash. It sounds like most
>people are using higher ISO than what I prefer. I don't like
>the noise above 1000 but now I have to wonder if I don't use
>the proper noise removal in PP. I shoot RAW and use CaptureNX
>as my raw editor. I will have to test shooting at higher ISO
>and try editing out the noise. Any tips for doing that with
>CNX?

I think high ISO noise in the D7000 is remarkably well controlled in properly exposed images. Depending on the intended use and enlargement, I take shots up to 3200 ISO without additional noise reduction. If I do apply additional noise reduction I use Topaz Denoise.


My stepson had a birthday party in a bowling alley this year. I was just taking family snapshots with the D7000. This one was at ISO 3200 - converted from raw just using ViewNX - didn't even take it into NX2 (I normally use Aperture but used the Nikon software on this example).


This one was taken at ISO 1600 and converted with Aperture. I just used the noise reduction in Aperture at .83 and didn't feel it was necessary to use Topaz Denoise. I routinely shoot at ISO 1600 with long lenses unless I am taking pictures of birds with white plumage and want to maximize dynamic range - then I will keep the ISO around 400 or lower if I can get the shutter speed I need.


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Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

  

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wmcy Gold Member Nikonian since 21st Aug 2006Thu 02-Aug-12 05:39 PM
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#11. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 10


Charlotte, US
          

Beautiful shots, Chris. Thanks for posting. What lens were you using for the bowling alley shot?

  

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ChrisPlatt Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Jun 2011Thu 02-Aug-12 05:47 PM
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#12. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 11


US
          

I was using a Sigma 28-70 f/2.8. The lens doesn't have a great reputation for being sharp which is why I almost always grab it for people shots. I like a softer lens for that since, IMO, sharp images are not very flattering for anybody other than children and infants with flawless complexions.

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pencho Registered since 19th Jun 2012Fri 03-Aug-12 01:22 AM
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#13. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 10


Roswell, US
          

Wow, those are great shots! I will be testing higher ISO shooting now that I see the great results! Thanks for posting.

John

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PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009Fri 03-Aug-12 12:40 PM
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#14. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 9


Kingston, CA
          

>Thanks for all the great tips! I will have to remember to
>disable auto ISO when I use a flash. It sounds like most
>people are using higher ISO than what I prefer.

It also depends on the final output format. Images for web pages can be a lot noisier than images which will be blown up in print or on monitors or inspected at 100% crop.

I haven't found any secret recipes for noise reduction in Lightroom. It seems the best is to experiment.

Peter


My gallery (a work in progress): http://peterstokes.net/Exhibit

  

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kdsmithjr Basic MemberSat 04-Aug-12 04:03 AM
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#15. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 2


Ithaca, US
          

never heard of a camera getting confused.

K. D. Smith, Jr.
My gallery: http://www.nikonians-images.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/1334

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kdsmithjr Basic MemberSat 04-Aug-12 04:31 AM
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#16. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 0


Ithaca, US
          

back when nikons had noisy ccd sensors controlling iso speed was very important. 400 iso was too noisy for some and 800 was too noisy for just about everyone. CMOS makes that concern a thing of the past.

I would use auto iso routinely and,maybe, set an upper limit of 1600. On my old d300 1600 would be the beginning of objectionable noise. with todays sensors, maybe you can do higher with no downside.

auto iso just takes worry of of shooting.

K. D. Smith, Jr.
My gallery: http://www.nikonians-images.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/1334

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mdallie Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jan 2011Sun 05-Aug-12 08:55 PM
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#17. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 0


Novi, US
          

I usually shoot in Aperture priority mode and have the viewfinder set so I see the ISO in the viewfinder. Without taking my eye from the viewfinder I can adjust ISO and Aperture and I really like being able to pick both and to do it quickly (the D7000 is my first Nikon and the first camera I've had that let me see ISO in the viewfinder and change it so simply).

So I've not used Auto ISO and I'm uncomfortable with the idea. I will add that I'm very comfortable going up to 3200. I think the D7000 really controls noise well. I'd also add that I will shoot 6400 if I need to, but probably shoot RAW to improve my ability to remove the noise later.

Mike

  

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jmiguez Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Oct 2010Mon 06-Aug-12 02:22 AM
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#18. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 0


Lafayette, US
          

I will use it when I am shooting birds and wildlife. I have found out that a noisy images is preferable to a blurry image. That doesn't mean I like hi ISOs.

To me an image shot in dim light at ISO 1600, which is then cropped is often too noisy. You will lose details in the fine feathers and features. All to often I am shooting a bird 50-100 yards away with a 500 mm lens. The combination of high ISO and cropping makes it hard for me to get an acceptable image that I am proud to show. Drop the ISO to 800-1000 and it is a world of difference.

Then it could be me and my technique....but we won't talk about that.

John

My Pictures may be seen here: http://jmiguez.smugmug.com/

  

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jameskuzman Registered since 14th May 2012Thu 30-Aug-12 02:15 PM
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#19. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu 30-Aug-12 02:35 PM by jameskuzman

Windermere, US
          

I have one of my custom user profiles set up to use Auto ISO with a limit at 1600.

Combined with VR, it has been very valuable for getting hand-held, low-light shots on the fly without worrying about having to bump up the ISO manually when I don't want to use flash.

The only catch is that there have been times when I've forgotten I've incorporated this setting into my U1 profile when shooting with a tripod where I didn't *need* the camera to up the ISO - where I would have preferred a lower ISO and could have easily used a slower shutter speed - but that's not the camera's fault

Different subjects, situations and personal tolerance for noise all play into the choice of what the high ISO limit should be, but for me, 1600 for static shots that don't require cropping is quite tolerable.

Back in the film (and earlier digital days) choosing your ISO was more of a static setting, and you had to work shutter speed and f/stop against that. But now that cameras like the D7000 perform so well at what just a few years ago were ridiculously high ISO values, we essentially have another exposure variable to complement shutter speed and aperture.

If understood well and used properly, Auto ISO can be a very valuable item in the creative toolbox.

Jim

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Sat 01-Sep-12 05:29 AM
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#20. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 0


St Petersburg, RU
          

As you can see, there are many "right" ways to get the shot, more than we had with film since that was fixed by the roll loaded.
The quality and notice-ability of noise is based on the colors, exposure level and ISO. With well exposed images, 6400 is sometimes acceptable for web display but when there is shadow detail making up a good portion of the frame, 1000 might be too high. I have found that if it is too dark to get proper exposure, shooting at low ISO, 100, preserves color and detail when boosted in post, than letting camera ISO to creep up too much.
So it all is a decision time for the human involved, some scenes, with a little experience, tell you when to let the ISO climb.
When using wide ISO Auto settings say, to 3200, I will normally use M mode and set the speed for the best option considering light and movement, and set the aperture for the DOF and let the AutoISO do its thing. I have ruined more than one outing however by moving to flash and forgetting AutoISO was on. Do a quick VF info display scan when moving to another shooting mode or adding flash.
As mentioned before, the real advance in the D7000 is not high ISO but low ISO with incredibly low read noise that makes files very flexible. Very few cameras can touch its low noise at 100ISO, 3 total, all from Niko 3x, D800 and D4
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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mdallie Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jan 2011Sat 01-Sep-12 11:02 AM
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#21. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 18


Novi, US
          

> I have
>found out that a noisy images is preferable to a blurry image.
>That doesn't mean I like hi ISOs.
>

John's point is critical. On occasion I have tried to skimp on ISO to keep noise low. When my picture turned out blurry, I realized that wasn't very smart. But noise is much worse if I underexpose. So if I have a low light situation where I am moving into high ISO, I tend to over-expose just a bit. I would also add, though, that my personal opinion is that ISO 3200 on the D7000 is very clean and I really don't find any reason to be unhappy at ISO 6400 at normal levels of viewing.

Mike

  

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RockyIII Gold Member Nikonian since 27th May 2006Mon 03-Sep-12 05:30 AM
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#22. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 0


Raleigh, US
          

I never use auto ISO. I use aperture priority most of the time and prefer to set the ISO myself. Different strokes...

Rocky

  

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pistnbroke Registered since 01st Jul 2012Tue 04-Sep-12 03:37 PM
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#23. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 21


GB
          

we shoot weddings .no flash permitted ..auto iso on everything ..400-6400 no problem ..

  

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halem1 Registered since 01st Sep 2012Sat 08-Sep-12 11:56 PM
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#24. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 13


US
          

It is encouraging to see the results at that ISO.

  

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Rmastran Silver Member Nikonian since 23rd Nov 2011Sun 09-Sep-12 02:55 PM
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#25. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 21


Carver, US
          

Mike,

You raise some good points. If you do overexpose, would you also consider resetting RAW bit depth to 14-bit? It seems this might help pull out more detail in the overexposed areas, particularly with high ISOs.

Thanks!

Ralph

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elec164 Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2009Sun 09-Sep-12 06:15 PM
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#26. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 25


US
          

>If you do overexpose, would you
>also consider resetting RAW bit depth to 14-bit? It seems this
>might help pull out more detail in the overexposed areas,
>

Actually I believe the opposite is true.

With digital if you overexpose you run the risk of sensor saturation and information would be lost. The extra bit depth adds no advantage. On the other hand the extra bit depth provides four times the amount of data points in the low end. So the extra bit depth allows you to recorded more usable information on the low end. Plus with the D7000's much improved read noise ability, you are better off recovering from slight under-exposure than risking blowing the highlights from over exposure.

Where 14-bit will help on the highlights is with fine gradients.

Pete

Pete

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benmlee Registered since 03rd Jul 2012Wed 12-Sep-12 03:27 AM
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#27. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 3


US
          

>I ditto Pete and Mick. Very usefull when lighting condition
>changes quickly. D7000 handles Auto ISO very well. My uper
>limit for auto ISO is 1600 though. If i need to go higher on
>ISO i put on my thinking cap and do everything manually.
>
>DO NOT forget to turn Auto ISO function off when you need to
>use the flash!!!! (external or built-in). in most cases you
>will not like the images UNLESS you limit auto ISO to 800.
>
>Best regards,
>Vlad
>
>Edited for bunch of errors, sorry guys. i'll hand pick them
>out one by one each time i re-read this . LOL

Can somebody verify this. Use to think auto ISO sets the ISO to max when flash is on. So you have to turn off auto ISO. Even programmed U2 to do that. Just tried it now, and realize you can change the ISO even in auto ISO mode. So don't see the need to turn off auto ISO with flash. So is there a reason to turn off auto ISO with flash.

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Wed 12-Sep-12 08:32 AM
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#28. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 27


Paignton, GB
          

>So is there a reason to
>turn off auto ISO with flash.


Yes - the reason is as you thought.

When using flash, the camera meters for ambient light. With current Nikon's, if you have Auto ISO enabled the camera may increase the ISO (up to your pre-set maximum) in response to low ambient illumination - which results in more noise than you wanted in areas not illuminated by the flash.

Even though it's possible (as you have just discovered) to alter the base ISO value when Auto ISO is enabled, this just changes the point ISO will start from - the camera will still increase it to the same (high) value that it would have used anyway.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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pistnbroke Registered since 01st Jul 2012Wed 12-Sep-12 02:04 PM
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#29. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 28


GB
          

Yes the flash is a real pig with the auto iso ..first once you turn on the flash its stuck at 1/60..the iso shoots up to say 5000 the aperture is at F11 due to being in aperture priority ..so you add the flash to the ambient light at 5000...then you go outside and forget to turn the flash off so you are locked at 1/60 F11 iso 400 and its all over exposed...( I use auto iso 400-6400 )

The flash is my biggest disapointment since changing from Film

  

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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Wed 12-Sep-12 04:33 PM
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#30. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 29


Tacoma, US
          

Auto ISO was created as a way to keep your shutter speed at a certain minimum level in low light situations. It was never designed to be used with flash, and the introduction of flash in the equation is beyond the design parameters of Auto ISO.

Auto ISO is simply the wrong tool to use with flash, much like using a screwdriver to cut something in two instead of a saw is using the wrong tool. You will get results, but they won't be pretty.

Of course with film, Auto ISO was not event possible. So, set your camera's ISO to what film speed you used, and use your flash as you did before, and you should get comparable results.


Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

  

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dmarklin Registered since 10th Sep 2012Wed 12-Sep-12 06:05 PM
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#31. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

I use it coupled with aperture priority when shooting fast moving subjects at dusk. The light changes so fast you'd otherwise be taking readings every few seconds. Usually I limit it to 1600 but have gone to 3200 and underexpose figuring the shot was more important than the noise.

  

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greenwing Gold Member Nikonian since 18th May 2006Wed 12-Sep-12 06:15 PM
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#32. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 29
Wed 12-Sep-12 06:25 PM by greenwing

Yorkshire, GB
          

>Yes the flash is a real pig with the auto iso

Yes, it can be. Let me say that for starters.

> ..first once
>you turn on the flash its stuck at 1/60

Only if you let it stick there. Manual mode, slow or rear sync can change this. Shutter priority too, though I don't think that's good for flash.

>..the iso shoots up to
>say 5000 the aperture is at F11 due to being in aperture
>priority ..so you add the flash to the ambient light at
>5000...

F/11 with flash often won't get the job done. You're in aperture priority, set it to something more suitable. And while you're at it, wind down the max on that ISO Auto menu.

>...then you go outside and forget to turn the flash off so
>you are locked at 1/60 F11 iso 400 and its all over
>exposed...

I really don't think you can blame ISO Auto or the flash system for that...

Chris

  

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pistnbroke Registered since 01st Jul 2012Wed 12-Sep-12 06:34 PM
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#33. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 32
Wed 12-Sep-12 06:44 PM by pistnbroke

GB
          

What I am saying is that there is not a really satisfactory way to use the flash unless you set one of your user settings to say F11/1/60 iso 400 and let the flash do the variables....Problem is I have not got the time to piss about changing things at a wedding .its bad enough remembering to go U1 U2 A or P ..turn flash on should work ok ..turn flash off should work ok ....last sat I did 1350 at a church wedding ....you landscape and those "waiting for the sun to go down " have it easy.

I have U1 set for fixed at F4 for out of focus backgrounds
U2 set auto 400/6400 min 1/60 f11 for groups etc to get depth of fied
A set to auto 400/6400 1/60 f8 for inside churches to give enough depth of field

my wife does everything on P auto 400/6400 but she does not like flash ...

all ideas gratefully accepted

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Wed 12-Sep-12 07:29 PM
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#34. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 33
Wed 12-Sep-12 07:30 PM by briantilley

Paignton, GB
          

>all ideas gratefully accepted

I'll say up-front that I don't do weddings - but I do shoot some fast-moving events where I'm regularly changing from inside with flash to inside without flash to outside without flash to outside with fill flash.

In that sort of environment, I have one "memory bank" (I'm using a D3s but it's the same principle as your D7000 with "U1/U2") set up with Auto ISO enabled, shooting in Aperture Priority without flash and varying the aperture depending whether I'm inside or outside and what DoF I need. Another bank is set with Auto ISO disabled for use with flash - either in Aperture Priority so that I can set the value I want or sometimes in Program when speed really is of the essence. I don't have full AUTO on the D3s, but I wouldn't use it if I did because it robs me of some control.

Everyone has different preferences - I suggest you put some more thought into how to best use the control options on the D7000 to fit your way of working. From what you say above, I'm not sure you have yet found the optimum configuration - but it should be there somewhere. However, I doubt you'll find one which allows you to switch between flash and no flash without altering something on the camera too. Automation is great, but the photographer always needs to think about what they are doing and change settings accordingly.

We're drifting a little from the discussion topic of Auto ISO, by the way...

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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benmlee Registered since 03rd Jul 2012Thu 13-Sep-12 04:35 AM
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#35. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 28


US
          

>Even though it's possible (as you have just discovered) to
>alter the base ISO value when Auto ISO is enabled, this just
>changes the point ISO will start from - the camera will still
>increase it to the same (high) value that it would have used
>anyway.

This is very strange. On the old D7000, is exactly as you described. Don't have the old camera to compare with now, but remember the camera would bump the ISO all the way to max, and you can't lower it.

On the new D7000 from the recent sale, you can change the ISO to anything in flash mode. Just to be sure, here are 2 pictures, one at ISO 200 and other at ISO 12,800. Both in auto ISO mode with camera flash on. Just dialed in the ISO. I am pretty sure you can't do that with the old D7000, or I am going crazy

http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/23023



Think Nikon updated the firmware. On their site, there seem to be an update on 6/26/2012. You guys might want to check it out. Or I got a defective camera.

  

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pistnbroke Registered since 01st Jul 2012Thu 13-Sep-12 06:35 AM
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#36. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 35


GB
          

what do you mean old D7000 and new D7000 .......typo ???

  

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benmlee Registered since 03rd Jul 2012Thu 13-Sep-12 04:13 PM
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#37. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 36


US
          

>what do you mean old D7000 and new D7000 .......typo ???


No, is not. To make a long story short, I had a early D7000 and a recent D7000. They are both the same model camera, but one was manufactured near when it first came out. The recent one was bought at B&H, so I assume is recently manufactured.

The strange thing was they behaved differently in flash mode with auto ISO. I can actually set the ISO now whereas before I could not do it. Wish I still have the old one side by side to compare.

  

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Rmastran Silver Member Nikonian since 23rd Nov 2011Thu 13-Sep-12 04:32 PM
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#38. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 37


Carver, US
          

Are they at the same versions of firmware?

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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benmlee Registered since 03rd Jul 2012Thu 13-Sep-12 05:56 PM
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#39. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 38


US
          

>Are they at the same versions of firmware?

I know the new one has current software revision per Nikon site.
Did not write down the software on the old one so don't know.

What I am curious is how many people have D7000 that would not change ISO in auto ISO mode with flash. Would upgrading the software solve that problem. That means Nikon changed their software to fix the error.

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Thu 13-Sep-12 10:44 PM
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#40. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 39


Paignton, GB
          

I don't have a D7000 to check, but I believe it has always been possible to change the "base" ISO setting even when Auto ISO is enabled. Auto ISO just starts from the value you set, and adjusts it up or down if necessary within the parameters you provide.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Thu 13-Sep-12 11:03 PM
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#41. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 40
Fri 14-Sep-12 12:03 AM by Vlad_IT

US
          

>I don't have a D7000 to check, but I believe it has always
>been possible to change the "base" ISO setting even
>when Auto ISO is enabled. Auto ISO just starts from the value
>you set, and adjusts it up or down if necessary within the
>parameters you provide.

I don't have mine with me either. But as far as I tested and remember : with auto ISO on increasing ISO beyond max value using dedicated button will allow to do so, but the image will be taken at max auto ISO on the menu. That is a glitch.



*********************


Just got home and confirmed. Auto ISO setting in the menu takes priority without abiliy to override the max ISO setting even temporarly
Best regards,
Vlad

  

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pistnbroke Registered since 01st Jul 2012Fri 14-Sep-12 07:38 AM
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#42. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 41


GB
          

what should happen (but does not ) on auto iso is that when the flash is turned on the shutter is locked at 1/60 and the auto iso locks at its lowest setting ( say 400) and the flash power varies to adjust the exposure ..I wish.....

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Fri 14-Sep-12 08:33 AM
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#43. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 41
Fri 14-Sep-12 09:10 AM by briantilley

Paignton, GB
          

>Just got home and confirmed. Auto ISO setting in the menu
>takes priority without abiliy to override the max ISO setting
>even temporarly

Yes - but that's not a glitch, it's how the camera is designed to work.

It's not widely understood that Auto ISO can adjust the ISO value either up or down in response to lighting conditions and your other settings. If you set a base ISO value higher than the maximum ISO value you have chosen in the Auto ISO menu, then the camera is going to adjust ISO down to the maximum value.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Fri 14-Sep-12 08:35 AM
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#44. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 42


Paignton, GB
          

>what should happen (but does not) on auto iso...

I'm not sure that would be a good idea in all circumstances, but I'd like a menu option to allow the photographer to select "disable Auto ISO when using flash".

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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greenwing Gold Member Nikonian since 18th May 2006Fri 14-Sep-12 08:36 AM
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#45. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 35
Fri 14-Sep-12 08:41 AM by greenwing

Yorkshire, GB
          

>This is very strange.
>
>...pretty sure you can't do that with the old D7000, or I am
>going crazy
>
>... Or I got a defective camera.
>

Ben, I don't think you're going crazy, and I don't think you've got a faulty D7000. There is something strange going on though, which I haven't quite got a full grasp of yet.

There are a couple of things that don't look right: first I don't think you can set Hi or Lo ISO values in Auto ISO, and as Vlad says Auto ISO will not use a manually set ISO that's outside the range, so the use of Hi1 seems suspect, and secondly the exposures are terrible, I'd expect much better exposure in both circumstances if everything was working 'normally'.

Various exif viewers give different interpretations of the flash settings of your pictures. The Nikonians gallery says Manual mode, return light not detected. PhotoME says Flash fired, compulsory flash mode, return light not detected and Built-in, Comdr., and Fired, TTL mode. Opanda says similar things.

I don't know what your flash setting really was, but I think that the camera didn't know what was going to happen with the flash, and so it suspended Auto ISO operation and used the user-set ISO value for those frames. So, although Auto ISO is reported in the exif data, the camera did not know what was going to happen with the flash, and decided not to alter ISO from your chosen value.

Check your flash settings. Maybe manual or commander mode is confusing things. It's still possible that the camera's faulty if it really isn't detecting the flash return light.

Chris

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Fri 14-Sep-12 01:23 PM
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#46. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 43
Fri 14-Sep-12 02:40 PM by Vlad_IT

US
          

>Yes - but that's not a glitch, it's how the camera is designed
>to work.
>
>It's not widely understood that Auto ISO can adjust the ISO
>value either up or down in response to lighting conditions and
>your other settings. If you set a base ISO value higher than
>the maximum ISO value you have chosen in the Auto ISO menu,
>then the camera is going to adjust ISO down to the
>maximum value.


Brian,

I have to disagree with you on that. If camera "allows" manual override ISO during the "action", it has to either honor that ISO untill camera(or metering) is OFF or limit adjustment to the trange specified in Auto ISO menu. That definetely Nikon has missed something here.

Best regards,
Vlad

  

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Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009Fri 14-Sep-12 02:19 PM
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#47. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 35


Hatboro, Pa, US
          

It appears to me that your camera is broken. Either your flash or Auto ISO isn't working properly. If it was, the photo at ISO 100 and f1.8 would be exposed properly even if the Auto ISO over ride was working. Take another photo. Turn Auto ISO off, set ISO to 100 and your lens to f1.8 and use flash. If the exposure is now correct then what was done before was a fault.

Len

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Fri 14-Sep-12 02:38 PM
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#48. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 47


US
          

>It appears to me that your camera is broken. Either your
>flash or Auto ISO isn't working properly. If it was, the photo
>at ISO 100 and f1.8 would be exposed properly even if the Auto
>ISO over ride was working. Take another photo. Turn Auto ISO
>off, set ISO to 100 and your lens to f1.8 and use flash. If
>the exposure is now correct then what was done before was a
>fault.
>
>Len
>
>


Len,

It's a possibility that camera is broken. I cannot do full research at work computer, but both images taken in manual mode. The two images are 4 seconds apart. That was enough time for flash to recharge. The dark image was taken first and i suspect flash was not recharged (either just turned on or continues shooting mode was used). I cannot see the actual ISO imbedded to EXIF at work, so I cannot say if images were titles correctly (e.g. ISO 100 and ISO 12.800)

Also flash was used but returned light was not detected – not sure what it means – flash was in manual mode as well?

To many variables here that are unknown….


Best regards,
Vlad

  

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Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009Fri 14-Sep-12 03:15 PM
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#49. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 48


Hatboro, Pa, US
          

The EXIF data shows the bright photo was at ISO 12,800 and the dark one at ISO 100.

In both cases shutter speed was 1/100 and aperture at f1.8 and in manual mode.

The dark photo is what I would expect to see if the flash didn't fire and the room was dimly lit. But it doesn't explain why the ISO is showing 100 if the Auto ISO is turned on. It's what I would expect if Auto ISO were turned off and ISO 100 were manually set and no flash.

Regards,
Len

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Fri 14-Sep-12 03:21 PM
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#50. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 49


US
          

At this point my advice to Ben would be to remove battery from the camera and let is stay for a week to drain internal battery as well. This will do full reset of camera. And try it again.

This advice helped several people in the past few years before even going to Nikon.

Best regards,
Vlad

  

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greenwing Gold Member Nikonian since 18th May 2006Fri 14-Sep-12 06:47 PM
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#51. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 50
Fri 14-Sep-12 07:05 PM by greenwing

Yorkshire, GB
          

Ben, Len and Vlad:

There is nothing wrong with Ben's camera. The flash was set to commander mode, with '--' for the built-in flash mode. No return light was detected from the flash because it only fired the triggering pulse which occurs too early to be counted, and no external flashes were being commanded. There was no response to the metering preflash, either, so the camera's meter did not know how much light any external flashes might add to the exposure. Like so much of our camera systems, the behaviour is undocumented, but it seems the camera just uses the user-set value for ISO when it cannot make a good guess at what the exposure should be.

Some of this may be conjecture, but I have repeated the behaviour I described above on my D300s. It also explains why Ben's ISO 100 picture was grossly underexposed when we'd expect a reasonable exposure at ISO 100 and f/1.8 with the built-in flash.

It seems I was wrong about the Hi1 value not being accepted by Auto ISO, and that Hi1 is allowed and therefore my earlier question mark over that has diappeared.

I repeat: There is nothing wrong with Ben's camera, though the Built-In Flash settings may need to be adjusted.

Chris

  

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greenwing Gold Member Nikonian since 18th May 2006Fri 14-Sep-12 07:01 PM
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#52. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 46


Yorkshire, GB
          

>I have to disagree with you on that. If camera
>"allows" manual override ISO during the
>"action", it has to either honor that ISO untill
>camera(or metering) is OFF or limit adjustment to the trange
>specified in Auto ISO menu. That definetely Nikon has missed
>something here.

But then you could equally argue that if a manual ISO of 6400 has been selected, it should be impossible to set 3200 as the Maximum Sensitivity for Auto ISO. Should you be able to turn on Auto ISO when Max Sensitivity is below the current manual ISO?

The two things are independent. Auto ISO will use the manual ISO setting as its starting point, but will always select an ISO between the camera's base ISO and the Maximum Sensitivity, even if that Maximum is below the manually selected value. I don't see anything ambiguous about it.

Chris

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Fri 14-Sep-12 07:33 PM
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#53. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 52
Fri 14-Sep-12 07:46 PM by Vlad_IT

US
          

Chris,

You (and Brian) are right on the fact that base ISO can be changes on a fly and the metering system will control ISO from that starting point and up to the Max value set in Auto ISO menu.

I was referring to a situation when Nikon allow to override base ISO above the max value, giving false sense of "security" but image will be recorded at ISO max value from the Auto ISO menu and thus expected shutter speed/Aperture will not be used. Photographer has to go into the menu and either disable auto ISO or increase max value in the menu.

I personally prefer to use the same logic for ISO override, as let’s say it used with FV value lock – it locked until metering system is off. I do not keep my auto ISO to all available range – I usually cap it to 800, 1600 and sometimes to 3200. But there is always possibility that I need a shot at ISO 6400 and to get it I need to go to the menu and turn off Auto ISO.

It very easy to implement with FW update not to allow ISO to be increased on display above the value set in max auto ISO menu is this feature is up. Photographer would right away know if ISO on LCD doesn’t clime past 1600 – that is the limit set auto iSO menu.

But it’s also easy to implement to allow manual override passed max value until camera is off or even metering system is off.

Just my 2 c.

Best regards,
Vlad

P.S. not related to this discussion - one of the reason I’ll upgrade D7000 to D600 because on D7000 in LV mode mirror is going up for the metering before taking a shot - this IS THE BIGEST drawback of D7000 for me. I leaned to deal with D7000 and love this camera, but “LiveView” implementation is not really that good (like changing aperture is not changing LCD image brightness ( I bet that can be fixed in FW release, 1/30s the lowest auto shutter speed and mirror slam things (last two are hardware limitations, I’m sure) that I’m really unhappy with...

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Fri 14-Sep-12 07:43 PM
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#54. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 46
Fri 14-Sep-12 08:32 PM by briantilley

Paignton, GB
          

>I have to disagree with you on that. If camera "allows" manual
>override ISO during the "action",

Sorry, but when you choose an ISO value, you are not "over-riding" Auto ISO - you are giving it a value to start from. That's just the way it works.

We may not agree with Nikon's design decisions but we have to accept them

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Fri 14-Sep-12 07:45 PM
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#55. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 51


Paignton, GB
          

>I repeat: There is nothing wrong with Ben's camera, though the
>Built-In Flash settings may need to be adjusted.

Thanks, Chris - that was my conclusion as well

Auto ISO clearly requires a bit of mental effort to understand - but it is quite predictable once you do "get it"

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Fri 14-Sep-12 07:53 PM
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#56. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 55


US
          

>>I repeat: There is nothing wrong with Ben's camera,
>though the
>>Built-In Flash settings may need to be adjusted.
>
>Thanks, Chris - that was my conclusion as well

Brian,

Here is another thing - we all accepted “Mis-behavior” as a normal behavior. So what that built in flash was in Command mode only and no remote flashes were firing? If camera was on Auto ISO with flash or without it should of bumped the ISO to 12,800 in Ben’s case…. At least as I see it.


Best regards,
Vlad

  

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greenwing Gold Member Nikonian since 18th May 2006Fri 14-Sep-12 08:19 PM
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#57. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 56


Yorkshire, GB
          

>If camera was on
>Auto ISO with flash or without it should of bumped the ISO to
>12,800 in Ben’s case…. At least as I see it.

Maybe so, and to be honest I'm not really bothered one way or the other. The fact is, though, that we now have evidence of two different camera models behaving in the same manner, and so we know what to expect in this situation with those and other cameras. We have to assume that it's as designed. It may not be how we'd do it, but we didn't do it.

Chris

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Fri 14-Sep-12 08:26 PM
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#58. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 57


US
          

The fact is, though, that we now have evidence of
>two different camera models behaving in the same manner, and
>so we know what to expect in this situation with those and
>other cameras.

Chris,
very true

Have a good weekend, guys.

  

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greenwing Gold Member Nikonian since 18th May 2006Fri 14-Sep-12 08:29 PM
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#59. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 53
Fri 14-Sep-12 08:42 PM by greenwing

Yorkshire, GB
          

I would like to see the (AFAIK) unused combination of ISO button and sub-command dial used to turn Auto ISO on & off.

I should suggest this to Nikon; it might make an appearance in 5 years or so like the D800's focal-length related Auto ISO, which I suggested to them in January 2007, did.

Chris

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Fri 14-Sep-12 08:36 PM
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#60. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 59


US
          

>I would like to see the (AFAIK) unused combination of ISO
>button and sub-command dial used to turn Auto ISO on &
>off.
>
>I should suggest this to Nikon; it might make an appearance in
>5 years or so like the D800's focal-length related Auto ISO,
>which I suggested to them in November 2006, did.
>
>Chris

Don't go fancy then - main dial --> ISO up/down
Sub-dial --> Auto ISO on/off

Best regards,
Vlad

  

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benmlee Registered since 03rd Jul 2012Sat 15-Sep-12 04:57 AM
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#61. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 51


US
          

>Ben, Len and Vlad:
>
>There is nothing wrong with Ben's camera. The flash was set to
>commander mode, with '--' for the built-in flash mode...
>
>Chris

Yes, it was in commander mode. Thanks Chris.

Got that part of it solved. (Got to have a check list for shooting pictures) But I can still change the ISO in flash mode with Auto ISO. Like some of you said, you are not suppose to be able to do that in with flash in Auto ISO.

Image is as expected. ISO 100 has dark background. ISO 12,800 has bright background but lots of image noise.
http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=23023

Still suspect Nikon may have made a change in the D7000 camera software recently. Or this camera is acting strange.

Maybe if someone try to load the latest software, they can change ISO in flash also. That would prove there is a change.

  

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greenwing Gold Member Nikonian since 18th May 2006Sat 15-Sep-12 05:38 AM
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#62. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 61


Yorkshire, GB
          

Ben, you're still in Commander mode. The camera is still reporting 'return light not detected'. If you're not commanding other speedlights, get out of Commander mode. I suspect that the lack of response from the commanded units is throwing the flash system off, which in turn is upsetting the Auto ISO system. Don't know, not hugely interested, but I'm confident that if you get out of commander mode, or give the speedlight something to command, you'll get the expected results.

Chris

  

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pistnbroke Registered since 01st Jul 2012Sat 15-Sep-12 07:24 AM
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#63. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 62


GB
          

I was using one of my U settings at F11 400-6400 iso but if I left the flash on outside this set it at 1/60 and buggered the pictures.

I have re set one of the U to 100-800 F11 and use this outside BUT it also works good for indoor flash as the iso cannot climb above 800 ..in dark churches it could climb to 6400 then add the flash ( we are talking register signings in churches built in the 1300s here)

I have the other U set for F4 400-6400 for shallow depth of field and A set at F8 400-6400 for dark churches with no flash permitted..you need the F8 with DX to get sufficient depth of field when photograqphing two people at 45 deg to the optical axis....

  

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elec164 Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2009Sat 15-Sep-12 11:23 AM
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#64. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 61


US
          

>Still suspect Nikon may have made a change in the D7000 camera
>software recently. Or this camera is acting strange.
>
>Maybe if someone try to load the latest software, they can
>change ISO in flash also. That would prove there is a change.

I will say that Nikons documentation on how the flash works is a bit lacking. I have the latest firmware that was installed by Nikon when they repaired the lubricant spray defect in my camera, and as far as I can tell the unit is working the same way it always has. As already noted when in Auto-ISO you can alter the base ISO up to the preset maximum, the camera will then only raise the ISO above what you select when it determines proper exposure cannot be achieved with your selection.


Through experimentation it appears that when commander mode is active, return light not detected is the message recorded in the EXIF even though enough light was present to get a correct exposure.

It also appears that when you enable commander mode, Auto-ISO is disabled.

Pete

Pete

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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greenwing Gold Member Nikonian since 18th May 2006Sat 15-Sep-12 06:49 PM
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#65. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 64


Yorkshire, GB
          

>
>Through experimentation it appears that when commander mode is
>active, return light not detected is the message recorded in
>the EXIF even though enough light was present to get a correct
>exposure.
>
>It also appears that when you enable commander mode, Auto-ISO
>is disabled.
>
>Pete
>

Well, that explains it all Pete. Well done! I must remember this for the future. As you say, insufficient documentation!

Chris

  

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BrawlerO Registered since 01st Nov 2012Mon 26-Nov-12 10:01 AM
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#66. "RE: Auto ISO"
In response to Reply # 31


Wokingham, GB
          

I'm still getting to know my D7000 but after 'playing' with it yesterday I was really impressed. I was in woodland in a grey and wet UK November and shooting hand-held.

I wanted a deeper DOF to capture the patterns of the trees in the distance (f8/f11) and wanted at least 1/125 for shutter speed to eliminate my own camera shake when my big old sausages snatch the trigger

In the low-light conditions this wouldn't have been possible for me in the past but at iso 1600-2500 (and higher) I still got some good results. These were mostly landscape/scenery shots so I don't have to crop but noise doesn't seem to be an issue even when zoomed in.

I like having this 'A AND S Priority' mode it's really amazing what technology can do these days. I remember when using film that 800 iso was fast! We are quite spoilt these days.

  

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