Go to a  "printer friendly" view of this message which allow an easy print Printer-friendly copy Go to the page which allows you to send this topic link and a message to a friend Email this topic to a friend
Forums Lobby GET TO KNOW YOUR CAMERA & MASTER IT Nikon D5300/D5200/D5100/D5000/D3300/D3200/D3100/D3000 (Public) topic #7464
View in threaded mode

Subject: "Focus, Sharpness and Resolution" Previous topic | Next topic
Pipewelder Registered since 09th Jan 2013Sun 20-Jan-13 03:55 AM
89 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
"Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"


Iuka, US
          

I got out today to use my new 5100 and enjoyed it however the pictures we took of some eagles nesting and flying were a bit disapointing. I may be expecting too much also. But when I compared the sharpness of an image taken with a bridge camera (Canon SX40HS) the sharpness appeared to be slightly better in the Canon.

I can understand the difference because of the different focal length.However just selecting an area of equivelent pixel size or in the windows photo gallery and viewing full size shows.

I had the lens AF on and the image stabilization set. I also rested against a fence for many of the shots. At 1st I thought it may have been related to a low shutter speed (1/200th ish)

Below is one of the pictures. No post processing or cropping.But I would imagine its resized when uploaded so you may not be able to tell anything.

I just figured with a larger sensor and more resolution things would look a bit better.



Of course with the other camera I wouldn't have been able to get some of the pictures of them flying. It's great having the shutter go off right when you push the button.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
JosephK Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Nikonian since 17th Apr 2006Sun 20-Jan-13 04:06 AM
4153 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#1. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 0


Seattle, WA, US
          

For hand-held, your shutter speed might be a little low. But for supported and with VR, you are probably fine.

You big problem here is that you need a longer lens to get closer.

Of course, some post-processing would not hurt either.

The "fun" part here is making sure that you and the camera agree on what the focus target is.

---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+
Joseph K
Seattle, WA, USA

D700, D200, D70S, 24-70mm f/2.8, VR 70-200mm f/2.8 II,
50mm f/1.4 D, 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR, 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Pipewelder Registered since 09th Jan 2013Sun 20-Jan-13 04:26 AM
89 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#2. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 1


Iuka, US
          

Am I right in thinking that if one of t he red lights is on the subject, then that distance is in focus ? I had some that would light up that were on branches and I would move slightly and half press again until the red dots are in the right place then take the picture.

Some of the shutter speeds were were 1/600 or faster and they were similar to those on the other camera. I need to do some testing.

Thanks



Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Sun 20-Jan-13 01:02 PM
26571 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#3. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond, US
          

> I may be expecting too much

Probably you are - but it's not so much of the camera, but the lens, and perhaps your skills. Particularly the flying ones require some skill as well as the right equipment.

Here's an example of what's possible:



This was taken with a 4mp camera, not your 16mp, and it's with a 500mm lens, rather than a 200mm. And I'd say that I was probably closer to the bird, too. So more than twice the lens and likely half the distance, making it considerably easier to get close in. I used a tripod; you had VR, but a tripod is better as long as the subject isn't moving too much - in this case, that is the case. The lens - an old manual focus one from the 1980s - is probably not as good as yours.

In addition, there are a number of other considerations. The Canon almost certainly produced a JPEG. What came out of your D5100? Was it a JPEG or a raw file? Assuming that it was a JPEG, the sharpness settings on DSLRs tend to be lower than on point-and-shoots or bridge cameras, since it is much more likely that a DSLR owner will want to post process the image.

Next, there's the consideration of just exactly what the AF was attempting to get into focus. In this case, you have a pretty tiny bird, surrounded by branches, nest and tree - all of which are at different focus distances. If you aren't careful about how you use the AF system, it would be VERY easy in this case to have the AF focused on something OTHER than the bird.

The flying birds are another story altogether. Were you tracking them, or did you simply try to get one in the middle of the air? Do you have AF-C set?

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009Sun 20-Jan-13 01:24 PM
2934 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#4. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 2


Hatboro, Pa, US
          

You want the focus to be as accurate as possible. The most accurate is the very center point. I would set the AF area mode to single point and to center point by pushing the OK button.

I would also increase the shutter speed by increasing the ISO to maybe 400 at least. The D5100 will still give you fairly noiseless photos unless you crop everything to 100%. If the bird starts to fly your 1/200 speed won't cut it.

I don't know the characteristics of your AFS 55-200mm lens at 200mm. You are shooting wide open. I would normally stop down the lens one stop to f8 for greater depth of field. The Pro telephoto lenses are very sharp wide open, the DX zooms maybe not so much.

Given the three areas I mentioned above I frequently use high ISO settings like 1600 and fast shutter speeds on my FX bodies and a little less with DX.

And as mentioned above you want a longer lens, maybe in the 400mm and 500mm focal lengths.

Len

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

WD4MLA Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002Sun 20-Jan-13 04:16 PM
897 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#5. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 0


Sylva, US
          

I took a look at the larger size of your photo and it looks like the nest below the eagle is sharper than the bird. Maybe it focused on the nest instead of the eagle.

Jerry Jaynes
Great Smoky Mountains
of North Carolina

http://www.flickr.com/photos/by_jerry_jaynes/

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

coolmom42 Silver Member Awarded for her enthusiastic support of the community and exemplifying the Nikonian mission “Share, Learn and Inspire” Nikonian since 30th Nov 2011Sun 20-Jan-13 04:49 PM
2974 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 0


McEwen, US
          

These things will help you a lot:

*Single point focus--get it exactly on what YOU want to be the sharpest point.

*Smaller aperture--f/5.6 doesn't give you enough depth of field at that focal length.

*increase your ISO to 400 or 800, to give you faster shutter speeds, even at the smaller aperture. I get good images at ISO 800 on my D3100.

If you want to do shots like this, you really need a 300 mm lens absolute minimum. I started out with the 55-200mm like you, and my first upgrade was to the 55-300. My next upgrade will be to the Sigma 150-500.

working on it in Middle TN
Nikon D3100

35 mm 1.8 Nikkor
18-55 mm Nikkor VR
55-200 mm Nikkor VR
55-300 mm Nikkor VR
150-500 mm Sigma OS
Feisol CT3471 & Markins M20 ballhead

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

WildIsle Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Jan 2010Sun 20-Jan-13 10:02 PM
593 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#7. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 0


CA
          

You need to get a LOT closer for good wildlife images. Physically closer and ultimately a longer lens.

The Canon SX40HS has a zoom equivalent of 24-840mm ! Sounds impressive and indeed it is but it can't do many things a DSLR can so it's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison even if it looks pretty sweet!

Keep visiting the beaches and estuaries where the eagles are and the opportunities will present themselves. It was years before I finally got my first really good eagle image and there's a list of other wildlife I'm still waiting for many years on.

The D5100 auto-focus is a little frustrating to use with the harsh little red light indicator in the viewfinder. I'm never sure if I'm on target or not, compared to higher end bodies. But the D5100 takes great pics so persistence and patience will pay off

Have fun

Philip

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Pipewelder Registered since 09th Jan 2013Mon 21-Jan-13 01:04 AM
89 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#8. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 4


Iuka, US
          

Thanks.

I will keep that all in mind. Most of the pictures I took yesterday were them sitting in or near the nest. Probably 30 or more. Tried various setting of F Stop and shutter speeds.

I will try the single point focus.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Pipewelder Registered since 09th Jan 2013Mon 21-Jan-13 01:24 AM
89 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#9. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 3


Iuka, US
          

>Probably you are - but it's not so much of the camera, but the
>lens, and perhaps your skills. Particularly the flying ones
>require some skill as well as the right equipment.
>
I do understand the need for steadiness. I actually propped on a fence and carefully took the picture. Similar to the technique I used with the bridge camera. I zipped a few of the bridge camera pictures and put them on one of my ftp sites at http://weldingdata.com/FtpPublic/EagleCanon (2).zip These were handheld in a similar manner. I am leading to think its just the lens however clipping out 2 1000x1000 pixel sections shows a noticeble difference in sharpness.


>D5100? Was it a JPEG or a raw file? Assuming that it was a
>JPEG, the sharpness settings on DSLRs tend to be lower than on
>point-and-shoots or bridge cameras, since it is much more
>likely that a DSLR owner will want to post process the image.

I will have to study up on that. I would have figured the image was processed the same or better in the DSLR but I am a bit new to the technical aspects of digital photography.



>Next, there's the consideration of just exactly what the AF
>was attempting to get into focus. In this case, you have a
>pretty tiny bird, surrounded by branches, nest and tree - all
>of which are at different focus distances. If you aren't
>careful about how you use the AF system, it would be VERY easy
>in this case to have the AF focused on something OTHER than
>the bird.

I was using the autofocus-auto mode with the 3d tracking. I will try the single point. I did play with these settimgs today and notice a loud click noise when I halfpress the shutter release. Took the lens off, put it back on, the clicking stopped.

>
>The flying birds are another story altogether. Were you
>tracking them, or did you simply try to get one in the middle
>of the air? Do you have AF-C set?

I was still on AF-A but multiple dots were on the bird in the air but I didn't notice if the lens was continiously focusing.


Thanks again for your information. This is a great forum.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Pipewelder Registered since 09th Jan 2013Mon 21-Jan-13 01:42 AM
89 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#10. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 5


Iuka, US
          

>I took a look at the larger size of your photo and it looks
>like the nest below the eagle is sharper than the bird. Maybe
>it focused on the nest instead of the eagle.


It was hard for me to tell when I enlarged them. I clipped out two 1000 pix square images and uploaded them at http://weldingdata.com/FtpPublic/Eagles1000pix.zip one from each camera.

Thanks for the help.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Pipewelder Registered since 09th Jan 2013Mon 21-Jan-13 01:44 AM
89 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#11. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 6


Iuka, US
          

>If you want to do shots like this, you really need a 300 mm
>lens absolute minimum. I started out with the 55-200mm like
>you, and my first upgrade was to the 55-300. My next upgrade
>will be to the Sigma 150-500.

I think that may be the next step if I don't get it worked out. I just expected to see a little more drastic difference between the 5100 and the canon but maybe it was the operator.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Pipewelder Registered since 09th Jan 2013Mon 21-Jan-13 01:56 AM
89 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#12. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 7


Iuka, US
          

>You need to get a LOT closer for good wildlife images.
>Physically closer and ultimately a longer lens.
>
>The Canon SX40HS has a zoom equivalent of 24-840mm ! Sounds
>impressive and indeed it is but it can't do many things a DSLR
>can so it's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison even if
>it looks pretty sweet!
>
>Keep visiting the beaches and estuaries where the eagles are
>and the opportunities will present themselves. It was years
>before I finally got my first really good eagle image and
>there's a list of other wildlife I'm still waiting for many
>years on.
>
>The D5100 auto-focus is a little frustrating to use with the
>harsh little red light indicator in the viewfinder. I'm never
>sure if I'm on target or not, compared to higher end bodies.
>But the D5100 takes great pics so persistence and patience
>will pay off
>
>Have fun
>
>Philip
Thanks. The focus speed and shutter speed is nice. Back when I was into 35MM many years ago I never could have caught the ones flying from the tree. But the ole split prism would have been dead on.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009Mon 21-Jan-13 12:54 PM
2934 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#13. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 10


Hatboro, Pa, US
          

I looked at both photos and neither one looked sharp. It didn't look like it was a focus problem but more like the lens resolution could not support that much of a crop without falling apart. Can you post the un-cropped frame so we can see how much of a crop it really is? Just down sample the photo to the proper size without cropping. I think you just ran out of lens.

Len

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Pipewelder Registered since 09th Jan 2013Tue 22-Jan-13 11:04 AM
89 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#14. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 13


Iuka, US
          

I guess my point was that there was little difference in the two images even though there is a difference in the sensor size. I do think the lens magnification had a great deal to do with it.

What I need to figure out I guess is at what zoom level am I better off using the bridge camera over the slr provided none of the features of the slr are an advantage for that specific shot.

Here are two images without any cropping.

http://weldingdata.com/FtpPublic/Compare (2).zip

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009Tue 22-Jan-13 12:02 PM
2934 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#15. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 14


Hatboro, Pa, US
          

Thanks for the full frame photos. I think my previous comment holds. Both photos look in focus but the D5100 photo requires twice the enlargement to equal the PowerShot. You want to stay under 67% enlargement on the D5100 and under 50% on the PowerShot. That's were the photos appear to soften. You need a longer lens but 300mm won't do it. You need a 500mm, maybe the Sigma 150-500mm. But now we're talking big bucks, like $1000. In any case your gear seems to be working properly.

Regards,
Len

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Pipewelder Registered since 09th Jan 2013Tue 22-Jan-13 01:20 PM
89 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#16. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 15


Iuka, US
          

>Thanks for the full frame photos. I think my previous comment
>holds. Both photos look in focus but the D5100 photo requires
>twice the enlargement to equal the PowerShot. You want to stay
>........ In any case your gear seems to be working properly.
>
>Regards,
>Len
>
That's what I was hoping for. I probaby need to make some images at equal magnification to get a better grasp in the differences.

Thanks for your time.

Gerald

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

pistnbroke Registered since 01st Jul 2012Wed 23-Jan-13 08:00 AM
58 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#17. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 16


GB
          

they all come from the factory set soft ..did you up the sharpness to +9 and contrast to -1 (so you dont burn the whites)

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Pipewelder Registered since 09th Jan 2013Wed 23-Jan-13 10:33 AM
89 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#18. "RE: Focus, Sharpness and Resolution"
In response to Reply # 17


Iuka, US
          

Nope. Didn't know that could be changed.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Forums Lobby GET TO KNOW YOUR CAMERA & MASTER IT Nikon D5300/D5200/D5100/D5000/D3300/D3200/D3100/D3000 (Public) topic #7464 Previous topic | Next topic


Take the Nikonians Tour and learn more about being a Nikonian Wiki /FAQ /Help Listen to our MP3 photography radio channels Find anything on Nikon and imaging technology - fast!

Copyright © Nikonians 2000, 2014
All Rights Reserved

Nikonians®, NikoScope® and NikoniansAcademy™ are trademarks owned by Nikonians.org.
Nikon®, Nikonos® and Nikkor® are registered trademarks of Nikon Corporation.