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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberTue 09-Jul-13 09:14 AM
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"Two samples and a question"
Tue 09-Jul-13 09:17 AM by jrp

San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

I took a short break with the intention to improve my skills at HDR.
It was late afternoon but still with plenty of light outside.
To make it a bit more challenging I shut closed all windows except for one.
This is the result of tone mapping with details enhancement on Photomatix Pro 4.2.6 (64-bit) of three images at ISO 400, f/9.5; 1.5s, 1s, 0.5s



The details enhancer greatly enhanced the smoke in the ceiling from candles that are always on at home. I'll have to think how to clean the image a bit and reduce noise; your thoughts are more than welcome.


I went into the kitchen to order a cup of coffee and by the time I came back it was really dark. The lights had to be turned on.

This is the result of another set of three images, shutter speeds of 1/1.5s, 1/3s, 1/8s



QUESTION:
How do I correct the white balance?
Photomatix doesn't seem able to read the white balance embedded on the NEF file, or to react to a custom set temperature.

All other comments are more than welcome.

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
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esantos Moderator Nikonians Resources Writer. Recognized for his outstanding reviews on printers and printing articles. Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas, including Landscape Photography Awarded for his extraordinary accomplishments in Landscape Photography. His work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian. Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002Tue 09-Jul-13 01:38 PM
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#1. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 09-Jul-13 01:40 PM by esantos

McAllen, US
          

Hi Ramon,

A beautiful space, I love the warmth of this room.

When selecting the bracketed files to be processed you can select the White Balance setting in the dialog. You can choose between several presets or "as shot" and "custom". You can also adjust the color temperature in the tonemapping process. Here is the slider to use (the one at the bottom).



I much prefer the second image with the lights turned on. If you study Larry Anderson's (mnbuilder49) work (he is the master at shooting architectural interiors, after all) you will notice he always shoots with the lights turned on. This creates more drama and interest, IMHO. I think your bracketing is okay although I would probably add two more exposures so that you can eliminate or reduce the shadows created by the lights on the ceiling and walls. And then, as an option, I would do some minor perspective correction to reduce the distortion from the wide angle lens.

EDITED TO ADD:

In an effort to reduce the shadows being cast you could also move the table lamps further away from the wall as well. It's all about creating the shot.

Ernesto Santos
esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography

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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberTue 09-Jul-13 10:09 PM
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#2. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 1


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

Thank you, Ernesto
I'll see if I can give it another test later today.

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
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barrywesthead Silver Member Awareded for his continued support of the Nikonians community, freely sharing his expertise, particularly in the areas of digital post processing and printing. Nikonian since 07th Nov 2006Wed 10-Jul-13 11:56 AM
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#3. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed 10-Jul-13 12:02 PM by barrywesthead

Kleinburg, CA
          

If you are exporting from LR to Photomatix my recommendation would be to set the WB in the best exposed image and sync the others before exporting to Photomatix. I have found this to be the best approach. (It's a good idea not to use Auto WB when shooting an HDR sequence due to the potential variations among images.

While you can make color temp adjustments in Photomatix or Photoshop in post processing the adjustment is more difficult to get right than in the NEF file with LR.

For interiors I would recommend shooting -2,0,+2 unless you are including an outdoor scene through a window which would require -4,-2,0,+2,+4.

Barry
http://art2printimages.com

  

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KenLPhotos Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Jul 2009Wed 10-Jul-13 12:04 PM
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#4. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri 12-Jul-13 12:38 AM by jrp

Stewartstown, US
          

Photoshop Levels tool has three 'eye droppers', the middle one being gray point. Click on something that you know is neutral. You know this room better than I but I played around with the lower part of the chair to the right of the piano. There are so many different light source color temperatures that the choice has to be to the artist's taste. I like this version.


KenL

Visit my Nikonians gallery.



There are many 'images of beautiful objects' but few 'beautiful images of objects'.

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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberThu 11-Jul-13 03:11 AM
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#5. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 3


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

Thank you for your recommendations, Barry.
I export the NEF files directly into Photomatix.
The first set of images were shot with Daylight WB; the second set with Incandescent WB, which is not correct as there is a mix of light sources, and Photomatix doesn't seem to read the WB from Nikon.
I will make another run tomorrow with sets of 5 images as you recommend and sets of 7 images.

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberThu 11-Jul-13 03:14 AM
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#6. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 4


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

Thank you, Ken. Good and easy pointer.
Your signature hit me like an elbow in the eye

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy and the product catalog of the Photo Pro Shop

  

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KenLPhotos Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Jul 2009Thu 11-Jul-13 12:45 PM
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#7. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 6
Fri 12-Jul-13 12:40 AM by jrp

Stewartstown, US
          

Your image may not make Architectural Digest magazine but it would make Aperture! I really like the nice colors from the varied lighting.

PS - the second image posting was an error. I uploaded the original by mistake and did not know how to delete it, so I deleted the link and uploaded the changed image. The original is still there in spite of removing the link.

KenL

Visit my Nikonians gallery.



There are many 'images of beautiful objects' but few 'beautiful images of objects'.

  

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barrywesthead Silver Member Awareded for his continued support of the Nikonians community, freely sharing his expertise, particularly in the areas of digital post processing and printing. Nikonian since 07th Nov 2006Thu 11-Jul-13 01:25 PM
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#8. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 5


Kleinburg, CA
          

>
>I will make another run tomorrow with sets of 5 images as you
>recommend and sets of 7 images.
>
The sequences I suggested are 3 or 5 images. You can skip the odd numbered exposures with no loss in the quality of the result and the more images you blend the more liklihood of a little softness in the final result.

Barry
http://art2printimages.com

  

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migs Basic MemberThu 11-Jul-13 02:19 PM
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#9. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 7


Warrington, GB
          

I think this is definitely one of those occasions where an image being pleasing to the eye trumps colour accuracy.

The warmer image, given the subject matter, is just so much more welcoming.

--
Paul
- Head full of magic, shoes full of rain

  

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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberFri 12-Jul-13 12:41 AM
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#10. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 9


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

Thank you, Paul
There is something to that room. When we have parties, I have to throw people out. Nobody wants to leave.

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberFri 12-Jul-13 01:08 AM
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#11. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 10
Fri 12-Jul-13 10:40 PM by jrp

San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

I think I am finally getting the hang of this technique.

These are some of the things I learned today under your advice:
a) There should be no blown out highlights in the starting (lighter) image.
b) The lesser the number of images the better for sharpness. Optimal number is somewhere between 4 and 7 depending on the specific scene.
c) Check for nasty reflections -glass.
d) Custom WB should be tested a few times, more so under mixed lighting.
e) It is better and easier to get the WB right first (in the imput images), than to adjust later (the HDR image) via White/Grey/Black points in curves.
f) Turn ALL lights on.

I was going nuts trying to make green a wall in the back -through the window- that was recently repainted to blue turquoise (!#$%&!)
Also, the timing was not the same as in the sequence before and the sun entered into the rug and the whole room, making the contribution of artificial light less than before, reducing its habitual warmth.
So the session will have to be remade checking on that.

But here is today's exercise with 5 images:


Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
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Cavy2 Silver Member Awarded for her continuing willingness to keep on learning and to share her knowledge with others in the Nikonians spirit Nikonian since 02nd Aug 2006Fri 12-Jul-13 01:09 AM
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#12. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 10


Newtown, US
          

Hi Ramon,
I find it best to correct the WB in Photoshop. I'll either correct and save as TIFF's for Photomatix, or correct the blended TIFF file in Camera Raw.

Also, find I get better results with ISO 200. HDR tends to amplify any noise. The ceiling always needs some work back in Photoshop after the tone mapping.


http://kathycavallaro.smugmug.com/

  

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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberFri 12-Jul-13 01:31 AM
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#13. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 12


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

Thank you, Kathy
You are right that it should be much better to work with pre-corrected tifs than with NEFs, because Photomatix doesn't interpret camera settings.
ISO 200. Yes!
Making notes for next session

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
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barrywesthead Silver Member Awareded for his continued support of the Nikonians community, freely sharing his expertise, particularly in the areas of digital post processing and printing. Nikonian since 07th Nov 2006Fri 12-Jul-13 01:34 AM
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#14. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 11


Kleinburg, CA
          

That is a big improvement!

Thanks for taking time to report on your findings. Even for those experienced with HDR a refresher is always useful and I’m sure your findings are very helpful those new to HDR and following this thread to learn.

Here’s another tip. No doubt this is a personal taste situation but I often find (and usually it’s on architectural interiors for some reason) that the final HDR product can be helped quite a bit in Photoshop by using Smart Sharpen in a “large radius – small amount” mode.

Try it on this image at Radius 20-50 and amount 10-40 or somewhere around those values and see what you think! If you like it more in some areas than others you can always mask the layer out with a soft brush where you prefer the original.

I did not try it on your image but it looks to me like it would benefit from this treatment.

Barry
http://art2printimages.com

  

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KenLPhotos Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Jul 2009Fri 12-Jul-13 12:13 PM
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#15. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 14
Fri 12-Jul-13 12:18 PM by KenLPhotos

Stewartstown, US
          

The 'Smart Sharpen in a “large radius – small amount”' is a trick to make more contrast in the mid tones. It works most of the time. I have it as an 'Action' in CS5 so it is easy to try. I always sharpen first and 'Snap mid tones' last.

BTW Jrp, you are really getting the hang of it. Very nice improvment. It is a difficult lighting situation and a great subject to practice on. Nice work.

KenL

Visit my Nikonians gallery.



There are many 'images of beautiful objects' but few 'beautiful images of objects'.

  

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KenLPhotos Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Jul 2009Sat 13-Jul-13 11:46 AM
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#16. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 4


Stewartstown, US
          

Reloaded the above photo.


KenL

Visit my Nikonians gallery.



There are many 'images of beautiful objects' but few 'beautiful images of objects'.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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mnbuilder49 Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, especially in Interiors Architecture, Landscape and HDR Photography Nikonian since 18th Apr 2006Sat 13-Jul-13 02:55 PM
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#17. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 11


Lakeville, US
          

Your 5 exposure hdr brings out more detail than the 3 exposure hdr while maintaining a natural look.
I always correct the white balance first and make tiff images to run through Photomatix.
When the white balance is correct for the interior the light coming through the windows looks too blue. I try lowering the saturation of the cyan and/or the blue to compensate for that. That would also remove the blue shadow under the left side of the piano.
Also the slight barrel distortion on the very right edge of the image should be corrected.

All in all this is a very fine effort.

Larry
http://www.larryandersonphotography.com
http://www.andersonmasterbuilders.com

  

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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberSun 14-Jul-13 03:34 AM
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#18. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 17


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

Larry,
Thank you. Adding your notes to the check list.

How do you manage sharpness with 9 images?
I saw that as your preference in your posts of the home for sale.
The other question is how do you select your lighter image for starting point? A properly exposed one or one with some blown highlights?

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
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mnbuilder49 Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, especially in Interiors Architecture, Landscape and HDR Photography Nikonian since 18th Apr 2006Sun 14-Jul-13 03:34 PM
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#19. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 18


Lakeville, US
          

Because the D3x will auto bracket 9 frames I never have to touch the camera between shots. A sturdy tripod and a cable release are a must for these shots.

I am most concerned with the darker exposures. I make certain that nothing is blown out in the darkest exposures. Light fixtures are the most critical as they will go from being featureless white to having black spots in them if you don't get a dark enough exposure.

I always shoot these in aperture priority and for interiors I set the exposure compensation at -1 or -2 depending on the requirements of the shot. Even at a -2 compensation it is very unusual that the brightest exposure wouldn't be bright enough to get clean detail in the shadow areas. I always check the histogram to make sure I am bright enough.


Larry
http://www.larryandersonphotography.com
http://www.andersonmasterbuilders.com

  

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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberMon 15-Jul-13 07:24 AM
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#20. "RE: Two samples and a question"
In response to Reply # 19


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

Thank you, Larry
I'll see if I can make one more trial tomorrow.

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy and the product catalog of the Photo Pro Shop

  

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