#2. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 1
Gary, I'm currently working with the NX2 eBook and it says that 14 bit will bring out a little more dnr, a little and it may or may not make a difference. I shoot 12 bit currently, I don't think my skills are good enough to see a difference in pp yet. Mark Stephan USN, retired ...GO Navy!
#4. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 0
I'm working in 14 bit as well. I remember seeing an article/review while back that showed that 14 bit is capable of bringing out much more shadow detail. I haven't done a direct comparison between 14 and 12 bits, but I can say that 14 does beat the socks off of JPEG.
Not sure if it helps when recovering highlights or not, but that would make sense.
#5. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 3
Keep the RAW files after you have done your edits in NX2. You don't need to save a different version, just do a normal save of the NEF file. The files will include the original version & you can redo all of the edits if you wish. Should your NX skills improve over time, you can then revisit the files you processed earlier & process them better.
Jason Odell's guide to NX2 is very good & comprehensible.
#6. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 4
South Australia, AU
Hi Bridget, and Steve,
Tks, I am going the 14 bit way but I will have to buy more cards,
Bridget is right about shooting raw, I have messed up a lot of images and have gone back later and done a better job after a bit of reading,
Re the jpeg Steve, I used jpeg on day 1, Vivid, and ADL auto, I have managed to do a bit with them but most are a lost cause, it was blowing a gale at the time, (new toy, if thats going to stop me!", so a few not as sharp as I would like,
#9. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 8
San Jose, US
When you talk of 12 bit vs 14 bit, the difference seems small but this is binary, so in 8 bit you can represent 256 values with black as 0 and 255 as white, in 12 bit it is 4096 values with black as 0 and white as 4095. But with 14 bit it is a wopping 16384 values with o again being black and 16383 being white. this gives you nice smooth transitions, better color representation, etc. It helps especially in bringing out details in shadows.
#11. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 10
We had a long thread on this some time ago and I kept pushing someone to show me a comparative photo where you could see the difference. I took a bunch of comparative shots myself and looked at them every way I could imagine and I could never find any difference that the human eye could see.
But, of course, technically there is a difference, somewhere hidden under what the human eye can see. So, based on everyone trying to convince me that there is a difference, despite the incompetence of the human eye, and given the very low price of storage space, I said to myself, "what the h..., and now just shoot in 14bit all the time. It is not worth going back and forth from 12 to 14.
#13. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 0 Mon 02-Mar-09 03:06 PM by QMaze
I've always looked at photography like this Gary. We get one opportunity to capture time, if I can capture as much detail and information as I possibly can I will take advantage of that. Hence the reason I shoot at 14bit, uncompressed NEF and color space at AdobeRGB.
#15. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 14
i believe the difference is in processing. You won't see the difference but when you go to process it in toning is where you'll see the difference. I Dareell youngs Mastering the Nikon D300 he mentiones how 14 bit is much better off. i'm thinkin it would be better in shooting 5 brackets for HDR
#16. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 13 Wed 10-Mar-10 07:06 AM by sidewinder
>Hence the reason I shoot at 14bit, uncompressed NEF and color space at AdobeRGB.
Except that the color space you choose in your camera is irrelevant if you are shooting at 14-bit uncompressed RAW. I have Capture NX 2 open my NEF files (12 or 14-bit) into the ProPhoto RGB color space since it is the largest color space available. All my edits are done in that color space. Only when I am ready to print or save the NEF file as a JPEG is the color space changed.
I don't get too wrapped on in the 12-bit versus 14-bit debate. When I think I will need more than 2.5 FPS when in "CH" mode on my D300s, I switch to 12-bit. Otherwise I am in 14-bit.
Also, using "Lossless compressed" is just as good as uncompressed. As the name suggests, you lose no data using that setting.
#17. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 0
South Australia, AU
Hi Guys, I'm still shooting 14bit!
Thought this thread had gone,
Now that it is back,
A new item has crept into this thread that I don't understand and have not been game to change as everything appears to be working OK, working on the old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't try and fix it!"
Since this thread started I gained more confidence both with the camera and NX2,
I don't even know what it is leave alone the effect if I make a change, secondly, I don't know whether the editing software prefers a particular colour space, I think I'm on RGB at the moment, will have to check the camera, I'm pretty sure it is the same there, and NX2,
#20. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 13
I too shoot 14-bit NEF for the reasons already noted; Bob gives the most concise reasons why. I would suggest using Lossless compressed NEF to save card space. You're not buying much at all with uncompressed NEF in terms of image quality, noise, etc. It's "lossless", so it suggests no impact on quality. From my shooting, such a file represents about 60% the size of an uncompressed one. So, you're almost getting twice the card capacity without giving up quality.
Color space in NEF format is irrelevant, as it isn't applied during shooting. Once you bring it into your PP editor, you apply it there. It is a function of what output format you are targeting. For monitors, websites, etc. sRGB is fine. If you are having the shots printed professionally (i.e., magazines), then you'd likely go to AdobeRGB.
>I've always looked at photography like this Gary. We get one >opportunity to capture time, if I can capture as much detail >and information as I possibly can I will take advantage of >that. Hence the reason I shoot at 14bit, uncompressed NEF and >color space at AdobeRGB.
#21. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 13
Farmington Hills, US
The amount of detail and information in uncompressed NEF and lossless compressed NEF is exactly the same. Lossless compressed is what is titled: lossless. The idea behind lossless compressed is the same a ZIP file format on a computer. Repeated sequences are stored using a shorthand that can be expanded back to the original when the file is used. With lossless compressed you are reducing storage space at the expense of slightly greater time to open the image. IMO you will never notice the time difference on any computer that is able to reasonably process and image.
Gary in SE Michigan, USA. Co-organizer of the Southern Michigan Chapter Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera. D4, D800e, D300, D90, F6, FM3a (black), FM2n (chrome) YashicaMat 124, Graflex Speed Graphic 4x5 My Nikonians Gallery & Our Chapter Gallery
#22. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 19
Is anyone familiar With HDR? If so this is one reason i want to attempt to shoot in 14 bit. Taking 5 bracketed shots that conform them to one, Using all the available colors , Light and shadows should make a lot better sharper picture. Tonight i will shoot this floral shop thats lit up and is beautiful in Indianapolis off southport. Also i will shoot this in 12 bit to compare Applws qith oranges. I have one of my camera settings to Brackets where i have the 14 bit setup. Most likely i will incorporate the 14 bits in Portraits as well. Landscape is my general setting for shooting everything or Action. I love the D300 i take her with me to work...lol. At least she doesn't talk back...
#25. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 24
San Jose, US
Gary in today's world most printers and monitors work in sRGB. Now the net statement may blow your mind, but it is likely that your display will not show you all the colors that are capable in the color space you are in. This is especially true of Pro Photo space. Printer drivers take your image and translate the file to something they can produce. That is why programs like Photoshop have the ability to show you which colors are out of Gamut as they will not print correctly and usually you select how these will be printed by the perceptual choices you make so you get close. Some of the cheaper monitors don't even display the full color space of sRGB but rather dither the colors on the screen to make you think they do. Some MAC monitors also have this problem. That said, even though you can't see what is going on, the computer is still working with all the bits you captured in the color space you selected, so all the reasons for working in hi bit and broad color spaces still apply.
#34. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 33
I don't know about Elements but I would expect it does. There is a link above to a site where you can download ProPhotoRGB and use it in NX2, though, which would also work with Elements if it didn't already have it.
#36. "RE: "To 14 bit or not to 14 bit, that is the question?"" In response to Reply # 35
You can download a free trial of Elements from Adobe and check for sure.
You may want to have a look at Lightroom as well; more expensive than Elements but better at organizing and publishing photos, and it has the same raw 'engine' as ACR. You can also set up Lightroom to use NX2 as an external editor, or process raw files in NX2 and save as TIFF for import (you could import the save TIFF files into Elements too I think).