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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Nikon Speedlights & Lighting topic #61155
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Subject: "Auto ISO and Flash" Previous topic | Next topic
VR8 Silver Member Nikonian since 04th May 2008Tue 02-Apr-13 08:29 AM
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"Auto ISO and Flash"


Ottawa, CA
          

I posted on this in the D7100 forum and it was confirmed that the in camera flash respects the Auto ISO settings while external but in hot shoe flashes do not and use, often double the ISO. Does anyone know why or how to get around this. It seems strange that this was not fixed on the newer D7100 model.
My work around is Easy ISO, but it would be nice to use Auto ISO with fill Flash in my nature work.

Thanks


Victor

My website: www.rakmilphotography.com

  

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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Tue 02-Apr-13 01:13 PM
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#1. "RE: Auto ISO and Flash"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 02-Apr-13 01:14 PM by mklass

Tacoma, US
          

As far as I know, Auto ISO was never designed to account for flash. It was designed to compensate for low ambient light when a specific minimum shutter speed is desired. So there is nothing to "fix" as it works as designed.

By trying to use flash with Auto ISO, you are attempting to do something that the camera is not designed to do. You are introducing another variable in the exposure that the camera cannot account for. If you see it "working" it is by accident, not design. (The onboard flash is pretty weak, so, depending on the scene, it may not be contributing more than a little fill, anyway.)

There have been many threads about this in the past, but people seem intent on ignoring the design limits of Auto-ISO and complain that it is broken.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Tue 02-Apr-13 05:01 PM
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#2. "RE: Auto ISO and Flash"
In response to Reply # 1


Toronto, CA
          

The user manual for the 7100 specifically states "ISO sensitivity is adjusted appropriately when flash is used" (page 81).

So unless there is a firmware problem, or unless the user manual lies, it SHOULD work.

I don't have one to try it -- yet!

----
Dennis Smith.

  

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VR8 Silver Member Nikonian since 04th May 2008Tue 02-Apr-13 05:08 PM
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#3. "RE: Auto ISO and Flash"
In response to Reply # 2


Ottawa, CA
          

The mystery thickens. As soon as I can I will re-read the manual and re-test in different modes.


Victor

My website: www.rakmilphotography.com

  

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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Tue 02-Apr-13 05:08 PM
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#4. "RE: Auto ISO and Flash"
In response to Reply # 2


Tacoma, US
          

I wonder what "appropriately" means. What gets adjusted in what order?

Mick
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or
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Chris Platt Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Sep 2012Tue 02-Apr-13 11:03 PM
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#5. "RE: Auto ISO and Flash"
In response to Reply # 4


Newburg, US
          

The D7000 manual says the same thing. There's nothing like putting a flash on a camera and trying - which I just did. I mounted an SB800 on my D7000 and took a few shots of a small plant. I took shots without flash, and with TTL BL and TTL. It wasn't a very controlled series, but with flash, the camera chose lower ISO settings than it did without it. TTL and TTL BL ISOs were closer to each other, but since these were handheld shots and my framing varied slightly from shot to shot, I can't draw any conclusions other than the camera must have appropriately adjusted ISO along with everything else, since every shot was properly exposed as I adjusted the shutter speed from 1/250 to 1/3200.

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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Wed 03-Apr-13 12:18 AM
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#6. "RE: Auto ISO and Flash"
In response to Reply # 5


Tacoma, US
          

Interesting. I assume you also had flash sync speed set to Auto FP to shoot those high SS. Or was there just a lot of ambient light?

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberWed 03-Apr-13 12:45 AM
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#7. "RE: Auto ISO and Flash"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>I posted on this in the D7100 forum and it was confirmed that
>the in camera flash respects the Auto ISO settings while
>external but in hot shoe flashes do not and use, often double
>the ISO. Does anyone know why or how to get around this. It
>seems strange that this was not fixed on the newer D7100
>model.
>My work around is Easy ISO, but it would be nice to use Auto
>ISO with fill Flash in my nature work.

There have been dozens of threads over the year on this. It is clear that using Auto ISO does not work in any expected manor with flash.

The results have definitely improved with each newer camera, and maybe they will get something that works well eventually, but for now, I think it is best to simply avoid using Auto ISO with flash.

Russ
Nikonian Moderator
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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Chris Platt Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Sep 2012Wed 03-Apr-13 01:16 AM
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#8. "RE: Auto ISO and Flash"
In response to Reply # 6


Newburg, US
          

Yes auto FP.

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VR8 Silver Member Nikonian since 04th May 2008Wed 03-Apr-13 11:06 AM
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#9. "RE: Auto ISO and Flash"
In response to Reply # 7


Ottawa, CA
          

Sorry to have opened an old thread, one would have hoped this to have been solved. Will keep my eyes open to see if this evolves. My own tests last night showed inconsistency. Thanks

Victor

My website: www.rakmilphotography.com

  

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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Wed 03-Apr-13 01:24 PM
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#10. "RE: Auto ISO and Flash"
In response to Reply # 9


Tacoma, US
          

Victor,

Solved is the wrong word. There is nothing wrong. Auto ISO works as designed -for non-flash situations. When you add flash to the equation, you are trying to use a tool improperly.

People who say Auto ISO doesn't work because they can't use it with flash are like people who say their wrench is defective because it can't drive a nail.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

  

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VR8 Silver Member Nikonian since 04th May 2008Wed 03-Apr-13 04:10 PM
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#11. "RE: Auto ISO and Flash"
In response to Reply # 10


Ottawa, CA
          

My apologies for a misconception. Point taken. I was hoping to use flash at high shutter speeds while having some flexibility with aperture. I was using easy ISO, shutter speed in excess of 1/1000th, ISO 100, with the variables being ISO and aperture. I wanted to reduce those variables to aperture alone. Clearly that is not feasible. I understand others want this functionality as well, hence a solution to a desire. Not a solution to something broken.

Thanks and regards,


Victor

My website: www.rakmilphotography.com

  

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Arkayem Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in flash photography Charter MemberWed 03-Apr-13 06:42 PM
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#12. "RE: Auto ISO and Flash"
In response to Reply # 11


Richmond Hill, GA (Savannah), US
          

>My apologies for a misconception. Point taken. I was hoping
>to use flash at high shutter speeds while having some
>flexibility with aperture. I was using easy ISO, shutter speed
>in excess of 1/1000th, ISO 100, with the variables being ISO
>and aperture. I wanted to reduce those variables to aperture
>alone. Clearly that is not feasible. I understand others want
>this functionality as well, hence a solution to a desire. Not
>a solution to something broken.
>
>Thanks and regards,
>
>
>Victor
>
>My website: www.rakmilphotography.com

I understand your need. You can come close to your desired solution by simply using Regular TTL (Not TTL-BL), Auto FP High Speed Sync, ISO to whatever you want, Camera Manual mode and set the shutter on 1/1000 and the aperture to whatever you want.

Then, the Regular TTL flash system will compute the correct flash power for that combination. This will not work for TTL-BL.

The Regular TTL flash system will compute the correct flash power for whatever combination of ISO, Aperture, and Shutter you chose.

However, since it is Regular TTL, it will not take the ambient into consideration, so you must choose settings that will make a dark image without the flash. If you want to allow some ambient into the shot, then you have to reduce the FEC by around 1 ev.

And it's up to you to make sure you don't pick a combination that will require more flash power than you have. Remember that in High Speed Sync mode, the maximum flash power is cut approzimately in half from normal flash sync.

Russ
Nikonian Moderator
Russell MacDonald Photography
Nikon CLS Practical Guide

  

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Chris Platt Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Sep 2012Thu 04-Apr-13 04:03 PM
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#13. "RE: Auto ISO and Flash"
In response to Reply # 9
Thu 04-Apr-13 04:04 PM by Chris Platt

Newburg, US
          

I posted some comparison results here that weren't relevant to the conversation, so I have deleted them.

Sorry.

Visit my gallery.

  

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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Nikon Speedlights & Lighting topic #61155 Previous topic | Next topic


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