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On the basis that Sony have said the Alpha 100 sensor is not the same as the one found in the D200, I suspect we'll find it appearing here as well.
Guy Collier Photography | My Flickr | SWPP, BPPA and DWF Pro Member Bodies: Nikons: D3 & D300 Nikkors: 14-24mm f2.8, 24-70mm f2.8, 70-200mm f2.8 VR, 35mm f2, 50mm f1.4, 85mm f1.4 | Tamron 90mm f2.8 Macro
#7. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 6
Who wants a threaded release?
Anyway, if it is the D70 replacement, I'll be curious to see how it stacks up and what will make it different than the D200 (other than build quality alone). I'm presuming it will have the same chip but different pipeline? I'm also curious to see how it stacks up to noise... I really wish they would have kept the megapixels down and focused on the noise issue... Would have fit MY shooting perfectly and that's what it's all about! hehe
#9. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 8
Somehow I doubt it will meter w/ AIS... Extra cost in a body where most users will never benefit would probably not work out for Nikon too well and would take away from a users need to buy a semi-pro or pro body.
It will probably be a D70 with more megapixels and a D200 style menu only without the different banks... I would say it will probably take pieces off the D50 and downsize a bit while either retaining the CF cards of the D70 OR going to SDHC but I think people would probably be upset at that... So I'm going to say they'll stick with CF.
Hopefully it gets a CAM-1000 AF module, but I bet it doesn't...
Hopefully it gains the built-in flash features of the D200... which I don't see why it wouldn't.
Having used a D70 for the past 2 years, I'm actually more interested in a D200-grade camera, and I am guessing this new unit will fall somewhere inbetween; however I am none-the-less curious to see what niche it fills.
My problem with this is the fact that Nikon hasn't been really all that good at providing the people with the product.
The D50 and D70s as body only options are not readily available (can't find one locally or at B&H/Adorama), the D200 body only is equally scarce (though it seems you can find one with an 18-70mm which is how mine was purchased). However the D2X and D2Hs are usually available.
If they want to introduce yet another body, especially in this range, I hope they get their production issues figured out!
If the body design displayed in the teasers means anything, then it is definitely not a D200 upgrade. The strap brackets and body profile make it look like they used the D50 or D70 body, for the most part.
I'm going to say that the D200 battery with fuel gauge will trickle down... If for nothing else than so they can make one battery of this type. Also requiring those of us with 3a's to have to upgrade.
And yes, this would be a great replacement of the D50 for me to compliment the D200, IF its noise performance is up there with the D50 and ESPECIALLY if it gains a CAM-1000 AF module... but I'm going to stab again at it and say they won't put the CAM-1000 in this new body.
I'm also willing to bet it gains a 2.5" screen... If for nothing else so Nikon can make one screen rather than two... Of course, this leaves the D50 in the dark and there's not much real estate to be had on the D50 or its successor, so we'll see. They always figure out a way to get bigger screens it seems.
this is my first post, guys. I have been reading posts on this site for over a year and thought I'd better jump on the bandwagon. I just bought a new D70s yesterday and already have had 2 d70's. I sold one to a friend to lure him to Nikon. He had a KM film camera and lenses previously. Then I saw this post on the prospective D80 or whatever and I thought "Duh- what timing!". But I have been very happy with my previous D70's and i like the idea of having both cameras' controls match. I had looked at the D200 and Fuji S3 but I think I like the D70s overall for my use. But that D80 or whatever may be the next step for me. Of course, that camera will not be on shelves for awhile and I can shoot this weekend with my D70(s)'s. I still use 2 F100's also. Could Thom Hogan be right and we will have a D80/D60/D30 spec'd all across the price ranges?
#21. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 0
I don't get the point of these ads. Maybe the Japanese one actually has information about a camera - the European one says nothing to me except "Nikon has a new camera coming". Um, thanks for sharing...
All a campaign like this does is hurt sales of their existing cameras.
#22. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 21
Salt Lake City, US
Actually, a campaign like this generates a huge amount of web speculation and free publicity via the buzz. If the new camera ships close to the introduction (not typical for Nikon, but a strategy that Canon does quite well) then the hit to current inventory sales will be negligible.
>Actually, a campaign like this generates a huge amount of >web speculation and free publicity via the buzz. If the new >camera ships close to the introduction (not typical for >Nikon, but a strategy that Canon does quite well) then the >hit to current inventory sales will be negligible.
Not only does it generate buzz, but it's got everyone speculating about just WHAT Nikon is going to do....but if they want to do a lot better than Canon's strategy, they might do well to take a page out of Hasselblad's play book....WHEN THE CAMERA IS ANNOUNCED, HAVE THE PRODUCT AVAILABLE ON THE DATE PROMISED. PERIOD. Now, I realize that the price point is at the opposite end of the spectrum, but a lot of my friends who shoot medium format agree that when Hasselblad promises a new camera...it delivers...and they are rarely left panting and pawing at the glass of their favorite camera dealers....because the cameras that were "promised" aren't available for photographers who are willing to make the investment. Nikon will be squandering a lot of good will if they DON'T have this daggoned camera available IMMEDIATELY. This latest drama with the lack of availability of D200's, D70s's, etc., is for the birds, in my humble opinion.
I'm sure that having a 2.5 in TFT monitor (along with an assumed competitive price) would make D70 heads turn. So would better body sealing. Other than that, I liked my D70. Pricepoint will be critical, but Canon and Sony will keep Nikon in line on that score. What I want to know is.....
What I want to know is....Does Nikon have the manufacturing capacity to produce sufficient quanties to meet market demand? Or will "we can put you on the list" be the nikon owners' mantra, whether you own a D2 series, want a lens or are just entering DSLR photography? Nikon's gun is loaded; they are ready to fire. Will someone tell them to lift the barrel, so the muzzle isn't pointed at their foot.?
#27. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 26
My feelings exactly. When the D200 was announced I got interested but after months of un-availability I'd talked myself out of it. So if Nikon announces a camera in August I'd expect to actually be able to buy 'body only' in spring '07.
This isn't just a Nikon thing; pre-announcement of technology products gets goofier every year. It's an industry disease, like mail-in rebates. Note that all it takes is one marketing guy doing a Flash animation.
#29. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 28
you really think you'll be able to get a body by next spring? Bet ya can't get a body AND a battery to run it by next spring!
Given the fact that Nikon Chairman Kimura characterized the Thailand fab as running flat-out keeping up with current demand, I'd love to know how they plan to engineer in additional capacity for this new body. One also wonders if the announcement will be accompanied by new lenses like the much anticipated 70-300 VR. If so, someone needs to hire more hamsters and put 'em on the wheels ASAP.
#30. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 29
>Given the fact that Nikon Chairman Kimura characterized the >Thailand fab as running flat-out keeping up with current >demand, I'd love to know how they plan to engineer in >additional capacity for this new body.
Good point. I agree, and that's why I'm guessing this body will be a replacement for an existing camera rather than an addition.
#31. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 27
Palo Alto, US
>So if Nikon announces a camera in August >I'd expect to actually be able to buy 'body only' in spring >'07.
Yeah, I waited a few months for my D200 (it was worth every second of the wait) and am now waiting for my 18-200VR for months.
I really hope for Nikon's sake that they have stock loaded up to handle a large percentage of the initial demand this time. The fact that D70s's are hard to come by gives some hope.
How cool would it be, if they can do what Steven Jobs does every time after his 'one more thing' announcements : "Amazing stuff, right? And as of this very moment, you can buy it at Apple stores worldwide and online at apple.com!"
#33. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 0
It will be interesting to see what do they include. My guesses are the cam1000 will be definitely in, even if it means simplification in the options. Also it will share the LCD with the D200. I assume Nikon wants to share as many parts as possible with other bodies as it keeps the cost down. Other than that, pretty much the same as the D70, probably some smaller things included which hard to predict, perhaps direct Kelvin white balance or mirror lockup. Both would be welcome in my opinion and would explain the more control part of the ad.
#34. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 33
I suspect a bigger surprise than any of you are guessing. This kind of marketing campagn is unusual for Nikon. They are obviously trying to build up some buzz. Also, the words on the global site really hint at some surprises. They wouldn't do this for just an minor update to the D70 with exist features from other models.
I'm sure there will be a lot of expected changes, but there might be some unexpected as well.
Also, everyone is assuming a D70s replacement. Might this be a replacement for both the D50 and the D70's at a better price point? probably not, but I'm just surmising there may be more to this than we're guessing.
#35. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 34
Guess you don't remember the minor "fanfare" over the introduction of the D70s. Even some folks here were sending volley after volley of posts about the "upgrade" to the D70. Then someone pointed out the "expanded monitor" amount to a tenth of an inch diagonally, the greater flash coverage meant that you'd see a difference between a shot at 18mm versus one shot at 20mm. Lots of the 'electogoodies' (read electronic improvements) that, maybe, did represent an upgrade, were easily downloadable as a click up in firmware.
Nikon's obviously gotten hold of some Mad. Ave. types, to do the marketing. They are feeding their engineers well, obvioulsy. Now if they could get their manufacturing gerbils to either wake up or demand another plant or two...
#37. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 36
I, for one, am happy to see Nikon come out with the polycarbonate exterior/metal frame bodies, I've had metal camera bodies, (still do, actually), and I much prefer the lighter weight. Put the seals on for some weatherproofing and a 100k shutter mechanism and it would be perfect for me, though my D70s is still going quite strong!
I just hope this one has mirror lock up for long exposures! If it keeps the 3 frame/sec of the D70/s, that would be more than adequate for my needs.
#41. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 40
gladly. VR and anti-dust technology are both cheap to add to a product and will (very soon) be considered standard equipment on even point and shoot cameras. One company, SONY, a company very, very accustomed to responding to plain old consumers, might be toying with the obvious 'next level' in must have features on even an entry level camera.
sorry if took consumer level as a slam. not at all. the consumer level is the level where most corporations get their bread and butter.
#42. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 41
Personally I never understood the buzz about both the antishake and andtidust technology. The VR in lenses are much more effective than the antishake in the camera body, so I would prefer Nikon's way. Antidust is another thing, you need to clean your camera anyway, getting a sensor cleaning brush and do 2-3 additional strokes to your standard cleaning process is not something difficult. Adding more complexity to the body not only would make it more expensive, but would make it more prone to fail which is also not something I need...
I've had a D70 for a year or so and, about 6 or 8 weeks ago, bought a D200. I've probably taken a couple thousand shots and changed lenses myriad times...and not one speck of dust on the sensor. Of course, i do follow Nikon's cousel on keeping my body downturned when changing lenses and i refrain from changing in a breeze or a known dusty area.
I'm getting the sense, from looking at some of the posts on sensor cleaning, that there are some of us that don't believe in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy. I do know that if you drag anything acrose a surface that can hold a charge, you'll actually attract dust to that surface.
Btw, I've never even taken an air blast to my sensor and both my D70 and D200 sensors are clean.
>I do know that if you drag anything acrose a surface that >can hold a charge, you'll actually attract dust to that >surface.
Unfortunately totally unscientific urban myth as the surface that is cleaned never charged. This is usually the case when someone makes a comment without any knowledge of how semiconductor devices work. Oh well..
---------------- Looking for an authorized dealer that sells photography talent. Need regular import. Grey market will not do!
Zalán... As a former K-M user, I've got to say that in-camera anti-shake was one thing that really impressed me about my old Maxxum 5D. It's not for people that have VR lenses, but not everyone can afford the absolute top notch lenses. It's a good way for students and the like to get a lot more bang for their buck. While it would probably be pointless on the high-end Nikons, I think it would certainly have a place on the D50/D70 level of camera. Besides, you can always turn it off if you have AS in the lens.
#46. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 39
Salt Lake City, US
Maybe back in the day.
Sony's products lines have suffered badly over the last several years because Sony's no longer an electronics company, they're a content provider. Sony has done an abysmal job of providing good MP3 player products since they've been way too proprietary. What consumer benefit does Memory Stick bring to the photo market?
Nikon has had huge success in the DSLR market, and that would be impossible if Nikon was as out of touch as you suggest. Nikon does have a deaf ear to some consumer wishes, but at least with the DSLR line Nikon does a stellar job of delivering products that appeal to the market.
Sony, on the other hand, bought a product line that wasn't able to garner much market share. What customer base is Sony responding to when it offers a warmed-over Konica-Minolta system?
#47. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 46
I agree. Sony is fighting a lost battle... I do NOT see Sony competing with Nikon/Canon in any way... Perhaps some buzz, but I don't see the masses running out to purchase a Sony system...
On the upside, they have offered a very comprehensive set for a new player... Though some are just wore out KM products, some are "new" to the market... But I don't see what they're offering to be enough to sway either the new SLR purchaser and particularly not a current user. I seriously doubt they enter into the commercial market at all, ever.
They're best hope is the D50/D70 consumer and I don't know about your area but Nikon has the D50 spread all over around here... More so than even the Rebel.
I think the the D50 market consists of consumers with a profile that SONY would be well poised to snatch from Nikon. SONY is a well known consumer brand, even to kids. Nikon is much less so. D50 buyers are people with disposable income who aren't necessarily photographers, even budding ones. They like the interchangability of lenses and the ease of use of the D50. The basic technology behind digital photography is realtively well known now and SONY, who might have invested heavily in "memory stick", is a large enough company to regroup.
Nikon is basically like Rolls Royce/Cadillac, etc. They have a solid reputation and it builds quality products. Better quality than anyone else? Of course not. As good as, but not better than. Unless you are in the pro market, people who have very narrow and uncompromiseable needs, people buy what returns the greatest "utility" or satisfaction per dollar spent.
I trust the competition for the upper Coolpix/lower middle (D50/70) DSL market will get red hot. I don't think it will be won on techology--there's too much tweedle dum/tweedle dee out there. Bang for the buck and customer service will determine who stands when the smoke clears...and that's a good thing for all concerned.
The Great Yellow Father (Eastman Kodak) makes great products (though they were obviously the "wrong" products), gives good service, returns water it takes from the Genesee River for it's manufacturing in a cleaner condition than it took it out, treats it's employees better than many american corporations...yet Kodak was wobbling for quite a while and they had to drop 30,000 jobs in one city (Rochester, NY) just to survive the fat lip and bloody nose Fuji dealt it. How good you are or how good your products are is not what matters today. Engaging and serving your customer base and giving them what they want is what matters.
>SONY is a well known consumer brand, even to kids. Nikon is >much less so. D50 buyers are people with disposable income >who aren't necessarily photographers, even budding ones. >They like the interchangability of lenses and the ease of >use of the D50. The basic technology behind digital >photography is realtively well known now and SONY, who might >have invested heavily in "memory stick", is a large enough >company to regroup.
Man oh man, say what? Unless you're after a Mavica or compact digital... I don't see anyone thinking "Sony" when you say "Photography"... even if they do provide most of the sensor products that go into our nice lil' digital cameras. Regardless, I don't see Sony getting a market share because they're Sony. Particularly since their product is more money than the present D50 or D70s... AND probably going to be less available in your corner camera shop. I also wouldn't say that D50 buyers are people with disposable income, who aren't photographers... I don't get this statement at all... Most all of the D50 owners I know are either new or serious photographers who do NOT have income... which is why the D50 exists.
>Nikon is basically like Rolls Royce/Cadillac, etc. They have >a solid reputation and it builds quality products. Better >quality than anyone else? Of course not. As good as, but not >better than. Unless you are in the pro market, people who >have very narrow and uncompromiseable needs, people buy what >returns the greatest "utility" or satisfaction per dollar >spent.
I'm not sure where to go with that statement?
>I trust the competition for the upper Coolpix/lower middle >(D50/70) DSL market will get red hot. I don't think it will >be won on techology--there's too much tweedle dum/tweedle >dee out there. Bang for the buck and customer service will >determine who stands when the smoke clears...and that's a >good thing for all concerned.
Agreed, I don't see Sony pulling away in this market... It will most likely stay a Canon/Nikon game for a while yet.
>The Great Yellow Father (Eastman Kodak) makes great products >(though they were obviously the "wrong" products), gives >good service, returns water it takes from the Genesee River >for it's manufacturing in a cleaner condition than it took >it out, treats it's employees better than many american >corporations...yet Kodak was wobbling for quite a while and >they had to drop 30,000 jobs in one city (Rochester, NY) >just to survive the fat lip and bloody nose Fuji dealt it. >How good you are or how good your products are is not what >matters today. Engaging and serving your customer base and >giving them what they want is what matters.
the "wrong" products? Huh? I don't really care about any of that.... It's always been a tight market with Kodak/Fuji with Agfa/Ilford pulling up the rear... Fuji kept with their products longer and had a consistant quality standard that put it in the forefront with many photographers that made their living off it... Likewise though, there were plenty of careers made with Tri-X and other Kodak products... I don't think either manufacturer is really seen in one light or another (unless you got burned on Kodak switching products around), it's just what happened... All film producing has been cut back for the very reason of the start of the topic (uh, digital cameras).
Time will tell, but Nikon & Canon have been doing the right thing and the others are pulling up the rear...
by "photographers" I mean someone who either makes all their living from photography or has met one of more of the milestones you would expect a person of that skill level to have met, e.g., participation in a juried show in a major venue, a cover or two on a magazine with more of a circulation than 5, due to their demonstrated skill level. Technically some would call that a professional photographer, but I'm sure many here do exhibit in juried shows (with pro-level competition) or do "covers" without it being their sole source of income or demonstrate in other ways skill levels that are fully professional.
A photographer may well purchase a D50,but I suspect it would be for a different purpose that what I would call a photoenthusiast, my name for a person with a keen, though still relatively undeveloped, interest in the craft--who may well, one day, be able to call themselves a "professional" photographer.
I think you'd be surprised at the number of D50's and like quality DSLRs from other manufactureres are being sold at Staples and/or Besy Buy (or Best Buy clones). As a matter of fact, I wouldn't doubt that the lion's share of D50's are sold at discount consumer electronics stores. Save snooping around for a bargain CF card or a wayward "clearance" battery, I don't think you'd find many photographers shopping in those stores. Of course, X hundred dollars in revenue is X hundred in revenue, so I don't think Nikon (or any of its competitors) give two hoots about where their cameras are sold.
Kodaks' ills with Fuji are pretty well known and involved, essentially, a well known, great product company--that thought that it's name (and well deserved reputation) alone would insure its future. Yes, at some level it came down to digital versus film. But it really came down to old fashioned, smug thinking versus out-of-the-box thinking that made no assumptions: just watched consumer behavior. I believe Kodak is now the world's largest digital camera manufacturer in the world, but they got that way by realizing that being number 1 only means something to number 2--as they plan and scheme to overtake you.
I encourage Nikon to bring out this new camera. Perhaps it will be the "rope-a-dope" that the D70 represented against the (then) affordable Canon high quality digital SLR. My hope is just that all the "photographers" here (even the enthusiasts here want to be photographers) don't get burned by Nikon putting out yet another product that they can't actually deliver the goods.
people on nikonians are photographers of various skill levels, but they are all 'photographers.' On the other hand, I'm sure there are loads of D50's in the hands of what I would call a 'snapshooter.' Such a person may well have an interest in using a D50 and may, occasionally, take a picture of the quality that would raise eyebrows even here. On the other hand, I think most here wouldn't want to 'stumble' onto such a picture from shear luck and would, i would guess, want to learn enough to actually plan and execute such an image. Some people who approach photography that way own D50's. Lots of folks who just want to "take pictures" own them too. I doubt that many of "them" would be on this site.
Nikon, on the other hand, cannot be bothered with lowering itself to the consumer level.
Eh? Well the runaway sales success of the D50/70/200 must have been a complete fluke for Nikon then. My D200 gives this consumer everything he needs and more. Somebody, somewhere, must have been listening.
My guess is that the new D?0 will be an upgraded D70s with a bigger LCD and using ENEL3e batteries. Don't expect better sealing or mirror lock-up. Perhaps expect the CAM1000 module (the 900 is very long in the tooth now debuting on the F80) but with 5 AF areas rather than 11. Possibly expect a move to SD cards to move it in line with the D50. Do expect to get less pictures from your ENEL3e batteries
The D50 buyer and the D200 buyer are, generally speaking, not the same market at all. I could see a D200 owner buying a D50 for backup on a trip of a lifetime (because the D50 is relatively inexpensive). But I think it would be the rare person who would equally contemplate buying a D200 vs a D50.
The D200 isn't as popular as it is because its such a great camera. Little is new there. What is new, is that much of a previously available $5,000 set of features being put on the table at one third the cost only 18 months later. Only one leeetle problem. Some bonehead at Nikon figured that most of the photo-pro or photo-enthusiast world, after seeing the D200 would just go back to sipping their tea and munching their crumpets. Then they went for the "bone head with oak leaf clusters" award and brought out a VR, 18-200, lightweight, macro focusing, S-nikkor...for around $700...and waited for someone to "notice" it and decide whether or not people would actually want one?
I mean, if you told a friend that a car company just came out with a car that was all wheel drive, got 75 miles to the gallon, came standard with air conditioning, 18 speaker stereo system and a 500,000 mile warranty...and that it just went on the market for $18,000, would you really be surprised if you felt this wind around you and had to squint as he disappeared into the distance, seeking any dealer who would sell him one?
>The D50 buyer and the D200 buyer are, generally speaking, >not the same market at all. I could see a D200 owner buying >a D50 for backup on a trip of a lifetime (because the D50 is >relatively inexpensive). But I think it would be the rare >person who would equally contemplate buying a D200 vs a D50.
You're dead wrong here... I own a D50 and a D200 and use them equally for their own reasons... Likewise I know of several users that use a D2X and D70 equally...
#59. "RE: Are we looking at a Full Frame camera?" In response to Reply # 58
I would say for certainty it's not full frame...
If a full frame does come about, it will be in a "D3" or something similar and PERHAPS trickle down. If and when this does ever happen... Honestly I do not see full frame hitting the Nikon market for at LEAST another two years.
#60. "RE: Are we looking at a Full Frame camera?" In response to Reply # 58
Palo Alto, US
>Perhaps Nikon has taken a huge leap, and created a Full >Frame camera, to compete with the Canon EOS 5D. > >I think it fits with this slogan: "...meet the demands of >passionate photo enthusiasts".
No, this says that it is a consumer oriented camera with serious features, just like the D70. If it were something more, it would mention 'demanding professionals', etc. and wouldn't have 'affordability' as one of the two main points.
I say it's a D70s replacement at about the same price, with increase in resolution to 10.2MP and addition of a few features that were previously unseen in this price segment, like they did with the D70 and then the D200.
#62. "RE: Are we looking at a Full Frame camera?" In response to Reply # 61
Simple answer: high cost. Producing a full-frame chip costs a lot more than the APS sized one, even Canon who makes full frame cameras for a couple of years now, cannot make it cheap enough for the consumer market.
#63. "RE: Are we looking at a Full Frame camera?" In response to Reply # 62
Yes, producing a full frame sensor DSLR will be expensive, and judging from figures from Nikon for this year vs. next year's, R&D isn't getting a big budget = unlikely that Nikon will be going into full frame yet. In fact, they see profits from imaging products taking a dip next year, but with corporate income expected to rise, the biggest contributor being their precision instrumetns division. Will this mean Nikon will take its mind off DSLRs for a while?
I've gotten so used to the APS-sized sensor that I don't see the point of going full-frame anymore. All I want is that 70-300 VR lens, whenever or if-ever it will come into being.
D80? Just get it on the shelves when people start out looking for it ok? I was looking early this year for the D200, and wound it with the D2x. My wife wasn't too happy with that, but I was, like grinning from ear to ear
Let's see what's coming out next from Nikon and I'd love to hear what other nikonians have to say about it.
john aguas a very happy nikonian in the Philippines
john aguas a very happy nikonian in the Philippines
#65. "RE: Are we looking at a Full Frame camera?" In response to Reply # 63
John - People continue to speculate that "in two years" Nikon will have a full 24x36mm sensor. Past history says "no." Ever since the Nikn F, Nikon has NEVER cut off past lenses from future cameras -- like Canon has. Canon SLRs have featured screw-in mounts, the breech lock (which was actually quite remarkable) and the bayonette -- while Nikon has stayed with one mount. You can use your old 50mm f2.0 Nikkor lens to take a photo on a D2XS. It won't auto focus, or "talk" to other features -- but with manual exposure and focus -- you can take a photo and a darned good one. Based on more than 50 years of history, Nikon will not do anything to erase the backward compatability of the large number and volume of lenses it has marketed for the smaller sensor -- never. And they don't have to. Technology is rapidly rendering this a non-issue concerning image quality. Remember -- 24x36mm was at one time called "double frame" because it was actually two 35mm motion picture frames! People need to buy one wider angle lens, enjoy the 1.5x magnification of their longer lenses and take photos!
#66. "RE: Are we looking at a Full Frame camera?" In response to Reply # 58
No one can say whether or not your prediction is correct. There is no doubt, though, that Nikon must "answer" the (barely) affordable full frame that Canon has put "on the table."
Thinking out loud here, from a marketing standpoint, what better way to smoke out the (just barely) "holding-out-by-the-tips-of-their-fingers filmheads", who see that digital quality is now, way, way, more than "close 'nuf for gummint work." If they are sitting on good (and you all know how "good" glass can make you feel) nikon glass and they 'just can't stomach my wide glass being trashed and forced to pay near $1,000 for even a midling ultrawide (i.e., the 12-24 f/4 Nikkor)' they could well be ripe for the plucking.
Technology is certainly equal to producing a FF equal to a D50 (maybe even a D70) for a reasonable price. A $1500-$2000-ish FF from Nikon would, in essence, clean out the last of the old film heads. At that point, those of us who like DX (and are committed that way) could stay their course. Meanwhile, the old filmheads, now solidly on digital ground, form the "beach-head" so that Nikon won't be accused of lying when they said they would never go FF. Actually, the last time I heard them answer the question, they said they were "dedicated" to the dx sensor.
As Roseann Rosanadana used to say....'Oh, that's different...Never mind.'
#70. "RE: Are we looking at a Full Frame camera?" In response to Reply # 69
I have a 20mm 2.8 D nikkor. I bought it three years ago. I loved playing with it; the perspective for nature, even urban scenes was....delicious. Now, looking thru the viewfinder of my old D70 or my D200 with my 20mm is like looking through a lens between 28mm and 35mm. In short, about as exciting as watching paint dry...and useless for the purposes to which one might put a 20mm lens on a FF camera.
#72. "RE: Are we looking at a Full Frame camera?" In response to Reply # 66
>Thinking out loud here, from a marketing standpoint, what >better way to smoke out the (just barely) >"holding-out-by-the-tips-of-their-fingers filmheads", who >see that digital quality is now, way, way, more than "close >'nuf for gummint work."
It will take more than a 35mm sensor to accomplish the transition for me. What I dislike most about digital is the lack of dynamic range. That's what keeps me shooting Reala, NPS and all the other outstanding emulsions. Fuji seems to be working on this problem, but there's only silence from Nikon...
Active: F100, FG (x4), N6006 (x2), L35AF f/2.8, Mamiya Super Deluxe f/1.5, Yashica Lynx 5000, Yashica Lynx f/1.4, Olympus Stylus Epic f/2.8, Coolscan III, Sony Mavica something-or-other (for eBay)
Sold: FE chrome, FE black, FE2 chrome, FA black, Koni Omega 200, Ricoh Diacord L (x2), Yashica Electro GSN (x2), Minox GL, Olympus XA
#73. "RE: Are we looking at a Full Frame camera?" In response to Reply # 72
>What I dislike most about digital is the lack of dynamic range.
I think 'technically' that the best color films have more dyanmic range than the best digital sensors in cameras today, but not much. Average vs. average is even closer than that. This combined with 'grain-less' pictures in digital, the ability to see your results immediately, not being dependent on someone to process your film correctly (not even considering the cost, time), etc... makes digital a hands down winner of overall image capturing... at least to me, we're all different.
Good B&W film wins hands down over digital (in dynamic range).
#74. "RE: Are we looking at a Full Frame camera?" In response to Reply # 66
Bidford on Avon, UK
>There is no doubt, though, that Nikon must "answer" the >(barely) affordable full frame that Canon has put "on the >table." >
Why? Speaking as a marketing professional, I would say that the FF market seems more or less dead -- people love talking about FF and speculating about it, and Canon users love saying how much better Canon is than Nikon because of FF. But Canon have refused to roll it out across their own range.
Keeping a premium place in the market requires you to have a premium product with a Unique Selling Proposition (USP), which then has a halo effect on the rest of the range. Canon have retained their FF because it does that. Nikon's Creative Lighting System provides that for the Nikon range. FF would not give Nikon a USP against Canon. In fact, Canon could carry on boasting 'first to market with full frame'.
This is also why Sony will not be taking over the DSLR market any time soon. Don't believe that people who want to spend $700 on a DSLR don't know about Nikon and Canon. Sales of magazines about purchasing DSLRs far outstrip actual sales of DSLRs -- aspirant owners check the market thoroughly, and are firm adherents of the brands to which they aspire.
On the other hand, Sony are one of the top-three brands (with Canon and Panasonic) for Professional DV equipment. They have a long heritage, beginning with BetaCam, and strong placement in broadcast. DVCam is far superior to Canon's MiniDV. But that's an aside.
#75. "RE: Are we looking at a Full Frame camera?" In response to Reply # 58
Welcome to Nikonians pheti! My guess is that when/if ever, Nikon produces a camera body with a FF sensor, it will/would first appear in a pro-body. The "Mode" dial on the teaser image is a solid indication this is not going to be a pro body.
#77. "RE: Are we looking at a Full Frame camera?" In response to Reply # 76
i have to find out what this "build" thing is all about. As long as it's as sealed as my F100, I'd love my D200 to be about half the weight it is. Modern technology essentially dictates that heft does not equal quality. As a matter of fact (though it was really a day late and a dollar short) I think the F6, a camera that's "all that and a bag o' chips compared to the F5" is lighter (and probably better built) than the F5
#79. "RE: Are we looking at a Full Frame camera?" In response to Reply # 78
a film camera is probably more complex, mechanically, than a digital camera. Just the machinery to move the film (something totally unnecessary in digital) represents whole systems necessary for film that would be superfluous in digital.
#81. "RE: Are we looking at a Full Frame camera?" In response to Reply # 58
I'm pretty sure that the last seven years have distinctly shown which direction Nikon is heading........and it is most definitely NOT heading towards the full frame market. Anyway, if Big N did go and do something crazy like make a full frame camera, I believe the first one would not be aimed at the "enthusiast" market as the ad campaign states.
It looks to me like photographers on both sides of The Force are creating fantastic images with their cameras. I'm not saying which format is better (DX or full frame), but I am saying this:
Nikon made an educated decision to continue with these smaller sized chips and I don't really care if they make a full frame or not.
In fact, if they do go full frame and FORCE me to buy more lenses, I'm going to quit photography and take up basket weaving or something.
#82. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 0
Here's my .02 worth.
10.2 MP seems a litte high for a consumer level camera. Not very many beginers or enthusiasts will need/want such a high pixel count. Larger file sizes and lack of need to print super large photos would be a negative improvement for a 'consumer' level camera.
I was actually hoping for an 8 MP version of the D70s, but none the less, a 10.2 is still welcomed.
Also hoping for a Nikon-brand battery grip for this new model with vertical release and command thumb-wheels.
My guess for a new model number in keeping in tune with D50 and D70 would be a D90. Also the F90 was a semi-pro film camera, so naturally a new digital semi-pro camera would likley be a D90, but that is yet to be seen.
There might be a larger lcd screen than the D200, but that would probably only irritate the D200 owners, especially if the street price is about a grand or less.
#83. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 82
This "D80" looks like the DSLR I've been waiting for. The DSLR camera is finally reaching maturity. I was hoping for an 8 meg camera, but 10 is even bettter. I have a feeling the image quality will match if not exceed the D200, with somewhat lesser build quality. An improved finder over the D70S/D50 would be the icing on the cake for me. I've got my $1000 already set aside.
#86. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 85
I'll second that. Give me a D70s body with 10MP, the D200 finder, CAM 1000 AF, a PC Synch connection, USB2.0 and RGB Histogram and I'm almost sold. Do it for $1,199 bundled w/ Capture NX and I'd be first in line (I know, I know, wishful thinking).
Actually, just put the D200 finder in the D70s...that's really all I want.
#88. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 86
>Actually, just put the D200 finder in the D70s...that's >really all I want.
Wait, the D70s has a viewfinder? My non-s D70 has a viewloser.
Seriously, I didn't notice how bad it was. I took a break from photography, bought the D70, thought everything was great until I whipped out the old N90s body. I actually had to hold it out in front of me to inspect it to see WTH was going on. "Oh, now I see what they mean about the small viewfinder."
I could be completely wrong, but given that Nikon has seemed to have stopped production of the D70s & D50 months ago, my guess is that they're already making them. So maybe we won't see as long a wait as with the D200. Let's hope not anyhow. I figure they are getting this out in plenty of time for Christmas, which is the way to go. Nikon continues to lead the way.
I was in a local camera store yesterday, handling a D200, and I casually mentioned to the guy helping me that I was hoping Nikon would come out with something in between the D70s and the D200, and he confirmed the "announcement" and added that the price point is rumored to be around the $1,300.00 mark.
$1300 US seems a bit high if this camera is to compete with the Sony Alpha A100. It would need to be around $1000 US. I'd be surprised if this camera is anything more than a replacement for the D70s, with more megapixels and a few nicities. I think Nikon has to be careful that there are significant differences between this camera and the D200, with the D200 being much more feature rich. I also think that this camera has to offer more than just more megapixels to get people to upgrade from the D50/D70. However, the extra megapixels might be enough to make someone choose this camera over a Canon (I'll be interested to see how Canon reacts to this new Nikon camera). Elsewhere it has been suggested that this camera will be an addition to the Nikon line, but it doesn't seem like Nikon has the manufacuturing capacity to add a new camera to the line, which is one reason I think it will replace the D70s, another is that from a marketing perspective 6 megapixels for anything other than an entry level camera is probably not going to get much market share in the future.
I agree. If I'm in between the D70s and the D200 (which I am), but can't quite justify the money for the D200 (and I can't--yet), I'm certainly not going to pay $1,300 for something that just has a few more MP's that are not likely to be critical to my needs. If I'm going to spend $1,300, I'll go ahead and shell out a few more bills for the D200.
I would like to see something of a better viewfinder, and an available, fully funcitonal vertical grip (complete with shutter release and command wheel).
I suspect (just a gut feeling really) that there won't be a vertical grip for this new camera, although I hope I'm wrong. Certainly a brighter viewfinder would be most welcome, that's one of the things I don't like about my D70 and one of the reasons I bought I D200.
Don't expect any news about the new DSLR to leak out before the end of the period - Nikon likes to keep everyone hanging until the bitter end.
I just hope the wait is worth it, i.e., the new DSLR has enough new specs/improvements that would be of help to a lot of photographers, both seasoned and up and coming.
The mention of "affordability" makes me doubt if it will be in the same class as the D200, more likely in the mold of the D70 as far as the body is concerned, And I will also rejoice if the AF module is already CAM1000.
D80, or whatever you will be, I hope you will be worth it, and I hope our country gets some of your stocks quickly.
john aguas a very happy nikonian in the Philippines
john aguas a very happy nikonian in the Philippines
Face the facts. Virtually all new Nikkors are designed specifically for the smaller digital format. 24x36 is the 35mm format and we ain't likely to see many new lenses in that series. I would be surprised to see new models for "full frame" Nikons to entirely disappear within a year. That's OK. I shoot film and I getting some real bargains on older Nikkors. Just keep dumpin' that film gear in your rush to get the latest wiz bang digital model
i'm under the impression that the 105 macro is NOT a dx lens. I can fully understand nikon applying VR technology to both film and digital macro shooters. The close quarters and high magnifications common with macro absolutely demand a rock solid platform (read tripod or equivalent)....until now.
The ability to shoot something in nature at near 1:1, covering focusing issues with smaller aperatures and not having to think so much about shutter speed dropping to "gotta get the tripod levels"...is a dream come true; for DSLR shooters and filmheads
>i'm under the impression that the 105 macro is NOT a dx >lens. I can fully understand nikon applying VR technology to >both film and digital macro shooters. The close quarters and >high magnifications common with macro absolutely demand a >rock solid platform (read tripod or equivalent)....until >now. > >The ability to shoot something in nature at near 1:1, >covering focusing issues with smaller aperatures and not >having to think so much about shutter speed dropping to >"gotta get the tripod levels"...is a dream come true; for >DSLR shooters and filmheads
I did say it was not a DX lens... And I do not understand it. VR does NOTHING at macro distances, so what's the point? To double as a short telephoto I assume... Which there again, it's kinda off the mark for the DX crop... So while it's a great lens, it's surprising how full frame 35mm it is.
>Face the facts. Virtually all new Nikkors are designed >specifically for the smaller digital format. 24x36 is the >35mm format and we ain't likely to see many new lenses in >that series.
Maybe so, but I'd rather wait and see. Over the past couple of years, whilst the seven DX Nikkors have been launched - 10.5, 12-24, 17-55, 18-55, 18-70, 18-200, 55-200 - we've also seen seven new or updated "full frame" Nikkors - 24-85, 24-120, 70-200 VR, 200-400 VR, 200 VR, 300 VR, and now 105 Micro VR.
I think 99 percent of the FF buzz is from folks, like myself, who like to have their cake and eat it too. I like the "free" telephotos i get from the DX sized sensor, but the "free" is completely negated by the fact that I don't have any ultra wides anymore (for digital) since my 20mm 2.8, on a digital, wouldn't even qualify as a 28 (about the "longest" wide angle you can contemplate). If Nikon had a FF, I'd buy it so that my glass goes back to the 'correct' perspective AND I can see everything i take immediately. About the only thing 'good' about DX sized stuff is that it's all 'mini', saving weight. It's apparently cheaper to design and produce too. I think both you and I know that (before digital), if we ever heard of hundred of folks waiting for a lightweight, tack sharp, macro focusing 18-200 zoom, with VR technology, for a little over $700...we'd both say they were either on drugs or that they must also believe in the tooth fairy. DX sized sensors does make stuff like that possible. But for all us old filmheads moving over to the D-side, being able to do everything we always did, things in the viewfinder looking like they always had (but being able to be as immediate as digital) would have been the preferred way to go.
Unfortunately, that 20mm f/2.8 doesn't work all that well on the digital bodies (nor does Canon's) and you'd probably end up replacing it with something else ANYWAY.. So what's the point?
A 17-55 f/2.8 on a D2X outperforms a 24-70mm f/2.8 on a 1Ds MkII or a 5D...
From what I've seen, a 12-24mm f/4 on a D2X is not eclipsed by a 17-35mm on film... And it's smaller and cheaper (much cheaper if you go with a 3rd party brand).
Under the current restraints, I really see no benefit to full frame; what you pay for sensor you could replace that wide angle lens and be done.
If resolution keeps getting pushed up, the sensor size will have to increase. However, if that happens, the current line of 35mm lenses will also have to be pushed to a higher standard, which yet AGAIN will negate a reasoning for going to FF for nothing else than making a 20mm f/2.8 work the "way it was supposed to."
Personally, I don't see the traditional 35mm format coming back to the Nikon line and even if it does, it will not be the majority of sales, making it enough of an issue to make a new line of old glass...
Hopefully, Nikon will stick to their DX guns, improve the lens line within the DX realms (bring in a 60mm f/1.4, a 14mm f/2.8, an 18mm PC and an 18mm f/1.4) and keep on improving the performance limits of the 10-12 MP sensors... Leave the bigger sensors to the medium format realm where the glass can cover it.
That's just my opinion and has absolutely NOTHING to do with the D80? since it's NOT full frame!
all things being equal, larger sensors tend to have less noise. every comparison between the D200 and the 5D canon talks about the canon having less noise. And i think the issue, for many, with FF, is that in initial investment is less, since all your glass is immediately useable.
You said: "A 17-55 f/2.8 on a D2X outperforms a 24-70mm f/2.8 on a 1Ds MkII or a 5D... "
What makes you say this? I certainly haven't been able to see identical shots, at equivalent mags, side by side. The stuff I have seen from the 16 MP Canon can give two and quarter a run for it's money.
And given the relative product placements, we'd have to take the 5D off the table; but at iso 800 or higher, it might still blow the D2x into the weeds---in terms of noise
Lens charts, of course, are useless to make such judgements because the real world isn't anything like a chart.
Look at the vignetting issues alone. Go to a Canon forum sometime and see the complaints about their $1,000+ glass on the 5D not performing up to their standards.
It's not all about resolution. Even the D200 (as I've recently had the joy of finding out) will push the very limits of today's glass...
I don't see why the 5D is off the table... In real world terms (not test charts) it comes pretty darn close to the 1Ds... The D2X and the 5D also come very close to one another in pure resolution terms.
Yes, larger sensors have less issues with noise, however, Canon has also done an incredible job of noise processing in their cameras. Nikon on the other hand has done a better job at keeping chroma noise down.
Keep in mind that for the bit of jump in resolution the 5D enjoys over the 20/30D, the 30D has near equal amounts of noise as the 5D, despite it being a cropped sensor.
I think this is just different terms of how each manufacturer has engineered their cameras, not a pure "larger sensor = less noise" issue, though in theory of course, this is true.
I like Nikkor DX sharpness. And I prefer to have my 70-200 range, not 105-300 range(DX). I sometimes shoot fashion show, and when the model getting close to you, the 70 act as 105mm didn't give enough space to capture even the 3/4 body. While on my side a fellow photographer using 5D + 70-200 still enjoy shooting.
This new body 99% isn't FF. But its nice to have choice for FF body. I've read the interview with Nikon, that said FF body is too expensive. Well, with D200 kind of body maybe the cost can be cut for more acceptable price (2000-2500)
Pinky Mirror Nikonians@Jakarta,Indonesia-- it's near Bali, if you don't know where it is
#118. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 0
Well, I have to agree with most poeple here. Those that complain about not being able to produce the D200/70s/50, etc fast enough. So why release a new model.
Here's my theory. I read somewhere, in a publication, that someone at Nikon, possibly the CEO, I don't remember, said that in two years time, the D50 will drop to about ~$300. So, witht he announcement of this new model, that phases the D50 out. They will keep the D70s, but it will be the entry-level DSLR. The D80/90/894523467/whatever will be the current D70s' successor and then up the line is the D200. I can't see them phasing out bot the D70s and the D50. Canon has three prosumer models. I don't think Nikon would be stupid to have just two. But, thisis Nikon we're talking about.
#119. "Rumored Name D20?" In response to Reply # 0
Some other forums, has rumored the new Nikon to be named as D20. Which does not sound like how Nikon would name a new product that is expected to sit between the D70 and D200 range. But this also leaves a question, why in 20 days? D20? could it be the misisng link (clue)...
#120. "RE: Rumored Name D20?" In response to Reply # 119
I would be very surprised and disappointed too if this were a lesser model than the D50, but it if is, I'll just wait a little longer. As usual, no matter how good the camera specs are or the camera turns out to be, I'm sure there will be some blasting it from day one just like with the D200 or any other new model.
#121. "RE: Rumored Name D20?" In response to Reply # 119
It's a petty safe bet that it won't be the called the D20 and it is also a pretty safe bet that they will not keep the D70s and phase out the D50.
D20 first. Well, it just isn't credible that Nikon is going to compete with Canon's 20D with a product called the D20. It just isn't going to happen....
And, as to the D50/D70s issue, Nikon recognise that they need at least 4 different types of DSLR body:
- Entry-level. This is currently the D50. Nikon absolutely will not phase out the D50 and replace it by keeping the D70s. The D50 is different is some critical ways. It defaults to a more saturated colour space (helps beginners take brighter shots straight out of the camera), uses an SD card (important because these users are often swtiching up from a compact to a DSLR and already have cards) and it is smaler/lighter. Of course, there are some features deliberately left out of the D50 (compared to the D70s) but those mentioned above are not fetaures stripped out, they are fetaures deliberately put there for entry-level DSLR users. For volume, Nikon needs to bring out a cheaper version of the D50, not a bigger D70 type camera.
- Enthusiast. Was the D70/D70s, now will be the D80 (or close). This is aimed directly at enthusiasts and not entry-level, see the wording on Nikon's teaser.
- Semi-pro. Nikon 200. Naturally this is tempting some real pros, but it is aimed at the semi-pro (or enthusiast with deep pockets and gadget freaks. Most of us (enthusiasts) wont need more than the D80 offers
- Pro. D2X etc. Obviously Nikon may feel the need to create multiple bodies in this space (full-frame, perhaps - one day), but Pro is Pro.
Nikon biggest marketing problem is to avoid blurring the boundaries between these categories. They don't want to, they can't afford to and anything else would be plain dumb. Of course, the pace of change means that the new D80 may be closer to the D200 than we had hoped. But then, there'll be a new D200 along soon enough. It may even be next year.
#122. "RE: Rumored Name D20?" In response to Reply # 121
I agree with you on this almost completly, the only thing is i belive that the Entry-level and Enthusiast are on the same area i.e. D50,D70,D70s,D80?,D90? are on one level D100,D200,D300? are on the next level, D1,D2,D3? are on the pro level
and yes i would realy like to see the FF Digital camrea come out but IF it ever does i fully exect it to be on the Pro Level, where there would be two camreas on the Pro level On with DX for the sports shooters so they get that extra range, the other for PJ and everything else so it goes back to "normal" 85/1.4 is still an 85/1.4
#123. "IS THIS THE NEW D- - -?" In response to Reply # 122
San Diego, US
I have been busy shooting with the good weather and travel. I don't even have time to read the paper anymore, but now I have craweled out from behind my camera, and we find a new digital body!
We all agree it is only getting better...like the D50 low noise,weight and price, I would assume this body would be in the same vein. Either from electronic noise reduction, or a tweek on the sensor, it will be better and less money.
Would a D200 user feel bad if it compaired to his more expensive camera...no...then buy it!!
I could use a light extra body so I don't have to change lenes as often. Maybe a new VR lens with the body would be nice also.
The picture is AVP Champion player Matt Fuerbringer in June on a dark morning with little light...D200 ISO 800 1/2500 sec F3.5 Hermosa Beach Calif.
#124. "RE: Rumored Name D20?" In response to Reply # 122
I also agree that naming of the models should flow on, 1digit are for the pros models, 2digits are for the consumer, and 3digitls for the prosumer/semi-pros. However, you will never know what Nikon is up to, afterall didnt they also give everyone a surprise with some of the features on the D200 and price.
Having the D20 name, will make it all more confusing (especially if it was to compete with Canon). But having a small degree in marketing, the 20 days to announce does not sound like the usual Nikon campiagn, and the strange things is; it kind of caught everyone by surprise with this ploy, as there is surprising no or little leaked information this time around (well not as strong as the D200 chatter). Most had expected the announcement was due to be around September. Could it just be a last minute campiagn to hold off user from considering Sony's A100. And, my understanding is why in 20 days? Not in 30 days... Hmmm. Or 80 days for the matter of fact if reffering to the D80. Whatever it is, I certainly believe it will be a 2digit series.
I am enjoying this, from a marketing perspective how Nikon will tackle the new Sony A100, let along the eyeing them as a competitor, and I no doubt see that Sony is somewhat a threat to most of the players, including Canon. If one was to consider what they did with the Gaming market, from nil to market leader within a short period (and Microsoft's Xbox from nil to second) and changing the industry and killing of the other established names like Atari, 3DO, and not mention mega Sega.
I wonder how Sony will play the game on the DSLR market. Certainly, taking over KM was a brilliant idea, making them just position 3 from a early start. And this round of battle from Nikon could also just be a counter measure to hold it's prized position.
Some of my best shots were from my old D100, it had great color,... even if it was slow. I had a pro show me a poster that was blown up to 4x30 ft from his D100 six mega pixel camera, and it was great. The D70s was even better than the D100 and should not be taken lightly.
I still sold the D100 while I could, rather than give it to my daughter as I can get the D70s used for a similar price and it is better.
Yes, indeed the D70 at 6MP is still superb, and I regularly print images into post size close to 1 metre in size using the 6MP RAW (and compressed!), with great results. It may lose some details here and there, but if you have some photoshop know, and have an good photograhic skills - the results will just as good as many of the pros gear. I am not saying the pro gears is no-good, it in fact it is only good if you know how to use the camera properly. So, in my expereinces, the D70 quality excels most average-users requirements - how many people print upto 1 metre let alone 8x6? I guess not many.
And yes, I agree with many that importance is in the lens. If you get a good to high qality lens, you will notice the difference.
Thou, I have since sold my D70(s), and upgraded to the D200 (and not due to the 10MP, but the user-controls and speed as the main factor). And, I do miss the simplities of the D70. I am still learning to use the D200 properly, and it is not the easiest of camera to master, just far too many features and complications (which I will never use!).
I for one, need to get the final quality results for my clients which matters most and I have surpised many that I used a D70. Afterall, the client is not interested in the data or technics I captured the images. They just want the image they can see!
Photography is about the art, creativity and skills. Not the gear!
>I am not >saying the pro gears is no-good, it in fact it is only good >if you know how to use the camera properly. > > > Afterall, the client is not interested in the >data or technics I captured the images. They just want the >image they can see! > >Photography is about the art, creativity and skills. Not the >gear! > >Cheers >Tom
I completely agree with you on that one Tom. The new DSLR is certainly cause for excitement, but in the end, we should look at what it has to offer, see if it will help us take substantially better pictures, and then consider if it's worth an upgrade. If I'll be buying it just to say that I'm the first on my block to have the new DSLR, there is something wrong with my concept of photography.
What would trigger the bells in my head would be the CAM1000 AF and better body sealing. That, and availability at the stores would be nice.
In my years of taking pictures, I've only had a handful ask what gear I use, and the few who do, and to whom I answer "I use a Nikon D2h and D2x", don't ask any further, because they don't know those camera models. It's really the image that you capture that will satisfy them, not just the gear. I know a few in my country who have the top of the line DSLRs but don't know a thing about exposure - they just shoot in program mode. But they still get a lot of clients - oh well. Must be the marketing skills.
john aguas a very happy nikonian in the Philippines
john aguas a very happy nikonian in the Philippines
#131. "RE: Is this the "D80"?" In response to Reply # 127
Indeed it is. I can understand the effect the new announcement has on many D70s owners and those about to buy, but a new camera is useless unless one masters or at least excels in the art of photography first.
Use up all the shutter count on your D70s mastering photography, and I'm sure the photos can be very compelling.
Then think big, what's a D80 for someone who has the skills ? Go for the D2Xs or whatever the latest model later, at least it is well-deserved for someone who has taken the effort to master the skills. And even the master will still respect the lower camera models.
Also, a D70s with the best lenses like the 17-35 f2.8, etc. is still better than a D200 with stock lens in terms of quality. And these lenses cost more than a D80 or even a D200.
"The question is not what you look at but what you see." - Henry David Thoreau
"There is no camera that instinctively recognizes the decisive moment." - Bryan Peterson
To cover a few points: I am a D50 user who does not have a disposable income, but loves to take pictures. Not professional by any stretch of the imagination. Nikon slr user for 15+ years, then went digital with a P&S but longed for the SLR. D50 fit perfect. Inexpensive and still use my old lenses. BTW, I do use M, S, A and P only on my D50.
My take on the new body,,,, in todays paper, you can have the D70s body only for $699. Is it me or has that price come down considerably in the last 6+ months. The D70/70s as been around a while. Since then a "dumbed down" version has come about in the D50 and a much bigger upgrade version has come in the form of the D200.
Looking at the current teaser ad for the new body the biggest thing that stands out is affordable. But affordable to who?
I'm guessing its a "dumbed down" version of the D200. $699 body price vs $1699 body price (D70s vs D200) is a VERY wide gap. I don't know all the differences between the D70s and the D200, but I'm guessing the new body will have a 2" or 2.5" monitor, maybe just a 2" like the D50, but bigger than the D70, but maybe 200,000mp instead of the current 130,000mp. Maybe the larger viewfinder and more FPS (4 or 5 instead of 3). Body size will probably be smaller than the D200, but not much. Because of the 10.2MP it will be CF and not SD. ISO will most likely start at 100 rather than the D70s' 200 and have a high speed USB connection rather than the D70s' 1.1.
Nikon released the D70/D70s at 6.1mp then the little brother D50 at 6.1mp. Now they have the 200 at 10.2mp and now it needs the little brother at 10.2mp. This is what I think will be next.
Hopefully they'll also announce the 70-300mm VR as well, which I have heard is supposed to come out in the fall. This might be a lens I would get, but I'm really really wanting the 70-200 f/2.8 VR with a 1.4TC which is what I'm leaning towards. Though price on the 70-300mm VR will be watched closely and will make the final difference.
If this new body is the little brother of the D200, this is something I would consider upgrading to next. The D200 might be to much for me (especially price wise) and the D50 is to similar to the D70s. _____________________________ My D50 Gallery: http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e234/handicap18/
I agree with you on the viewfinder completely. It will disappointing to me if they don't improve on what is on the D70S, but I can't say for sure that would stop me from buying one if the camera is priced right. Playing around with the D70s in the store one day, I didn't think the viewfinder was so bad, but when I compared it to my N80 (which isn't the biggest, brightest around either), and there is a world of difference. I also looked at the small Pentax DSLR, and I think it's finder is quite a bit better than the Nikon's, which makes little sense.
I waited til the D70S came out and bought the D70 CHEAP. For the minute viewfinder difference between the 2 plus the firmware upgrade, it wasn't worth the extra $$$ plus the unknown length of wait for the 'S'. I also have a N80 that I also love - and yes it does have a better viewfinder - but...it's film and at 24-36 shots per roll, can get real expensive - FAST.
I'm not going to be the first in the neighborhood to own the new, assumed to be mega control D??. Heck, the D70 and N80 still have controls that I never have had a use for (some make me wonder why they even exist).
To be the first on the block with the most gadgets, mega pixels, full frame, etc, etc, etc is beyond the point of ridiculousness. It's almost like it was buying a car in the '60s.
Dave W D70,D70S/ SB600, 55mm 1.8, 24-120 Nikkor, 12-24 Tokina, 75-300 Nikkor + other "stuff"
The D70s got cheaper a little while ago, now it is hard to find. That makes it the candidate for replacement. It's also the oldest of the D50/D70s/D200 lineup.
It makes no marketing sense to produce a $1300 camera right next to a $1600 camera. The D70s pricepoint before the markdown is probably what they are looking for.
I think logic dictates that they will be sticking some D200 features into a D70s body. Pixels are still a big selling point in the market, and other manufacturers are coming out with 8-10mp all over the place. Nikon is feeeling the pressure to keep up.
If they make this new model with the D200 sensor and the ability to meter manual lenses, I would strongly consider it, especially for under $1000. And I really think this camera will be under $1000.
It's not an optical illusion. It just looks like one.
It's not an optical illusion. It just looks like one.
#140. "I hope the new Nikon has CF support." In response to Reply # 135
Well, before the D200, there was a bit of a gap (not factoring the D100). The price jump from the D70 to a D2h/D2x was just far too great, and Nikon was clearly missing a mid-range. The D100 was an alternative choice, but the I found the D70 was considerably superior (becuase of it was a much newer model) and at a lower price.
I enjoyed the D70, and I hear the D50 image is just as good or better. One, let down (well for me anyway) is the the SD support. I have built up a number of Compact Flash cards, and so the D50 was not suited as a backup camera. Otherwise, it would also be another camera to my collection. Now, I am eyeing on a second D200 or may be the new Nikon, but one thing that will put some weight in my consideration is CF support.